Who are the Israelis?

[rylah]

Rabbi Yosef Messas | Uncompromising Zionism in North Africa​

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Rabbi Yosef Messas | Zionism in 18th century Morocco - Part 2​

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[Sherlock Holmes]

Being ignorant is one thing, but taking pride in ignorance is another.

Modern- Zionism emerged in mid 19th century Morocco,
with Jewish leaders such as Rabbi Hayyim ben-Attar,
and through his grandson Rabbi Yehudah Bibas,
all the way to Herzl's grandfather.

Do you think you know anything
about the history and this war?

Judah Bibas - Proto-Zionist of Hebron

Rabbi Bibas was a pillar of the Hebron community and a pioneer in the repatriation of Jews in Israel.

en.hebron.org.il

Even if we accept the claim "Modern- Zionism emerged in mid 19th century Morocco" - which I do not, that does not support your earlier claim "...about Jewish organization to re-constitute independence in the land prior to modern Zionism" does it? If Zionism began in Morocco then it didn't begin in Palestine which is what I've been telling you for days now.

Zionism did not emerge from the Jewish community in Palestine, it reflects the desires of a few Jews living OUTSIDE of Palestine, not Jewish communities already dwelling in Palestine for centuries. Those Jew did not seek to form a nationalist Jewish state with a Jewish government.

You cannot decouple Zionism and sentimental aspirations to relocate to Palestine from the history of Jews in Europe and beyond nor can you characterize Zionism as being a reaction to purported Arab antisemitism and persecution.

You've yet to explain the obvious flaw here too, why would a people suffering persecution and antisemitism in Europe choose to move to Palestine where (you claim) Jews were experiencing persecution and antisemitism?

This is all propaganda, part of the Zionist lie that Arabs/Palestinians are the historic enemy of Jews and that long suffering Israel is a victim of this to this day. The truth is that the colonial powers in cahoots with nationalist Jews living mainly outside of Palestine, planned to manufacture a fake Jewish country having a Jewish government on already occupied land and ethnically cleanse those who were already dwelling there and name it "Israel".

In so doing they also made bitter enemies of those they ethnically cleansed as well as neighboring states. Israel has magnified antisemitism a million fold by doing what they did and are doing today and it is beyond arrogant to perpetually blame this on everyone but themselves.

Antisemitism is unjustified and irrational hatred of Jews, so there's nothing antisemitic about today's Palestinian and Arab hostility because their hatred of Zionist Israel it is both justified and rational nothing to do with antisemitism at all.

After the fall of the Ottomans such a hair brained scheme became feasible.

 

[rylah]

Even if we accept the claim "Modern- Zionism emerged in mid 19th century Morocco" - which I do not, that does not support your earlier claim "...about Jewish organization to re-constitute independence in the land prior to modern Zionism" does it? If Zionism began in Morocco then it didn't begin in Palestine which is what I've been telling you for days now.

Zionism did not emerge from the Jewish community in Palestine, it reflects the desires of Jews living OUTSIDE of Palestine, not Jewish communities already dwelling in Palestine for centuries. Those Jew did not seek to form a nationalist Jewish state with a Jewish government.

You cannot decouple Zionism and aspirations to relocate to Palestine from the history of Jews in Europe and beyond nor can you characterize Zionism as being a reaction to purported Arab antisemitism and persecution.

You've yet to explain the obvious flaw here too, why would a people suffering persecution in Europe choose to move to Palestine where (you claim) Jews were experiencing persecution and antisemitism?

This is all propaganda, part of the Zionist lie that Arabs/Palestinians are the historic enemy of Jews and that Israel is a victim of this to this day. The truth is that the colonial powers in cahoots with nationalist Jews living mainly outside of Palestine, planned to manufacture a fake Jewish country on already occupied land and ethnically cleanse those who were already dwelling there and name it "Israel".

After the fall of the Ottomans such a hair brained scheme became feasible.

Contradicts nothing.

There were several attempts to re-constitute Jewish sovereignty,
prior to modern Zionism of the late 19th century, mainly the Galilee.

From Nahmanides, and Dona Nasi rebuilding Tiberias,
to the Farhi brothers taking over Akko from the Turks,
and the Damascus affair following Arab pogroms
with the expulsion from the 4 holy cities -
all essentially initiated modern Zionism,
it was the local Jewish community.

However it's always fascinating how Edward Said's clones
bring up the Holocaust, and the Inquisition to brag
about their "egalitarian tolerance"...

The Gadol of Gaza: Rabbi Yisrael Najara – World Mizrachi

Odelia Glausiusz

mizrachi.org

 

[rylah]

Those words do have different meanings though and pretending they all mean "kill all Jews" isn't something I can condone if we're being honest here. The information I have found (and shared) so far shows two translations "exterminate" and "eliminate" I have no idea which is closer to the Arabic as written in the Egyptian newspaper and until I do, I cannot truly perceive the meaning.

You speak as if this were some kind of war of liberation of Palestinian Jews under a Muslim yoke but we both know that was not the case. Jews in Palestine prior to Zionism never collectively organized with a view to nationalism. The vast majority had never even heard of Zionism and most of those who had wanted nothing to do with it.

Zionism emerged among European secular Jews, motivated by antisemitism in Europe not because of some perceived persecution of Jews by Arabs in Palestine. Zionism with British support turned its attention to Palestine, it was an external foreign ideology that eventually became imposed upon all Jews in Palestine, as you (should) know Zionist organizations in Palestine during the 1920s and 1930s even persecuted non-Zionist Jews, if you want to see the evidence just ask.

So there's no evidence for the claim of Arabs seeking to "eliminate" Jews in any sense until after Zionism was imported and began to mutate in Palestine and develop into the radical nationalism that has come to characterize it.

Also think on this, if there was a basis to the claim, if the "Arabs" had treated Jews in the way you imply, then why would Jews seek to move there en-masse and have done so multiple times? why escape the vicious Nazis who now stood defeated and and run into the hand of the vicious Arabs? why escape Germany after the death of the Third Reich and move to a region where one is literally surrounded by Muslims? It doesn't make any sense because there's no truth to it.

Jews did not move to Palestine because of some attraction to Zionist ideology, they moved there to escape persecution in Europe as they had done many times before in the past.

Arab hostility was hostility to an imported fanatical Jewish nationalism (which records show, even mirrored aspects of Nazism) not Jews, just as the hostility toward the Third Reich was not hostility to Germans.



Source: Wikipedia

and



Source: Wikipedia

See? it is largely a by-product of Christianity in Europe, not Islam in the Middle East. Perversely Zionists now call Germany a "friend" yet that nation was the location of arguably the greatest mass extermination campaign in recorded history.

Most Israelis are refugees from MENA.

Sheikh Jarrah was built by people
coming by foot from Yemen
and Iraq, Arabs took over
only in 1948 more than
half a century later.

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