Why can't people just be honest about religion?

[PratchettFan]

I have not claimed there is a God. I have no idea if there is or not. You have said, " Atheists simply acknowledge that what isn't there - isn't there." The claim is yours. What evidence do you have to support it?

It isn't the evidence that counts in this instance. It is the glaring lack of evidence that counts.

A lack of evidence means that no conclusion can be arrived at. It does not support a negative conclusion any more than it supports a positive one. Your position is pure belief, and belief is belief whether negative or positive.

That isn't actually true. A lack of scientific evidence drastically reduces the probability of there being a god. And yes, even a probability of 0.0001 is not 0, but it is close enough in my book.

It is actually true. What is not true is that a lack of evidence reduces the probability of anything. That is just a belief, no different than claiming the universe is proof there is a God.

You have no idea what it is you are saying does not exist. You have no idea what evidence for its existence would be. You are in a state of absolute ignorance and you think you have arrived at a rational conclusion? That conclusion is utter fantasy and it is no different than the conclusion the thing your know nothing about exists. The only rational application of probability in this issue is 50/50, because there is no evidence of any sort to support higher odds on either side. Anything other than 50/50 is pure, unsupported belief.

Your position isn't rational. It is not scientific. The only word which would come close to describing it is "religious".

You tell me your god turned 5 loaves of bread and 3 fish into a feast for 5000.

Do you really believe that your belief in that story is as valid as my disbelief?

I don't recall telling you any such thing.

 

[PratchettFan]

I have not claimed there is a God. I have no idea if there is or not. You have said, " Atheists simply acknowledge that what isn't there - isn't there." The claim is yours. What evidence do you have to support it?

It isn't the evidence that counts in this instance. It is the glaring lack of evidence that counts.

A lack of evidence means that no conclusion can be arrived at. It does not support a negative conclusion any more than it supports a positive one. Your position is pure belief, and belief is belief whether negative or positive.

That isn't actually true. A lack of scientific evidence drastically reduces the probability of there being a god. And yes, even a probability of 0.0001 is not 0, but it is close enough in my book.

It is actually true. What is not true is that a lack of evidence reduces the probability of anything.

If you believe that, then you don't understand probability.

You have no idea what it is you are saying does not exist. You have no idea what evidence for its existence would be. You are in a state of absolute ignorance and you think you have arrived at a rational conclusion? That conclusion is utter fantasy and it is no different than the conclusion the thing your know nothing about exists. The only rational application of probability in this issue is 50/50, because there is no evidence of any sort to support higher odds on either side. Anything other than 50/50 is pure, unsupported belief.

Your position isn't rational. It is not scientific. The only word which would come close to describing it is "religious".

Wow, so you are going to make this personal, are you? Careful what you wish for.

When there is no scientific evidence to support the argument for the existence of a god, the notion that the probability for or against are somehow 50/50 is merely wishful thinking.

I do understand probability. I use it all the time in my work and I wouldn't last long making predictions if I did it without any evidence. There is no scientific evidence to support any argument for the existence or non-existence of god. To say the odds are in favor of non-existence is merely wishful thinking.

No need to take anything personal. I think what I said was absolutely accurate and you can replace the word "I" for "you" in that as well. I have no idea what it is. But do prove me wrong. Tell me what God is.

 

[PratchettFan]

Christians just can't admit that their religion makes zero sense. They literally worship a Jewish zombie who was his own father and had to kill himself to forgive us for our furthest ancestors eating a piece of fruit he knew they would eat when he made them. Muslims just can't admit that the Qur'an really does, no shit, teach terrorism and domestic violence. It's not even debatable; just read it for yourself. Jews just can't admit that their religion is more or less the foundation stone of modern Western bigotry. The West didn't really even have ideas like total genocidal war, blood purity, or a master race until the Old Testament was translated into their languages. Neopagans just can't accept that their religions are basically just shallow rip-offs of actual pagan religions combined with Jungian psychoanalysis and capitalism. Btw, Native peoples would really like you people in particular to stop selling their culture. I could go on, but I think this small list suffices for now to prove that, not only is there no true religion, there's not even one worth following. Atheism is the only moral position.

Atheism is just another belief system. There is absolutely nothing moral about it. All you are really saying is "This is what I believe and everyone should think like me." Just another true believer.

If your religion doesn't make sense to us, just like Islam or Mormonism or the Greek Gods don't to you, isn't it moral to speak the truth? If we think religion is a lie that holds people back, shouldn't we speak up? Look at how ISIS uses god. Its not a healthy concept. "They" use it to brainwash/control you.

If one accepts the prevailing scientific understanding of the development of the universe, yet also believes in one of the major religions, then presumably a god sat idle for 13.7 billion years – waiting as the stars, galaxies and planets formed. Then it watched with complete and utter indifference as modern Homo Sapians evolved, struggled and died for 150,000 years. Finally, a few thousand years ago, this god suddenly decided to reveal itself to a hand ful of people in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared.

You can say anything you like. I'm not on a message board because I expect people to shut up. But just because your particular belief as to the nature of God doesn't make any sense to you is not evidence regarding the existence of God. It just means your belief doesn't make sense.

You are free to promote your belief in god. However, your belief is absent support.

You lead your argument by deferring to "God ", a reference to a unique and partisan supernatural entity. It's just a fact that there has never been any objective evidence for any of the human inventions of gawds, past or present. And with a historical perspective, we can identify your God as merely an invention of a supernatural entity that is an accumulation of hand-me-down attributes of earlier gawds, all rolled up into a three stop shopping gawds of convenience.

It's therefore a rational and legitimate conclusion that the supernatural entities that have been distilled into the God you refer to is merely your partisan belief.

Of course my belief is absent support. Have you paid no attention to anything I have ever written? Absolutely zero support. I fully acknowledge that. What you don't accept is that your belief also has zero support. The only rational and scientific position one can take in the absolute absence of evidence is neutrality, and you are most definitely not neutral. So claiming your position is rational and scientific shows a total lack of understanding of what those words mean.

 

[PratchettFan]

Christians just can't admit that their religion makes zero sense. They literally worship a Jewish zombie who was his own father and had to kill himself to forgive us for our furthest ancestors eating a piece of fruit he knew they would eat when he made them. Muslims just can't admit that the Qur'an really does, no shit, teach terrorism and domestic violence. It's not even debatable; just read it for yourself. Jews just can't admit that their religion is more or less the foundation stone of modern Western bigotry. The West didn't really even have ideas like total genocidal war, blood purity, or a master race until the Old Testament was translated into their languages. Neopagans just can't accept that their religions are basically just shallow rip-offs of actual pagan religions combined with Jungian psychoanalysis and capitalism. Btw, Native peoples would really like you people in particular to stop selling their culture. I could go on, but I think this small list suffices for now to prove that, not only is there no true religion, there's not even one worth following. Atheism is the only moral position.

Atheism is just another belief system. There is absolutely nothing moral about it. All you are really saying is "This is what I believe and everyone should think like me." Just another true believer.

If your religion doesn't make sense to us, just like Islam or Mormonism or the Greek Gods don't to you, isn't it moral to speak the truth? If we think religion is a lie that holds people back, shouldn't we speak up? Look at how ISIS uses god. Its not a healthy concept. "They" use it to brainwash/control you.

If one accepts the prevailing scientific understanding of the development of the universe, yet also believes in one of the major religions, then presumably a god sat idle for 13.7 billion years – waiting as the stars, galaxies and planets formed. Then it watched with complete and utter indifference as modern Homo Sapians evolved, struggled and died for 150,000 years. Finally, a few thousand years ago, this god suddenly decided to reveal itself to a hand ful of people in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared.

You can say anything you like. I'm not on a message board because I expect people to shut up. But just because your particular belief as to the nature of God doesn't make any sense to you is not evidence regarding the existence of God. It just means your belief doesn't make sense.

When you hear the story of Zeus, do you believe he once existed? I bet you if you lived back in ancient Greece you would believe in him and you would say lightening bolts are your evidence and that I have no evidence Zeus is not real. You would ask me to prove Zeus is not real.

Can you prove Zeus is not real? Then he must be real. Right? Or believe in him is just as valid as not believing, right?

No, I don't believe Zeus was real. Do you have a point?

 

[Hollie]

Christians just can't admit that their religion makes zero sense. They literally worship a Jewish zombie who was his own father and had to kill himself to forgive us for our furthest ancestors eating a piece of fruit he knew they would eat when he made them. Muslims just can't admit that the Qur'an really does, no shit, teach terrorism and domestic violence. It's not even debatable; just read it for yourself. Jews just can't admit that their religion is more or less the foundation stone of modern Western bigotry. The West didn't really even have ideas like total genocidal war, blood purity, or a master race until the Old Testament was translated into their languages. Neopagans just can't accept that their religions are basically just shallow rip-offs of actual pagan religions combined with Jungian psychoanalysis and capitalism. Btw, Native peoples would really like you people in particular to stop selling their culture. I could go on, but I think this small list suffices for now to prove that, not only is there no true religion, there's not even one worth following. Atheism is the only moral position.

Atheism is just another belief system. There is absolutely nothing moral about it. All you are really saying is "This is what I believe and everyone should think like me." Just another true believer.

If your religion doesn't make sense to us, just like Islam or Mormonism or the Greek Gods don't to you, isn't it moral to speak the truth? If we think religion is a lie that holds people back, shouldn't we speak up? Look at how ISIS uses god. Its not a healthy concept. "They" use it to brainwash/control you.

If one accepts the prevailing scientific understanding of the development of the universe, yet also believes in one of the major religions, then presumably a god sat idle for 13.7 billion years – waiting as the stars, galaxies and planets formed. Then it watched with complete and utter indifference as modern Homo Sapians evolved, struggled and died for 150,000 years. Finally, a few thousand years ago, this god suddenly decided to reveal itself to a hand ful of people in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared.

You can say anything you like. I'm not on a message board because I expect people to shut up. But just because your particular belief as to the nature of God doesn't make any sense to you is not evidence regarding the existence of God. It just means your belief doesn't make sense.

You are free to promote your belief in god. However, your belief is absent support.

You lead your argument by deferring to "God ", a reference to a unique and partisan supernatural entity. It's just a fact that there has never been any objective evidence for any of the human inventions of gawds, past or present. And with a historical perspective, we can identify your God as merely an invention of a supernatural entity that is an accumulation of hand-me-down attributes of earlier gawds, all rolled up into a three stop shopping gawds of convenience.

It's therefore a rational and legitimate conclusion that the supernatural entities that have been distilled into the God you refer to is merely your partisan belief.

Of course my belief is absent support. Have you paid no attention to anything I have ever written? Absolutely zero support. I fully acknowledge that. What you don't accept is that your belief also has zero support. The only rational and scientific position one can take in the absolute absence of evidence is neutrality, and you are most definitely not neutral. So claiming your position is rational and scientific shows and total lack of understanding of what those words mean.

How odd that you argue in support of a position you insist has no support.

Anyway, let's use your "standards", such as they are, in connection with the "you can't prove it isn't", argument and apply those standards to your belief systems of Leprechaun'ism, Bigfoot'ism, Nessie'ism, alien abduction'ism, etc.

Per you "standards", belief in those entities and associations is just as viable as not. Are we to accept that your belief system of Leprechaun'ism is a valid belief system because Leprechauns haven't been absolutely proven to not exist?

 

[Hollie]

Christians just can't admit that their religion makes zero sense. They literally worship a Jewish zombie who was his own father and had to kill himself to forgive us for our furthest ancestors eating a piece of fruit he knew they would eat when he made them. Muslims just can't admit that the Qur'an really does, no shit, teach terrorism and domestic violence. It's not even debatable; just read it for yourself. Jews just can't admit that their religion is more or less the foundation stone of modern Western bigotry. The West didn't really even have ideas like total genocidal war, blood purity, or a master race until the Old Testament was translated into their languages. Neopagans just can't accept that their religions are basically just shallow rip-offs of actual pagan religions combined with Jungian psychoanalysis and capitalism. Btw, Native peoples would really like you people in particular to stop selling their culture. I could go on, but I think this small list suffices for now to prove that, not only is there no true religion, there's not even one worth following. Atheism is the only moral position.

Atheism is just another belief system. There is absolutely nothing moral about it. All you are really saying is "This is what I believe and everyone should think like me." Just another true believer.

If your religion doesn't make sense to us, just like Islam or Mormonism or the Greek Gods don't to you, isn't it moral to speak the truth? If we think religion is a lie that holds people back, shouldn't we speak up? Look at how ISIS uses god. Its not a healthy concept. "They" use it to brainwash/control you.

If one accepts the prevailing scientific understanding of the development of the universe, yet also believes in one of the major religions, then presumably a god sat idle for 13.7 billion years – waiting as the stars, galaxies and planets formed. Then it watched with complete and utter indifference as modern Homo Sapians evolved, struggled and died for 150,000 years. Finally, a few thousand years ago, this god suddenly decided to reveal itself to a hand ful of people in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared.

You can say anything you like. I'm not on a message board because I expect people to shut up. But just because your particular belief as to the nature of God doesn't make any sense to you is not evidence regarding the existence of God. It just means your belief doesn't make sense.

When you hear the story of Zeus, do you believe he once existed? I bet you if you lived back in ancient Greece you would believe in him and you would say lightening bolts are your evidence and that I have no evidence Zeus is not real. You would ask me to prove Zeus is not real.

Can you prove Zeus is not real? Then he must be real. Right? Or believe in him is just as valid as not believing, right?

No, I don't believe Zeus was real. Do you have a point?

You're entitled to your belief system of Zeus'ism.

 

[Meriweather]

1. There is a being who has more knowledge and power than humans? Do you have any proof of this? Seems more to me we made up this character.

I imagine you mean scientific proof, which entails being able to set up controlled experiments to observe in a laboratory setting that produces the same result over and over again?

I often wonder how many true scientists are embarrassed by people demanding physical proof of the spiritual realm? That is rather like a demand that a rock be used to prove water--so childish it causes one to cringe.

2. Who loves us and cares about us? This is wishful thinking.

Or, the experience of many down through the ages even til today. A comparison: The desert contains mirage after mirage. There are also springs of water. Stories have been told of people missing these springs, having convinced themselves all is mirage.

3. You can take out the "love god" part and just say "Love our fellowman as oneself" and then I'd agree with you. The god part isn't necessary.

Nor is an airplane necessary for one to reach the West Coast from the East Coast. But many find it the preferable way of traveling.

 

[mudwhistle]

Christians just can't admit that their religion makes zero sense. They literally worship a Jewish zombie who was his own father and had to kill himself to forgive us for our furthest ancestors eating a piece of fruit he knew they would eat when he made them. Muslims just can't admit that the Qur'an really does, no shit, teach terrorism and domestic violence. It's not even debatable; just read it for yourself. Jews just can't admit that their religion is more or less the foundation stone of modern Western bigotry. The West didn't really even have ideas like total genocidal war, blood purity, or a master race until the Old Testament was translated into their languages. Neopagans just can't accept that their religions are basically just shallow rip-offs of actual pagan religions combined with Jungian psychoanalysis and capitalism. Btw, Native peoples would really like you people in particular to stop selling their culture. I could go on, but I think this small list suffices for now to prove that, not only is there no true religion, there's not even one worth following. Atheism is the only moral position.

"Being honest about religion." Made me laugh. Can't be honest about a lie can ya?

Faith in something isn't the same thing as a lie.

If you are wasting your life worshiping something that doesn't exist. But I guess it makes sad people feel better about themselves. Are you really worried about where you go when you die? I'm not. I'm just enjoying my time while I have it. Remember what it was like before you were born? That's what it'll be like when you are dead.

I'm not going to criticize your beliefs, why do you have to make fun of mine?

I have the right to believe what I want. I'm not going to allow somebody to tell me what I can or cannot believe in. Faith is a personal matter and frankly it's nobody's business what I choose to believe. As long as my faith doesn't infringe on your life I think you shouldn't waste another moment dwelling on how I choose to live my life.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Christians just can't admit that their religion makes zero sense. They literally worship a Jewish zombie who was his own father and had to kill himself to forgive us for our furthest ancestors eating a piece of fruit he knew they would eat when he made them.

This Christian can admit you make zero sense of religion, and not even good satire.

The simple message of Christianity is that there is a being who has more knowledge and power than humans; who loves us and cares about the little bits and pieces that make up each of our lives. This being, who we call God, became man so that he could model a full and abundant life--and to show that pursuing God, even through death, will result in victory and eternal life. Love God with with all our being. Love our fellowman as oneself. Religion makes sense.

1. There is a being who has more knowledge and power than humans? Do you have any proof of this? Seems more to me we made up this character.

2. Who loves us and cares about us? This is wishful thinking.

3. You can take out the "love god" part and just say "Love our fellowman as oneself" and then I'd agree with you. The god part isn't necessary.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Oh goody goody - a thread with something to offend almost everyone,

Pagans don't believe in or worship a "god". They believe in the inherent duality of nature.

To me, the question has always been, why, throughout history, have some people needed to believe in a god?

What do you mean when you say the duality of nature?

du·al·i·ty

1. the quality or condition of being dual.
   "the novel's deep duality about human motive.
2. an instance of opposition or contrast between two concepts or two aspects of something; a dualism.

Male - Female

 

[PratchettFan]

Christians just can't admit that their religion makes zero sense. They literally worship a Jewish zombie who was his own father and had to kill himself to forgive us for our furthest ancestors eating a piece of fruit he knew they would eat when he made them. Muslims just can't admit that the Qur'an really does, no shit, teach terrorism and domestic violence. It's not even debatable; just read it for yourself. Jews just can't admit that their religion is more or less the foundation stone of modern Western bigotry. The West didn't really even have ideas like total genocidal war, blood purity, or a master race until the Old Testament was translated into their languages. Neopagans just can't accept that their religions are basically just shallow rip-offs of actual pagan religions combined with Jungian psychoanalysis and capitalism. Btw, Native peoples would really like you people in particular to stop selling their culture. I could go on, but I think this small list suffices for now to prove that, not only is there no true religion, there's not even one worth following. Atheism is the only moral position.

Atheism is just another belief system. There is absolutely nothing moral about it. All you are really saying is "This is what I believe and everyone should think like me." Just another true believer.

If your religion doesn't make sense to us, just like Islam or Mormonism or the Greek Gods don't to you, isn't it moral to speak the truth? If we think religion is a lie that holds people back, shouldn't we speak up? Look at how ISIS uses god. Its not a healthy concept. "They" use it to brainwash/control you.

If one accepts the prevailing scientific understanding of the development of the universe, yet also believes in one of the major religions, then presumably a god sat idle for 13.7 billion years – waiting as the stars, galaxies and planets formed. Then it watched with complete and utter indifference as modern Homo Sapians evolved, struggled and died for 150,000 years. Finally, a few thousand years ago, this god suddenly decided to reveal itself to a hand ful of people in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared.

You can say anything you like. I'm not on a message board because I expect people to shut up. But just because your particular belief as to the nature of God doesn't make any sense to you is not evidence regarding the existence of God. It just means your belief doesn't make sense.

I understand all the reasons you believe in god. I get it! You can't see how without a god. That's cool. I'm just telling you that as a scientist we see zero hard evidence of a god(s) existence. But that hasn't stopped humans. For thousands of years we've been having this debate. Well, whenever we've been allowed. There have been plenty of times when you could not even question this. This is another reason I know god is all made up. They forced it onto us for so long that now it might be hard wired into us. We want to believe we are special. We hate not knowing things. And this we truly don't know.

Us Atheists understand all the phylisophical arguments for why people believe in gods. Us skeptics are just letting you know none of your arguments prove a god exists. And we admit we can't prove your invisible imaginary friend is not real.

Then we have the organized religions who say that god visited their ancestors 2000 years ago in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared..

Here is how I see it. Imagine there has been a murder. A man is accused of murdering someone in a stadium during a ball game. The jury is shown all the evidence and asked to weigh that evidence before rendering judgment. The jury comes back and says they are hung on his guilt or innocence. This is so because one person refuses to agree with the rest on his guilt. This juror does this despite the fact that thousands of people at the stadium witnessed the murder, despite the fact that 100 cameras recorded the incident, despite the fact that the accused has admitted to his guilt. The juror refuses to find him guilty based solely on the off chance that out there somewhere there might be some evidence that was missed. We are asked to believe in something despite the utter lack of evidence in favor of it being true.

Atheism is just another belief system. There is absolutely nothing moral about it. All you are really saying is "This is what I believe and everyone should think like me." Just another true believer.

If your religion doesn't make sense to us, just like Islam or Mormonism or the Greek Gods don't to you, isn't it moral to speak the truth? If we think religion is a lie that holds people back, shouldn't we speak up? Look at how ISIS uses god. Its not a healthy concept. "They" use it to brainwash/control you.

If one accepts the prevailing scientific understanding of the development of the universe, yet also believes in one of the major religions, then presumably a god sat idle for 13.7 billion years – waiting as the stars, galaxies and planets formed. Then it watched with complete and utter indifference as modern Homo Sapians evolved, struggled and died for 150,000 years. Finally, a few thousand years ago, this god suddenly decided to reveal itself to a hand ful of people in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared.

You can say anything you like. I'm not on a message board because I expect people to shut up. But just because your particular belief as to the nature of God doesn't make any sense to you is not evidence regarding the existence of God. It just means your belief doesn't make sense.

You are free to promote your belief in god. However, your belief is absent support.

You lead your argument by deferring to "God ", a reference to a unique and partisan supernatural entity. It's just a fact that there has never been any objective evidence for any of the human inventions of gawds, past or present. And with a historical perspective, we can identify your God as merely an invention of a supernatural entity that is an accumulation of hand-me-down attributes of earlier gawds, all rolled up into a three stop shopping gawds of convenience.

It's therefore a rational and legitimate conclusion that the supernatural entities that have been distilled into the God you refer to is merely your partisan belief.

Of course my belief is absent support. Have you paid no attention to anything I have ever written? Absolutely zero support. I fully acknowledge that. What you don't accept is that your belief also has zero support. The only rational and scientific position one can take in the absolute absence of evidence is neutrality, and you are most definitely not neutral. So claiming your position is rational and scientific shows and total lack of understanding of what those words mean.

How odd that you argue in support of a position you insist has no support.

Anyway, let's use your "standards", such as they are, in connection with the "you can't prove it isn't", argument and apply those standards to your belief systems of Leprechaun'ism, Bigfoot'ism, Nessie'ism, alien abduction'ism, etc.

Per you "standards", belief in those entities and associations is just as viable as not. Are we to accept that your belief system of Leprechaun'ism is a valid belief system because Leprechauns haven't been absolutely proven to not exist?

I do not argue in support of anything. I am simply pointing out that your unsupported belief is no different than any other unsupported belief.

 

[Hollie]

Atheism is just another belief system. There is absolutely nothing moral about it. All you are really saying is "This is what I believe and everyone should think like me." Just another true believer.

If your religion doesn't make sense to us, just like Islam or Mormonism or the Greek Gods don't to you, isn't it moral to speak the truth? If we think religion is a lie that holds people back, shouldn't we speak up? Look at how ISIS uses god. Its not a healthy concept. "They" use it to brainwash/control you.

If one accepts the prevailing scientific understanding of the development of the universe, yet also believes in one of the major religions, then presumably a god sat idle for 13.7 billion years – waiting as the stars, galaxies and planets formed. Then it watched with complete and utter indifference as modern Homo Sapians evolved, struggled and died for 150,000 years. Finally, a few thousand years ago, this god suddenly decided to reveal itself to a hand ful of people in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared.

You can say anything you like. I'm not on a message board because I expect people to shut up. But just because your particular belief as to the nature of God doesn't make any sense to you is not evidence regarding the existence of God. It just means your belief doesn't make sense.

I understand all the reasons you believe in god. I get it! You can't see how without a god. That's cool. I'm just telling you that as a scientist we see zero hard evidence of a god(s) existence. But that hasn't stopped humans. For thousands of years we've been having this debate. Well, whenever we've been allowed. There have been plenty of times when you could not even question this. This is another reason I know god is all made up. They forced it onto us for so long that now it might be hard wired into us. We want to believe we are special. We hate not knowing things. And this we truly don't know.

Us Atheists understand all the phylisophical arguments for why people believe in gods. Us skeptics are just letting you know none of your arguments prove a god exists. And we admit we can't prove your invisible imaginary friend is not real.

Then we have the organized religions who say that god visited their ancestors 2000 years ago in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared..

Here is how I see it. Imagine there has been a murder. A man is accused of murdering someone in a stadium during a ball game. The jury is shown all the evidence and asked to weigh that evidence before rendering judgment. The jury comes back and says they are hung on his guilt or innocence. This is so because one person refuses to agree with the rest on his guilt. This juror does this despite the fact that thousands of people at the stadium witnessed the murder, despite the fact that 100 cameras recorded the incident, despite the fact that the accused has admitted to his guilt. The juror refuses to find him guilty based solely on the off chance that out there somewhere there might be some evidence that was missed. We are asked to believe in something despite the utter lack of evidence in favor of it being true.

If your religion doesn't make sense to us, just like Islam or Mormonism or the Greek Gods don't to you, isn't it moral to speak the truth? If we think religion is a lie that holds people back, shouldn't we speak up? Look at how ISIS uses god. Its not a healthy concept. "They" use it to brainwash/control you.

If one accepts the prevailing scientific understanding of the development of the universe, yet also believes in one of the major religions, then presumably a god sat idle for 13.7 billion years – waiting as the stars, galaxies and planets formed. Then it watched with complete and utter indifference as modern Homo Sapians evolved, struggled and died for 150,000 years. Finally, a few thousand years ago, this god suddenly decided to reveal itself to a hand ful of people in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared.

You can say anything you like. I'm not on a message board because I expect people to shut up. But just because your particular belief as to the nature of God doesn't make any sense to you is not evidence regarding the existence of God. It just means your belief doesn't make sense.

You are free to promote your belief in god. However, your belief is absent support.

You lead your argument by deferring to "God ", a reference to a unique and partisan supernatural entity. It's just a fact that there has never been any objective evidence for any of the human inventions of gawds, past or present. And with a historical perspective, we can identify your God as merely an invention of a supernatural entity that is an accumulation of hand-me-down attributes of earlier gawds, all rolled up into a three stop shopping gawds of convenience.

It's therefore a rational and legitimate conclusion that the supernatural entities that have been distilled into the God you refer to is merely your partisan belief.

Of course my belief is absent support. Have you paid no attention to anything I have ever written? Absolutely zero support. I fully acknowledge that. What you don't accept is that your belief also has zero support. The only rational and scientific position one can take in the absolute absence of evidence is neutrality, and you are most definitely not neutral. So claiming your position is rational and scientific shows and total lack of understanding of what those words mean.

How odd that you argue in support of a position you insist has no support.

Anyway, let's use your "standards", such as they are, in connection with the "you can't prove it isn't", argument and apply those standards to your belief systems of Leprechaun'ism, Bigfoot'ism, Nessie'ism, alien abduction'ism, etc.

Per you "standards", belief in those entities and associations is just as viable as not. Are we to accept that your belief system of Leprechaun'ism is a valid belief system because Leprechauns haven't been absolutely proven to not exist?

I do not argue in support of anything. I am simply pointing out that your unsupported belief is no different than any other unsupported belief.

As you acknowledge you're not arguing in support of anything, why not tell me what belief you think I have that you're arguing in support of?

 

[orogenicman]

It isn't the evidence that counts in this instance. It is the glaring lack of evidence that counts.

A lack of evidence means that no conclusion can be arrived at. It does not support a negative conclusion any more than it supports a positive one. Your position is pure belief, and belief is belief whether negative or positive.

That isn't actually true. A lack of scientific evidence drastically reduces the probability of there being a god. And yes, even a probability of 0.0001 is not 0, but it is close enough in my book.

It is actually true. What is not true is that a lack of evidence reduces the probability of anything.

If you believe that, then you don't understand probability.

You have no idea what it is you are saying does not exist. You have no idea what evidence for its existence would be. You are in a state of absolute ignorance and you think you have arrived at a rational conclusion? That conclusion is utter fantasy and it is no different than the conclusion the thing your know nothing about exists. The only rational application of probability in this issue is 50/50, because there is no evidence of any sort to support higher odds on either side. Anything other than 50/50 is pure, unsupported belief.

Your position isn't rational. It is not scientific. The only word which would come close to describing it is "religious".

Wow, so you are going to make this personal, are you? Careful what you wish for.

When there is no scientific evidence to support the argument for the existence of a god, the notion that the probability for or against are somehow 50/50 is merely wishful thinking.

I do understand probability. I use it all the time in my work and I wouldn't last long making predictions if I did it without any evidence. There is no scientific evidence to support any argument for the existence or non-existence of god. To say the odds are in favor of non-existence is merely wishful thinking.

No need to take anything personal. I think what I said was absolutely accurate and you can replace the word "I" for "you" in that as well. I have no idea what it is. But do prove me wrong. Tell me what God is.

You tell me I am ignorant and have no idea what I am talking about (and you say this despite the fact that you don't know me much less know what I do and do not know) and then tell me that it is nothing personal. You should try that joke in Vegas. I'm sure it will get a lot of laughs. There is no scientific evidence to support the claim that god exists. There is plenty of evidence to support the claim that the god of the bible and just about every other religion does not exist. One large bit of evidence is that every religion uses the god of the gaps argument (none more so than Christianity), the argument being that god can be found in the gaps of our knowledge. (i.e., We don't know what causes the rainbow, that must be a gift from god, or god is punishing us for our sins by striking us with that tsunami). The problem with that argument is that science keeps filling in those gaps with sound scientific explanations and principles that don't require the existence of god. And so when we look at the laws of physics, the principles of chemistry, geology, and biology, we see a universe that acts exactly as if no god exists because all these laws and principles tell us that the supernatural is not needed to explain anything. In fact, "god did it" doesn't explain anything at all.

 

[orogenicman]

Christians just can't admit that their religion makes zero sense. They literally worship a Jewish zombie who was his own father and had to kill himself to forgive us for our furthest ancestors eating a piece of fruit he knew they would eat when he made them. Muslims just can't admit that the Qur'an really does, no shit, teach terrorism and domestic violence. It's not even debatable; just read it for yourself. Jews just can't admit that their religion is more or less the foundation stone of modern Western bigotry. The West didn't really even have ideas like total genocidal war, blood purity, or a master race until the Old Testament was translated into their languages. Neopagans just can't accept that their religions are basically just shallow rip-offs of actual pagan religions combined with Jungian psychoanalysis and capitalism. Btw, Native peoples would really like you people in particular to stop selling their culture. I could go on, but I think this small list suffices for now to prove that, not only is there no true religion, there's not even one worth following. Atheism is the only moral position.

Atheism is just another belief system. There is absolutely nothing moral about it. All you are really saying is "This is what I believe and everyone should think like me." Just another true believer.

If your religion doesn't make sense to us, just like Islam or Mormonism or the Greek Gods don't to you, isn't it moral to speak the truth? If we think religion is a lie that holds people back, shouldn't we speak up? Look at how ISIS uses god. Its not a healthy concept. "They" use it to brainwash/control you.

If one accepts the prevailing scientific understanding of the development of the universe, yet also believes in one of the major religions, then presumably a god sat idle for 13.7 billion years – waiting as the stars, galaxies and planets formed. Then it watched with complete and utter indifference as modern Homo Sapians evolved, struggled and died for 150,000 years. Finally, a few thousand years ago, this god suddenly decided to reveal itself to a hand ful of people in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared.

You can say anything you like. I'm not on a message board because I expect people to shut up. But just because your particular belief as to the nature of God doesn't make any sense to you is not evidence regarding the existence of God. It just means your belief doesn't make sense.

When you hear the story of Zeus, do you believe he once existed? I bet you if you lived back in ancient Greece you would believe in him and you would say lightening bolts are your evidence and that I have no evidence Zeus is not real. You would ask me to prove Zeus is not real.

Can you prove Zeus is not real? Then he must be real. Right? Or believe in him is just as valid as not believing, right?

No, I don't believe Zeus was real. Do you have a point?

Do you believe that the god of the bible is real?

 

[orogenicman]

Atheism is just another belief system. There is absolutely nothing moral about it. All you are really saying is "This is what I believe and everyone should think like me." Just another true believer.

If your religion doesn't make sense to us, just like Islam or Mormonism or the Greek Gods don't to you, isn't it moral to speak the truth? If we think religion is a lie that holds people back, shouldn't we speak up? Look at how ISIS uses god. Its not a healthy concept. "They" use it to brainwash/control you.

If one accepts the prevailing scientific understanding of the development of the universe, yet also believes in one of the major religions, then presumably a god sat idle for 13.7 billion years – waiting as the stars, galaxies and planets formed. Then it watched with complete and utter indifference as modern Homo Sapians evolved, struggled and died for 150,000 years. Finally, a few thousand years ago, this god suddenly decided to reveal itself to a hand ful of people in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared.

You can say anything you like. I'm not on a message board because I expect people to shut up. But just because your particular belief as to the nature of God doesn't make any sense to you is not evidence regarding the existence of God. It just means your belief doesn't make sense.

I understand all the reasons you believe in god. I get it! You can't see how without a god. That's cool. I'm just telling you that as a scientist we see zero hard evidence of a god(s) existence. But that hasn't stopped humans. For thousands of years we've been having this debate. Well, whenever we've been allowed. There have been plenty of times when you could not even question this. This is another reason I know god is all made up. They forced it onto us for so long that now it might be hard wired into us. We want to believe we are special. We hate not knowing things. And this we truly don't know.

Us Atheists understand all the phylisophical arguments for why people believe in gods. Us skeptics are just letting you know none of your arguments prove a god exists. And we admit we can't prove your invisible imaginary friend is not real.

Then we have the organized religions who say that god visited their ancestors 2000 years ago in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared..

Here is how I see it. Imagine there has been a murder. A man is accused of murdering someone in a stadium during a ball game. The jury is shown all the evidence and asked to weigh that evidence before rendering judgment. The jury comes back and says they are hung on his guilt or innocence. This is so because one person refuses to agree with the rest on his guilt. This juror does this despite the fact that thousands of people at the stadium witnessed the murder, despite the fact that 100 cameras recorded the incident, despite the fact that the accused has admitted to his guilt. The juror refuses to find him guilty based solely on the off chance that out there somewhere there might be some evidence that was missed. We are asked to believe in something despite the utter lack of evidence in favor of it being true.

If your religion doesn't make sense to us, just like Islam or Mormonism or the Greek Gods don't to you, isn't it moral to speak the truth? If we think religion is a lie that holds people back, shouldn't we speak up? Look at how ISIS uses god. Its not a healthy concept. "They" use it to brainwash/control you.

If one accepts the prevailing scientific understanding of the development of the universe, yet also believes in one of the major religions, then presumably a god sat idle for 13.7 billion years – waiting as the stars, galaxies and planets formed. Then it watched with complete and utter indifference as modern Homo Sapians evolved, struggled and died for 150,000 years. Finally, a few thousand years ago, this god suddenly decided to reveal itself to a hand ful of people in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared.

You can say anything you like. I'm not on a message board because I expect people to shut up. But just because your particular belief as to the nature of God doesn't make any sense to you is not evidence regarding the existence of God. It just means your belief doesn't make sense.

You are free to promote your belief in god. However, your belief is absent support.

You lead your argument by deferring to "God ", a reference to a unique and partisan supernatural entity. It's just a fact that there has never been any objective evidence for any of the human inventions of gawds, past or present. And with a historical perspective, we can identify your God as merely an invention of a supernatural entity that is an accumulation of hand-me-down attributes of earlier gawds, all rolled up into a three stop shopping gawds of convenience.

It's therefore a rational and legitimate conclusion that the supernatural entities that have been distilled into the God you refer to is merely your partisan belief.

Of course my belief is absent support. Have you paid no attention to anything I have ever written? Absolutely zero support. I fully acknowledge that. What you don't accept is that your belief also has zero support. The only rational and scientific position one can take in the absolute absence of evidence is neutrality, and you are most definitely not neutral. So claiming your position is rational and scientific shows and total lack of understanding of what those words mean.

How odd that you argue in support of a position you insist has no support.

Anyway, let's use your "standards", such as they are, in connection with the "you can't prove it isn't", argument and apply those standards to your belief systems of Leprechaun'ism, Bigfoot'ism, Nessie'ism, alien abduction'ism, etc.

Per you "standards", belief in those entities and associations is just as viable as not. Are we to accept that your belief system of Leprechaun'ism is a valid belief system because Leprechauns haven't been absolutely proven to not exist?

I do not argue in support of anything. I am simply pointing out that your unsupported belief is no different than any other unsupported belief.

Atheism is not a belief. It is a disbelief.

 

[PratchettFan]

A lack of evidence means that no conclusion can be arrived at. It does not support a negative conclusion any more than it supports a positive one. Your position is pure belief, and belief is belief whether negative or positive.

That isn't actually true. A lack of scientific evidence drastically reduces the probability of there being a god. And yes, even a probability of 0.0001 is not 0, but it is close enough in my book.

It is actually true. What is not true is that a lack of evidence reduces the probability of anything.

If you believe that, then you don't understand probability.

You have no idea what it is you are saying does not exist. You have no idea what evidence for its existence would be. You are in a state of absolute ignorance and you think you have arrived at a rational conclusion? That conclusion is utter fantasy and it is no different than the conclusion the thing your know nothing about exists. The only rational application of probability in this issue is 50/50, because there is no evidence of any sort to support higher odds on either side. Anything other than 50/50 is pure, unsupported belief.

Your position isn't rational. It is not scientific. The only word which would come close to describing it is "religious".

Wow, so you are going to make this personal, are you? Careful what you wish for.

When there is no scientific evidence to support the argument for the existence of a god, the notion that the probability for or against are somehow 50/50 is merely wishful thinking.

I do understand probability. I use it all the time in my work and I wouldn't last long making predictions if I did it without any evidence. There is no scientific evidence to support any argument for the existence or non-existence of god. To say the odds are in favor of non-existence is merely wishful thinking.

No need to take anything personal. I think what I said was absolutely accurate and you can replace the word "I" for "you" in that as well. I have no idea what it is. But do prove me wrong. Tell me what God is.

You tell me I am ignorant and have no idea what I am talking about (and you say this despite the fact that you don't know me much less know what I do and do not know) and then tell me that it is nothing personal. You should try that joke in Vegas. I'm sure it will get a lot of laughs. There is no scientific evidence to support the claim that god exists. There is plenty of evidence to support the claim that the god of the bible and just about every other religion does not exist. One large bit of evidence is that every religion uses the god of the gaps argument (none more so than Christianity), the argument being that god can be found in the gaps of our knowledge. (i.e., We don't know what causes the rainbow, that must be a gift from god, or god is punishing us for our sins by striking us with that tsunami). The problem with that argument is that science keeps filling in those gaps with sound scientific explanations and principles that don't require the existence of god. And so when we look at the laws of physics, the principles of chemistry, geology, and biology, we see a universe that acts exactly as if no god exists because all these laws and principles tell us that the supernatural is not needed to explain anything. In fact, "god did it" doesn't explain anything at all.

Yes. I said you were ignorant. You are operating without any evidence at all, so ignorant is all you can be. I am saying everyone is ignorant. If you want to take that personally, that is your choice.

I assume you can't tell me what God is. You can just refer to other people's beliefs, which themselves have no basis in evidence. Yet you say you can establish as a high probability that something you can't describe, can't define and know nothing about does not exist. This is fantasy.

Your claim that the laws of physics, et al act as if no god exists assumes more knowledge you do not have. How exactly would a universe where god did exist differ from a universe where it did not? How would you tell the difference?

 

[PratchettFan]

If your religion doesn't make sense to us, just like Islam or Mormonism or the Greek Gods don't to you, isn't it moral to speak the truth? If we think religion is a lie that holds people back, shouldn't we speak up? Look at how ISIS uses god. Its not a healthy concept. "They" use it to brainwash/control you.

If one accepts the prevailing scientific understanding of the development of the universe, yet also believes in one of the major religions, then presumably a god sat idle for 13.7 billion years – waiting as the stars, galaxies and planets formed. Then it watched with complete and utter indifference as modern Homo Sapians evolved, struggled and died for 150,000 years. Finally, a few thousand years ago, this god suddenly decided to reveal itself to a hand ful of people in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared.

You can say anything you like. I'm not on a message board because I expect people to shut up. But just because your particular belief as to the nature of God doesn't make any sense to you is not evidence regarding the existence of God. It just means your belief doesn't make sense.

I understand all the reasons you believe in god. I get it! You can't see how without a god. That's cool. I'm just telling you that as a scientist we see zero hard evidence of a god(s) existence. But that hasn't stopped humans. For thousands of years we've been having this debate. Well, whenever we've been allowed. There have been plenty of times when you could not even question this. This is another reason I know god is all made up. They forced it onto us for so long that now it might be hard wired into us. We want to believe we are special. We hate not knowing things. And this we truly don't know.

Us Atheists understand all the phylisophical arguments for why people believe in gods. Us skeptics are just letting you know none of your arguments prove a god exists. And we admit we can't prove your invisible imaginary friend is not real.

Then we have the organized religions who say that god visited their ancestors 2000 years ago in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared..

Here is how I see it. Imagine there has been a murder. A man is accused of murdering someone in a stadium during a ball game. The jury is shown all the evidence and asked to weigh that evidence before rendering judgment. The jury comes back and says they are hung on his guilt or innocence. This is so because one person refuses to agree with the rest on his guilt. This juror does this despite the fact that thousands of people at the stadium witnessed the murder, despite the fact that 100 cameras recorded the incident, despite the fact that the accused has admitted to his guilt. The juror refuses to find him guilty based solely on the off chance that out there somewhere there might be some evidence that was missed. We are asked to believe in something despite the utter lack of evidence in favor of it being true.

You can say anything you like. I'm not on a message board because I expect people to shut up. But just because your particular belief as to the nature of God doesn't make any sense to you is not evidence regarding the existence of God. It just means your belief doesn't make sense.

You are free to promote your belief in god. However, your belief is absent support.

You lead your argument by deferring to "God ", a reference to a unique and partisan supernatural entity. It's just a fact that there has never been any objective evidence for any of the human inventions of gawds, past or present. And with a historical perspective, we can identify your God as merely an invention of a supernatural entity that is an accumulation of hand-me-down attributes of earlier gawds, all rolled up into a three stop shopping gawds of convenience.

It's therefore a rational and legitimate conclusion that the supernatural entities that have been distilled into the God you refer to is merely your partisan belief.

Of course my belief is absent support. Have you paid no attention to anything I have ever written? Absolutely zero support. I fully acknowledge that. What you don't accept is that your belief also has zero support. The only rational and scientific position one can take in the absolute absence of evidence is neutrality, and you are most definitely not neutral. So claiming your position is rational and scientific shows and total lack of understanding of what those words mean.

How odd that you argue in support of a position you insist has no support.

Anyway, let's use your "standards", such as they are, in connection with the "you can't prove it isn't", argument and apply those standards to your belief systems of Leprechaun'ism, Bigfoot'ism, Nessie'ism, alien abduction'ism, etc.

Per you "standards", belief in those entities and associations is just as viable as not. Are we to accept that your belief system of Leprechaun'ism is a valid belief system because Leprechauns haven't been absolutely proven to not exist?

I do not argue in support of anything. I am simply pointing out that your unsupported belief is no different than any other unsupported belief.

Atheism is not a belief. It is a disbelief.

Bullshit.

 

[PratchettFan]

Atheism is just another belief system. There is absolutely nothing moral about it. All you are really saying is "This is what I believe and everyone should think like me." Just another true believer.

If your religion doesn't make sense to us, just like Islam or Mormonism or the Greek Gods don't to you, isn't it moral to speak the truth? If we think religion is a lie that holds people back, shouldn't we speak up? Look at how ISIS uses god. Its not a healthy concept. "They" use it to brainwash/control you.

If one accepts the prevailing scientific understanding of the development of the universe, yet also believes in one of the major religions, then presumably a god sat idle for 13.7 billion years – waiting as the stars, galaxies and planets formed. Then it watched with complete and utter indifference as modern Homo Sapians evolved, struggled and died for 150,000 years. Finally, a few thousand years ago, this god suddenly decided to reveal itself to a hand ful of people in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared.

You can say anything you like. I'm not on a message board because I expect people to shut up. But just because your particular belief as to the nature of God doesn't make any sense to you is not evidence regarding the existence of God. It just means your belief doesn't make sense.

When you hear the story of Zeus, do you believe he once existed? I bet you if you lived back in ancient Greece you would believe in him and you would say lightening bolts are your evidence and that I have no evidence Zeus is not real. You would ask me to prove Zeus is not real.

Can you prove Zeus is not real? Then he must be real. Right? Or believe in him is just as valid as not believing, right?

No, I don't believe Zeus was real. Do you have a point?

Do you believe that the god of the bible is real?

No.

 

[PratchettFan]

If your religion doesn't make sense to us, just like Islam or Mormonism or the Greek Gods don't to you, isn't it moral to speak the truth? If we think religion is a lie that holds people back, shouldn't we speak up? Look at how ISIS uses god. Its not a healthy concept. "They" use it to brainwash/control you.

If one accepts the prevailing scientific understanding of the development of the universe, yet also believes in one of the major religions, then presumably a god sat idle for 13.7 billion years – waiting as the stars, galaxies and planets formed. Then it watched with complete and utter indifference as modern Homo Sapians evolved, struggled and died for 150,000 years. Finally, a few thousand years ago, this god suddenly decided to reveal itself to a hand ful of people in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared.

You can say anything you like. I'm not on a message board because I expect people to shut up. But just because your particular belief as to the nature of God doesn't make any sense to you is not evidence regarding the existence of God. It just means your belief doesn't make sense.

I understand all the reasons you believe in god. I get it! You can't see how without a god. That's cool. I'm just telling you that as a scientist we see zero hard evidence of a god(s) existence. But that hasn't stopped humans. For thousands of years we've been having this debate. Well, whenever we've been allowed. There have been plenty of times when you could not even question this. This is another reason I know god is all made up. They forced it onto us for so long that now it might be hard wired into us. We want to believe we are special. We hate not knowing things. And this we truly don't know.

Us Atheists understand all the phylisophical arguments for why people believe in gods. Us skeptics are just letting you know none of your arguments prove a god exists. And we admit we can't prove your invisible imaginary friend is not real.

Then we have the organized religions who say that god visited their ancestors 2000 years ago in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared..

Here is how I see it. Imagine there has been a murder. A man is accused of murdering someone in a stadium during a ball game. The jury is shown all the evidence and asked to weigh that evidence before rendering judgment. The jury comes back and says they are hung on his guilt or innocence. This is so because one person refuses to agree with the rest on his guilt. This juror does this despite the fact that thousands of people at the stadium witnessed the murder, despite the fact that 100 cameras recorded the incident, despite the fact that the accused has admitted to his guilt. The juror refuses to find him guilty based solely on the off chance that out there somewhere there might be some evidence that was missed. We are asked to believe in something despite the utter lack of evidence in favor of it being true.

You can say anything you like. I'm not on a message board because I expect people to shut up. But just because your particular belief as to the nature of God doesn't make any sense to you is not evidence regarding the existence of God. It just means your belief doesn't make sense.

You are free to promote your belief in god. However, your belief is absent support.

You lead your argument by deferring to "God ", a reference to a unique and partisan supernatural entity. It's just a fact that there has never been any objective evidence for any of the human inventions of gawds, past or present. And with a historical perspective, we can identify your God as merely an invention of a supernatural entity that is an accumulation of hand-me-down attributes of earlier gawds, all rolled up into a three stop shopping gawds of convenience.

It's therefore a rational and legitimate conclusion that the supernatural entities that have been distilled into the God you refer to is merely your partisan belief.

Of course my belief is absent support. Have you paid no attention to anything I have ever written? Absolutely zero support. I fully acknowledge that. What you don't accept is that your belief also has zero support. The only rational and scientific position one can take in the absolute absence of evidence is neutrality, and you are most definitely not neutral. So claiming your position is rational and scientific shows and total lack of understanding of what those words mean.

How odd that you argue in support of a position you insist has no support.

Anyway, let's use your "standards", such as they are, in connection with the "you can't prove it isn't", argument and apply those standards to your belief systems of Leprechaun'ism, Bigfoot'ism, Nessie'ism, alien abduction'ism, etc.

Per you "standards", belief in those entities and associations is just as viable as not. Are we to accept that your belief system of Leprechaun'ism is a valid belief system because Leprechauns haven't been absolutely proven to not exist?

I do not argue in support of anything. I am simply pointing out that your unsupported belief is no different than any other unsupported belief.

As you acknowledge you're not arguing in support of anything, why not tell me what belief you think I have that you're arguing in support of?

I am not arguing in support of your belief either. But you believe there is no god, which is fine. However, you also believe that just because you believe it it must be true, which is irrational.

 

[Dæmon]

To me, the question has always been, why, throughout history, have some people needed to believe in a god?

People are weak, have always been weak. They need some delusion that somebody takes care of them. Many people just can't stand the harsh realities of life.