Which should have first priority: The woman, the fertilized egg, or the fetus?

[Lakhota]

It’s Official: Alabama Gov. Kay Ivey Signs Nation’s Strictest Abortion Bill

Unbelievable!

 

[BWK]

What if the woman decides it is one?

The obstetrician is still treating two patients irrelevant of whether one patient chooses to kill the other patient.

So, the doctor is calling it a patient, while science is calling it a fetus that does not have all the development organs to call it a fully developed human being, with a fully developed brain. And that's on the doctor, not the actual patient who has already been born, with a developed brain who responds to stimulus. That is the patient that counts as it pertains to Biological science. Get it?

In other words, you are making a case for a so called patient that is undeveloped, is not conscious, and does not respond to stimuli based on the fetus/patients undeveloped brain, and give it priority over the patient that does. That's about as dumb and insensitive of a case that you could possibly come up with. I mean, you are trying to take away 100%, the actual born patients rights to protect that born patient, over the undeveloped one that feels nothing. Boss, that is total insanity.

If you think you have science on your side you are flatly wrong. Scientifically, the preborn baby is a human being, whether you like it or not.... it’s simply in a different stage of life. Yes the preborn is still developing, but so is a newborn, and a child, and a teenager. We are human beings from the moment we come into existence until the moment we die. You’ve just believed the lies promoted by those who are making a lot of money in the business of killing.

You are speaking directly to emotions and feelings. You aren't arguing your case through the lens of scientific analysis or logical reasoning. Being a human being, is not being a fully developed human being in the womb. Scientifically, it is a developing fetus with no developed brain, and the only risk taker is the female carrying that fetus. Whether you like it or not.

And other "human beings making a lot of money in the business of killing"? Really? Explain that logically from a scientific approach how it is killing a fully developed human being? Otherwise, I have no idea what it is they are killing?

Let's ask it like this; was the chicken killed in the egg, or was the yoke from the chicken egg killed before you bought it? Or maybe it was never killed at all? Maybe it was just prevented from developing, by putting it at a temperature that stopped development, seeing that it was never a fully developed chicken?

Biologically speaking, it is very easy to understand, that to stop a developing fetus, isn't much different than stopping a developing yoke turn into a chicken. Did either one have the developed brain to know the difference? Biologically speaking, science says no. So, you will need to clarify this "killing" claim of yours.

 

[Cecilie1200]

If men could get pregnant - abortions would be legal at Walmart.

May I direct you to this?

Progressive Gender Theory: Just Wanted To Share This

But if you don't have a uterus then you shouldn't be giving your opinion on women's rights. No uterus, no opinion. That's the motto. We're tired of men making decisions about women's bodies.

But there is no such thing as a woman's body. Transwomen are women, too. A transwoman is just a much a woman as any other woman. There is absolutely no difference between the two and to suggest otherwise is the height of bigotry.

But anti-abortion laws are sexist because they specifically target women, who are the ones having babies. If men could have babies, abortion would be completely legal everywhere.

But men can have babies. And women can be fathers. And fathers can be mothers. And mothers can be men. And men can be women. And women can be men who are mothers.

So are you now, definitively, telling us that there's an inherent difference between men and women? And are you at all concerned that your fellow leftists will string you up for such subversive, cisnormative, transphobic language?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Israel’s abortion law now among world’s most liberal

Despite its conservative leanings, government approves free pregnancy termination for nearly all women, and it barely causes a ripple

Israel, a nation with a forceful religious lobby and a conservative prime minister, is poised to offer its female citizens some of the most liberal abortion coverage in the world.

More: Israel’s abortion law now among world’s most liberal

Israel seems to be leading the world on abortion. Great for women's rights.

Even though Israel is the homeland for Jews, the majority of Jews there are secular and do not actually practice Judaism.

This leads to some interesting contradictions.

The Rabbis agree that abortion is prohibited by Jewish religious law. Still, since Israel is a democracy where most of the residents of don't practice Judaism, the lack of hue and cry over abortion rights is hardly surprising.

And your point is...? American Christians worship Israel.

No, it just looks that way to anyone who rabidly hates Jews and anything related to them.

Gawd you're stupid

Pardon me?

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Israel’s abortion law now among world’s most liberal

Despite its conservative leanings, government approves free pregnancy termination for nearly all women, and it barely causes a ripple

Israel, a nation with a forceful religious lobby and a conservative prime minister, is poised to offer its female citizens some of the most liberal abortion coverage in the world.

More: Israel’s abortion law now among world’s most liberal

Israel seems to be leading the world on abortion. Great for women's rights.

Even though Israel is the homeland for Jews, the majority of Jews there are secular and do not actually practice Judaism.

This leads to some interesting contradictions.

The Rabbis agree that abortion is prohibited by Jewish religious law. Still, since Israel is a democracy where most of the residents of don't practice Judaism, the lack of hue and cry over abortion rights is hardly surprising.

And your point is...? American Christians worship Israel.

No, it just looks that way to anyone who rabidly hates Jews and anything related to them.

Gawd you're stupid

Pardon me?

I was talking to that loon Squawking Chicken

 

[Mr Natural]

It’s Official: Alabama Gov. Kay Ivey Signs Nation’s Strictest Abortion Bill

Unbelievable!

Is Alabama now in contention with Mississippi for being the most backward state in the country?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Even though Israel is the homeland for Jews, the majority of Jews there are secular and do not actually practice Judaism.

This leads to some interesting contradictions.

The Rabbis agree that abortion is prohibited by Jewish religious law. Still, since Israel is a democracy where most of the residents of don't practice Judaism, the lack of hue and cry over abortion rights is hardly surprising.

And your point is...? American Christians worship Israel.

No, it just looks that way to anyone who rabidly hates Jews and anything related to them.

Gawd you're stupid

Pardon me?

I was talking to that loon Squawking Chicken

Ah. Carry on.

 

[Cecilie1200]

It’s Official: Alabama Gov. Kay Ivey Signs Nation’s Strictest Abortion Bill

Unbelievable!

Is Alabama now in contention with Mississippi for being the most backward state in the country?

Is anyone looking for you to judge the competition? You're the resident expert on being backward.

 

[DJT for Life]

To answer your original question.

What should come first is the answer to this question. "When does Life Begin/"

Don't believe the Supreme Court has ever established that.

Once life begins...Due Process begins.

I believe that's why all these states are going to Heartbeat Laws. They are going to force SCOTUS to
rule on that.

Ruling that life begins with a Heartbeat wouldn't automatically prevent a woman from getting an abortion,
but she couldn't just show up at a clinic, she would first have to go to court and the State would have to
provide an attorney to speak on behalf of the unborn citizen.

 

[Likkmee]

That all depends what you're involved in the conflict over.
If it goes on film the cumshot fills the bank,.

 

[Andylusion]

This is a sincere poll. I would appreciate honest answers. If you're willing, I would also appreciate your reasons. I will not criticize your choice. I would just honestly like to know where USMB posters stand on this issue.

NOTE: I know there are many possible variables, but this poll assumes "typical" circumstances. In other words, this is a superficial poll that assumes "normal/average" circumstances - meaning no rape, incest, health, deformity, financial, or other extenuating issues.

Case by case basis. I'd have to know the circumstances in each individual case.

Saying normal....

Implies that there is no danger to the mother, nor to the infant.

In which case, there is no 'priority'.

In any other case, you would not put a priority on one person over another, would you? You would never say "Ok this guys life, is a priority over that girls life". Right? You would never do that.

So you have two lives. The life of the mother, and the life of the baby. Why would I prioritize one life over another in a "normal" situation, where no one's life is in danger?

Now in times gone past, the moral values of the culture, would prioritize other's over oneself. So in a moral society, a mother would instinctively prioritize the life of the baby, over herself.

Even a chicken will cover their young to protect them from a fire, killing the hen, to protect the chicks.

However, in our society, we kill our young, even when their is no danger at all to the mother.

Obviously this is a terrible moral crash.

 

[NoVote]

This is a faulty poll. In most circumstances, I would say the fetus. But when is it a fetus? 1 day, 6 weeks, heart beat? Any time up to a detectable heartbeat, it's a blob and up to the mother, ater the heart beats, it's a person.

The question of rape or incest is just plain bogus. If raped, the hospital will do a D&C and scrape it out, or give a pill. In the case of incest, virtually anyone can get a pill to end it.

To get an abortion cause the woman did nothing is just too bad, live with it.

 

[buttercup]

What if the woman decides it is one?

The obstetrician is still treating two patients irrelevant of whether one patient chooses to kill the other patient.

So, the doctor is calling it a patient, while science is calling it a fetus that does not have all the development organs to call it a fully developed human being, with a fully developed brain. And that's on the doctor, not the actual patient who has already been born, with a developed brain who responds to stimulus. That is the patient that counts as it pertains to Biological science. Get it?

In other words, you are making a case for a so called patient that is undeveloped, is not conscious, and does not respond to stimuli based on the fetus/patients undeveloped brain, and give it priority over the patient that does. That's about as dumb and insensitive of a case that you could possibly come up with. I mean, you are trying to take away 100%, the actual born patients rights to protect that born patient, over the undeveloped one that feels nothing. Boss, that is total insanity.

If you think you have science on your side you are flatly wrong. Scientifically, the preborn baby is a human being, whether you like it or not.... it’s simply in a different stage of life. Yes the preborn is still developing, but so is a newborn, and a child, and a teenager. We are human beings from the moment we come into existence until the moment we die. You’ve just believed the lies promoted by those who are making a lot of money in the business of killing.

You are speaking directly to emotions and feelings. You aren't arguing your case through the lens of scientific analysis or logical reasoning. Being a human being, is not being a fully developed human being in the womb. Scientifically, it is a developing fetus with no developed brain, and the only risk taker is the female carrying that fetus. Whether you like it or not.

And other "human beings making a lot of money in the business of killing"? Really? Explain that logically from a scientific approach how it is killing a fully developed human being? Otherwise, I have no idea what it is they are killing?

Let's ask it like this; was the chicken killed in the egg, or was the yoke from the chicken egg killed before you bought it? Or maybe it was never killed at all? Maybe it was just prevented from developing, by putting it at a temperature that stopped development, seeing that it was never a fully developed chicken?

Biologically speaking, it is very easy to understand, that to stop a developing fetus, isn't much different than stopping a developing yoke turn into a chicken. Did either one have the developed brain to know the difference? Biologically speaking, science says no. So, you will need to clarify this "killing" claim of yours.

Sorry, but from a scientific standpoint, the preborn is a human being, a member of the human species, that has nothing to do with emotion, it's a undeniable scientific fact. Here are a few quotes for you:


“….it is scientifically correct to say that human life begins at conception.”

Dr. Micheline Matthews-Roth, Harvard Medical School: Quoted by Public Affairs Council

*********

“Landrum B. Shettles, M.D., P.h.D. was first scientist to succeed at in vitro fertilization:

“The zygote is human life….there is one fact that no one can deny; Human beings begin at conception.”

From Landrum B. Shettles “Rites of Life: The Scientific Evidence for Life Before Birth” Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1983 p 40

*********

“Fertilization is the process by which male and female haploid gametes (sperm and egg) unite to produce a genetically distinct individual.”

Signorelli et al., Kinases, phosphatases and proteases during sperm capacitation, CELL TISSUE RES. 349(3):765 (Mar. 20, 2012)

*********

National Institutes of Health, Medline Plus Merriam-Webster Medical Dictionary (2013), http://www.merriamwebster.com/...

The government’s own definition attests to the fact that life begins at fertilization. According to the National Institutes of Health, “fertilization” is the process of union of two gametes (i.e., ovum and sperm) “whereby the somatic chromosome number is restored and the development of a new individual is initiated.”

Steven Ertelt “Undisputed Scientific Fact: Human Life Begins at Conception, or Fertilization” 11/18/13

*********

“It is the penetration of the ovum by a sperm and the resulting mingling of nuclear material each brings to the union that constitutes the initiation of the life of a new individual.”

Clark Edward and Corliss Patten’s Human Embryology, McGraw – Hill Inc., 30

*********


Keith L. Moore, Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology, 7th edition. Philadelphia, PA: Saunders, 2008. p. 2.
“[The zygote], formed by the union of an oocyte and a sperm, is the beginning of a new human being.”

*********

“The first cell of a new and unique human life begins existence at the moment of conception (fertilization) when one living sperm from the father joins with one living ovum from the mother. It is in this manner that human life passes from one generation to another. Given the appropriate environment and genetic composition, the single cell subsequently gives rise to trillions of specialized and integrated cells that compose the structures and functions of each individual human body. Every human being alive today and, as far as is known scientifically, every human being that ever existed, began his or her unique existence in this manner, i.e., as one cell. If this first cell or any subsequent configuration of cells perishes, the individual dies, ceasing to exist in matter as a living being. There are no known exceptions to this rule in the field of human biology.”

James Bopp, ed., Human Life and Health Care Ethics, vol. 2 (Frederick, MD: University Publications of America, 1985)

*********

Rand McNally, Atlas of the Body (New York: Rand McNally, 1980) 139, 144
“In fusing together, the male and female gametes produce a fertilized single cell, the zygote, which is the start of a new individual.”
Quoted in Randy Alcorn “Pro-life Answers to Pro-Choice Arguments” (Sisters, Oregon: Multnomah Publishers, 2000)

*********


“The formation, maturation and meeting of a male and female sex cell are all preliminary to their actual union into a combined cell, or zygote, which definitely marks the beginning of a new individual. The penetration of the ovum by the spermatozoon, and the coming together and pooling of their respective nuclei, constitutes the process of fertilization.”

Leslie Brainerd Arey, “Developmental Anatomy” seventh edition space (Philadelphia: Saunders, 1974), 55

*********

Thibodeau, G.A., and Anthony, C.P., Structure and Function of the Body, 8th edition, St. Louis: Times Mirror/Mosby College Publishers, St. Louis, 1988. pages 409-419

“The science of the development of the individual before birth is called embryology. It is the story of miracles, describing the means by which a single microscopic cell is transformed into a complex human being. Genetically the zygote is complete. It represents a new single celled individual.”

*********

Carlson, Bruce M. Patten’s Foundations of Embryology. 6th edition. New York: McGraw-Hill, 1996, p. 3
“Almost all higher animals start their lives from a single cell, the fertilized ovum (zygote)… The time of fertilization represents the starting point in the life history, or ontogeny, of the individual.”

*********

Considine, Douglas (ed.). Van Nostrand’s Scientific Encyclopedia. 5th edition. New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold Company, 1976, p. 943

“Embryo: The developing individual between the union of the germ cells and the completion of the organs which characterize its body when it becomes a separate organism…. At the moment the sperm cell of the human male meets the ovum of the female and the union results in a fertilized ovum (zygote), a new life has begun. ”

*********

Lennart Nilsson A Child is Born: Completely Revised Edition (Dell Publishing Co.: New York) 1986

“but the whole story does not begin with delivery. The baby has existed for months before – at first signaling its presence only with small outer signs, later on as a somewhat foreign little being which has been growing and gradually affecting the lives of those close by…”

*********

Kaluger, G., and Kaluger, M., Human Development: The Span of Life, page 28-29, The C.V. Mosby Co., St. Louis, 1974

“In that fraction of a second when the chromosomes form pairs, [at conception] the sex of the new child will be determined, hereditary characteristics received from each parent will be set, and a new life will have begun.”

*********

Langman, Jan. Medical Embryology. 3rd edition. Baltimore: Williams and Wilkins, 1975, p. 3

“The development of a human being begins with fertilization, a process by which two highly specialized cells, the spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female, unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote.”

*********

Human Embryology, 3rd ed. Bradley M. Patten, (New York: McGraw Hill, 1968), 43.

“It is the penetration of the ovum by a spermatozoan and resultant mingling of the nuclear material each brings to the union that constitutes the culmination of the process of fertilization and marks the initiation of the life of a new individual."

*********

The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology, 6th ed. Keith L. Moore, Ph.D. & T.V.N. Persaud, Md., (Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company, 1998), 2-18:

“[The Zygote] results from the union of an oocyte and a sperm. A zygote is the beginning of a new human being. Human development begins at fertilization, the process during which a male gamete or sperm … unites with a female gamete or oocyte … to form a single cell called a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marks the beginning of each of us as a unique individual.”

 

[BWK]

What if the woman decides it is one?

The obstetrician is still treating two patients irrelevant of whether one patient chooses to kill the other patient.

So, the doctor is calling it a patient, while science is calling it a fetus that does not have all the development organs to call it a fully developed human being, with a fully developed brain. And that's on the doctor, not the actual patient who has already been born, with a developed brain who responds to stimulus. That is the patient that counts as it pertains to Biological science. Get it?

In other words, you are making a case for a so called patient that is undeveloped, is not conscious, and does not respond to stimuli based on the fetus/patients undeveloped brain, and give it priority over the patient that does. That's about as dumb and insensitive of a case that you could possibly come up with. I mean, you are trying to take away 100%, the actual born patients rights to protect that born patient, over the undeveloped one that feels nothing. Boss, that is total insanity.

If you think you have science on your side you are flatly wrong. Scientifically, the preborn baby is a human being, whether you like it or not.... it’s simply in a different stage of life. Yes the preborn is still developing, but so is a newborn, and a child, and a teenager. We are human beings from the moment we come into existence until the moment we die. You’ve just believed the lies promoted by those who are making a lot of money in the business of killing.

You are speaking directly to emotions and feelings. You aren't arguing your case through the lens of scientific analysis or logical reasoning. Being a human being, is not being a fully developed human being in the womb. Scientifically, it is a developing fetus with no developed brain, and the only risk taker is the female carrying that fetus. Whether you like it or not.

And other "human beings making a lot of money in the business of killing"? Really? Explain that logically from a scientific approach how it is killing a fully developed human being? Otherwise, I have no idea what it is they are killing?

Let's ask it like this; was the chicken killed in the egg, or was the yoke from the chicken egg killed before you bought it? Or maybe it was never killed at all? Maybe it was just prevented from developing, by putting it at a temperature that stopped development, seeing that it was never a fully developed chicken?

Biologically speaking, it is very easy to understand, that to stop a developing fetus, isn't much different than stopping a developing yoke turn into a chicken. Did either one have the developed brain to know the difference? Biologically speaking, science says no. So, you will need to clarify this "killing" claim of yours.

Sorry, but from a scientific standpoint, the preborn is a human being, a member of the human species, that has nothing to do with emotion, it's a undeniable scientific fact. Here are a few quotes for you:


“….it is scientifically correct to say that human life begins at conception.”

Dr. Micheline Matthews-Roth, Harvard Medical School: Quoted by Public Affairs Council

*********

“Landrum B. Shettles, M.D., P.h.D. was first scientist to succeed at in vitro fertilization:

“The zygote is human life….there is one fact that no one can deny; Human beings begin at conception.”

From Landrum B. Shettles “Rites of Life: The Scientific Evidence for Life Before Birth” Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1983 p 40

*********

“Fertilization is the process by which male and female haploid gametes (sperm and egg) unite to produce a genetically distinct individual.”

Signorelli et al., Kinases, phosphatases and proteases during sperm capacitation, CELL TISSUE RES. 349(3):765 (Mar. 20, 2012)

*********

National Institutes of Health, Medline Plus Merriam-Webster Medical Dictionary (2013), http://www.merriamwebster.com/...

The government’s own definition attests to the fact that life begins at fertilization. According to the National Institutes of Health, “fertilization” is the process of union of two gametes (i.e., ovum and sperm) “whereby the somatic chromosome number is restored and the development of a new individual is initiated.”

Steven Ertelt “Undisputed Scientific Fact: Human Life Begins at Conception, or Fertilization” 11/18/13

*********

“It is the penetration of the ovum by a sperm and the resulting mingling of nuclear material each brings to the union that constitutes the initiation of the life of a new individual.”

Clark Edward and Corliss Patten’s Human Embryology, McGraw – Hill Inc., 30

*********


Keith L. Moore, Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology, 7th edition. Philadelphia, PA: Saunders, 2008. p. 2.
“[The zygote], formed by the union of an oocyte and a sperm, is the beginning of a new human being.”

*********

“The first cell of a new and unique human life begins existence at the moment of conception (fertilization) when one living sperm from the father joins with one living ovum from the mother. It is in this manner that human life passes from one generation to another. Given the appropriate environment and genetic composition, the single cell subsequently gives rise to trillions of specialized and integrated cells that compose the structures and functions of each individual human body. Every human being alive today and, as far as is known scientifically, every human being that ever existed, began his or her unique existence in this manner, i.e., as one cell. If this first cell or any subsequent configuration of cells perishes, the individual dies, ceasing to exist in matter as a living being. There are no known exceptions to this rule in the field of human biology.”

James Bopp, ed., Human Life and Health Care Ethics, vol. 2 (Frederick, MD: University Publications of America, 1985)

*********

Rand McNally, Atlas of the Body (New York: Rand McNally, 1980) 139, 144
“In fusing together, the male and female gametes produce a fertilized single cell, the zygote, which is the start of a new individual.”
Quoted in Randy Alcorn “Pro-life Answers to Pro-Choice Arguments” (Sisters, Oregon: Multnomah Publishers, 2000)

*********


“The formation, maturation and meeting of a male and female sex cell are all preliminary to their actual union into a combined cell, or zygote, which definitely marks the beginning of a new individual. The penetration of the ovum by the spermatozoon, and the coming together and pooling of their respective nuclei, constitutes the process of fertilization.”

Leslie Brainerd Arey, “Developmental Anatomy” seventh edition space (Philadelphia: Saunders, 1974), 55

*********

Thibodeau, G.A., and Anthony, C.P., Structure and Function of the Body, 8th edition, St. Louis: Times Mirror/Mosby College Publishers, St. Louis, 1988. pages 409-419

“The science of the development of the individual before birth is called embryology. It is the story of miracles, describing the means by which a single microscopic cell is transformed into a complex human being. Genetically the zygote is complete. It represents a new single celled individual.”

*********

Carlson, Bruce M. Patten’s Foundations of Embryology. 6th edition. New York: McGraw-Hill, 1996, p. 3
“Almost all higher animals start their lives from a single cell, the fertilized ovum (zygote)… The time of fertilization represents the starting point in the life history, or ontogeny, of the individual.”

*********

Considine, Douglas (ed.). Van Nostrand’s Scientific Encyclopedia. 5th edition. New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold Company, 1976, p. 943

“Embryo: The developing individual between the union of the germ cells and the completion of the organs which characterize its body when it becomes a separate organism…. At the moment the sperm cell of the human male meets the ovum of the female and the union results in a fertilized ovum (zygote), a new life has begun. ”

*********

Lennart Nilsson A Child is Born: Completely Revised Edition (Dell Publishing Co.: New York) 1986

“but the whole story does not begin with delivery. The baby has existed for months before – at first signaling its presence only with small outer signs, later on as a somewhat foreign little being which has been growing and gradually affecting the lives of those close by…”

*********

Kaluger, G., and Kaluger, M., Human Development: The Span of Life, page 28-29, The C.V. Mosby Co., St. Louis, 1974

“In that fraction of a second when the chromosomes form pairs, [at conception] the sex of the new child will be determined, hereditary characteristics received from each parent will be set, and a new life will have begun.”

*********

Langman, Jan. Medical Embryology. 3rd edition. Baltimore: Williams and Wilkins, 1975, p. 3

“The development of a human being begins with fertilization, a process by which two highly specialized cells, the spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female, unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote.”

*********

Human Embryology, 3rd ed. Bradley M. Patten, (New York: McGraw Hill, 1968), 43.

“It is the penetration of the ovum by a spermatozoan and resultant mingling of the nuclear material each brings to the union that constitutes the culmination of the process of fertilization and marks the initiation of the life of a new individual."

*********

The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology, 6th ed. Keith L. Moore, Ph.D. & T.V.N. Persaud, Md., (Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company, 1998), 2-18:

“[The Zygote] results from the union of an oocyte and a sperm. A zygote is the beginning of a new human being. Human development begins at fertilization, the process during which a male gamete or sperm … unites with a female gamete or oocyte … to form a single cell called a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marks the beginning of each of us as a unique individual.”

Sorry, but a fully developed human being is a scientific impossibility at conception. There exists no fully developed human being at conception. That is a scientific fact.

Also, in some of these publications, they talk about the initiation of life. Yet, no human on this planet has ever definitively defined life, other than to use their own religious or philosophical views about the subject. Wikipedia cannot define life. Meaning of life - Wikipedia So, how can you or anyone else define it, when in the womb? Answer, you can't. You insist on making the claim to fit what your emotions tell you to believe. But the science still tells us that a fetus at conception, is not a fully developed human being, and we know that fetus is not experiencing life as we know it until after birth. Again, there exists no publication telling us this.

Your articles mention the determination of the sex, and the developing human being after fertilization and the zygote is the beginning of a human being. AND? What about it? Those things have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with a mothers decision and right as a born human being with a functioning brain to determine what is best for her and her own body. The rest of this pro-life talk is just bs.

 

[Lakhota]

Even Pat Robertson Says Alabama’s Abortion Bill Is Too Extreme

Wow, even too crazy for Pat Robertson.

 

[BWK]

Even Pat Robertson Says Alabama’s Abortion Bill Is Too Extreme

Wow, even too crazy for Pat Robertson.

These folks are crazy as hell.

 

[bodecea]

This is a sincere poll. I would appreciate honest answers. If you're willing, I would also appreciate your reasons. I will not criticize your choice. I would just honestly like to know where USMB posters stand on this issue.

NOTE: I know there are many possible variables, but this poll assumes "typical" circumstances. In other words, this is a superficial poll that assumes "normal/average" circumstances - meaning no rape, incest, health, deformity, financial, or other extenuating issues.

Ask CRCs....if they were to answer honestly.... ...it would probably be "the sperm".

 

[bodecea]

The innocent life created by no fault of itself.

Would you say that life was just as innocent after birth?

 

[Lakhota]

Why?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Why?

Lol, says people who think they know what is or isn't a human being. What gall you have lecturing anyone on science.