Why can't people just be honest about religion?

[Uncensored2008]

Christians just can't admit that their religion makes zero sense. They literally worship a Jewish zombie who was his own father and had to kill himself to forgive us for our furthest ancestors eating a piece of fruit he knew they would eat when he made them. Muslims just can't admit that the Qur'an really does, no shit, teach terrorism and domestic violence. It's not even debatable; just read it for yourself. Jews just can't admit that their religion is more or less the foundation stone of modern Western bigotry. The West didn't really even have ideas like total genocidal war, blood purity, or a master race until the Old Testament was translated into their languages. Neopagans just can't accept that their religions are basically just shallow rip-offs of actual pagan religions combined with Jungian psychoanalysis and capitalism. Btw, Native peoples would really like you people in particular to stop selling their culture. I could go on, but I think this small list suffices for now to prove that, not only is there no true religion, there's not even one worth following. Atheism is the only moral position.

If you don't believe, why do you care?

What possible difference could it make to you, what others believe?

 

[orogenicman]

Christians just can't admit that their religion makes zero sense. They literally worship a Jewish zombie who was his own father and had to kill himself to forgive us for our furthest ancestors eating a piece of fruit he knew they would eat when he made them. Muslims just can't admit that the Qur'an really does, no shit, teach terrorism and domestic violence. It's not even debatable; just read it for yourself. Jews just can't admit that their religion is more or less the foundation stone of modern Western bigotry. The West didn't really even have ideas like total genocidal war, blood purity, or a master race until the Old Testament was translated into their languages. Neopagans just can't accept that their religions are basically just shallow rip-offs of actual pagan religions combined with Jungian psychoanalysis and capitalism. Btw, Native peoples would really like you people in particular to stop selling their culture. I could go on, but I think this small list suffices for now to prove that, not only is there no true religion, there's not even one worth following. Atheism is the only moral position.

If you don't believe, why do you care?

What possible difference could it make to you, what others believe?

Because this crap (religion and the hatred that comes with it) is destroying mankind, and the world in which we live. It ought to matter to everyone.

 

[PratchettFan]

No, it isn't. Atheism is a belief based on an absolute absence of information. It is nor more based in reality than theism. It is, in fact, just the other side of the "god" coin.

Religions see things that aren't there. Atheists simply acknowledge that what isn't there - isn't there. It isn't a belief. It is a disbelief in the supernatural.

Of course it is a belief. You have evidence that God isn't there? I would love to see it. If God were there, what evidence would you expect to find and what is the basis of that expectation? If you have no evidence, then the only thing your position can be is belief.

The default setting is atheism/disbelief. Then someone comes along and claims evidence for god. That evidence must, above all, pass the smell test, but also be repeatable, and testable. Otherwise, there is no reason to believe. But the existence of god cannot be tested, cannot be repeated, cannot be falsified. Faith is a belief in something not in evidence. That is why it is called faith, dude. You can't prove it, so you simply take it on faith. On the other hand, I don't take anything on faith. I don't have to prove that your god doesn't exist. You must prove that it does. Good luck with that.

"Revelation is necessarily limited to the first communication-- after that it is only an account of something which that person says was a revelation made to him; and though he may find himself obliged to believe it, it can not be incumbent on me to believe it in the same manner; for it was not a revelation made to ME, and I have only his word for it that it was made to him."

- Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason

So, you don't have any evidence upon which to base your conclusion. Which makes it belief. And I agree, that's why they call it faith. I'm just not accepting your faith is somehow different, because you have a belief in something not in evidence. Calling it the default doesn't change that. In fact, Atheism/disbelief is not the default. Neutrality is the default. We don't begin with disbelief, we begin with no opinion at all.

Dude, I don't need evidence of anything. I'm not the one making the claim here. You claim that god exists. Okay so it is up to you to prove the claim. It is not for me to prove or refute it because it is not my claim.

I have not claimed there is a God. I have no idea if there is or not. You have said, " Atheists simply acknowledge that what isn't there - isn't there." The claim is yours. What evidence do you have to support it?

 

[PratchettFan]

Christians just can't admit that their religion makes zero sense. They literally worship a Jewish zombie who was his own father and had to kill himself to forgive us for our furthest ancestors eating a piece of fruit he knew they would eat when he made them. Muslims just can't admit that the Qur'an really does, no shit, teach terrorism and domestic violence. It's not even debatable; just read it for yourself. Jews just can't admit that their religion is more or less the foundation stone of modern Western bigotry. The West didn't really even have ideas like total genocidal war, blood purity, or a master race until the Old Testament was translated into their languages. Neopagans just can't accept that their religions are basically just shallow rip-offs of actual pagan religions combined with Jungian psychoanalysis and capitalism. Btw, Native peoples would really like you people in particular to stop selling their culture. I could go on, but I think this small list suffices for now to prove that, not only is there no true religion, there's not even one worth following. Atheism is the only moral position.

If you don't believe, why do you care?

What possible difference could it make to you, what others believe?

Because this crap (religion and the hatred that comes with it) is destroying mankind, and the world in which we live. It ought to matter to everyone.

No. It isn't. That is just an unsupported belief which, upon any reflection at all, is obviously false. Religion is nothing more than human interaction and any hatred comes from the humans, not the religion. To suggest that by getting rid of religion the humans will suddenly begin acting differently is absurd.

 

[orogenicman]

Religions see things that aren't there. Atheists simply acknowledge that what isn't there - isn't there. It isn't a belief. It is a disbelief in the supernatural.

Of course it is a belief. You have evidence that God isn't there? I would love to see it. If God were there, what evidence would you expect to find and what is the basis of that expectation? If you have no evidence, then the only thing your position can be is belief.

The default setting is atheism/disbelief. Then someone comes along and claims evidence for god. That evidence must, above all, pass the smell test, but also be repeatable, and testable. Otherwise, there is no reason to believe. But the existence of god cannot be tested, cannot be repeated, cannot be falsified. Faith is a belief in something not in evidence. That is why it is called faith, dude. You can't prove it, so you simply take it on faith. On the other hand, I don't take anything on faith. I don't have to prove that your god doesn't exist. You must prove that it does. Good luck with that.

"Revelation is necessarily limited to the first communication-- after that it is only an account of something which that person says was a revelation made to him; and though he may find himself obliged to believe it, it can not be incumbent on me to believe it in the same manner; for it was not a revelation made to ME, and I have only his word for it that it was made to him."

- Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason

So, you don't have any evidence upon which to base your conclusion. Which makes it belief. And I agree, that's why they call it faith. I'm just not accepting your faith is somehow different, because you have a belief in something not in evidence. Calling it the default doesn't change that. In fact, Atheism/disbelief is not the default. Neutrality is the default. We don't begin with disbelief, we begin with no opinion at all.

Dude, I don't need evidence of anything. I'm not the one making the claim here. You claim that god exists. Okay so it is up to you to prove the claim. It is not for me to prove or refute it because it is not my claim.

I have not claimed there is a God. I have no idea if there is or not. You have said, " Atheists simply acknowledge that what isn't there - isn't there." The claim is yours. What evidence do you have to support it?

It isn't the evidence that counts in this instance. It is the glaring lack of evidence that counts.

 

[orogenicman]

Christians just can't admit that their religion makes zero sense. They literally worship a Jewish zombie who was his own father and had to kill himself to forgive us for our furthest ancestors eating a piece of fruit he knew they would eat when he made them. Muslims just can't admit that the Qur'an really does, no shit, teach terrorism and domestic violence. It's not even debatable; just read it for yourself. Jews just can't admit that their religion is more or less the foundation stone of modern Western bigotry. The West didn't really even have ideas like total genocidal war, blood purity, or a master race until the Old Testament was translated into their languages. Neopagans just can't accept that their religions are basically just shallow rip-offs of actual pagan religions combined with Jungian psychoanalysis and capitalism. Btw, Native peoples would really like you people in particular to stop selling their culture. I could go on, but I think this small list suffices for now to prove that, not only is there no true religion, there's not even one worth following. Atheism is the only moral position.

If you don't believe, why do you care?

What possible difference could it make to you, what others believe?

Because this crap (religion and the hatred that comes with it) is destroying mankind, and the world in which we live. It ought to matter to everyone.

No. It isn't. That is just an unsupported belief which, upon any reflection at all, is obviously false. Religion is nothing more than human interaction and any hatred comes from the humans, not the religion. To suggest that by getting rid of religion the humans will suddenly begin acting differently is absurd.

With the exception of the conflict in the Ukraine, every single war and armed conflict in the world today is a religious war. So no it is most certainly not false. Even our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan had religious overtones.

 

[Meriweather]

With the exception of the conflict in the Ukraine, every single war and armed conflict in the world today is a religious war. So no it is most certainly not false. Even our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan had religious overtones.

They also had overtones of power and greed. Religion is a tool some use as backing to claim power and wealth. It sounds so much more reasonable than, "You have power and wealth--and now I want it for myself. P.S. God said I could have it, so there."

 

[orogenicman]

With the exception of the conflict in the Ukraine, every single war and armed conflict in the world today is a religious war. So no it is most certainly not false. Even our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan had religious overtones.

They also had overtones of power and greed. Religion is a tool some use as backing to claim power and wealth. It sounds so much more reasonable than, "You have power and wealth--and now I want it for myself. P.S. God said I could have it, so there."

Religion has been used to grab power and wealth as far back as one cares to go in history. Worship that? Not on a bet.

 

[Meriweather]

Religion has been used to grab power and wealth as far back as one cares to go in history. Worship that? Not on a bet.

Nor should you worship power and wealth. Are you aware that scripture taught that any missionary who came into a community asking for money was to be shunned, booted out, and no one was to have anything to do with such a person? The early Church was fully aware that a community of caring givers would attract the greedy. A ready-made community also attracts those who hunger for power.

Why is it that instead of being protective of those who gather in love, goodness, and friendship you sneer and snarl at them for being magnets to the powerful and greedy? Why not save such vitriol for those whose goal is to fleece, instead of unleashing it upon those who simply wish to learn to love as God does?

Not only do men of peace and goodwill have the wolves to fight off, they have critics like you to fend off as well. Meanwhile the rich and powerful are snickering, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend..."

 

[orogenicman]

Religion has been used to grab power and wealth as far back as one cares to go in history. Worship that? Not on a bet.

Nor should you worship power and wealth. Are you aware that scripture taught that any missionary who came into a community asking for money was to be shunned, booted out, and no one was to have anything to do with such a person? The early Church was fully aware that a community of caring givers would attract the greedy. A ready-made community also attracts those who hunger for power.

Why is it that instead of being protective of those who gather in love, goodness, and friendship you sneer and snarl at them for being magnets to the powerful and greedy? Why not save such vitriol for those whose goal is to fleece, instead of unleashing it upon those who simply wish to learn to love as God does?

Not only do men of peace and goodwill have the wolves to fight off, they have critics like you to fend off as well. Meanwhile the rich and powerful are snickering, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend..."

Because I see the "six flags over Jesus" churches going up all over the country and understand intuitively that "gathering in love, goodness, and friendship" is NOT the primary mission of these religions. You don't need a 60 million dollar facility in order to "gather in love, goodness, and friendship". It is shameful waste of money considering all the utterly destitute people there are in this world.

 

[PratchettFan]

Of course it is a belief. You have evidence that God isn't there? I would love to see it. If God were there, what evidence would you expect to find and what is the basis of that expectation? If you have no evidence, then the only thing your position can be is belief.

The default setting is atheism/disbelief. Then someone comes along and claims evidence for god. That evidence must, above all, pass the smell test, but also be repeatable, and testable. Otherwise, there is no reason to believe. But the existence of god cannot be tested, cannot be repeated, cannot be falsified. Faith is a belief in something not in evidence. That is why it is called faith, dude. You can't prove it, so you simply take it on faith. On the other hand, I don't take anything on faith. I don't have to prove that your god doesn't exist. You must prove that it does. Good luck with that.

"Revelation is necessarily limited to the first communication-- after that it is only an account of something which that person says was a revelation made to him; and though he may find himself obliged to believe it, it can not be incumbent on me to believe it in the same manner; for it was not a revelation made to ME, and I have only his word for it that it was made to him."

- Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason

So, you don't have any evidence upon which to base your conclusion. Which makes it belief. And I agree, that's why they call it faith. I'm just not accepting your faith is somehow different, because you have a belief in something not in evidence. Calling it the default doesn't change that. In fact, Atheism/disbelief is not the default. Neutrality is the default. We don't begin with disbelief, we begin with no opinion at all.

Dude, I don't need evidence of anything. I'm not the one making the claim here. You claim that god exists. Okay so it is up to you to prove the claim. It is not for me to prove or refute it because it is not my claim.

I have not claimed there is a God. I have no idea if there is or not. You have said, " Atheists simply acknowledge that what isn't there - isn't there." The claim is yours. What evidence do you have to support it?

It isn't the evidence that counts in this instance. It is the glaring lack of evidence that counts.

A lack of evidence means that no conclusion can be arrived at. It does not support a negative conclusion any more than it supports a positive one. Your position is pure belief, and belief is belief whether negative or positive.

 

[PratchettFan]

Christians just can't admit that their religion makes zero sense. They literally worship a Jewish zombie who was his own father and had to kill himself to forgive us for our furthest ancestors eating a piece of fruit he knew they would eat when he made them. Muslims just can't admit that the Qur'an really does, no shit, teach terrorism and domestic violence. It's not even debatable; just read it for yourself. Jews just can't admit that their religion is more or less the foundation stone of modern Western bigotry. The West didn't really even have ideas like total genocidal war, blood purity, or a master race until the Old Testament was translated into their languages. Neopagans just can't accept that their religions are basically just shallow rip-offs of actual pagan religions combined with Jungian psychoanalysis and capitalism. Btw, Native peoples would really like you people in particular to stop selling their culture. I could go on, but I think this small list suffices for now to prove that, not only is there no true religion, there's not even one worth following. Atheism is the only moral position.

If you don't believe, why do you care?

What possible difference could it make to you, what others believe?

Because this crap (religion and the hatred that comes with it) is destroying mankind, and the world in which we live. It ought to matter to everyone.

No. It isn't. That is just an unsupported belief which, upon any reflection at all, is obviously false. Religion is nothing more than human interaction and any hatred comes from the humans, not the religion. To suggest that by getting rid of religion the humans will suddenly begin acting differently is absurd.

With the exception of the conflict in the Ukraine, every single war and armed conflict in the world today is a religious war. So no it is most certainly not false. Even our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan had religious overtones.

Every war that has ever been fought in our entire history has been fought by people. Take away the religion, and you still have the people. Take away the politics, and the people remain. Human beings fight wars, not little symbols. People do not act the way they do because of religion, religion operates the way it does because of people. It's all us and the rest is just an excuse.

 

[orogenicman]

The default setting is atheism/disbelief. Then someone comes along and claims evidence for god. That evidence must, above all, pass the smell test, but also be repeatable, and testable. Otherwise, there is no reason to believe. But the existence of god cannot be tested, cannot be repeated, cannot be falsified. Faith is a belief in something not in evidence. That is why it is called faith, dude. You can't prove it, so you simply take it on faith. On the other hand, I don't take anything on faith. I don't have to prove that your god doesn't exist. You must prove that it does. Good luck with that.

"Revelation is necessarily limited to the first communication-- after that it is only an account of something which that person says was a revelation made to him; and though he may find himself obliged to believe it, it can not be incumbent on me to believe it in the same manner; for it was not a revelation made to ME, and I have only his word for it that it was made to him."

- Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason

So, you don't have any evidence upon which to base your conclusion. Which makes it belief. And I agree, that's why they call it faith. I'm just not accepting your faith is somehow different, because you have a belief in something not in evidence. Calling it the default doesn't change that. In fact, Atheism/disbelief is not the default. Neutrality is the default. We don't begin with disbelief, we begin with no opinion at all.

Dude, I don't need evidence of anything. I'm not the one making the claim here. You claim that god exists. Okay so it is up to you to prove the claim. It is not for me to prove or refute it because it is not my claim.

I have not claimed there is a God. I have no idea if there is or not. You have said, " Atheists simply acknowledge that what isn't there - isn't there." The claim is yours. What evidence do you have to support it?

It isn't the evidence that counts in this instance. It is the glaring lack of evidence that counts.

A lack of evidence means that no conclusion can be arrived at. It does not support a negative conclusion any more than it supports a positive one. Your position is pure belief, and belief is belief whether negative or positive.

That isn't actually true. A lack of scientific evidence drastically reduces the probability of there being a god. And yes, even a probability of 0.0001 is not 0, but it is close enough in my book.

 

[orogenicman]

Christians just can't admit that their religion makes zero sense. They literally worship a Jewish zombie who was his own father and had to kill himself to forgive us for our furthest ancestors eating a piece of fruit he knew they would eat when he made them. Muslims just can't admit that the Qur'an really does, no shit, teach terrorism and domestic violence. It's not even debatable; just read it for yourself. Jews just can't admit that their religion is more or less the foundation stone of modern Western bigotry. The West didn't really even have ideas like total genocidal war, blood purity, or a master race until the Old Testament was translated into their languages. Neopagans just can't accept that their religions are basically just shallow rip-offs of actual pagan religions combined with Jungian psychoanalysis and capitalism. Btw, Native peoples would really like you people in particular to stop selling their culture. I could go on, but I think this small list suffices for now to prove that, not only is there no true religion, there's not even one worth following. Atheism is the only moral position.

If you don't believe, why do you care?

What possible difference could it make to you, what others believe?

Because this crap (religion and the hatred that comes with it) is destroying mankind, and the world in which we live. It ought to matter to everyone.

No. It isn't. That is just an unsupported belief which, upon any reflection at all, is obviously false. Religion is nothing more than human interaction and any hatred comes from the humans, not the religion. To suggest that by getting rid of religion the humans will suddenly begin acting differently is absurd.

With the exception of the conflict in the Ukraine, every single war and armed conflict in the world today is a religious war. So no it is most certainly not false. Even our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan had religious overtones.

Every war that has ever been fought in our entire history has been fought by people. Take away the religion, and you still have the people. Take away the politics, and the people remain. Human beings fight wars, not little symbols. People do not act the way they do because of religion, religion operates the way it does because of people. It's all us and the rest is just an excuse.

Oh I do love your compartmentalization of duplicity.

 

[Meriweather]

Because I see the "six flags over Jesus" churches going up all over the country and understand intuitively that "gathering in love, goodness, and friendship" is NOT the primary mission of these religions. You don't need a 60 million dollar facility in order to "gather in love, goodness, and friendship". It is shameful waste of money considering all the utterly destitute people there are in this world.

I ran a search on $60 million dollar churches, and could only locate a few--none of which are in my area. On the other hand, I know of at least three churches within walking distance of me who have no building of their own, but use school facilities to gather and worship. While this is not true now, there have been a couple of times in my life that my church used school facilities on Sundays as well.

On the grounds of my current church are facilities that help to feed, clothe, and shelter the poor. Three blocks away is another church, and on their grounds is also a facility to help clothe and care for the poor.

I also teach. Some students seem to find school merely as the place to gather and socialize with friends. Just because this is so does not negate the fact that schools are also learning institutions and many students pursue studies seriously and gain knowledge and skills.

Is it being objective--or is it simply emotional--to level accusations at all people and every church that they are responsible for all the wars in the world's history?

The type of questions people of faith mull over is whether, like at the beginning of World War II, Christians should be calling for peace--or whether if Christians had acted sooner, fewer atrocities would have been committed.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Religion is just a popular form of brainwashing.

 

[Meriweather]

Religion is just a popular form of brainwashing.

Actually, it's brain expansion. Religion lifts one out of self and a narrow world.

 

[hobelim]

Religion is just a popular form of brainwashing.

Actually, it's brain expansion. Religion lifts one out of self and a narrow world.

Right. For anyone who fails to use the intelligence that God gave a baboon and neglects to include well known, long established and universally accepted facts about the nature of reality in their speculations the world suddenly becomes a very large and confusing wilderness where anything is possible- one unequaled God can also be three coequal beings, the dead come out of their graves, people float up into the sky, invisible demons are lurking everywhere, blindness can be cured with spit and mud, and God is edible and can be handed out like a cheap snack food and eaten by humans..

You can call it brain expansion if you like, I call it the boundless stupidity of an unrestrained imagination.

"Enter through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and easy is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For narrow is the gate and difficult is the way that leads to life, and few are they who find it."

Remember?

 

[Meriweather]

You can call it brain expansion if you like, I call it the boundless stupidity of an unrestrained imagination.

There is more to existence than self and what self wants. Our greatest desire is to love, as well as be loved by more than just oneself.

Love of God entails obedience, which lies in learning to discern the will of God and then to follow it. Loving others causes self-love to pale into insignificance. What is knowledge compared to love? Not, you understand, that I am suggesting we do without knowledge. I am saying our relationship with God and our fellowman is the prime mover in fulfilling self's greatest potential.

 

[orogenicman]

Because I see the "six flags over Jesus" churches going up all over the country and understand intuitively that "gathering in love, goodness, and friendship" is NOT the primary mission of these religions. You don't need a 60 million dollar facility in order to "gather in love, goodness, and friendship". It is shameful waste of money considering all the utterly destitute people there are in this world.

I ran a search on $60 million dollar churches, and could only locate a few--none of which are in my area. On the other hand, I know of at least three churches within walking distance of me who have no building of their own, but use school facilities to gather and worship. While this is not true now, there have been a couple of times in my life that my church used school facilities on Sundays as well.

On the grounds of my current church are facilities that help to feed, clothe, and shelter the poor. Three blocks away is another church, and on their grounds is also a facility to help clothe and care for the poor.

I also teach. Some students seem to find school merely as the place to gather and socialize with friends. Just because this is so does not negate the fact that schools are also learning institutions and many students pursue studies seriously and gain knowledge and skills.

Is it being objective--or is it simply emotional--to level accusations at all people and every church that they are responsible for all the wars in the world's history?

The type of questions people of faith mull over is whether, like at the beginning of World War II, Christians should be calling for peace--or whether if Christians had acted sooner, fewer atrocities would have been committed.

Six flags over Jesus.