Which Side Are You On?

[bripat9643]

We the People have the power to change the government. How much power do We the People have in corporate board rooms?

Do corporations do a better job of keeping employment here in America than any other entity? Are corporations widely regarded as great stewards of our natural resources? Corporations are motivated by their own profit margins, not the public good.

Thanks for spouting all the typical knee-jerk leftwing bromides. We've heard them all 10,000 times before, but it's cute that you think they are persuasive in some fashion.

 

[bripat9643]

That's one hell of a leap to make. I trust government more than private corporate interests. .

You just anounced to the entire forum that your an utter fool.

 

[snjmom]

I trust neither but at least I can vote against the prick in gov.

 

[bripat9643]

I trust neither but at least I can vote against the prick in gov.

If you don't like the way Exxon runs its business, then don't buy their products. You don't have that option with government. You pay for it regardless.

 

[georgephillip]

Do you think Government Sachs would have undue influence over interest rates?

Government Sachs, yes, they would have too much influence. This is why I reject both the Fed, which funds such bailouts, and the regulatory blankets and tax breaks that support such a bank. End the Fed, simplify the tax code (flat, fair, etc) and Sachs becomes just another firm competing in the business of lending money. They will set their rates and determine their underwriting criteria based on that which they thing will bring them profit...without the backing of the Fed, Freddie/Fannie, etc. Competition and choice are powerful things.

The point is, there is no need for the fed. They have no Constitutional authority to print money, the Congress should do that according to the amount of (insert valuable commodity) held by the government. They certainly have no Constitutional authority to monopolize the market for money. The don't prevent inflation, they create it...to the great benefit of member banks as well as the Congress that uses the Fed as a no-consequence ATM. Imagine how many wars and unneeded government programs we could have avoided if they had to actually be paid for. Image the crippling debt we're facing...gone.

If all the money in the current US economy comes from debt and the debt disappears, doesn't that eliminate all the money, too?

A flat tax that falls on FIRE sector income as well as earned income might serve to decrease income inequality. It's my understanding the current versions of flat/fair taxation don't do that.

Landlords will continue to make money "in their sleep" and be exempt from paying taxes on their income

 

[bripat9643]

If all the money in the current US economy comes from debt and the debt disappears, doesn't that eliminate all the money, too?

A flat tax that falls on FIRE sector income as well as earned income might serve to decrease income inequality. It's my understanding the current versions of flat/fair taxation don't do that.

Landlords will continue to make money "in their sleep" and be exempt from paying taxes on their income

The only thing confiscatory taxes on the financial industry will do is put an end to all investment and put us on the road to mass poverty.

Communism doesn't work. It's been proven over and over and over.

When is that reality going to penetrate the skulls of numskulls like you?

 

[georgephillip]

The only people who whine about this imaginary problem are people like you.
There is no guarantee that we all earn the same amount of money. There is no guarantee we are all born with the same abilities, intellect, work ethic, luck, misfortune, health, etc...
You are basing your entire standing here on the theory of "equality of outcome"..
There is no such thing. Even in a society where there is total government control of all income and redistribution, there are haves and have nots.
Equality of outcome is a dream thought up by those wishing for the existence of a socialist utopia.
Here we are guaranteed equal treatment under the law. There is no guarantee to equal economic standing. That is impossible unless all people are genetically engineered to be identical and if they are raised under identical conditions where there is 100% environmental control and people have no right to choose.

You're the only one using the phrase "equality of outcome."

For thirty years between roughly 1947 to 1977 government provided a reasonable approximation of equality under the law as far as economics was concerned for most Americans. During those decades when the economy grew almost everyone came out ahead, including the rich.

Robert Reich:

"The pay of workers in the bottom fifth grew 116 percent over these years — faster than the pay of those in the top fifth (which rose 99 percent), and in the top 5 percent (86 percent).

"Productivity also grew quickly. Labor productivity — average output per hour worked — doubled. So did median incomes. Expressed in 2007 dollars, the typical family’s income rose from about $25,000 to $55,000. The basic bargain was cinched.

"The middle class had the means to buy, and their buying created new jobs. As the economy grew, the national debt shrank as a percentage of it."

During the last ten years only the USSR has lost more jobs in a single decade than the US.

In the same time period the richest 1% have doubled their share of returns to wealth.

The two events are related; they are not imaginary.

One does not happen without the other.

The Truth About the American Economy

On here, you boob!
And what the fuck does Robert Reiccccccccchhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh have to do with anything?
He's a friggin liberal hack anyway.
How many times do you need to be told THERE IS NO "SHARE"....
There is no magical pot of money from which we all draw. The concept that if one has more then another MUST have less is patently false.
There are three factors which affect wages. One, illegal immigration suppresses wages in farming, landscaping, domestics, retail and construction.
Far more people are graduating from college than ever before. ON the order of 300,000 new BA's each year. That creates a larger supply of available white collar workers entering the job market. So even though pay rates are rising, the reverse is occurring for entry level white collar workers.
Third, there are many white collar industries such as IT in which workers are imported from places like Pakistan and India where young people do two things. They learn English and computers. These people while well paid, enough to buy homes are not getting the $60k -$80k wages for first year IT workers as in the past.
It seems you are insisting that low level or entry level workers should simply be able to run out and buy a house or a new car with a minimum wage job. Not possible. Min wage was never intended for that.

"(Robert) Reich, was born in Scranton, Pennsylvania, and attended John Jay High School in Cross River, New York. He attended Dartmouth College, graduating summa cum laude with a bachelor's degree in 1968 and winning a Rhodes Scholarship to study Philosophy, Politics, and Economics at Oxford.[5] Reich subsequently earned a J.D. from Yale Law School, where he was an editor of the Yale Law Journal."

Robert Reich - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just because you disagree with someone's politics doesn't mean they don't know more than you about some subjects, like Economics, Philosophy and Politics.

We're agreed "(t)here is no magical pot of money from which we all draw."

Now explain how this country went from the Great Depression to 30 years of Great Prosperity, and from there to 30 years of stagnant incomes and widening inequality which peaked in our Great (double dip?) Recession?

Explain why our "recovery" has been so anemic without mentioning how the richest 1% of us have increased their SHARE of national income and wealth over the last two years.

There is a finite number every year for total national wealth and income, right?

Over the past thirty years the rich have been increasing their SHARE of those numbers, and it's not because of hard work. It is because they bribe Republicans AND Democrats to write tax laws favoring FIRE sector income over wage/small business earnings.

You can't change that dynamic by "choosing" between Republican OR Democrat in the voting booth.

 

[Bern80]

Anybody remember Archie and Edith?

"Everybody pulled his weight.
Didn't need no welfare state...
Those were the days!"

Archie Bunker, protagonist of the popular 1970s TV sitcom "All in the Family" and today's Tea Party movement seem to share a misconception of just how "conservative" the 1930s, 40s and 50s actually were.

Were those decades a time when hard-working Americans pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps?

"It's true that Americans worked hard during these years.

"But the bootstraps stuff is nonsense.

"The 30s through 50s were the time of the New Deal, low-cost loans from the Federal Housing Administration, the GI Bill, huge subsidies for defense contractors during the Cold War and other industries that employed millions of people, massive transfer of funding from cities to the burgeoning suburbs, federal projects like interstate highway construction and the space program, generous investment in public schools, record union membership, high tax rates for corporations and the wealthy, good job benefits, and Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, which ensured financial stability in old age and medical crises...

"On the evidence of history, calling today's Republican Party and their Tea Party supporters 'conservative' is as absurd as calling supporters of civil rights and racial justice 'reactionary' because they invoke the values of the Reconstruction Era."

Which Side Are You On? New Language for a New Political Reality | Common Dreams

There is a profound difference between giving a person a Hand up from a Hand out. Nobody has a problem giving a person a hand up there is however a problem giving them a hand out.

In the struggle between Corporate America vs. We the People, which side are you on?

There is no war between corporate america and the people. It's a figment of the imagination of class envy types like yourself.

 

[eflatminor]

Do you think Government Sachs would have undue influence over interest rates?

Government Sachs, yes, they would have too much influence. This is why I reject both the Fed, which funds such bailouts, and the regulatory blankets and tax breaks that support such a bank. End the Fed, simplify the tax code (flat, fair, etc) and Sachs becomes just another firm competing in the business of lending money. They will set their rates and determine their underwriting criteria based on that which they thing will bring them profit...without the backing of the Fed, Freddie/Fannie, etc. Competition and choice are powerful things.

The point is, there is no need for the fed. They have no Constitutional authority to print money, the Congress should do that according to the amount of (insert valuable commodity) held by the government. They certainly have no Constitutional authority to monopolize the market for money. The don't prevent inflation, they create it...to the great benefit of member banks as well as the Congress that uses the Fed as a no-consequence ATM. Imagine how many wars and unneeded government programs we could have avoided if they had to actually be paid for. Image the crippling debt we're facing...gone.

If all the money in the current US economy comes from debt and the debt disappears, doesn't that eliminate all the money, too?

A flat tax that falls on FIRE sector income as well as earned income might serve to decrease income inequality. It's my understanding the current versions of flat/fair taxation don't do that.

Landlords will continue to make money "in their sleep" and be exempt from paying taxes on their income

No, not all the money in the economy comes from debt, just too much. Ending the Fed would in no way eliminate the money in the economy. It would however, ensure that our economy's money is sound, backed by something real.

Flat/fair tax is about fairness in tax collection and maximizing revenue to the government. Though it is not specifically designed to deal with income disparity, because it eliminates the loopholes the rich can currently take advantage of, it may indeed help in that cause. More importantly, it help EVERYONE by leveling the playing field and boosting the economy for ALL.

Landlords will not necessarily be exempt unless things like mortgage payment credits are allowed in a flat/fair tax, which still would not exempt them from paying taxes on income. Don't allow any exemptions and you're golden.

 

[georgephillip]

In the struggle between Corporate America vs. We the People, which side are you on?

The struggle is purely a leftwing delusion. Corporations arne the American people are mostly on the same side. The real struggle is between the producers and the looters.

You're in the later category.

What about Boeing, Halliburton and Goldman Sachs?
Producers or looters?

Corporations are the last remaining 20th Century fascist institutions.

Naturally an ignorant slave like you supports them.

 

[eflatminor]

In the struggle between Corporate America vs. We the People, which side are you on?

The struggle is purely a leftwing delusion. Corporations arne the American people are mostly on the same side. The real struggle is between the producers and the looters.

You're in the later category.

What about Boeing, Halliburton and Goldman Sachs?
Producers or looters?

Corporations are the last remaining 20th Century fascist institutions.

Naturally an ignorant slave like you supports them.

Way over the top! You have evidence that those three corporations have stole (looted)? Sure, they took government handouts and they accept regulatory protections from their bought-and-paid-for politicians in DC. But for that I blame the politicians that did the bailing out and who wrote the regulations...not the companies that accepted the handout. Do you consider anyone that accepts a handout a looter?

If you're against corporations, how do you suggest a group of people that wish to compete in the marketplace organize themselves? Is an LLC okay? A limited partnership? Must everything be owned by just one person as in a sole ownership?

Slave? The only ones in this country I would consider slaves would be anyone who is forced, against his will, to labor on behalf of another. Isn't that at the very heart of slavery?

 

[georgephillip]

If all the money in the current US economy comes from debt and the debt disappears, doesn't that eliminate all the money, too?

A flat tax that falls on FIRE sector income as well as earned income might serve to decrease income inequality. It's my understanding the current versions of flat/fair taxation don't do that.

Landlords will continue to make money "in their sleep" and be exempt from paying taxes on their income

The only thing confiscatory taxes on the financial industry will do is put an end to all investment and put us on the road to mass poverty.

Communism doesn't work. It's been proven over and over and over.

When is that reality going to penetrate the skulls of numskulls like you?

We're already on "the road to mass poverty."

"The May jobs report is a disaster — the weakest reading since September. Non-farm payrolls grew only 54,000 last month, according to the Labor Department’s Bureau of Labor Statistics.

"Private employment rose only 83,000 — the smallest growth since last June. Government payrolls dropped 29,000.

The overall jobless rate rose to 9.1 percent.

"Together with plummeting housing prices, falling wages for non-supervisory workers, a paltry 1.8 percent growth in the first quarter, and a precipitous drop in consumer confidence, the picture should be clear to anyone able to see clearly. (Even you.)

"The recovery has stalled."

Robert Reich

It was the financial industry's "investments" in CDOs, CDSs and MBS that turned the last corner on the road to mass poverty in this country.

Your reality is to further reward them?

 

[eflatminor]

If all the money in the current US economy comes from debt and the debt disappears, doesn't that eliminate all the money, too?

A flat tax that falls on FIRE sector income as well as earned income might serve to decrease income inequality. It's my understanding the current versions of flat/fair taxation don't do that.

Landlords will continue to make money "in their sleep" and be exempt from paying taxes on their income

The only thing confiscatory taxes on the financial industry will do is put an end to all investment and put us on the road to mass poverty.

Communism doesn't work. It's been proven over and over and over.

When is that reality going to penetrate the skulls of numskulls like you?

We're already on "the road to mass poverty."

"The May jobs report is a disaster — the weakest reading since September. Non-farm payrolls grew only 54,000 last month, according to the Labor Department’s Bureau of Labor Statistics.

"Private employment rose only 83,000 — the smallest growth since last June. Government payrolls dropped 29,000.

The overall jobless rate rose to 9.1 percent.

"Together with plummeting housing prices, falling wages for non-supervisory workers, a paltry 1.8 percent growth in the first quarter, and a precipitous drop in consumer confidence, the picture should be clear to anyone able to see clearly. (Even you.)

"The recovery has stalled."

Robert Reich

It was the financial industry's "investments" in CDOs, CDSs and MBS that turned the last corner on the road to mass poverty in this country.

Your reality is to further reward them?

Why do you think the financial industry invested in those mortgage related instruments so heavily and with such loose underwriting standards? Because the knew that those mortgages were backed by US taxpayers through the Fed, Fannie and Freddie!!! How can you blame them for taking advantage of a no risk investment scheme instead of the idiots in Washington that created the laws and organizations to back mortgages?

 

[georgephillip]

The only thing confiscatory taxes on the financial industry will do is put an end to all investment and put us on the road to mass poverty.

Communism doesn't work. It's been proven over and over and over.

When is that reality going to penetrate the skulls of numskulls like you?

We're already on "the road to mass poverty."

"The May jobs report is a disaster — the weakest reading since September. Non-farm payrolls grew only 54,000 last month, according to the Labor Department’s Bureau of Labor Statistics.

"Private employment rose only 83,000 — the smallest growth since last June. Government payrolls dropped 29,000.

The overall jobless rate rose to 9.1 percent.

"Together with plummeting housing prices, falling wages for non-supervisory workers, a paltry 1.8 percent growth in the first quarter, and a precipitous drop in consumer confidence, the picture should be clear to anyone able to see clearly. (Even you.)

"The recovery has stalled."

Robert Reich

It was the financial industry's "investments" in CDOs, CDSs and MBS that turned the last corner on the road to mass poverty in this country.

Your reality is to further reward them?

Why do you think the financial industry invested in those mortgage related instruments so heavily and with such loose underwriting standards? Because the knew that those mortgages were backed by US taxpayers through the Fed, Fannie and Freddie!!! How can you blame them for taking advantage of a no risk investment scheme instead of the idiots in Washington that created the laws and organizations to back mortgages?

Because the financial industry buys and sells the idiots in Washington the same way you and I buy newspapers.

Would you blame a mugger twice your size from beating you like a rented mule and transferring all the wealth in your pockets into his if he perceived little risk to himself?

 

[eflatminor]

Because the financial industry buys and sells the idiots in Washington the same way you and I buy newspapers.

EXACTLY! So why do you continue to vote for the very politicians that are so eager to write those regulatory protections for corporations??? One would think you would support those politicians that promote less regulations, no bailouts, etc. I suspect you vote for just opposite. Why?

 

[shintao]

Anybody remember Archie and Edith?

"Everybody pulled his weight.
Didn't need no welfare state...
Those were the days!"

Archie Bunker, protagonist of the popular 1970s TV sitcom "All in the Family" and today's Tea Party movement seem to share a misconception of just how "conservative" the 1930s, 40s and 50s actually were.

Were those decades a time when hard-working Americans pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps?

"It's true that Americans worked hard during these years.

"But the bootstraps stuff is nonsense.

"The 30s through 50s were the time of the New Deal, low-cost loans from the Federal Housing Administration, the GI Bill, huge subsidies for defense contractors during the Cold War and other industries that employed millions of people, massive transfer of funding from cities to the burgeoning suburbs, federal projects like interstate highway construction and the space program, generous investment in public schools, record union membership, high tax rates for corporations and the wealthy, good job benefits, and Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, which ensured financial stability in old age and medical crises...

"On the evidence of history, calling today's Republican Party and their Tea Party supporters 'conservative' is as absurd as calling supporters of civil rights and racial justice 'reactionary' because they invoke the values of the Reconstruction Era."

Which Side Are You On? New Language for a New Political Reality | Common Dreams

There is a profound difference between giving a person a Hand up from a Hand out. Nobody has a problem giving a person a hand up there is however a problem giving them a hand out.

Hmm, what is the problem?

 

[Bern80]

Anybody remember Archie and Edith?

"Everybody pulled his weight.
Didn't need no welfare state...
Those were the days!"

Archie Bunker, protagonist of the popular 1970s TV sitcom "All in the Family" and today's Tea Party movement seem to share a misconception of just how "conservative" the 1930s, 40s and 50s actually were.

Were those decades a time when hard-working Americans pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps?

"It's true that Americans worked hard during these years.

"But the bootstraps stuff is nonsense.

"The 30s through 50s were the time of the New Deal, low-cost loans from the Federal Housing Administration, the GI Bill, huge subsidies for defense contractors during the Cold War and other industries that employed millions of people, massive transfer of funding from cities to the burgeoning suburbs, federal projects like interstate highway construction and the space program, generous investment in public schools, record union membership, high tax rates for corporations and the wealthy, good job benefits, and Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, which ensured financial stability in old age and medical crises...

"On the evidence of history, calling today's Republican Party and their Tea Party supporters 'conservative' is as absurd as calling supporters of civil rights and racial justice 'reactionary' because they invoke the values of the Reconstruction Era."

Which Side Are You On? New Language for a New Political Reality | Common Dreams

There is a profound difference between giving a person a Hand up from a Hand out. Nobody has a problem giving a person a hand up there is however a problem giving them a hand out.

Hmm, what is the problem?

Anyway with a rudimentary understanding of human psychology (that you apparently don't have) should be able to answer that one for ya.

 

[shintao]

There is a profound difference between giving a person a Hand up from a Hand out. Nobody has a problem giving a person a hand up there is however a problem giving them a hand out.

Hmm, what is the problem?

Anyway with a rudimentary understanding of human psychology (that you apparently don't have) should be able to answer that one for ya.

LOL! My degree is Psychology, backed with 7 years of college courses & training. That doesn't answer the question, and unless your a schizophrenic character of robert, you are rather boring.

There will be a pumpkin wagon headed back to the village of idiots, coming by shortly. Be on it!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bern80]

Hmm, what is the problem?

Anyway with a rudimentary understanding of human psychology (that you apparently don't have) should be able to answer that one for ya.

LOL! My degree is Psychology, backed with 7 years of college courses & training. That doesn't answer the question, and unless your a schizophrenic character of robert, you are rather boring.

There will be a pumpkin wagon headed back to the village of idiots, coming by shortly. Be on it!!!!!!!!!

And apparently you learned nothing. Otherwise you would know behavior is taught and that if you teach someone they don't have to and there is no point to doing anything themselves if someone else will do it for them (hand out). THAT would be the answer to your question, 'what is the problem'. The problem is people simply doing things for others rather than teaching them to do things for themselves is that it makes the members of the society weaker.

 

[georgephillip]

Because the financial industry buys and sells the idiots in Washington the same way you and I buy newspapers.

EXACTLY! So why do you continue to vote for the very politicians that are so eager to write those regulatory protections for corporations??? One would think you would support those politicians that promote less regulations, no bailouts, etc. I suspect you vote for just opposite. Why?

Except for a couple of local and state races I haven't voted for a Republican OR a Democrat in decades.

Both parties derive most of their campaign funds from the richest 1% of the population.
The richest 1% depend heavily on FIRE sector investments.

I would suspect most politicians calling for less regulations on the FIRE sector without bail outs when the inevitable crash occurs are disingenuous, at best, and probably firmly committed to enhancing corporate control over society.

Personally, I think we would all be much freer if Republicans AND Democrats were FLUSHED by the hundreds from DC starting in 2012.