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agree with all you've said.The two arent remotely comparable. And no job requires you to give up rights to free speech away from the job place.When you are hired for a Job, you agree to terms of your employment, so you may not use racial or sexual speech.
Same applies to fraternities when you sign their contract to be a member.
If you want free speech don't agree to terms of employment or fraternity etc etc......
If you are in Job uniform or if you are shouting on a public space that your company won't hire black and state instead your company lynches black people, you would be fired and possibly sued for misrepresenting and defaming a companies reputation.
True...but again a job is a private institution
But they signed a membership agreement to the rules of conduct. They didn't have to join the fraternity, but once they agreed to present themselves as members and the code of conduct they volunteered to the terms.
But the fraternity is a private organization. SAE national as a private organization has every right to pull their charter. OU is a public institution. The rules are different. We'll see how it all works out, but I think there is an argument to be made that by expelling these assholes, OU may have violated their first amendment rights. We'll see. I am sure the courts will sort it out.
Now as stupid as I find their actions, I have to say that I hope we don't go further down the path of restricting speech. It's a dangerous, slippery slope, man
The two arent remotely comparable. And no job requires you to give up rights to free speech away from the job place.When you are hired for a Job, you agree to terms of your employment, so you may not use racial or sexual speech.
Same applies to fraternities when you sign their contract to be a member.
If you want free speech don't agree to terms of employment or fraternity etc etc......
If you are in Job uniform or if you are shouting on a public space that your company won't hire black and state instead your company lynches black people, you would be fired and possibly sued for misrepresenting and defaming a companies reputation.
True...but again a job is a private institution
But they signed a membership agreement to the rules of conduct. They didn't have to join the fraternity, but once they agreed to present themselves as members and the code of conduct they volunteered to the terms.
But the fraternity is a private organization. SAE national as a private organization has every right to pull their charter. OU is a public institution. The rules are different. We'll see how it all works out, but I think there is an argument to be made that by expelling these assholes, OU may have violated their first amendment rights. We'll see. I am sure the courts will sort it out.
Now as stupid as I find their actions, I have to say that I hope we don't go further down the path of restricting speech. It's a dangerous, slippery slope, man
That people do that does make it right. In the 1950s writers and actors were blacklisted for even the rumor of being communists. Was that OK?And no job requires you to give up rights to free speech away from the job place.
There are countless examples reported in the news of people getting fired for shit they post on twitter or facebook.
Jesus Christ man, pull your head out of your ass already.
So singing a song is now evidence of actual intent? You have trouble distinguishing fantasy from reality, dont you? And you see, as I said it would be, they may be sanctioned by the government for what they did. That is outrageous tyranny,I dont see where the guys said they wanted to lynch black people.No the kids made no false statements. That's garbage.The fraternity is a privte org. They can do what they want with members.
They did, they kicked them out for misrepresenting them.
So those kids made false statements publicly about the fraternity they belonged to.
You mean their fraternity would lynch black people? Is that True? I read the Fraternities rules and membership contract I didn't see it there anywhere, in fact they are not supposed to be discriminatory.
You don't see any violations, I think you just don't want to be honest.
The 10-second video filmed on Saturday and released by Unheard, a student organization at OU, appears to show members of the Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity chanting “there will never be a nig*** in SAE.” The chant continues, “you can hang them from a tree, but they’ll never sign with me.”
They violated their membership agreement I posted the membership form.
http://www.saerecord.net/files/docs/FraternityLaws.pdf
They misrepresented their fraternity and they got kicked out.
He said the university's legal staff was exploring whether the students who initiated and encouraged the chant may have violated Title VI of the Civil Rights Act, which prohibits racial discrimination.
http://www.ou.edu/content/studentlife/get_involved/student_organizations/register/jcr:content/contentpar/download/file.res/Model Constitution 2012.pdf
They werent criminals. They just got expelled. Stop being dramatic.agree with all you've said.The two arent remotely comparable. And no job requires you to give up rights to free speech away from the job place.
If you are in Job uniform or if you are shouting on a public space that your company won't hire black and state instead your company lynches black people, you would be fired and possibly sued for misrepresenting and defaming a companies reputation.
True...but again a job is a private institution
But they signed a membership agreement to the rules of conduct. They didn't have to join the fraternity, but once they agreed to present themselves as members and the code of conduct they volunteered to the terms.
But the fraternity is a private organization. SAE national as a private organization has every right to pull their charter. OU is a public institution. The rules are different. We'll see how it all works out, but I think there is an argument to be made that by expelling these assholes, OU may have violated their first amendment rights. We'll see. I am sure the courts will sort it out.
Now as stupid as I find their actions, I have to say that I hope we don't go further down the path of restricting speech. It's a dangerous, slippery slope, man
Were they dumb? Yes. Was what they said stupid? Yes. But criminalizing dumb and stupid is a very dangerous precedent. How soon until a private party where someone criticizes Obama leads to fines et?
Thats not a crime.The two arent remotely comparable. And no job requires you to give up rights to free speech away from the job place.
If you are in Job uniform or if you are shouting on a public space that your company won't hire black and state instead your company lynches black people, you would be fired and possibly sued for misrepresenting and defaming a companies reputation.
True...but again a job is a private institution
But they signed a membership agreement to the rules of conduct. They didn't have to join the fraternity, but once they agreed to present themselves as members and the code of conduct they volunteered to the terms.
But the fraternity is a private organization. SAE national as a private organization has every right to pull their charter. OU is a public institution. The rules are different. We'll see how it all works out, but I think there is an argument to be made that by expelling these assholes, OU may have violated their first amendment rights. We'll see. I am sure the courts will sort it out.
Now as stupid as I find their actions, I have to say that I hope we don't go further down the path of restricting speech. It's a dangerous, slippery slope, man
They broke their fraternity membership contract to
http://www.saerecord.net/files/docs/FraternityLaws.pdf
True...but again a job is a private institution
And what about the government worker that got fired for participating in the "black lives matter" protest that shut down Rt. 93 in Boston several weeks ago?
I'm sure you and Rabbi were all worked up in a lather over her right to free speech getting infringed like that.
OK, you went full retard. You've never held up to any kind of debate, always defaulting to stupid shit like this.
Bye bye
They didnt go to jail nor were they brought up on criminal charges.Thats not a crime.If you are in Job uniform or if you are shouting on a public space that your company won't hire black and state instead your company lynches black people, you would be fired and possibly sued for misrepresenting and defaming a companies reputation.
True...but again a job is a private institution
But they signed a membership agreement to the rules of conduct. They didn't have to join the fraternity, but once they agreed to present themselves as members and the code of conduct they volunteered to the terms.
But the fraternity is a private organization. SAE national as a private organization has every right to pull their charter. OU is a public institution. The rules are different. We'll see how it all works out, but I think there is an argument to be made that by expelling these assholes, OU may have violated their first amendment rights. We'll see. I am sure the courts will sort it out.
Now as stupid as I find their actions, I have to say that I hope we don't go further down the path of restricting speech. It's a dangerous, slippery slope, man
They broke their fraternity membership contract to
http://www.saerecord.net/files/docs/FraternityLaws.pdf
next.
OU is a government institutionSo the first amendment only applies in public settings when you say things the government likes. Got it.Government guarantees you free speech
Unless you say something they dont like at a government school, you are expelled.
The government can't pass a law or prosecute you for your speech
You can get expelled from a government school for what you say just the same as a private school
The first amendment applies to government prosecution....it does not mean there can be no consequences for your speech
So singing a song is now evidence of actual intent? You have trouble distinguishing fantasy from reality, dont you? And you see, as I said it would be, they may be sanctioned by the government for what they did. That is outrageous tyranny,I dont see where the guys said they wanted to lynch black people.No the kids made no false statements. That's garbage.They did, they kicked them out for misrepresenting them.
So those kids made false statements publicly about the fraternity they belonged to.
You mean their fraternity would lynch black people? Is that True? I read the Fraternities rules and membership contract I didn't see it there anywhere, in fact they are not supposed to be discriminatory.
You don't see any violations, I think you just don't want to be honest.
The 10-second video filmed on Saturday and released by Unheard, a student organization at OU, appears to show members of the Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity chanting “there will never be a nig*** in SAE.” The chant continues, “you can hang them from a tree, but they’ll never sign with me.”
They violated their membership agreement I posted the membership form.
http://www.saerecord.net/files/docs/FraternityLaws.pdf
They misrepresented their fraternity and they got kicked out.
He said the university's legal staff was exploring whether the students who initiated and encouraged the chant may have violated Title VI of the Civil Rights Act, which prohibits racial discrimination.
http://www.ou.edu/content/studentlife/get_involved/student_organizations/register/jcr:content/contentpar/download/file.res/Model Constitution 2012.pdf
As usual Billfold lies because she cannot separate truth from fiction. The protestor was not fired for protesting. She was fired for putting lives at risk.True...but again a job is a private institution
And what about the government worker that got fired for participating in the "black lives matter" protest that shut down Rt. 93 in Boston several weeks ago?
I'm sure you and Rabbi were all worked up in a lather over her right to free speech getting infringed like that.
I didn't see that. Was the guy charged with a crime for participating in shutting down Rt. 93? If so, then he was probably fired for criminal action and not because he was protesting.
agree with all you've said.
Were they dumb? Yes. Was what they said stupid? Yes. But criminalizing dumb and stupid is a very dangerous precedent. How soon until a private party where someone criticizes Obama leads to fines et?
agree with all you've said.The two arent remotely comparable. And no job requires you to give up rights to free speech away from the job place.
If you are in Job uniform or if you are shouting on a public space that your company won't hire black and state instead your company lynches black people, you would be fired and possibly sued for misrepresenting and defaming a companies reputation.
True...but again a job is a private institution
But they signed a membership agreement to the rules of conduct. They didn't have to join the fraternity, but once they agreed to present themselves as members and the code of conduct they volunteered to the terms.
But the fraternity is a private organization. SAE national as a private organization has every right to pull their charter. OU is a public institution. The rules are different. We'll see how it all works out, but I think there is an argument to be made that by expelling these assholes, OU may have violated their first amendment rights. We'll see. I am sure the courts will sort it out.
Now as stupid as I find their actions, I have to say that I hope we don't go further down the path of restricting speech. It's a dangerous, slippery slope, man
Were they dumb? Yes. Was what they said stupid? Yes. But criminalizing dumb and stupid is a very dangerous precedent. How soon until a private party where someone criticizes Obama leads to fines et?
How did they misrepresent the fraternity? That isnt even a crime.So singing a song is now evidence of actual intent? You have trouble distinguishing fantasy from reality, dont you? And you see, as I said it would be, they may be sanctioned by the government for what they did. That is outrageous tyranny,I dont see where the guys said they wanted to lynch black people.No the kids made no false statements. That's garbage.
You mean their fraternity would lynch black people? Is that True? I read the Fraternities rules and membership contract I didn't see it there anywhere, in fact they are not supposed to be discriminatory.
You don't see any violations, I think you just don't want to be honest.
The 10-second video filmed on Saturday and released by Unheard, a student organization at OU, appears to show members of the Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity chanting “there will never be a nig*** in SAE.” The chant continues, “you can hang them from a tree, but they’ll never sign with me.”
They violated their membership agreement I posted the membership form.
http://www.saerecord.net/files/docs/FraternityLaws.pdf
They misrepresented their fraternity and they got kicked out.
He said the university's legal staff was exploring whether the students who initiated and encouraged the chant may have violated Title VI of the Civil Rights Act, which prohibits racial discrimination.
http://www.ou.edu/content/studentlife/get_involved/student_organizations/register/jcr:content/contentpar/download/file.res/Model Constitution 2012.pdf
They were wearing the fraternity coat, on their way to the fraternity's founders day, and misrepresenting that fraternity.
You haven't had read any of the contracts so there's nothing more to say.
Title VI of the Civil Rights Act, which prohibits racial discrimination.
Or the national could have kicked the kids responsible out of the fraternity, the univeristy could have given them a strong tongue lashing and been done. Instead they just blamed the whole frat.agree with all you've said.If you are in Job uniform or if you are shouting on a public space that your company won't hire black and state instead your company lynches black people, you would be fired and possibly sued for misrepresenting and defaming a companies reputation.
True...but again a job is a private institution
But they signed a membership agreement to the rules of conduct. They didn't have to join the fraternity, but once they agreed to present themselves as members and the code of conduct they volunteered to the terms.
But the fraternity is a private organization. SAE national as a private organization has every right to pull their charter. OU is a public institution. The rules are different. We'll see how it all works out, but I think there is an argument to be made that by expelling these assholes, OU may have violated their first amendment rights. We'll see. I am sure the courts will sort it out.
Now as stupid as I find their actions, I have to say that I hope we don't go further down the path of restricting speech. It's a dangerous, slippery slope, man
Were they dumb? Yes. Was what they said stupid? Yes. But criminalizing dumb and stupid is a very dangerous precedent. How soon until a private party where someone criticizes Obama leads to fines et?
And that's exactly the problem. When you go through that door you are redefining lines. They can get redefined and redefined until it becomes criminal to speak against the government or just about anything. These kids are assholes, but the public can sort it out themselves. OU and SAE national probably didn't have to shut down the SAEs to make them go away. They would have been branded as a racist house and their recruiting would have probably suffered to the point where they could not maintain and would have died out by themselves.
How did they misrepresent the fraternity? That isnt even a crime.So singing a song is now evidence of actual intent? You have trouble distinguishing fantasy from reality, dont you? And you see, as I said it would be, they may be sanctioned by the government for what they did. That is outrageous tyranny,I dont see where the guys said they wanted to lynch black people.You mean their fraternity would lynch black people? Is that True? I read the Fraternities rules and membership contract I didn't see it there anywhere, in fact they are not supposed to be discriminatory.
You don't see any violations, I think you just don't want to be honest.
The 10-second video filmed on Saturday and released by Unheard, a student organization at OU, appears to show members of the Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity chanting “there will never be a nig*** in SAE.” The chant continues, “you can hang them from a tree, but they’ll never sign with me.”
They violated their membership agreement I posted the membership form.
http://www.saerecord.net/files/docs/FraternityLaws.pdf
They misrepresented their fraternity and they got kicked out.
He said the university's legal staff was exploring whether the students who initiated and encouraged the chant may have violated Title VI of the Civil Rights Act, which prohibits racial discrimination.
http://www.ou.edu/content/studentlife/get_involved/student_organizations/register/jcr:content/contentpar/download/file.res/Model Constitution 2012.pdf
They were wearing the fraternity coat, on their way to the fraternity's founders day, and misrepresenting that fraternity.
You haven't had read any of the contracts so there's nothing more to say.
Title VI of the Civil Rights Act, which prohibits racial discrimination.
No one has said the frat doesnt have that right. I specifically said they did. What part of that have you missed?http://www.ou.edu/content/studentlife/get_involved/student_organizations/register/jcr:content/contentpar/download/file.res/Model Constitution 2012.pdf
http://www.saerecord.net/files/docs/FraternityLaws.pdf
Again, I am not sure about being expelled from school. But being kicked out of the fraternity is most certainly the legal right of the fraternity.
For you to not acknowledge that much is pretty telling about you.
Or the national could have kicked the kids responsible out of the fraternity, the univeristy could have given them a strong tongue lashing and been done. Instead they just blamed the whole frat.agree with all you've said.True...but again a job is a private institution
But they signed a membership agreement to the rules of conduct. They didn't have to join the fraternity, but once they agreed to present themselves as members and the code of conduct they volunteered to the terms.
But the fraternity is a private organization. SAE national as a private organization has every right to pull their charter. OU is a public institution. The rules are different. We'll see how it all works out, but I think there is an argument to be made that by expelling these assholes, OU may have violated their first amendment rights. We'll see. I am sure the courts will sort it out.
Now as stupid as I find their actions, I have to say that I hope we don't go further down the path of restricting speech. It's a dangerous, slippery slope, man
Were they dumb? Yes. Was what they said stupid? Yes. But criminalizing dumb and stupid is a very dangerous precedent. How soon until a private party where someone criticizes Obama leads to fines et?
And that's exactly the problem. When you go through that door you are redefining lines. They can get redefined and redefined until it becomes criminal to speak against the government or just about anything. These kids are assholes, but the public can sort it out themselves. OU and SAE national probably didn't have to shut down the SAEs to make them go away. They would have been branded as a racist house and their recruiting would have probably suffered to the point where they could not maintain and would have died out by themselves.
Really the dean should have put them on "double secret probation."
