White man shoots innocent black teen....

[Ravi]

Democrats-Progressives-lefties have no problem using a dead person for their agendas..

look what they did with Gabby Gifford's...

a couple weeks ago their panties were in a bunch over some 30 year old law student being called a name..

It just NEVER ends with these people

I don't think this is a political agenda for many. Of course it is for some on both sides of the political spectrum. But, I'm finding in these threads discussing this case, that, for those interested in fact-finding, political leaning is irrelevant. Both lefties and righties are finding this law to be a horrible law because of such a tragic loss of life.

But, that's just my experience.

It's not so much the concept of the law, Si; it's more the way this particular statute is written combined with the rather unique circumstances of this case. I do have to say that I am getting a little tired of hearing Trayvon Martin referred to by some here as a "Child". This young man was the size of a typical adult male, AND had matters turned out differently, would have been tried as an ADULT if his conduct was found to amount to a felony. Just to set the record straight, there's a big difference, physically and emotionally between a 13-15 year old boy (which Martin appears to be in most of the photos shown in the media), and a 17 year old young man, which a far less commonly displayed and much more current photo of Martin shows. I've seen quite enough twisting, omission, and manipulation of facts, for the sole purpose of inciting emotionalism in this case; it's becoming uncomfortably close to LYING, for the purpose of inciting a lynch mob. If that line has not been crossed already, some people are skating the razor-thin edge of it. I wonder if some people here have given any serious thought to what might happen, if as a result of this, someone were to gun down Zimmerman on the street, or a mob were to lynch him. The potential ramifications of THAT, would make THIS, tragic as it is, look like a tempest in a teapot.

What picture are you talking about? The one in the hoodie looks like a seventeen year old, the one in the football jersey looks like a younger child.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Ravi: Self Appointed Tribune of the Black Man in America

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman

A TV station report (as attributed) is not proof. But if it pans out, wouldn't this have some bearing on whether there is something of a rush to judgment under way?

The police report indicates as much as well. Which is likely why Zimmerman was detained, questioned, and released.

the media reported that a key witness being used to indict Zimmerman signed a statement supporting Zimmerman's account. This will not affect the myopic views of a MarcATL or a Ravi.

Altered states do not recognize reality

 

[Ravi]

Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman

A TV station report (as attributed) is not proof. But if it pans out, wouldn't this have some bearing on whether there is something of a rush to judgment under way?

The police report indicates as much as well. Which is likely why Zimmerman was detained, questioned, and released.

But other witnesses contradict him.

Anderson Cooper Interviews Witnesses To Trayvon Martin Shooting | Mediaite

Obviously, someone is wrong.

 

[uptownlivin90]

Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman

A TV station report (as attributed) is not proof. But if it pans out, wouldn't this have some bearing on whether there is something of a rush to judgment under way?

I'm not sure what the report says. I saw this article today.

If the report is quoted correctly in the article, it may absolutely DESTROY the case against Zimmerman (even though the case was pretty weak in the first place). The grand jury will not even indict him.

The article itself is bias. It says that the witness claims "Martin attacked Zimmerman" and the witness saw it all. From what it quotes it seems like the witness came outside DURING the scuffle... and would not be able to tell us who actually started it, and Zimmy would have to say Trayvon started it (which he did).

At this point though, because of this testimony, it doesn't matter who threw the first punch, or who made the confrontation physical, the witness saw Zimmerman on the ground. The fact is yes Zimmy was an idiot for following Trayvon, yes Trayvon may have thought he was in danger because there was a random man following him. Trayvon may have acted on this or Zimmy may have attacked Trayvon to keep him from getting away (or all black males ARE actually mindless thugs and Trayvon just got bored and wanted to rob some random hispanic guy on his way back from 7-eleven...IDK). Zimmy may have started a fight and bit off more then he could chew. BUT Trayvon can't tell his side because he's dead, and a dead man can't testify in court... so without actual evidence this case may go down with this new testimony, and it should. The law is the law for a reason, to protect the innocent, does it make it a perfect system? No. But humanity is flawed and limited so any system we created will be as well. Unfortunetly the Jury can'y be omnipresent so they wouldn't be able to know exactly what happened.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

But one man's testimony could be key for the police.

"The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.

His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.

"When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," John said.

Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman

from police report - not from Ravi's hate infected brain:

"Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD. While the SFD was attending to Zimmerman, I over heard[sic] him state "I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me."

At no point did I question Zimmerman about the incident that had taken place. Once Zimmerman was cleared by the SFD, he was transported to the Sanford Police Department."

--

the young man starts a verbal confrontation. Zimmerman knows the police are on the way. So who would have started a physical confrontation?

 

[Ravi]

Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman

A TV station report (as attributed) is not proof. But if it pans out, wouldn't this have some bearing on whether there is something of a rush to judgment under way?

I'm not sure what the report says. I saw this article today.

If the report is quoted correctly in the article, it may absolutely DESTROY the case against Zimmerman (even though the case was pretty weak in the first place). The grand jury will not even indict him.

The article itself is bias. It says that the witness claims "Martin attacked Zimmerman" and the witness saw it all. From what it quotes it seems like the witness came outside DURING the scuffle... and would not be able to tell us who actually started it, and Zimmy would have to say Trayvon started it (which he did).

At this point though, because of this testimony, it doesn't matter who threw the first punch, or who made the confrontation physical, the witness saw Zimmerman on the ground. The fact is yes Zimmy was an idiot for following Trayvon, yes Trayvon may have thought he was in danger because there was a random man following him. Trayvon may have acted on this or Zimmy may have attacked Trayvon to keep him from getting away (or all black males ARE actually mindless thugs and Trayvon just got bored and wanted to rob some random hispanic guy on his way back from 7-eleven...IDK). Zimmy may have started a fight and bit off more then he could chew. BUT Trayvon can't tell his side because he's dead, and a dead man can't testify in court... so without actual evidence this case may go down with this new testimony, and it should. The law is the law for a reason, to protect the innocent, does it make it a perfect system? No. But humanity is flawed and limited so any system we created will be as well. Unfortunetly the Jury can'y be omnipresent so they wouldn't be able to know exactly what happened.

You are right with your point that this witnesses account doesn't show who started it.

Regardless, two witnesses contradict his account:

“We were in the kitchen, with the window open and the blinds pulled. So we had complete view from outside,” Cutcher explained.

Cooper asked her what was the first thing she saw.

“By that time, you hear like a shot — like some other noise,” Lamilla described.

“You heard the gunshot?” Cooper interjected.

“Yeah, I run away from my backyard and when I just get into the point of my — like my screen, it stopped me, I look at the person on his knees on top of a body,” Lamilla elaborated.

“So you saw Mr. Zimmerman on top of Trayvon Martin?” Cooper questioned.

“Trayvon, exactly,” Lamilla said.

“When you say on top of, how so?” the CNN anchor pressed.

“Straddling him,” Cutcher replied.

“His legs were straddling him?” Cooper followed up.

“One on each side, on his knees, with his hands on his back. I immediately thought, okay, obviously if it’s the shooter, he would have ran,” Cutcher detailed. “I thought he’s holding the wound, helping the guy taking a pulse, making sure he’s okay. When she called to him three times, everything okay, what’s going on? Each time he looked back, didn’t say anything and then the third time he finally said, ‘just call the police.’”

Anderson Cooper Interviews Witnesses To Trayvon Martin Shooting | Mediaite

 

[Peach]

But one man's testimony could be key for the police.

"The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.

His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.

"When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," John said.

Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman

from police report - not from Ravi's hate infected brain:

"Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD. While the SFD was attending to Zimmerman, I over heard[sic] him state "I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me."

At no point did I question Zimmerman about the incident that had taken place. Once Zimmerman was cleared by the SFD, he was transported to the Sanford Police Department."

--

the young man starts a verbal confrontation. Zimmerman knows the police are on the way. So who would have started a physical confrontation?

"Why are you following me" is a verbal confrontation? The victim was on his cell phone HIDING from Zimmerman:

"He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man," Martin's friend said. "I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run, but he said he was not going to run."

Eventually, he would run, said the girl, thinking that he'd managed to escape. But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin.

"Trayvon said, 'What are you following me for,' and the man said, 'What are you doing here.' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again, and he didn't answer the phone."

The line went dead. Besides screams heard on 911 calls that night as Martin and Zimmerman scuffled, those were the last words he said.

(EMPHASIS ADDED)

Trayvon Martin Arrest Now After ABC Reveals Crucial Phone Call - ABC News

 

[The Gadfly]

I don't think this is a political agenda for many. Of course it is for some on both sides of the political spectrum. But, I'm finding in these threads discussing this case, that, for those interested in fact-finding, political leaning is irrelevant. Both lefties and righties are finding this law to be a horrible law because of such a tragic loss of life.

But, that's just my experience.

It's not so much the concept of the law, Si; it's more the way this particular statute is written combined with the rather unique circumstances of this case. I do have to say that I am getting a little tired of hearing Trayvon Martin referred to by some here as a "Child". This young man was the size of a typical adult male, AND had matters turned out differently, would have been tried as an ADULT if his conduct was found to amount to a felony. Just to set the record straight, there's a big difference, physically and emotionally between a 13-15 year old boy (which Martin appears to be in most of the photos shown in the media), and a 17 year old young man, which a far less commonly displayed and much more current photo of Martin shows. I've seen quite enough twisting, omission, and manipulation of facts, for the sole purpose of inciting emotionalism in this case; it's becoming uncomfortably close to LYING, for the purpose of inciting a lynch mob. If that line has not been crossed already, some people are skating the razor-thin edge of it. I wonder if some people here have given any serious thought to what might happen, if as a result of this, someone were to gun down Zimmerman on the street, or a mob were to lynch him. The potential ramifications of THAT, would make THIS, tragic as it is, look like a tempest in a teapot.

What picture are you talking about? The one in the hoodie looks like a seventeen year old, the one in the football jersey looks like a younger child.

The one in the red/dark red shirt with "Hollister" on it that's obviously several years old, but has been all over the national news and the internet.

 

[Ravi]

It's not so much the concept of the law, Si; it's more the way this particular statute is written combined with the rather unique circumstances of this case. I do have to say that I am getting a little tired of hearing Trayvon Martin referred to by some here as a "Child". This young man was the size of a typical adult male, AND had matters turned out differently, would have been tried as an ADULT if his conduct was found to amount to a felony. Just to set the record straight, there's a big difference, physically and emotionally between a 13-15 year old boy (which Martin appears to be in most of the photos shown in the media), and a 17 year old young man, which a far less commonly displayed and much more current photo of Martin shows. I've seen quite enough twisting, omission, and manipulation of facts, for the sole purpose of inciting emotionalism in this case; it's becoming uncomfortably close to LYING, for the purpose of inciting a lynch mob. If that line has not been crossed already, some people are skating the razor-thin edge of it. I wonder if some people here have given any serious thought to what might happen, if as a result of this, someone were to gun down Zimmerman on the street, or a mob were to lynch him. The potential ramifications of THAT, would make THIS, tragic as it is, look like a tempest in a teapot.

What picture are you talking about? The one in the hoodie looks like a seventeen year old, the one in the football jersey looks like a younger child.

The one in the red/dark red shirt with "Hollister" on it that's obviously several years old, but has been all over the national news and the internet.

No, which is the current one you're talking about that makes him look like a young man? The hoodie picture? That makes him look like a teen.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Eventually, he would run, said the girl, thinking that he'd managed to escape. But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin.

Not really.

There isn't a place to corner him where it went down.

 

[The Gadfly]

But one man's testimony could be key for the police.

"The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.

His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.

"When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," John said.

Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman

from police report - not from Ravi's hate infected brain:

"Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD. While the SFD was attending to Zimmerman, I over heard[sic] him state "I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me."

At no point did I question Zimmerman about the incident that had taken place. Once Zimmerman was cleared by the SFD, he was transported to the Sanford Police Department."

--

the young man starts a verbal confrontation. Zimmerman knows the police are on the way. So who would have started a physical confrontation?

"Why are you following me" is a verbal confrontation? The victim was on his cell phone HIDING from Zimmerman:

"He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man," Martin's friend said. "I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run, but he said he was not going to run."

Eventually, he would run, said the girl, thinking that he'd managed to escape. But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin.

"Trayvon said, 'What are you following me for,' and the man said, 'What are you doing here.' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again, and he didn't answer the phone."

The line went dead. Besides screams heard on 911 calls that night as Martin and Zimmerman scuffled, those were the last words he said.

(EMPHASIS ADDED)

Trayvon Martin Arrest Now After ABC Reveals Crucial Phone Call - ABC News

How can you "hear somebody pushing" over a cell phone, Peach? What "sound" does a push or a shove make, exactly? Is it just possible that when he was asked "What are you doing here?" Martin dropped the phone and struck Zimmerman?

 

[uptownlivin90]

Eventually, he would run, said the girl, thinking that he'd managed to escape. But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin.

Not really.

There isn't a place to corner him where it went down.

That could very well be a figure of speech.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Eventually, he would run, said the girl, thinking that he'd managed to escape. But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin.

Not really.

There isn't a place to corner him where it went down.

That could very well be a figure of speech.

No it is critical.

If he was cornered.

But he couldn't have been.

He ran.

And he stopped and made contact.

 

[The Gadfly]

What picture are you talking about? The one in the hoodie looks like a seventeen year old, the one in the football jersey looks like a younger child.

The one in the red/dark red shirt with "Hollister" on it that's obviously several years old, but has been all over the national news and the internet.

No, which is the current one you're talking about that makes him look like a young man? The hoodie picture? That makes him look like a teen.

Yu know perfectly well what I mean Ravi; the older picture makes him look like a younger teen (about the age I stated; which he probably was, when it was taken). The one in the hoodie shows an older teen (if I did not know who it was, I'd say he looks to be in the 17-19 age group in that one; a teen, but an older teen). However, it's been the pictures of the MUCH younger Trayvon that have been widely circulated, and I believe that's been done with intent to misrepresent those images as current. A 17 year old IS a young man; old enough to join the military until recently, old enough to be tried as an adult, within one year of being eligible to vote or serve on a jury, or be emancipated, old enough to be of average adult size, and old enough to marry in many states. A 17 year old may be legally a minor in some respects, but is definitely not "a child" in the sense that a 13 year old is.

 

[Ravi]

The one in the red/dark red shirt with "Hollister" on it that's obviously several years old, but has been all over the national news and the internet.

No, which is the current one you're talking about that makes him look like a young man? The hoodie picture? That makes him look like a teen.

Yu know perfectly well what I mean Ravi; the older picture makes him look like a younger teen (about the age I stated; which he probably was, when it was taken). The one in the hoodie shows an older teen (if I did not know who it was, I'd say he looks to be in the 17-19 age group in that one; a teen, but an older teen). However, it's been the pictures of the MUCH younger Trayvon that have been widely circulated, and I believe that's been done with intent to misrepresent those images as current. A 17 year old IS a young man; old enough to join the military until recently, old enough to be tried as an adult, within one year of being eligible to vote or serve on a jury, or be emancipated, old enough to be of average adult size, and old enough to marry in many states. A 17 year old may be legally a minor in some respects, but is definitely not "a child" in the sense that a 13 year old is.

And yet the picture of him in the hoodie is the one all the people at the rallies are wearing....so why you're saying it isn't widely circulated is a mystery.

And I have to laugh here that some on this board have seen that picture of him in his football jersey, an obviously underweight KID, and concluded that he's a hulking football player.

 

[uptownlivin90]

Not really.

There isn't a place to corner him where it went down.

That could very well be a figure of speech.

No it is critical.

If he was cornered.

But he couldn't have been.

He ran.

And he stopped and made contact.

He stopped and confronted the man. He asked him a question.

We don't know who initiated physical contact. Nice try though.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

That could very well be a figure of speech.

No it is critical.

If he was cornered.

But he couldn't have been.

He ran.

And he stopped and made contact.

He stopped and confronted the man. He asked him a question.

We don't know who initiated physical contact. Nice try though.

Trayvon did initial verbal confrontation....

keeper for the Dante files

and Occam's razor

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

And yet the picture of him in the hoodie is the one all the people at the rallies are wearing....so why you're saying it isn't widely circulated is a mystery.

And I have to laugh here that some on this board have seen that picture of him in his football jersey, an obviously underweight KID, and concluded that he's a hulking football player.

Ravi continues his inanities.

By bdc_dante at 2012-03-23

 

[Ariux]

How can you "hear somebody pushing" over a cell phone, Peach? What "sound" does a push or a shove make, exactly? Is it just possible that when he was asked "What are you doing here?" Martin dropped the phone and struck Zimmerman?

Regarding what the black's female said, given that she wasn't there and that she wouldn't say anything that would reflect badly on her black, her statement isn't worth piss.

When she says the black asked Zimmerman if he were following him, does she know if the black approached Zimmerman to ask this? Does she say or know how far away Zimmerman was when the black asked? If she thinks they were next to each other, given that she thinks Zimmerman knocked down the black, why didn't she say anything about how they came in such close proximity? I mean, if I were a scared black and a white man came up to me, I'd say "The f-f-fucking cracker is walking over to me... I'm going to fuck him up [bravado for his bitch]." (You'll have to do the Ebonics translation yourself.)