Why A "Good Guy with a Gun" is Bullshit

[2aguy]

Then why are you still arguing? That's who is supposed to have guns. You only need a few in every crowd.

False!
There is no way of knowing that.

Concealed carry permit holders are generally very responsible people. Let's start with them.

doesn't answer the question.

Actual situations where concealed carry permit holders did stop mass shooters answers your question......

false.

However, there have been enough mass-shootings in shall-issue states that it’s time to admit that the notion that “it will stop mass killings” is not a valid justification for shall-issue CCW. For all the bloody publicity they garnish, mass shootings are anomalies, freak incidents of human mayhem, the equivalent of bridge collapses or flesh-eating-bacteria outbreaks. Terrible and tragic, but not very common, and not really “preventable” in any practical sense.

I have to admit that I sometimes think that the extreme pro-gunners are the mirror image of the gun banners. The gun banners see guns as the cause of every problem and the gun-rights extremists see guns as the solution to every problem. The reality: complex problems won’t be resolved with bumper-sticker solutions, no matter how attractive or simple or convenient they might appear.

I’m not saying there aren’t valid reasons for shall-issue CCW. I think there are many. But the notion that liberalized CCW will prevent “mass shootings” is not one of them.

Does CCW Prevent Mass Shootings? - The Truth About Guns

Moron......98.8 percent of all mass shootings have happened in legally created gun free zones......it doesn't matter if it is a shall issue state if you can't carry your gun into the building targeted by a mass shooter......

And when there are morons mass shooters who actually pick a gun free zone that has an armed civilian in it...and I listed several......they get shot....

No....we don't see guns as the solution to the crime problem...that solution is catching criminals who use guns and locking them up for 30 years....the rest of the long term problem is fixing out of wedlock, single mother teen pregnancy.....that is how you solve gun crime in the United States twit.

And of course you ignored the links I gave where they notes, videos and confessions of mass shooters who survived and interrogated or who left information at their homes...where they specifically state they are targeting gun free zones.......twit.

 

[2aguy]

It's a good place to start. They already have the right to carry a weapon.

So does most everyone else.

Sure, because of the 2nd Amendment. They don't, however, have the right to concealed carry, which is granted by permit.

thanks captain obvious.

And permit holders are among the most responsible. They've demonstrated that they are willing to obey the law in obtaining the permit to carry a weapon and have very low crime rates with their guns. They are the logical people to have guns in active shooter situations.

really ?
Mass Shootings by Concealed Handgun Permit Holders in 2009
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The gun lobby frequently claims that concealed carry permit holders are the most law-abiding citizens in the Unites States. This might be true in many cases, but it has become apparent that the screening process in most states does little or nothing to stop dangerous individuals from obtaining permits to carry concealed handguns.

There were six confirmed mass shootings by concealed handgun permit holders in 2009 (mass shootings are shootings that involve three or more deaths):

1) Frank Garcia

On Valentine €™s Day, 35 year-old Frank Garcia drove into the parking lot of the Lakeside Memorial Hospital parking lot in Brockport, New York, at approximately 5:00 AM. Just four days earlier, he had been fired from his nursing position at the hospital. Garcia spotted Mary Silliman, 23, a former co-worker who was on a break, and physically attacked her. Two individuals who were driving by the hospital at that moment, Randal Norman and Audra Dillion, saw Garcia beating Silliman and stopped to help. When they got out of their car, Garcia opened fire with a .40-caliber Glock pistol, killing Norman and Silliman. Dillion was also shot, but survived her injuries. Garcia then drove 50 miles to Canandaigua, New York, where he went to the home of another former co-worker. There, he shot Kimberly Glatz and her husband Christopher execution-style in front of their 14 year-old daughter and 13 year-old son.

Garcia possessed a permit to carry a concealed handgun in New York. State officials denied his request for a permit three times before granting him one in 2007.

2) Michael McClendon
On March 10, 28 year-old Michael McLendon began a shooting rampage at the house in Coffee County, Alabama, where he lived with his mother. First, he shot and killed her and her four dogs, then laid them around the living room couch, which he soaked with paint thinner and lit on fire. McLendon then got into his car wearing a vest loaded with ammunition and armed with a .38 caliber handgun, a shotgun, and two assault rifles (an SKS and a Bushmaster). He drove to another house where he had lived with his uncle and aunt, James and Phyllis White. The two were sitting on the porch with their daughter, Tracy M. Wise, 34, her son, Dean, 15, and a family that lived across the street: Andrea Myers, 31 (the wife of a local sheriff €™s deputy), and her two children, 4-month old Ella and 18-month old Corrine. McLendon €™s great aunt, Virginia White, 74, was in a trailer parked in the White €™s yard. McLendon exited his vehicle and opened fire on them all, killing everyone but Phyllis White and Ella Myers.

McClendon then killed another man, James Starling, 24, on a nearby street, shooting him in the back as he tried to run away. Rounding the corner, he shot and killed Sonya Smith, 43, outside a convenience store. Two men, Jeffrey Nelson, 50, and Greg McCullough, 49, were shot and injured at the store. McLendon continued on to the town of Geneva with the police were in pursuit. Still spraying fire, he killed motorist Bruce Malloy, 51. The chase ended at Reliable Products, a metals plant where McClendon had once worked. There he engaged in a shootout with law enforcement officers before entering the business, turning a gun on himself, and taking his own life.

During the entire rampage, which lasted approximately 50 minutes, McLendon fired more than 200 rounds, killed 10 innocent people, and wounded six.

McLendon held a permit to carry a concealed handgun which had been issued by the Coffee County Sheriff €™s Department.

3) Richard Poplawski
On April 4, 23 year-old Richard Poplawski shot and killed three police officers who were responding to a 911 call at his home in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Poplawski, wearing a bulletproof vest and armed with a shotgun and an AK-47-style assault rifle, ambushed two officers who entered his house. He then managed to hold off police and SWAT team members who responded to the scene for four hours, firing approximately 100 rounds in the process. Poplawski has been charged with three counts of criminal homicide and nine counts of attempted homicide, including the wounding of a policeman who was trying to assist a fallen officer.

Poplawski is a White Supremacist with a long and disturbing history of violent behavior. He frequently visited, and posted messages at, the Neo-Nazi website Stormfront.org. Poplawski €™s best friend, Edward Perkovic, stated that he €œdidn’t like the Zionists controlling the media and controlling, you know, our freedom of speech. € On November 1, 2008, Poplawski wrote on Stormfront: €œA revolutionary is always regarded as a nutcase at first, their ideas dismissed as fantasy … If a total collapse is what it takes to wake our brethren and guarantee future generations of white children walk this continent, if that is what it takes to restore our freedoms and recapture our land: let it begin this very second and not a moment later. €

Perkovic also reported that Poplawski possessed a permit to carry a concealed handgun in the state of Pennsylvania. “I’ve seen it. He showed it to me. He said, ‘Eddie, get one of these,'” remembers Perkovic. Poplawski also posted on the Pennsylvania Firearm Owners website under the username €œRWhiteman € and in one thread complained that the state of Maryland did not recognize his concealed carry permit when he traveled there.

4) George Sodini
On August 4, George Sodini , 48, walked into the LA Fitness Center in Collier, Pennsylvania, wearing workout gear. In his pocket was a .32 semiautomatic handgun. He carried a duffel bag with three more handguns: two 9mm semiautomatic pistols with 30-round clips and a .45 caliber revolver. All told, he was carrying 150 rounds of ammunition. Sodini entered an exercise room where an aerobics class was taking place, turned off the lights, and opened fire, emptying one of the 9mm pistols. He then drew the second 9mm pistol and continued firing. In his last act, Sodini drew the .45 revolver and shot himself in

the head. When the smoke cleared, at least 36 rounds had been fired and three women lay dead. Nine other women were wounded in the shooting.

Within minutes of the tragedy becoming national news, a journal that Sodini had posted online was discovered. In it, Sodini provided his name, date of birth, and hometown-and in a series of entries dating back to November 2008 detailed his plans to commit mass murder.

Sodini held a permit to carry a concealed handgun in the state of Pennsylvania.


5) Nidal Malik Hasan

On November 5, Major Nidal Malik Hasan, a licensed Army psychiatrist, walked into the Soldier Readiness Processing Center on Fort Hood military base in Killeen, Texas. After yelling €œAllahu akbar, € Hasan, 39, opened fired with a FN Herstal Five-seveN semiautomatic handgun, killing 13 people (12 of them Soldiers) and wounding 34 others before he was shot by military police. Hasan sustained multiple injuries but survived. He will face 13 charges of premeditated murder in a military court. The shooting ranks as the nation’s worst ever on a military installation.

Hasan had openly opposed America €™s wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and espoused extremist Islamic views. He was being monitored by the FBI-led Joint Terrorism Task Force because of emails he had exchanged with the radical imam Anwar al-Awlaki. The FBI was also investigating whether he was behind violent anti-American comments left on a website under the screen name of “NidalHasan.” On two separate occasions, officials from Walter Reed and the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences met and expressed concern about Hasan’s behavior, which fellow students and faculty had described as “disconnected, aloof, paranoid, belligerent and schizoid.”

In March 1996, Hasan obtained a concealed handgun permit in Roanoke County, Virginia, where he lived at the time. The permit was renewed in February 1998. The application for his original permit can be viewed here.

6) Paul Michael Merhige
On Thanksgiving Day, Paul Michael Merhige, 35, sat through three hours of dinner and sing-a-longs with his family in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, before opening fire with a handgun. He shot six family members and killed four: his twin sisters, one of whom was pregnant; a 79 year-old aunt; and his six year-old cousin, Makalya Sitton, who was shot as she lay in bed. As he fired, witnesses heard Merhige say, “I have been waiting 20 years for this.”

Merhige bought three guns-two pistols and a semiautomatic rifle-at a South Florida gun shop the day before the shooting. The owner of the shop reported that Merhige had a concealed handgun permit.

In 2006, Merhige’s sister Carla (who was killed in the shooting) requested a restraining order against him after he threatened to kill her and himself. She eventually withdrew the request. The U.S. Marshal’s Service released a psychological profile of Merhige that indicates he has a history of mental illness and has taken the following medications: Seroquel, an antipsychotic prescribed for bipolar disorder, depression and schizophrenia; Ativan, an anti-anxiety medication; and Atenolol, a beta-blocker used to treat angina and hypertension. Merhige’s father said his son once attempted suicide by shooting himself in the chest.

Merhige escaped detection by law enforcement authorities after the murders and is currently a fugitive from justice. He faces four counts of first degree murder and two of attempted murder.




Additionally, terrorist suspect Anes Subasic was able to obtain a concealed handgun permit in his home state of North Carolina. On September 25, authorities apprehended 33-year-old Subasic after a nine-hour search of his home in Holly Springs. Subasic is a Muslim who fled Bosnia during its civil war (later becoming a naturalized U.S. citizen). Along with six others, Subasic was charged with planning violent overseas operations and an attack on the Marine Corps base in Quantico, Virginia.

The Bosnian Serb Republic courts had issued four warrants for Subasic €™s arrest, one of which was international. An official with the Bosnian Serb police stated that Subasic €œis known to be part of a criminal gang that operated in the wider area of Bosnia and the region. € All told, Bosnian Serb police charged Subasic 11 times on 16 counts of attempted murder, extortion and robbery. A waitress in Banja Luka recalled Subasic entering a restaurant and spraying fire randomly with an automatic weapon. €œWhoever knows Anes, they are not surprised [by his recent arrest], € she said.



Additional accounts of criminal activity by concealed handgun permit holders can be found at the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence and Violence Policy Center websites.

Mass Shootings by Concealed Handgun Permit Holders in 2009

Moron....there are 13,000,000 gun carrying permit holders...and those are just people who needed to get permits...that doesn't include those people in states that allow carry without a permit....

So....twit...

13,000,000 to 6......

Wow.....you really have some evidence there......actual research of actual crimes show that people with concealed carry permits are more law abiding than other citizens and even sworn police officers...

 

[2aguy]

http://concealedcarrykillers.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/FACTSHEET-CCW-Mass-Shooters.pdf
according to the above there have been 29 mass shootings by CC permit holders since may 2007

And of course you post the anti gun crap site.....

 

[2aguy]

http://concealedcarrykillers.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/FACTSHEET-CCW-Mass-Shooters.pdf
according to the above there have been 29 mass shootings by CC permit holders since may 2007

the first lesson you need to learn? The anti gun sites lie.....they lie all the time...because the actual research, the facts and the truth do not support anything they say......

Massive errors in the Violence Policy Center's "Concealed Carry Killers" - Crime Prevention Research Center

The Violence Policy Center regularly puts out the claim that concealed handgun permit holders are a danger to themselves and others. Right now they claim that concealed handgun permits have been responsible for 636 deaths from the entire United States over almost seven years from May 2007 to March 2014. John Lott has pointed out errors in the VPC numbers for Florida, so here let’s take the errors in just one state Michigan.

— In the Michigan state reports on concealed handgun permit holders that are cited by the VPC, 185 people died of suicides during the four reports from 2007 through 2012. That is 29 percent of the purported 636 deaths for the entire United States that the Violence Policy Center attributes to permitted concealed handguns.

But there is the problem:

If you look at page 2 in the latest report, you will see that the 28 suicides do not list a cause of death.

The report merely notes that permit holders committed suicide.

We don’t know if they committed suicide with a gun and if it was a gun, that it was the gun that they carried concealed.

Given that the overwhelming majority of these suicides were presumably at home, like most suicides, it isn’t even clear why a concealed handgun permit is relevant.

The suicide rate among permit holders in Michigan in 2012/13 (6.2 per 100,000 = ((28/450,000)*100,000) is about 62% lower than the suicide rate in the general adult population (see screen shot of suicide rate numbers from the CDC for adults in Michigan).


And then there is this.....on actual crimes allegedly committed by permit holders...

In other words, during 2007–08, five cases were pending and there were no convictions. The Violence Policy Center makes several fundamental mistakes.

First, it can’t add simple numbers up correctly. While the VPC claims 20 pending cases and 14 convictions, the Michigan State Police report a total of 14 and 11 cases respectively.

If you include both pending and convicted cases for all these years, you are going to obviously double count cases. Obviously some pending cases end in convictions.

The Violence Policy Center also includes cases of permit holders who were convicted of operating a motor vehicle while intoxicated and causing a death, but there is no evidence that the permit holder was carrying a concealed handgun at the time of the motor cycle accident (these cases were as follows: 2010-11 two cases, 2011-12 one case).

Yet, despite having the annual state reports that already included both pending and convicted cases, the VPC then includes news stories from these individual years that involved suicides, murders, and even a case where no charges were filed. (Their news stories for other years don’t present the same problem.)

 

[daws101]

three obsessive post in a row !
a classic example of talking a lot and not saying any thing.

 

[Uncensored2008]

[
another failed and false accusation ......

I take you seriously, you drunken sot.

Oh, wait.....

 

[daws101]

[
another failed and false accusation ......

I take you seriously, you drunken sot.

Oh, wait.....

yawn...

 

[martybegan]

Oh come on; duhs lacks the warmth and depth of a twat.....

how would you know the only twat you've ever experienced is two dimensional, not counting your inflatable friend.

Awww, does Daws haz a sadz?

no but it's a constant state of affairs for you.

Once again with the "right back at ya" response, how droll.

Ok miss manners.

Uh oh! you used the wrong pronoun! Shouldn't that cause your progressive twat ass to suffer a micro-aggression paradox and exit the continuum? (one can only hope)

 

[Geaux4it]

Did you research the dude who prevented the mass shooting at the mall? Was it Oregon?

In Portland mall shooting, CCW holder helped end the killing

-Geaux

 

[daws101]

how would you know the only twat you've ever experienced is two dimensional, not counting your inflatable friend.

Awww, does Daws haz a sadz?

no but it's a constant state of affairs for you.

Once again with the "right back at ya" response, how droll.

Ok miss manners.

Uh oh! you used the wrong pronoun! Shouldn't that cause your progressive twat ass to suffer a micro-aggression paradox and exit the continuum? (one can only hope)

Yawn. ..

 

[daws101]

Did you research the dude who prevented the mass shooting at the mall? Was it Oregon?

In Portland mall shooting, CCW holder helped end the killing

-Geaux

As I said before ,that is so rare it's almost meaningless.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Did you research the dude who prevented the mass shooting at the mall? Was it Oregon?

In Portland mall shooting, CCW holder helped end the killing

-Geaux

Duhs has an agenda to end civil rights, facts and reality have no bearing on that.

Duhs isn't interested in saving lives (actually, he is only interested in the next bottle of Thunderbird.)

 

[Uncensored2008]

[
As I said before ,that is so rare it's almost meaningless.

If 1 million American deaths would ensure that the Bill of Rights were revoked, simply by pushing a button; would you have a beer or a mixed drink prior to pushing it?

 

[daws101]

Did you research the dude who prevented the mass shooting at the mall? Was it Oregon?

In Portland mall shooting, CCW holder helped end the killing

-Geaux

Duhs has an agenda to end civil rights, facts and reality have no bearing on that.

Duhs isn't interested in saving lives (actually, he is only interested in the next bottle of Thunderbird.)

Same false accusations different day

 

[daws101]

[
As I said before ,that is so rare it's almost meaningless.

If 1 million American deaths would ensure that the Bill of Rights were revoked, simply by pushing a button; would you have a beer or a mixed drink prior to pushing it?

SFADD.

 

[Uncensored2008]

[
As I said before ,that is so rare it's almost meaningless.

If 1 million American deaths would ensure that the Bill of Rights were revoked, simply by pushing a button; would you have a beer or a mixed drink prior to pushing it?

SFADD.

False in what way, Sploogy?

Do you really deny that you would accept American deaths to achieve your goal of ending the Bill of Rights?

Come on, you are obsessed with crushing civil rights.

 

[martybegan]

Awww, does Daws haz a sadz?

no but it's a constant state of affairs for you.

Once again with the "right back at ya" response, how droll.

Ok miss manners.

Uh oh! you used the wrong pronoun! Shouldn't that cause your progressive twat ass to suffer a micro-aggression paradox and exit the continuum? (one can only hope)

Yawn. ..

You've been outclassed, take some advice.

 

[daws101]

[
As I said before ,that is so rare it's almost meaningless.

If 1 million American deaths would ensure that the Bill of Rights were revoked, simply by pushing a button; would you have a beer or a mixed drink prior to pushing it?

SFADD.

False in what way, Sploogy?

Do you really deny that you would accept American deaths to achieve your goal of ending the Bill of Rights?

Come on, you are obsessed with crushing civil rights.

Yes. Lol because I've never said or supported any thing you are falsely proclaiming.
The best part is you don't even realize how fucking silly your yammering is.

 

[daws101]

no but it's a constant state of affairs for you.

Once again with the "right back at ya" response, how droll.

Ok miss manners.

Uh oh! you used the wrong pronoun! Shouldn't that cause your progressive twat ass to suffer a micro-aggression paradox and exit the continuum? (one can only hope)

Yawn. ..

You've been outclassed, take some advice.

Yawn, btw max wins .
As always you were lost before you started.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Yes. Lol because I've never said or supported any thing you are falsely proclaiming.
The best part is you don't even realize how fucking silly your yammering is.

Yeah, I mean, this is your very first post in this thread..