Who are the real traitors?

[Theowl32]

Nixon? He got caught spying on like five democrats. You pathetic hypocrites reaction to that...........


Hence, our liberties being ripped away.

I'll reply to these two parts. Can't be bothered with the rest.

Yes, Nixon got caught, he got put up for impeachment and he resigned.
The last president forced out of office by someone other than the electorate. History sees that. History judges that.
I don't know how history will judge Obama. Probably as a run of the mill president who made his two terms, didn't do anything seriously wrong, struggled with the recession. That's about it. Oh, and the first black president is what he'll be known as.

Bush will be the guy who went to wars and caused a recession.

Clinton will be the guy who liked the ladies.

Bush senior will be the guy who became president because he was VP and that's about it.

If you want to claim that Obama will be seen as the most corrupt, you're going to have to make a good argument, and I've said this before, possibly to you, i don't remember, and it simply hasn't even been argued, let alone done well.


As for liberties being ripped away. They are. By who? By the two parties who have a monopoly over the US.

And what's your response to this? "It's the dems' fault", and the dems' response is "it's the reps' fault"

Great, it's all a game. It's BOTH THEIR FAULT.

How again did Bush "cause" a recession? This ought to be good. \

Lets see. The last time republicans had majority power, the unemployment rate was 4.6 percent.

That was at the end of 2006. Then Pelosi and the democrats took over the HOUSE AND SENATE.

What happened after that? What happened AFTER the democrats took over? Go ahead, let us know. Your version of history is being told by an agenda driven media, which makes you woefully misinformed.

You think Bush caused the housing bubble, and that is totally untrue. Bush had NOTHING to do with the deregulation. You obviously have no idea that Clinton repealed Glass Steagall do you? Why am I asking. You have no clue what that is, nor do you care.

You simply have your little boogey men. Bush and Cheney. Regardless of the facts in regards to the facts about WMDs and who actually propagated the existence of those. Who signed the Iraq Liberation Act for WMDs, and who also voted for the war.

You also mention that TWO wars were started by Bush. Perhaps you did not get the memo. You are apparently a truther. You see, on September 11th 2001 this country was attacked by terrorists. The country, including all democrats, were unanimous in going to war with the Taliban.

Not sure if you knew that or not.

Here is a recommendation. Get all of the facts when you choose to debate politics with me.

 

[Mojo2]

Are they those who believe the federal government has overwhelming authority, or those who believe the only way to save America is to burn the government to the ground? Or are they those who don't care and are satisfied so long as they can play video games and have ready access to social media?
Personally, the traitors are those who justify a government eager to become a tyranny by manipulating the Constitution to justify them breaking it.

This is meaningless gibberish.

No one is a ‘traitor.’

The traitor is in the Oval Office and those supporting him and those who defend his actions and encourage brain dead sheeple to go along with their bullshit.

 

[frigidweirdo]

How again did Bush "cause" a recession? This ought to be good. \

Why not just write "come on, let's fight" instead of this?

Lets see. The last time republicans had majority power, the unemployment rate was 4.6 percent.

That was at the end of 2006. Then Pelosi and the democrats took over the HOUSE AND SENATE.

What happened after that? What happened AFTER the democrats took over? Go ahead, let us know. Your version of history is being told by an agenda driven media, which makes you woefully misinformed.

You think Bush caused the housing bubble, and that is totally untrue. Bush had NOTHING to do with the deregulation. You obviously have no idea that Clinton repealed Glass Steagall do you? Why am I asking. You have no clue what that is, nor do you care.

You simply have your little boogey men. Bush and Cheney. Regardless of the facts in regards to the facts about WMDs and who actually propagated the existence of those. Who signed the Iraq Liberation Act for WMDs, and who also voted for the war.

You also mention that TWO wars were started by Bush. Perhaps you did not get the memo. You are apparently a truther. You see, on September 11th 2001 this country was attacked by terrorists. The country, including all democrats, were unanimous in going to war with the Taliban.

Not sure if you knew that or not.

Here is a recommendation. Get all of the facts when you choose to debate politics with me.

But then you want ALL the facts. Have you used all the facts to try and show that it was the democrats and not the republicans that caused the recession? Really?

You've said 2 things. One, the Democrats controlled congress and Clinton deregulated the housing market.

What I'd say is that the recession wasn't caused just by one person. The recession was inevitable. What wasn't inevitable about the recession was the severity of it.

Clinton, Republicans agree to deregulation of US financial system | Piggington's Econo-Almanac | San Diego Housing Market News and Analysis

"Clinton, Republicans agree to deregulation of US financial system"

This probably sums up the whole thing in one go.

It wasn't one person, it was BOTH PARTIES that helped cause all the problems. Are these in your facts?

 

[Theowl32]

How again did Bush "cause" a recession? This ought to be good. \

Why not just write "come on, let's fight" instead of this?

Lets see. The last time republicans had majority power, the unemployment rate was 4.6 percent.

That was at the end of 2006. Then Pelosi and the democrats took over the HOUSE AND SENATE.

What happened after that? What happened AFTER the democrats took over? Go ahead, let us know. Your version of history is being told by an agenda driven media, which makes you woefully misinformed.

You think Bush caused the housing bubble, and that is totally untrue. Bush had NOTHING to do with the deregulation. You obviously have no idea that Clinton repealed Glass Steagall do you? Why am I asking. You have no clue what that is, nor do you care.

You simply have your little boogey men. Bush and Cheney. Regardless of the facts in regards to the facts about WMDs and who actually propagated the existence of those. Who signed the Iraq Liberation Act for WMDs, and who also voted for the war.

You also mention that TWO wars were started by Bush. Perhaps you did not get the memo. You are apparently a truther. You see, on September 11th 2001 this country was attacked by terrorists. The country, including all democrats, were unanimous in going to war with the Taliban.

Not sure if you knew that or not.

Here is a recommendation. Get all of the facts when you choose to debate politics with me.

But then you want ALL the facts. Have you used all the facts to try and show that it was the democrats and not the republicans that caused the recession? Really?

You've said 2 things. One, the Democrats controlled congress and Clinton deregulated the housing market.

What I'd say is that the recession wasn't caused just by one person. The recession was inevitable. What wasn't inevitable about the recession was the severity of it.

Clinton, Republicans agree to deregulation of US financial system | Piggington's Econo-Almanac | San Diego Housing Market News and Analysis

"Clinton, Republicans agree to deregulation of US financial system"

This probably sums up the whole thing in one go.

It wasn't one person, it was BOTH PARTIES that helped cause all the problems. Are these in your facts?

Where the hell did I say the democrats controlled congress under Clinton? Republicans had majority of the power from 1994-2006.

You put all of the blame of the recession on Bush and his policies. That was not true.

Yes, both parties contributed, however, the facts are the facts. Republicans did by and large control Clinton's spending the 90s. They tried to pass a universal healthcare. It did not work.

The fact is the unemployment rate in 2006 was 4.6 percent. The media harped on the high gas prices daily. They hardly ever mentioned the low unemployment rate. Just...crony capitalism with Bush and oil companies.

Hence the democrats took over power in 2007. The democrats have had majority power since. Including a super majority in 2009.

Meanwhile that same press that harped on the high gas prices in 2006 did not say shit about the fact that the gas prices were highest in history in 2012. No, in fact they boasted about the false unemployment numbers "dropping" to 7.8 percent in October. Get that? The same press that did not say shit about 4.6 percent in 2006, bragged about the false 7.8 number in 2012.

You ever take the time to wonder why you have such a warped perspective?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Where the hell did I say the democrats controlled congress under Clinton? Republicans had majority of the power from 1994-2006.

You put all of the blame of the recession on Bush and his policies. That was not true.

Yes, both parties contributed, however, the facts are the facts. Republicans did by and large control Clinton's spending the 90s. They tried to pass a universal healthcare. It did not work.

The fact is the unemployment rate in 2006 was 4.6 percent. The media harped on the high gas prices daily. They hardly ever mentioned the low unemployment rate. Just...crony capitalism with Bush and oil companies.

Hence the democrats took over power in 2007. The democrats have had majority power since. Including a super majority in 2009.

Meanwhile that same press that harped on the high gas prices in 2006 did not say shit about the fact that the gas prices were highest in history in 2012. No, in fact they boasted about the false unemployment numbers "dropping" to 7.8 percent in October. Get that? The same press that did not say shit about 4.6 percent in 2006, bragged about the false 7.8 number in 2012.

You ever take the time to wonder why you have such a warped perspective?

Should I make my point again? You seem to ignore the point and just want to fight over what you are comfortable with.

BOTH PARTIES ARE CORRUPT.
BOTH PARTIES ARE CAUSING PROBLEMS.

Got it yet?

 

[PoliticalChic]

"Constitutional" Militia?

The Constitutional Militia is under the control of the United States Congress.

The "Militia" that went to Nevada and put women and children in front of them while they were training their sniper rifles and military assault weapons on duly appointed agents of the federal government were terrorists.

Today, May 8th......anniversary of the Second Militia Act of 1792, setting forth standards for the May 2 Act, including

a] each and every free able-bodied white male citizen of age 18 and under age 45…

b] provide himself with a good musket,…bayonet and belt,… not less than twenty four cartridges.;

c] exempting all elected officials and employees of the government.




"The first Act, passed May 2, 1792, provided for the authority of the president to call out the militias of the several states, "whenever the United States shall be invaded, or be in imminent danger of invasion from any foreign nation or Indian tribe."
Militia Acts of 1792 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Theowl32]

Where the hell did I say the democrats controlled congress under Clinton? Republicans had majority of the power from 1994-2006.

You put all of the blame of the recession on Bush and his policies. That was not true.

Yes, both parties contributed, however, the facts are the facts. Republicans did by and large control Clinton's spending the 90s. They tried to pass a universal healthcare. It did not work.

The fact is the unemployment rate in 2006 was 4.6 percent. The media harped on the high gas prices daily. They hardly ever mentioned the low unemployment rate. Just...crony capitalism with Bush and oil companies.

Hence the democrats took over power in 2007. The democrats have had majority power since. Including a super majority in 2009.

Meanwhile that same press that harped on the high gas prices in 2006 did not say shit about the fact that the gas prices were highest in history in 2012. No, in fact they boasted about the false unemployment numbers "dropping" to 7.8 percent in October. Get that? The same press that did not say shit about 4.6 percent in 2006, bragged about the false 7.8 number in 2012.

You ever take the time to wonder why you have such a warped perspective?

Should I make my point again? You seem to ignore the point and just want to fight over what you are comfortable with.

BOTH PARTIES ARE CORRUPT.
BOTH PARTIES ARE CAUSING PROBLEMS.

Got it yet?

Not sure I see many liberals holding Clinton to account for the deregulations or the economic problems. If you see many, cut, paste and post please. Thanks.

Want me to list in detail the 17 warnings from the Bush administration in regards to the housing bubble?

Not sure why you were thanked in this post from someone who blames Bush for everything. He even still thinks it was Bush that lied about wmds. Can you believe that?

Anyway, back to the 17 warnings....

Briefing Room | The White House

Speaker Pelosi failed to mention was that President Bush warned the Democratic Congress 17 times in 2008 alone about the systemic consequences of financial turmoil at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and also put forward thoughtful plans to reduce the risk that either Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac would encounter such difficulties.

Unfortunately, these warnings went unheeded, as the President’s repeated attempts to reform the supervision of these entities were thwarted by the legislative maneuvering of those who emphatically denied there were problems.

The White House released this list of attempts by President Bush to reform Freddie Mae and Freddie Mac since he took office in 2001.
Unfortunately, Congress did not act on the president’s warnings:

** 2001

April: The Administration’s FY02 budget declares that the size of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is “a potential problem,” because “financial trouble of a large GSE could cause strong repercussions in financial markets, affecting Federally insured entities and economic activity.”

** 2002

May: The President calls for the disclosure and corporate governance principles contained in his 10-point plan for corporate responsibility to apply to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. (OMB Prompt Letter to OFHEO, 5/29/02)

** 2003

January: Freddie Mac announces it has to restate financial results for the previous three years.

February: The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO) releases a report explaining that “although investors perceive an implicit Federal guarantee of [GSE] obligations,” “the government has provided no explicit legal backing for them.” As a consequence, unexpected problems at a GSE could immediately spread into financial sectors beyond the housing market. (“Systemic Risk: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the Role of OFHEO,” OFHEO Report, 2/4/03)

September: Fannie Mae discloses SEC investigation and acknowledges OFHEO’s review found earnings manipulations.

September: Treasury Secretary John Snow testifies before the House Financial Services Committee to recommend that Congress enact “legislation to create a new Federal agency to regulate and supervise the financial activities of our housing-related government sponsored enterprises” and set prudent and appropriate minimum capital adequacy requirements.

October: Fannie Mae discloses $1.2 billion accounting error.

November: Council of the Economic Advisers (CEA) Chairman Greg Mankiw explains that any “legislation to reform GSE regulation should empower the new regulator with sufficient strength and credibility to reduce systemic risk.” To reduce the potential for systemic instability, the regulator would have “broad authority to set both risk-based and minimum capital standards” and “receivership powers necessary to wind down the affairs of a troubled GSE.” (N. Gregory Mankiw, Remarks At The Conference Of State Bank Supervisors State Banking Summit And Leadership, 11/6/03)

** 2004

February: The President’s FY05 Budget again highlights the risk posed by the explosive growth of the GSEs and their low levels of required capital, and called for creation of a new, world-class regulator: “The Administration has determined that the safety and soundness regulators of the housing GSEs lack sufficient power and stature to meet their responsibilities, and therefore…should be replaced with a new strengthened regulator.” (2005 Budget Analytic Perspectives, pg. 83)

February: CEA Chairman Mankiw cautions Congress to “not take [the financial market's] strength for granted.” Again, the call from the Administration was to reduce this risk by “ensuring that the housing GSEs are overseen by an effective regulator.” (N. Gregory Mankiw, Op-Ed, “Keeping Fannie And Freddie’s House In Order,” Financial Times, 2/24/04)

June: Deputy Secretary of Treasury Samuel Bodman spotlights the risk posed by the GSEs and called for reform, saying “We do not have a world-class system of supervision of the housing government sponsored enterprises (GSEs), even though the importance of the housing financial system that the GSEs serve demands the best in supervision to ensure the long-term vitality of that system. Therefore, the Administration has called for a new, first class, regulatory supervisor for the three housing GSEs: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the Federal Home Loan Banking System.” (Samuel Bodman, House Financial Services Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations Testimony, 6/16/04)

** 2005

April: Treasury Secretary John Snow repeats his call for GSE reform, saying “Events that have transpired since I testified before this Committee in 2003 reinforce concerns over the systemic risks posed by the GSEs and further highlight the need for real GSE reform to ensure that our housing finance system remains a strong and vibrant source of funding for expanding homeownership opportunities in America… Half-measures will only exacerbate the risks to our financial system.” (Secretary John W. Snow, “Testimony Before The U.S. House Financial Services Committee,” 4/13/05)

** 2007

July: Two Bear Stearns hedge funds invested in mortgage securities collapse.

August: President Bush emphatically calls on Congress to pass a reform package for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, saying “first things first when it comes to those two institutions. Congress needs to get them reformed, get them streamlined, get them focused, and then I will consider other options.” (President George W. Bush, Press Conference, The White House, 8/9/07)

September: RealtyTrac announces foreclosure filings up 243,000 in August – up 115 percent from the year before.

September: Single-family existing home sales decreases 7.5 percent from the previous month – the lowest level in nine years. Median sale price of existing homes fell six percent from the year before.

December: President Bush again warns Congress of the need to pass legislation reforming GSEs, saying “These institutions provide liquidity in the mortgage market that benefits millions of homeowners, and it is vital they operate safely and operate soundly. So I’ve called on Congress to pass legislation that strengthens independent regulation of the GSEs – and ensures they focus on their important housing mission. The GSE reform bill passed by the House earlier this year is a good start. But the Senate has not acted. And the United States Senate needs to pass this legislation soon.” (President George W. Bush, Discusses Housing, The White House, 12/6/07)

** 2008

January: Bank of America announces it will buy Countrywide.

January: Citigroup announces mortgage portfolio lost $18.1 billion in value.

February: Assistant Secretary David Nason reiterates the urgency of reforms, says “A new regulatory structure for the housing GSEs is essential if these entities are to continue to perform their public mission successfully.” (David Nason, Testimony On Reforming GSE Regulation, Senate Committee On Banking, Housing And Urban Affairs, 2/7/08)

March: Bear Stearns announces it will sell itself to JPMorgan Chase.

March: President Bush calls on Congress to take action and “move forward with reforms on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. They need to continue to modernize the FHA, as well as allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to homeowners to refinance their mortgages.” (President George W. Bush, Remarks To The Economic Club Of New York, New York, NY, 3/14/08)

April: President Bush urges Congress to pass the much needed legislation
and “modernize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. [There are] constructive things Congress can do that will encourage the housing market to correct quickly by … helping people stay in their homes.” (President George W. Bush, Meeting With Cabinet, the White House, 4/14/08)

May: President Bush issues several pleas to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac before the situation deteriorates further.

“Americans are concerned about making their mortgage payments and keeping their homes. Yet Congress has failed to pass legislation I have repeatedly requested to modernize the Federal Housing Administration that will help more families stay in their homes, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance sub-prime loans.” (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/3/08)

“[T]he government ought to be helping creditworthy people stay in their homes. And one way we can do that – and Congress is making progress on this – is the reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. That reform will come with a strong, independent regulator.” (President George W. Bush, Meeting With The Secretary Of The Treasury, the White House, 5/19/08)

“Congress needs to pass legislation to modernize the Federal Housing Administration, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance subprime loans.” (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/31/08)

June: As foreclosure rates continued to rise in the first quarter, the President once again asks Congress to take the necessary measures to address this challenge, saying “we need to pass legislation to reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.” (President George W. Bush, Remarks At Swearing In Ceremony For Secretary Of Housing And Urban Development, Washington, D.C., 6/6/08)

July: Congress heeds the President’s call for action and passes reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as it becomes clear that the institutions are failing.

In 2005– Senator John McCain partnered with three other Senate Republicans to reform the government’s involvement in lending.
Democrats blocked this reform, too.


=================================

Oh, do you in any way find it interesting how the unemployment rate was 4.6 percent in 2006, which was the last time the republicans had majority power?

No?

I do. Considering the media all of that year blamed Bush and BIG OIL (like the cliche parrots they are) for the high has prices. They certainly did not harp on the low unemployment rate.

That same press in 2012 bragged about a fraudulent unemployment number 7.8 percent. Turns out that was a lie (yet another one) and the same press that berated Bush for the high gas prices in 2006, said that the high gas prices was good for the environment in 2012. Get that?

Just watch this......

I doubt you will, or get the point.



So, lets review shall we? The last time the republicans had power (majority) the unemployment rate was 4.6 percent. They did not say shit. Then Pelosi and the democrats took over power in 2007. They have had majority power since, and yet the liberals blame the housing bubble and economy only on Bush.


So where are we?

Me presenting facts to back up my claims.

 

[frigidweirdo]

So, lets review shall we? The last time the republicans had power (majority) the unemployment rate was 4.6 percent. They did not say shit. Then Pelosi and the democrats took over power in 2007. They have had majority power since, and yet the liberals blame the housing bubble and economy only on Bush.


So where are we?

Me presenting facts to back up my claims.

Let's review.

In 2001-2003 107th US Congress, with a Republican President, the House was Republican, and the Senate was 50/50 with the 101st member being Cheney, so Republican all the way.

They ignored calls.

The 108th Congress was Majority Republican and a Republican president, they ignored calls again.

The 109th congress, majority Republican and a Republican president, also managed to ignore calls.

Then the 110th congress, the last of Bush's 8 years in office was all Democrat party.

July 2008, that'd be what, half a year after they took power in congress "July: Congress heeds the President's call for action and passes reform legislation for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as it becomes clear that the institutions are failing"

So, 6 years of Republicans being told by their own president from their own party that something was wrong, that's okay, but then it take the Democratic Party 6 months to do something about it.

The question here has to be, if Bush, as President and a Republican president, goes to Congress and asks them to do something, and they just ignore him, what does that make Bush?

New Agency Proposed to Oversee Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae - NYTimes.com

Here's an article from 2003

"Among the groups denouncing the proposal today were the National Association of Home Builders and Congressional Democrats who fear that tighter regulation of the companies could sharply reduce their commitment to financing low-income and affordable housing."

"''These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis,'' said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ''The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.''

Representative Melvin L. Watt, Democrat of North Carolina, agreed.

''I don't see much other than a shell game going on here, moving something from one agency to another and in the process weakening the bargaining power of poorer families and their ability to get affordable housing,'' Mr. Watt said."

However, this bill was never voted on. It didn't get past the committees.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/109/s190

"Status
This bill was introduced on July 28, 2005, in a previous session of Congress, but was not enacted."

"Progress
Introduced Jan 26, 2005
Referred to Committee Jan 26, 2005
Reported by Committee Jul 28, 2005"

That's all that happened.

Now if the Republicans were serious about making something happen, wouldn't they have made it happen? They had a majority in the House and a Majority in the Senate.


Why do people blame Bush? Because that's what people do, they blame the President for things. The President is expected to put through his agenda and use Congress to get what he wants. Bush didn't do that. He said there was a problem, then told them to deal with it while he went away and did what? Messed up Iraq? Well most people would say it wasn't Bush who messed up Iraq, it was those working on his behalf. But he was the president and it's on his head, that's what he's voted in for.

As for unemployment rates being whatever whenever, come on, it takes years to have an impact on the economy as a president.