Which should have first priority: The woman, the fertilized egg, or the fetus?

[Lakhota]

Alabama’s Abortion Bill Is Great News For White Supremacists

The strict abortion bill that passed the Ala. Senate represents a victory in their effort to propagate the “white race.”

I agree!

 

[BWK]

Anti-choice fanatics can't be taken seriously until they start providing more resources to protect and care for children - AFTER THEY ARE BORN. They also need to be more sympathetic to the mental/physical/financial health and well-being of women who are faced with such a heartbreaking choice. Anti-choice fanatics act like pregnant women are just expendable hosts - birthing pods. Pregnant women come first.

This entire forum already knows that there is not enough that any conservative or group of conservatives can do for children AFTER they are born that will make any of you proabort fucktardz care more for them BEFORE they are born.

Your red herring is herby dismissed.

Who is they again?
Just to be clear, "Life" as explained in the dictionary is a "human being". A fetus without a developed brain is not a developed "hhuman uman being". By your account "Life begins at conception", is saying we are dealing with a fully developed being right? Is that what you are saying?

How fascists can you be?

A fully functioning brain is not a requirement for personhood.

According to who? You? And you are?

Neither is it a requirement for a human being to be recognized as one.

Then what are we debating then? It's up in the air for anyone to decide right? So who are you to decide? Exactly, nobody! So let the woman carrying the fetus decide what she wants for her body. These pro-lifers come on here and make the most ridiculous, factless, claims about abortion, and haven't a clue of what they are talking about.

Especially given the prognosis of the vast majority of children in the womb.

"Children in the womb"? There's a fully developed child in there?

 

[Cecilie1200]

If men want to control women's reproductive rights - then women should be able to control men's reproductive rights.

There you go with the cisnormative, transphobic hate speech again.

 

[BWK]

Anti-choice fanatics can't be taken seriously until they start providing more resources to protect and care for children - AFTER THEY ARE BORN. They also need to be more sympathetic to the mental/physical/financial health and well-being of women who are faced with such a heartbreaking choice. Anti-choice fanatics act like pregnant women are just expendable hosts - birthing pods. Pregnant women come first.

This entire forum already knows that there is not enough that any conservative or group of conservatives can do for children AFTER they are born that will make any of you proabort fucktardz care more for them BEFORE they are born.

Your red herring is herby dismissed.

Who is they again?
Just to be clear, "Life" as explained in the dictionary is a "human being". A fetus without a developed brain is not a developed "hhuman uman being". By your account "Life begins at conception", is saying we are dealing with a fully developed being right? Is that what you are saying?

How fascists can you be?

A fully functioning brain is not a requirement for personhood.

And who is talking about a fully functioning brain? I'm talking about a fully developed brain? You know, the one that recognizes feelings and emotions?

Neither is it a requirement for a human being to be recognized as one.

Especially given the prognosis of the vast majority of children in the womb.

You aren't getting the argument I'm afraid. "Children in the womb"? According to who? The fetus becomes a child when?

I suggest you google the personhood status of children with underdeveloped brains (anencephalia]

While you are at it. You might google fetal HOMICIDE laws, too.

I've read that and many articles beyond that one. And? What is your point? Call it human, a child, whatever your philosophical mind tells you to call it. But in science, the brain, in whatever you want to call it, has not developed to prove the fetus is experiencing something that humans/persons/children who are actually born, experience. That said, you can label the fetus any way you like, and the science continues to tell us that an undeveloped brain in a developing fetus doesn't go through the same after birth experiences most of us feel. And that scientific fact has not been rebutted. Until it does, all you have are your own philosophical/religious views.

 

[2aguy]

Alabama is just the latest Republican attack on women's reproductive freedom and rights.

Every Senate Vote For Alabama’s Abortion Ban Was From A White Man

The Alabama state Senate just passed the country’s strictest abortion ban, which criminalizes nearly all abortions including in cases of rape and incest.

THE PUNISHERS: AL. ABORTION BANNED BY 25 WHITE GUYS

Women have first priority!

Let me fix you post....

This bill outlaws the murder of babies, even if the baby is created in an act of rape or incest...which means it is innocent of any wrong doing, and is now protected from the death penalty due to the crimes of the man....

 

[BWK]

This is a sincere poll. I would appreciate honest answers. If you're willing, I would also appreciate your reasons. I will not criticize your choice. I would just honestly like to know where USMB posters stand on this issue.

NOTE: I know there are many possible variables, but this poll assumes "typical" circumstances. In other words, this is a superficial poll that assumes "normal/average" circumstances - meaning no rape, incest, health, deformity, financial, or other extenuating issues.

This is a surprisingly difficult question for those who want to have an honest discussion.

Giving legal rights to children is a way fraught with unintended consequences that only an anarchist could love.

However the founding principles of this country, found in the Declaration of Independence, declare that we, as Americans have a n unalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

A unviable fetus is a human child waiting to be born, unless you can provide evidence that fetuses sometimes come out as something other than human children.

Still Democracy requires compromise and from a legal perspective, though immoral, the Mother has a greater right to decide the fate of her unviable fetus.

However, once that human child is viable the State has a right and a legal responsibility to protect the right of that unborn child to have life.

Do we not have a right to question WHY the ever moving target of viability is the deciding point?

Sure you do. Great question.

I'm thinking legally, not morally.

Until the unborn child is viable on its own, it's not a separate entity from the Mother.

Once viable, although still dependant on the Mother, the child could survive as a separate entity from the Mother.

That distinction is what makes viability a natural dividing line, from a legal perspective.

So according to you, the ability to live separately is (should be) the legal diving line for which human beings are persons and which ones are not?

Let's be clear.

Is that what you are saying?

I am a born again Christian that believes that abortion, as the killing of unborn children, is morally wrong.

So according to God's law, viability is not an issue and abortion is sin. God will judge that sin at the great white throne of judgement.

However, we live in the world. A world in which God allows any of us to reject his will and choose to serve their own selfish will (and sin). It's not my job to judge (that's God's job) and I must not challenge God's sovereignty by trying to take away the ability for mankind to sin.

I see abortion in this light. I hate it and I grieve for the innocents killed, but God has allowed some to choose to sin by killing their unborn children.

I didn't come up with the viability standard, Harry Blackmun came up with it in Roe vs Wade. It makes sense to me as a worldly (not a Godly) standard. Imagine the unintended consequences of granting legal standing to children, separate (independent) from their parents?

Because of the symbiotic relationship between mother and unborn child, I don't see how we force a woman to nurture a non viable unborn child, which could not survive outside her womb. Once the unborn child could survive outside the womb, I would argue legally it has a right to be born.

Wait a minute here chief. You said that God's law, that God made, was that abortion was a sin, yet "God allowed some to choose to sin by killing their unborn children?" Huh? You just admitted that God was talking out of both sides of God's mouth. Boss, when a God like that talks out of mouth sides of he, she, its, mouth, I think it's past time you need to be looking for another God.

 

[Natural Citizen]

What if the woman decides it is one?

The obstetrician is still treating two patients irrelevant of whether one patient chooses to kill the other patient.

 

[BWK]

Alabama is just the latest Republican attack on women's reproductive freedom and rights.

Every Senate Vote For Alabama’s Abortion Ban Was From A White Man

The Alabama state Senate just passed the country’s strictest abortion ban, which criminalizes nearly all abortions including in cases of rape and incest.

THE PUNISHERS: AL. ABORTION BANNED BY 25 WHITE GUYS

Women have first priority!

Let me fix you post....

This bill outlaws the murder of babies, even if the baby is created in an act of rape or incest...which means it is innocent of any wrong doing, and is now protected from the death penalty due to the crimes of the man....

If it isn't a fully developed human being with a fully developed brain, scientifically, how is it murder?

 

[BWK]

What if the woman decides it is one?

The obstetrician is still treating two patients irrelevant of whether one patient chooses to kill the other patient.

So, the doctor is calling it a patient, while science is calling it a fetus that does not have all the development organs to call it a fully developed human being, with a fully developed brain. And that's on the doctor, not the actual patient who has already been born, with a developed brain who responds to stimulus. That is the patient that counts as it pertains to Biological science. Get it?

In other words, you are making a case for a so called patient that is undeveloped, is not conscious, and does not respond to stimuli based on the fetus/patients undeveloped brain, and give it priority over the patient that does. That's about as dumb and insensitive of a case that you could possibly come up with. I mean, you are trying to take away 100%, the actual born patients rights to protect that born patient, over the undeveloped one that feels nothing. Boss, that is total insanity.

 

[Desperado]

If men want to control women's reproductive rights - then women should be able to control men's reproductive rights.

They do when they say no

 

[Lakhota]

Abortions should remain legal, safe - and accessible for women! Like V-iagra, penis pumps and other erectile dysfunction devices and medications for men. What if women controlled what men have access to?

 

[sparky]

What if women controlled what men have access to?

well i'd probably be dull & listless ....which the dog might appreciate

~S~

 

[BWK]

Abortions should remain legal, safe - and accessible for women! Like V-iagra, penis pumps and other erectile dysfunction devices and medications for men. What if women controlled what men have access to?

They don't want to hear about that.

 

[Lakhota]

In Economic Terms, Alabama Was Already A Terrible Place For Women

The extreme abortion bill that passed the state Senate on Tuesday is just the latest troubling development.

THE WORST PLACE IN AMERICA TO BE A WOMAN

Alabama must be very proud to be the worst place in America for women.

 

[Lakhota]

The Alabama governor has now signed the horrendous and unconscionable abortion bill. Unbelievable!

 

[buttercup]

What if the woman decides it is one?

The obstetrician is still treating two patients irrelevant of whether one patient chooses to kill the other patient.

So, the doctor is calling it a patient, while science is calling it a fetus that does not have all the development organs to call it a fully developed human being, with a fully developed brain. And that's on the doctor, not the actual patient who has already been born, with a developed brain who responds to stimulus. That is the patient that counts as it pertains to Biological science. Get it?

In other words, you are making a case for a so called patient that is undeveloped, is not conscious, and does not respond to stimuli based on the fetus/patients undeveloped brain, and give it priority over the patient that does. That's about as dumb and insensitive of a case that you could possibly come up with. I mean, you are trying to take away 100%, the actual born patients rights to protect that born patient, over the undeveloped one that feels nothing. Boss, that is total insanity.

If you think you have science on your side you are flatly wrong. Scientifically, the preborn baby is a human being, whether you like it or not.... it’s simply in a different stage of life. Yes the preborn is still developing, but so is a newborn, and a child, and a teenager. We are human beings from the moment we come into existence until the moment we die. You’ve just believed the lies promoted by those who are making a lot of money in the business of killing.

 

[Lakhota]

If men could get pregnant - abortions would be legal at Walmart.

 

[Mr Natural]

If men could get pregnant - abortions would be legal at Walmart.

It’d be like getting a haircut.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Israel’s abortion law now among world’s most liberal

Despite its conservative leanings, government approves free pregnancy termination for nearly all women, and it barely causes a ripple

Israel, a nation with a forceful religious lobby and a conservative prime minister, is poised to offer its female citizens some of the most liberal abortion coverage in the world.

More: Israel’s abortion law now among world’s most liberal

Israel seems to be leading the world on abortion. Great for women's rights.

Even though Israel is the homeland for Jews, the majority of Jews there are secular and do not actually practice Judaism.

This leads to some interesting contradictions.

The Rabbis agree that abortion is prohibited by Jewish religious law. Still, since Israel is a democracy where most of the residents of don't practice Judaism, the lack of hue and cry over abortion rights is hardly surprising.

And your point is...? American Christians worship Israel.

No, it just looks that way to anyone who rabidly hates Jews and anything related to them.

Gawd you're stupid

 

[SassyIrishLass]

If men could get pregnant - abortions would be legal at Walmart.

I'm surprised you idiot loons are not all for that...oh wait.

Don't breed LaCooCoo.....society can't support another one as stupid as you are