Why aren’t liberals more critical of Islam?

[longknife]

Benjamin Wiker

We are now—like it or not—immersed in a real debate about the nature of Islam. The background of deceased Boston bomber Tamerlan Tsarnaev is forcing us into it. There is no doubt Tamerlan, the elder brother of the two perpetrators, was transformed by his relatively recent embrace of radical Islam..

Read more @ Why aren't liberals more critical of Islam?

The following is part of the argument that I find most to the point:

And so, for liberalism, nothing could be as bad as Christianity. If something goes wrong, blame Christianity first and all of Western culture that is based upon it.

This view remains integral to liberalism today, and it affects how liberals treat Islam.

 

[amrchaos]

Because the "Liberls" do not need to compete with "muslims" for power in the West!

In fact, by allowing the more traditionalists and conservatives to criticize Islam, liberals tend to win votes without effort!!


A bit machiavellian, is it not?

 

[Jimmy_Jam]

There are liberals who are critical of Islam. Bill Maher is a notable example.

As for the arguable majority that are not, I think amrchaos has a point that much of it may be a simple matter of competition.

I believe it is a similar reason to why atheists, also predominantly liberal, discriminate more so against Christianity than Islam. The early atheistic Chinese Republic was highly critical of Buddhism because that was what was present. They probably had little to say about Christianity because of it's rarity amongst the Chinese people. Atheists in the U.S. are more likely to combat Christianity because in the American context, they are their more immediate cultural and political enemies.

That quick analysis is by no means meant to be encompassing or complete.

 

[Jimmy_Jam]

And to be fair, liberals SHOULD be more critical of Islam, or at least be more willing to acknowledge when the religious connection to terrorism is obvious. Liberals are quick to defend what they see as a "minority," so that is a factor in all of this.

It is not unlike other groups liberals have made a point to defend, almost at all costs. Black people, who have suffered easily verifiable and irrefutable injustice in the history of the U.S., are often given cultural passes to behave in certain ways, and liberals are quick to defend such actions, or at least fail to acknowledge that certain behaviors are unacceptable. That's not to say that only liberals give black people cultural passes. Most people do. For liberals it is simply more a matter of actual politics while for most other people it is just a visceral reaction based primarily on simple white guilt.

I guess one can see it as a liberal attack on Christianity, and Christians, for whom martyrdom and persecution are important, are only to happy to oblige. I tend to think it is more simply a matter of general liberal behavior.

 

[Sunni Man]

There are liberals who are critical of Islam. Bill Maher is a notable example.

Bill Maher hates all religion.......

 

[Jimmy_Jam]

There are liberals who are critical of Islam. Bill Maher is a notable example.

Bill Maher hates all religion.......

This is true. He does criticize Islam quite a bit, however. I was simply pointing him out as a liberal who is critical of Islam in a thread that seems to believe all liberals defend Islam. It simply isn't true.

 

[hoosier88]

Benjamin Wiker

We are now—like it or not—immersed in a real debate about the nature of Islam. The background of deceased Boston bomber Tamerlan Tsarnaev is forcing us into it. There is no doubt Tamerlan, the elder brother of the two perpetrators, was transformed by his relatively recent embrace of radical Islam..

Read more @ Why aren't liberals more critical of Islam?

The following is part of the argument that I find most to the point:

And so, for liberalism, nothing could be as bad as Christianity. If something goes wrong, blame Christianity first and all of Western culture that is based upon it.

This view remains integral to liberalism today, and it affects how liberals treat Islam.

(My bold)

It seems that the Chechens converted en masse to Islam in a bid to get more political & military support from the Ottoman Empire - back when. (Bear in mind that history is v. real to most of the World. The US practically denies that history exists, but that is not the usual take.) & the Chechens have been fighting off the Russians, the USSR & now the Russian Federation in a v. bloody insurrection/civil war, whatever you want to call it. That history has to have weighed heavily on the brothers' minds.

OK, Christianity is a part of Western culture. But is Christianity all or even the major segment of W. Civ.? I don't think so, I need to dig around in my sources - but I recall Greek philosophy, Greek civic thinking, along with Roman civics, morality, educational thinking, & their related religions played a part too - & it may have been a larger part than Christianity's.

Islam has some v. ugly practices, but then, they haven't had a distinction between religion & state. What happens if they never draw that distinction? Would that mean a war to the death for either or both of us?

 

[amrchaos]

What is wrong with blaming Christianity first and all of Western culture that is based upon it.

If Western society is to grow and become even more developed and enlighten, is not self-criticism necessary?

Remember, the problem with some adults is that they refuse to look at their flaws, but then can we really call such individuals "adults"?

 

[Jimmy_Jam]

What is wrong with blaming Christianity first and all of Western culture that is based upon it.

If Western society is to grow and become even more developed and enlighten, is not self-criticism necessary?

Remember, the problem with some adults is that they refuse to look at their flaws, but then can we really call such individuals "adults"?

Yes. Self-criticism is a necessity to growth, and also a sign of maturity, so no surprise that there is so much resistance to it on USMB.

However, "blaming Christianity" as you put it may be a bit simplistic. I hope you won't take offense by that, as you may take that as an accusation of simple-mindedness, which is far from my intent. Our modern Western culture is influenced by a lot of things, both Christian and secular. Christian values, Enlightenment thinking, even the philosophy of ancient Greece are significant influences.

Today we are at a war of polarized thinking. People are vigorously re-writing history to coincide with their own world view, and there's not much room for self-criticism in that agenda, unfortunately. What we have is an virtually unlimited supply of information, but a seemingly very short supply of maturity.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I remember that, right after 9/11, knee jerk rw's wanted to kill all Muslims and there were actually assaults on innocent people. Those assaults have continued.

Have been done only by rw's? I don't know. What I DO know is that, among my lib friends, the anger and hate has consistently been for the actual terrorsits and/or those who actually try to hurt the US.

And so, for liberalism, nothing could be as bad as Christianity. If something goes wrong, blame Christianity first and all of Western culture that is based upon it.

This view remains integral to liberalism today, and it affects how liberals treat Islam.

I've never seen others believe this but I have to admit that my own experience with those who are so quick to proclaim their "christian-ness has led to me feeling distrust for their actions and motives. When someone says they're Christian, I immediately think, "don't turn your back and hold onto your wallet".

 

[Luddly Neddite]

There are liberals who are critical of Islam. Bill Maher is a notable example.

Bill Maher hates all religion.......

He also makes a huge point of saying that he does not say that gods do not exist. Whether its the Christian god or any other, he always says he simply does not know.

IOW, while others intone that they're certain their god does exist, Maher is honest. I respect that honesty.

 

[bodecea]

Benjamin Wiker

We are now—like it or not—immersed in a real debate about the nature of Islam. The background of deceased Boston bomber Tamerlan Tsarnaev is forcing us into it. There is no doubt Tamerlan, the elder brother of the two perpetrators, was transformed by his relatively recent embrace of radical Islam..

Read more @ Why aren't liberals more critical of Islam?

The following is part of the argument that I find most to the point:

And so, for liberalism, nothing could be as bad as Christianity. If something goes wrong, blame Christianity first and all of Western culture that is based upon it.

This view remains integral to liberalism today, and it affects how liberals treat Islam.

Very critical of it. But not to the point of wanting to throw out the 1st amendment over them....or to bomb them into the stone age.

 

[Underhill]

Benjamin Wiker

We are now—like it or not—immersed in a real debate about the nature of Islam. The background of deceased Boston bomber Tamerlan Tsarnaev is forcing us into it. There is no doubt Tamerlan, the elder brother of the two perpetrators, was transformed by his relatively recent embrace of radical Islam..

Read more @ Why aren't liberals more critical of Islam?

The following is part of the argument that I find most to the point:

And so, for liberalism, nothing could be as bad as Christianity. If something goes wrong, blame Christianity first and all of Western culture that is based upon it.

This view remains integral to liberalism today, and it affects how liberals treat Islam.

What a crock of shit.

First off, liberals do not have an issue with christians. Secular liberals do. The majority of liberals think of themselves as christian.

Second, it has nothing to do with one religions superiority over the other. Both are absurd and could represent a problem in many respects. But obviously, christians are the vast majority of the population in the US.

Third, even we secular liberals do not have an issue with all christians in and of themselves. We simply do not want them indoctrinating our youth or spreading their symbolism all over our government. We don't agree with some christians views on some issues.

And last, pretending that we are the aggressors in this is laughable. Christians have been pushing these bounds for decades. In the 50's they added "under God" to our pledge, and now act as though we are unreasonable for wanting to take it out. They push christian teachers to pray with students and offer bible studies in public schools and act pissed off that our kind fought against such indoctrination and won. They erect monuments at federal buildings and national parks all across the country.

And now here we have a christian trying to tie us with muslims in an attempt to make us look bad at a time when muslim hatred is at or near an all time high.

It's shit.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Shouldn't the question be -

Why do rw's hate people who have not harmed us? And, at the same time, they defend incompetent and stupid Bush when he refused to go after bin Laden while wiping out a country who did nothing to us and wiping out our own economy, killing and maiming hundreds of thousands.

That was and is unforgivable and yet the rw's defend that while wanting to kill innocents.

Very interesting that the op put this in the religion forum.