Which Side Are You On?

[M.D. Rawlings]

Are you arguing for a distributive philosophy like Social Credit?

CH Douglas believed the only safe place for power is in many hands.

Would his solution of dispersing power to individuals and small businesses bypass the elites?

I'm only interested in real-world outcomes. The Lockean system has worked better than any other. The United States is the essence of it, the nearest thing to it in history on this side of heaven. Liberty itself is the best check against the depravity of tyranny. Ideological competition is the essence of liberty in action. It's what the people think that matters. In the real world, the thing that ails America most is its public education system. Universal school choice would utterly smash the "apparatchiks" control of America's mind. The rest would take care of itself accordingly.

 

[georgephillip]

Are you arguing for a distributive philosophy like Social Credit?

CH Douglas believed the only safe place for power is in many hands.

Would his solution of dispersing power to individuals and small businesses bypass the elites?

I'm only interested in real-world outcomes. The Lockean system has worked better than any other. The United States is the essence of it, the nearest thing to it in history on this side of heaven. Liberty itself is the best check against the depravity of tyranny. Ideological competition is the essence of liberty in action. It's what the people think that matters. In the real world, the thing that ails America most is its public education system. Universal school choice would utterly smash the "apparatchiks" control of America's mind. The rest would take care of itself accordingly.

Does the real-world outcome you seek depend on the existence of heaven?

What if heaven is just another lie elites tell?

 

[eflatminor]

"The 30s through 50s were the time of the New Deal, low-cost loans from the Federal Housing Administration, the GI Bill, huge subsidies for defense contractors during the Cold War and other industries that employed millions of people, massive transfer of funding from cities to the burgeoning suburbs, federal projects like interstate highway construction and the space program, generous investment in public schools, record union membership, high tax rates for corporations and the wealthy, good job benefits, and Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, which ensured financial stability in old age and medical crises..

Yep...and we're still paying for it today. The New Deal, the Great Society...they've failed as do all socialist experiments.

 

[georgephillip]

Some of "us" are richer than we've ever been AND paying less in taxes.

Think there's a connection?

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

Are you arguing for a distributive philosophy like Social Credit?

CH Douglas believed the only safe place for power is in many hands.

Would his solution of dispersing power to individuals and small businesses bypass the elites?

I'm only interested in real-world outcomes. The Lockean system has worked better than any other. The United States is the essence of it, the nearest thing to it in history on this side of heaven. Liberty itself is the best check against the depravity of tyranny. Ideological competition is the essence of liberty in action. It's what the people think that matters. In the real world, the thing that ails America most is its public education system. Universal school choice would utterly smash the "apparatchiks" control of America's mind. The rest would take care of itself.

Does the real-world outcome you seek depend on the existence of heaven?

What if heaven is just another lie elites tell?

No. It's a mere turn of phrase.

It's not. Your materialism is showing. You might want to zip that up.

 

[georgephillip]

What does Locke's system say about ever-widening income inequality?

 

[eflatminor]

What does Locke's system say about ever-widening income inequality?

Equality of income...that's an inalienable right, right? Oh if only everyone made the same, learned the same, thought the same...that would be great!

 

[daveman]

What does Locke's system say about ever-widening income inequality?

Equality of income...that's an inalienable right, right? Oh if only everyone made the same, learned the same, thought the same...that would be great!

Leftists can't tolerate individuality. It scares them.

Leftists are Borg. Luckily for the rest of us, they're incompetent Borg. "We will add your distinctiveness to our own...by force of law, since you won't agree to do it voluntarily."

 

[editec]

Quote: Originally Posted by georgephillip
ed never claimed progressive taxation was extortion.
You did.

You didn't, but your crony editec did. I asked you if you agreed with his understanding of the term.

Don't know where you read, amigo, that but if anything I'm for more progressive taxation rather that the dumbed down system we have right now.

Calling taxation extortion is silly.

 

[thereisnospoon]

What does Locke's system say about ever-widening income inequality?

The only people who whine about this imaginary problem are people like you.
There is no guarantee that we all earn the same amount of money. There is no guarantee we are all born with the same abilities, intellect, work ethic, luck, misfortune, health, etc...
You are basing your entire standing here on the theory of "equality of outcome"..
There is no such thing. Even in a society where there is total government control of all income and redistribution, there are haves and have nots.
Equality of outcome is a dream thought up by those wishing for the existence of a socialist utopia.
Here we are guaranteed equal treatment under the law. There is no guarantee to equal economic standing. That is impossible unless all people are genetically engineered to be identical and if they are raised under identical conditions where there is 100% environmental control and people have no right to choose.

 

[georgephillip]

What does Locke's system say about ever-widening income inequality?

Equality of income...that's an inalienable right, right? Oh if only everyone made the same, learned the same, thought the same...that would be great!

It would be even greater if American employers paid their workers enough to buy the goods and services their jobs produced. Are you old enough to remember when mass production and mass consumption were perfect complements? When almost everyone who wanted a job could find one that paid a livable wage?

That has not been the case for the last thirty years, and government's redistribution of wealth in favor of FIRE sector income over wage/small business labor is the biggest reason why, imho.

The Truth About the American Economy

 

[eflatminor]

What does Locke's system say about ever-widening income inequality?

Equality of income...that's an inalienable right, right? Oh if only everyone made the same, learned the same, thought the same...that would be great!

It would be even greater if American employers paid their workers enough to buy the goods and services their jobs produced. Are you old enough to remember when mass production and mass consumption were perfect complements? When almost everyone who wanted a job could find one that paid a livable wage?

That has not been the case for the last thirty years, and government's redistribution of wealth in favor of FIRE sector income over wage/small business labor is the biggest reason why, imho.

The Truth About the American Economy

I sounds like you don't like that fact that salaries are not keeping up with inflation.

Couldn't agree more! Time to end the Fed. More redistribution is not the answer.

 

[georgephillip]

What does Locke's system say about ever-widening income inequality?

The only people who whine about this imaginary problem are people like you.
There is no guarantee that we all earn the same amount of money. There is no guarantee we are all born with the same abilities, intellect, work ethic, luck, misfortune, health, etc...
You are basing your entire standing here on the theory of "equality of outcome"..
There is no such thing. Even in a society where there is total government control of all income and redistribution, there are haves and have nots.
Equality of outcome is a dream thought up by those wishing for the existence of a socialist utopia.
Here we are guaranteed equal treatment under the law. There is no guarantee to equal economic standing. That is impossible unless all people are genetically engineered to be identical and if they are raised under identical conditions where there is 100% environmental control and people have no right to choose.

You're the only one using the phrase "equality of outcome."

For thirty years between roughly 1947 to 1977 government provided a reasonable approximation of equality under the law as far as economics was concerned for most Americans. During those decades when the economy grew almost everyone came out ahead, including the rich.

Robert Reich:

"The pay of workers in the bottom fifth grew 116 percent over these years — faster than the pay of those in the top fifth (which rose 99 percent), and in the top 5 percent (86 percent).

"Productivity also grew quickly. Labor productivity — average output per hour worked — doubled. So did median incomes. Expressed in 2007 dollars, the typical family’s income rose from about $25,000 to $55,000. The basic bargain was cinched.

"The middle class had the means to buy, and their buying created new jobs. As the economy grew, the national debt shrank as a percentage of it."

During the last ten years only the USSR has lost more jobs in a single decade than the US.

In the same time period the richest 1% have doubled their share of returns to wealth.

The two events are related; they are not imaginary.

One does not happen without the other.

The Truth About the American Economy

 

[georgephillip]

What does Locke's system say about ever-widening income inequality?

Equality of income...that's an inalienable right, right? Oh if only everyone made the same, learned the same, thought the same...that would be great!

Leftists can't tolerate individuality. It scares them.

Leftists are Borg. Luckily for the rest of us, they're incompetent Borg. "We will add your distinctiveness to our own...by force of law, since you won't agree to do it voluntarily."

"Obedience is Freedom"

This was posted outside a US military base in 2007.

Did the Borg do it?

 

[georgephillip]

Equality of income...that's an inalienable right, right? Oh if only everyone made the same, learned the same, thought the same...that would be great!

It would be even greater if American employers paid their workers enough to buy the goods and services their jobs produced. Are you old enough to remember when mass production and mass consumption were perfect complements? When almost everyone who wanted a job could find one that paid a livable wage?

That has not been the case for the last thirty years, and government's redistribution of wealth in favor of FIRE sector income over wage/small business labor is the biggest reason why, imho.

The Truth About the American Economy

I sounds like you don't like that fact that salaries are not keeping up with inflation.

Couldn't agree more! Time to end the Fed. More redistribution is not the answer.

What would replace the Fed?

 

[eflatminor]

It would be even greater if American employers paid their workers enough to buy the goods and services their jobs produced. Are you old enough to remember when mass production and mass consumption were perfect complements? When almost everyone who wanted a job could find one that paid a livable wage?

That has not been the case for the last thirty years, and government's redistribution of wealth in favor of FIRE sector income over wage/small business labor is the biggest reason why, imho.

The Truth About the American Economy

I sounds like you don't like that fact that salaries are not keeping up with inflation.

Couldn't agree more! Time to end the Fed. More redistribution is not the answer.

What would replace the Fed?

Interest rates set by the market. Central planning price controls never work and they certainly don't work when it comes to the price of money. In addition, the Congress has the sole power to coin money. The Fed stole that in 1913. Time to take it back.

 

[georgephillip]

Do you think Government Sachs would have undue influence over interest rates?

 

[eflatminor]

Do you think Government Sachs would have undue influence over interest rates?

Government Sachs, yes, they would have too much influence. This is why I reject both the Fed, which funds such bailouts, and the regulatory blankets and tax breaks that support such a bank. End the Fed, simplify the tax code (flat, fair, etc) and Sachs becomes just another firm competing in the business of lending money. They will set their rates and determine their underwriting criteria based on that which they thing will bring them profit...without the backing of the Fed, Freddie/Fannie, etc. Competition and choice are powerful things.

The point is, there is no need for the fed. They have no Constitutional authority to print money, the Congress should do that according to the amount of (insert valuable commodity) held by the government. They certainly have no Constitutional authority to monopolize the market for money. The don't prevent inflation, they create it...to the great benefit of member banks as well as the Congress that uses the Fed as a no-consequence ATM. Imagine how many wars and unneeded government programs we could have avoided if they had to actually be paid for. Image the crippling debt we're facing...gone.

 

[thereisnospoon]

What does Locke's system say about ever-widening income inequality?

The only people who whine about this imaginary problem are people like you.
There is no guarantee that we all earn the same amount of money. There is no guarantee we are all born with the same abilities, intellect, work ethic, luck, misfortune, health, etc...
You are basing your entire standing here on the theory of "equality of outcome"..
There is no such thing. Even in a society where there is total government control of all income and redistribution, there are haves and have nots.
Equality of outcome is a dream thought up by those wishing for the existence of a socialist utopia.
Here we are guaranteed equal treatment under the law. There is no guarantee to equal economic standing. That is impossible unless all people are genetically engineered to be identical and if they are raised under identical conditions where there is 100% environmental control and people have no right to choose.

You're the only one using the phrase "equality of outcome."

For thirty years between roughly 1947 to 1977 government provided a reasonable approximation of equality under the law as far as economics was concerned for most Americans. During those decades when the economy grew almost everyone came out ahead, including the rich.

Robert Reich:

"The pay of workers in the bottom fifth grew 116 percent over these years — faster than the pay of those in the top fifth (which rose 99 percent), and in the top 5 percent (86 percent).

"Productivity also grew quickly. Labor productivity — average output per hour worked — doubled. So did median incomes. Expressed in 2007 dollars, the typical family’s income rose from about $25,000 to $55,000. The basic bargain was cinched.

"The middle class had the means to buy, and their buying created new jobs. As the economy grew, the national debt shrank as a percentage of it."

During the last ten years only the USSR has lost more jobs in a single decade than the US.

In the same time period the richest 1% have doubled their share of returns to wealth.

The two events are related; they are not imaginary.

One does not happen without the other.

The Truth About the American Economy

On here, you boob!
And what the fuck does Robert Reiccccccccchhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh have to do with anything?
He's a friggin liberal hack anyway.
How many times do you need to be told THERE IS NO "SHARE"....
There is no magical pot of money from which we all draw. The concept that if one has more then another MUST have less is patently false.
There are three factors which affect wages. One, illegal immigration suppresses wages in farming, landscaping, domestics, retail and construction.
Far more people are graduating from college than ever before. ON the order of 300,000 new BA's each year. That creates a larger supply of available white collar workers entering the job market. So even though pay rates are rising, the reverse is occurring for entry level white collar workers.
Third, there are many white collar industries such as IT in which workers are imported from places like Pakistan and India where young people do two things. They learn English and computers. These people while well paid, enough to buy homes are not getting the $60k -$80k wages for first year IT workers as in the past.
It seems you are insisting that low level or entry level workers should simply be able to run out and buy a house or a new car with a minimum wage job. Not possible. Min wage was never intended for that.

 

[bripat9643]

In the struggle between Corporate America vs. We the People, which side are you on?

The struggle is purely a leftwing delusion. Corporations arne the American people are mostly on the same side. The real struggle is between the producers and the looters.

You're in the later category.