Why can't people just be honest about religion?

[hobelim]

You can call it brain expansion if you like, I call it the boundless stupidity of an unrestrained imagination.

There is more to existence than self and what self wants. Our greatest desire is to love, as well as be loved by more than just oneself.

Love of God entails obedience, which lies in learning to discern the will of God and then to follow it. Loving others causes self-love to pale into insignificance. What is knowledge compared to love? Not, you understand, that I am suggesting we do without knowledge. I am saying our relationship with God and our fellowman is the prime mover in fulfilling self's greatest potential.

That's all well and good but by the same token ones relationship with God and our fellowmen can be the prime mover in fulfilling self's greatest potential to cause harm if one fails to discern the will of God for lack of knowledge and understanding. As it stands your belief is that one unequaled God is the same thing as a coequal trinity, a god made man made matzo made by human hands that must be worshiped and eaten to receive eternal life which is absurdity not to mention disobedience to the revealed will of God in the prohibition to refrain from worshiping that which is made by human hands..

If scripture is true, your eucharistic worship shows that your relationship with and love for he who truly is God couldn't be more imaginary as is your professed love for others that you mislead to their destruction by teaching them to set aside the divine commands and brazenly practice idolatry.

Either you have made great errors in your own speculations or you have been misled yourself but for you to continue to mislead others as you do amounts to intentional sin, specifically perjury in the name of God, adultery, sorcery and murder, and your religious practice amounts to a desecration of the teachings of Jesus and an expression of pure hatred for God.

I am really happy to hear that you have found peace in what you practice and profess to believe about your edible coequal triune godman...

You have your reward already! Congratulations.

Personally, I'd rather be drawn and quartered than to willingly defy the living God from whose hand there is no escape either in this world or the next.

to each his own.



..

 

[sealybobo]

Christians just can't admit that their religion makes zero sense. They literally worship a Jewish zombie who was his own father and had to kill himself to forgive us for our furthest ancestors eating a piece of fruit he knew they would eat when he made them. Muslims just can't admit that the Qur'an really does, no shit, teach terrorism and domestic violence. It's not even debatable; just read it for yourself. Jews just can't admit that their religion is more or less the foundation stone of modern Western bigotry. The West didn't really even have ideas like total genocidal war, blood purity, or a master race until the Old Testament was translated into their languages. Neopagans just can't accept that their religions are basically just shallow rip-offs of actual pagan religions combined with Jungian psychoanalysis and capitalism. Btw, Native peoples would really like you people in particular to stop selling their culture. I could go on, but I think this small list suffices for now to prove that, not only is there no true religion, there's not even one worth following. Atheism is the only moral position.

You rock!

This is why I say religion holds us back, keeps people dumb and "they" use it to keep us down.

And Jesus didn't come back because of what Adam and Eve did. God punished us for Adam and Eve by making us mortal. Of course we were horrible and so he had to wipe us out during Noah's time. It wasn't until after Noah's kids made incest and re populated the earth with a bunch of new assholes that god decided to come back again only this time on a suicide mission. And did that solve the problem? NOPE. We're all still a bunch of assholes. In fact some of the biggest assholes I know are Christians.

 

[sealybobo]

The default setting is atheism/disbelief. Then someone comes along and claims evidence for god. That evidence must, above all, pass the smell test, but also be repeatable, and testable. Otherwise, there is no reason to believe. But the existence of god cannot be tested, cannot be repeated, cannot be falsified. Faith is a belief in something not in evidence. That is why it is called faith, dude. You can't prove it, so you simply take it on faith. On the other hand, I don't take anything on faith. I don't have to prove that your god doesn't exist. You must prove that it does. Good luck with that.

"Revelation is necessarily limited to the first communication-- after that it is only an account of something which that person says was a revelation made to him; and though he may find himself obliged to believe it, it can not be incumbent on me to believe it in the same manner; for it was not a revelation made to ME, and I have only his word for it that it was made to him."

- Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason

So, you don't have any evidence upon which to base your conclusion. Which makes it belief. And I agree, that's why they call it faith. I'm just not accepting your faith is somehow different, because you have a belief in something not in evidence. Calling it the default doesn't change that. In fact, Atheism/disbelief is not the default. Neutrality is the default. We don't begin with disbelief, we begin with no opinion at all.

Dude, I don't need evidence of anything. I'm not the one making the claim here. You claim that god exists. Okay so it is up to you to prove the claim. It is not for me to prove or refute it because it is not my claim.

I have not claimed there is a God. I have no idea if there is or not. You have said, " Atheists simply acknowledge that what isn't there - isn't there." The claim is yours. What evidence do you have to support it?

It isn't the evidence that counts in this instance. It is the glaring lack of evidence that counts.

A lack of evidence means that no conclusion can be arrived at. It does not support a negative conclusion any more than it supports a positive one. Your position is pure belief, and belief is belief whether negative or positive.

This morning on TCT tv a lady was telling kids that Jesus fed 5000 people with 5 loaves of bread and 3 fish. So in 1 second I knew this story was bullshit.

Do you think because I can't prove Jesus didn't feed 5000 with 5 loaves and 3 fish that this somehow makes your belief it happened just as credible as my disbelief?

 

[sealybobo]

Oh goody goody - a thread with something to offend almost everyone,

Pagans don't believe in or worship a "god". They believe in the inherent duality of nature.

To me, the question has always been, why, throughout history, have some people needed to believe in a god?

What do you mean when you say the duality of nature?

du·al·i·ty

1. the quality or condition of being dual.
   "the novel's deep duality about human motive.
2. an instance of opposition or contrast between two concepts or two aspects of something; a dualism.

 

[sealybobo]

Christians just can't admit that their religion makes zero sense. They literally worship a Jewish zombie who was his own father and had to kill himself to forgive us for our furthest ancestors eating a piece of fruit he knew they would eat when he made them.

This Christian can admit you make zero sense of religion, and not even good satire.

The simple message of Christianity is that there is a being who has more knowledge and power than humans; who loves us and cares about the little bits and pieces that make up each of our lives. This being, who we call God, became man so that he could model a full and abundant life--and to show that pursuing God, even through death, will result in victory and eternal life. Love God with with all our being. Love our fellowman as oneself. Religion makes sense.

1. There is a being who has more knowledge and power than humans? Do you have any proof of this? Seems more to me we made up this character.

2. Who loves us and cares about us? This is wishful thinking.

3. You can take out the "love god" part and just say "Love our fellowman as oneself" and then I'd agree with you. The god part isn't necessary.

 

[sealybobo]

Christians just can't admit that their religion makes zero sense. They literally worship a Jewish zombie who was his own father and had to kill himself to forgive us for our furthest ancestors eating a piece of fruit he knew they would eat when he made them. Muslims just can't admit that the Qur'an really does, no shit, teach terrorism and domestic violence. It's not even debatable; just read it for yourself. Jews just can't admit that their religion is more or less the foundation stone of modern Western bigotry. The West didn't really even have ideas like total genocidal war, blood purity, or a master race until the Old Testament was translated into their languages. Neopagans just can't accept that their religions are basically just shallow rip-offs of actual pagan religions combined with Jungian psychoanalysis and capitalism. Btw, Native peoples would really like you people in particular to stop selling their culture. I could go on, but I think this small list suffices for now to prove that, not only is there no true religion, there's not even one worth following. Atheism is the only moral position.

Atheism is just another belief system. There is absolutely nothing moral about it. All you are really saying is "This is what I believe and everyone should think like me." Just another true believer.

If your religion doesn't make sense to us, just like Islam or Mormonism or the Greek Gods don't to you, isn't it moral to speak the truth? If we think religion is a lie that holds people back, shouldn't we speak up? Look at how ISIS uses god. Its not a healthy concept. "They" use it to brainwash/control you.

If one accepts the prevailing scientific understanding of the development of the universe, yet also believes in one of the major religions, then presumably a god sat idle for 13.7 billion years – waiting as the stars, galaxies and planets formed. Then it watched with complete and utter indifference as modern Homo Sapians evolved, struggled and died for 150,000 years. Finally, a few thousand years ago, this god suddenly decided to reveal itself to a hand ful of people in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared.

 

[sealybobo]

Atheists like Mao and Stalin are responsible for more death and destruction than any Christian leaders. Socalled progressive liberal atheists are responsible for the deaths of millions of unborn children. Muslims take the judgment into their own hands and kill the mockers and fools who proclaim their godless stupidity to be moral and wise. But the godless should be far more afraid of Christians because they leave judgment to God. To those who stand strong and smug in their evil the message is clear. God will not let you stand forever and there is nowhere you can hide from Him. Repent or perish!

Oh shut the fuck up about them. They do not represent Atheists and they didn't kill in the name of no god. You guys kill in the name of your god.

How many suicide bombs have atheists blown up in the last decade? It seems like every person who blows themselves up now a days is doing it for god. Might not be your god but you can see just how stupid people can be for god.

 

[sealybobo]

Christians just can't admit that their religion makes zero sense. They literally worship a Jewish zombie who was his own father and had to kill himself to forgive us for our furthest ancestors eating a piece of fruit he knew they would eat when he made them. Muslims just can't admit that the Qur'an really does, no shit, teach terrorism and domestic violence. It's not even debatable; just read it for yourself. Jews just can't admit that their religion is more or less the foundation stone of modern Western bigotry. The West didn't really even have ideas like total genocidal war, blood purity, or a master race until the Old Testament was translated into their languages. Neopagans just can't accept that their religions are basically just shallow rip-offs of actual pagan religions combined with Jungian psychoanalysis and capitalism. Btw, Native peoples would really like you people in particular to stop selling their culture. I could go on, but I think this small list suffices for now to prove that, not only is there no true religion, there's not even one worth following. Atheism is the only moral position.

"Being honest about religion." Made me laugh. Can't be honest about a lie can ya?

Faith in something isn't the same thing as a lie.

If you are wasting your life worshiping something that doesn't exist. But I guess it makes sad people feel better about themselves. Are you really worried about where you go when you die? I'm not. I'm just enjoying my time while I have it. Remember what it was like before you were born? That's what it'll be like when you are dead.

 

[sealybobo]

So because you don't understand the religions of others they are being dishonest?

that is literally the dumbest thing I've ever heard

All religions, without exception, are dishonest because they perpetuate delusional thinking for the purpose of control.

How do you feel about deception being sanctioned and licensed by the state under the guise of religion and delusional thinking being taught to children whose minds are considered too young and impressionable to see nipples on the television?

Could you be more specific?

Yes. What could be more confusing and detrimental to the developing mind than to be taught to believe in things such as invisible demonic entities, eternal damnation, original sin, guilt and shame for having thoughts, being human, etc., yet any two bit charlatan can be licensed by the state to deceive anyone however young with any kind of pseudo religious flotsam while at the same time another government agency deems it inappropriate and too potentially damaging for a developing mind to see a naked body in a movie?

Why is it OK to perpetuate delusional thinking in children who do not yet know the difference between what is possible and impossible when such beliefs can potentially fuck up their minds for their entire lives?

Its illegal to make false claims in advertising but making false religious claims is fine and even admired?

Is it any wonder the world is full of confused people with psychological issues?

It isn't a lie if they believe it. LOL.

Just this morning I heard a lady on religion tv telling a story I remember having problems with when I was a kid. Jesus turned 5 loaves of bread and 3 fish into enough food for 5000 people. I guess in order to believe any of the organized religions, it comes down to this. You have to believe in miracles, the supernatural and basically you have to believe the unbelievable.

That is the requirement for religion. You MUST believe the unbelievable. Although I do know of "christians" who understand all the stories in the bible are just allegories. Well, they understand the Noah, Adam & Jonah stories are just allegories but ask them if Jesus did miracles and they'll say honestly they do. They don't know where the stories end and the truth starts.

 

[PratchettFan]

So, you don't have any evidence upon which to base your conclusion. Which makes it belief. And I agree, that's why they call it faith. I'm just not accepting your faith is somehow different, because you have a belief in something not in evidence. Calling it the default doesn't change that. In fact, Atheism/disbelief is not the default. Neutrality is the default. We don't begin with disbelief, we begin with no opinion at all.

Dude, I don't need evidence of anything. I'm not the one making the claim here. You claim that god exists. Okay so it is up to you to prove the claim. It is not for me to prove or refute it because it is not my claim.

I have not claimed there is a God. I have no idea if there is or not. You have said, " Atheists simply acknowledge that what isn't there - isn't there." The claim is yours. What evidence do you have to support it?

It isn't the evidence that counts in this instance. It is the glaring lack of evidence that counts.

A lack of evidence means that no conclusion can be arrived at. It does not support a negative conclusion any more than it supports a positive one. Your position is pure belief, and belief is belief whether negative or positive.

That isn't actually true. A lack of scientific evidence drastically reduces the probability of there being a god. And yes, even a probability of 0.0001 is not 0, but it is close enough in my book.

It is actually true. What is not true is that a lack of evidence reduces the probability of anything. That is just a belief, no different than claiming the universe is proof there is a God.

You have no idea what it is you are saying does not exist. You have no idea what evidence for its existence would be. You are in a state of absolute ignorance and you think you have arrived at a rational conclusion? That conclusion is utter fantasy and it is no different than the conclusion the thing your know nothing about exists. The only rational application of probability in this issue is 50/50, because there is no evidence of any sort to support higher odds on either side. Anything other than 50/50 is pure, unsupported belief.

Your position isn't rational. It is not scientific. The only word which would come close to describing it is "religious".

 

[PratchettFan]

So, you don't have any evidence upon which to base your conclusion. Which makes it belief. And I agree, that's why they call it faith. I'm just not accepting your faith is somehow different, because you have a belief in something not in evidence. Calling it the default doesn't change that. In fact, Atheism/disbelief is not the default. Neutrality is the default. We don't begin with disbelief, we begin with no opinion at all.

Dude, I don't need evidence of anything. I'm not the one making the claim here. You claim that god exists. Okay so it is up to you to prove the claim. It is not for me to prove or refute it because it is not my claim.

I have not claimed there is a God. I have no idea if there is or not. You have said, " Atheists simply acknowledge that what isn't there - isn't there." The claim is yours. What evidence do you have to support it?

It isn't the evidence that counts in this instance. It is the glaring lack of evidence that counts.

A lack of evidence means that no conclusion can be arrived at. It does not support a negative conclusion any more than it supports a positive one. Your position is pure belief, and belief is belief whether negative or positive.

This morning on TCT tv a lady was telling kids that Jesus fed 5000 people with 5 loaves of bread and 3 fish. So in 1 second I knew this story was bullshit.

Do you think because I can't prove Jesus didn't feed 5000 with 5 loaves and 3 fish that this somehow makes your belief it happened just as credible as my disbelief?

I get that you are a true believer.

 

[PratchettFan]

Christians just can't admit that their religion makes zero sense. They literally worship a Jewish zombie who was his own father and had to kill himself to forgive us for our furthest ancestors eating a piece of fruit he knew they would eat when he made them. Muslims just can't admit that the Qur'an really does, no shit, teach terrorism and domestic violence. It's not even debatable; just read it for yourself. Jews just can't admit that their religion is more or less the foundation stone of modern Western bigotry. The West didn't really even have ideas like total genocidal war, blood purity, or a master race until the Old Testament was translated into their languages. Neopagans just can't accept that their religions are basically just shallow rip-offs of actual pagan religions combined with Jungian psychoanalysis and capitalism. Btw, Native peoples would really like you people in particular to stop selling their culture. I could go on, but I think this small list suffices for now to prove that, not only is there no true religion, there's not even one worth following. Atheism is the only moral position.

Atheism is just another belief system. There is absolutely nothing moral about it. All you are really saying is "This is what I believe and everyone should think like me." Just another true believer.

If your religion doesn't make sense to us, just like Islam or Mormonism or the Greek Gods don't to you, isn't it moral to speak the truth? If we think religion is a lie that holds people back, shouldn't we speak up? Look at how ISIS uses god. Its not a healthy concept. "They" use it to brainwash/control you.

If one accepts the prevailing scientific understanding of the development of the universe, yet also believes in one of the major religions, then presumably a god sat idle for 13.7 billion years – waiting as the stars, galaxies and planets formed. Then it watched with complete and utter indifference as modern Homo Sapians evolved, struggled and died for 150,000 years. Finally, a few thousand years ago, this god suddenly decided to reveal itself to a hand ful of people in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared.

You can say anything you like. I'm not on a message board because I expect people to shut up. But just because your particular belief as to the nature of God doesn't make any sense to you is not evidence regarding the existence of God. It just means your belief doesn't make sense.

 

[sealybobo]

Dude, I don't need evidence of anything. I'm not the one making the claim here. You claim that god exists. Okay so it is up to you to prove the claim. It is not for me to prove or refute it because it is not my claim.

I have not claimed there is a God. I have no idea if there is or not. You have said, " Atheists simply acknowledge that what isn't there - isn't there." The claim is yours. What evidence do you have to support it?

It isn't the evidence that counts in this instance. It is the glaring lack of evidence that counts.

A lack of evidence means that no conclusion can be arrived at. It does not support a negative conclusion any more than it supports a positive one. Your position is pure belief, and belief is belief whether negative or positive.

That isn't actually true. A lack of scientific evidence drastically reduces the probability of there being a god. And yes, even a probability of 0.0001 is not 0, but it is close enough in my book.

It is actually true. What is not true is that a lack of evidence reduces the probability of anything. That is just a belief, no different than claiming the universe is proof there is a God.

You have no idea what it is you are saying does not exist. You have no idea what evidence for its existence would be. You are in a state of absolute ignorance and you think you have arrived at a rational conclusion? That conclusion is utter fantasy and it is no different than the conclusion the thing your know nothing about exists. The only rational application of probability in this issue is 50/50, because there is no evidence of any sort to support higher odds on either side. Anything other than 50/50 is pure, unsupported belief.

Your position isn't rational. It is not scientific. The only word which would come close to describing it is "religious".

You tell me your god turned 5 loaves of bread and 3 fish into a feast for 5000.

Do you really believe that your belief in that story is as valid as my disbelief?

 

[orogenicman]

Dude, I don't need evidence of anything. I'm not the one making the claim here. You claim that god exists. Okay so it is up to you to prove the claim. It is not for me to prove or refute it because it is not my claim.

I have not claimed there is a God. I have no idea if there is or not. You have said, " Atheists simply acknowledge that what isn't there - isn't there." The claim is yours. What evidence do you have to support it?

It isn't the evidence that counts in this instance. It is the glaring lack of evidence that counts.

A lack of evidence means that no conclusion can be arrived at. It does not support a negative conclusion any more than it supports a positive one. Your position is pure belief, and belief is belief whether negative or positive.

That isn't actually true. A lack of scientific evidence drastically reduces the probability of there being a god. And yes, even a probability of 0.0001 is not 0, but it is close enough in my book.

It is actually true. What is not true is that a lack of evidence reduces the probability of anything.

If you believe that, then you don't understand probability.

You have no idea what it is you are saying does not exist. You have no idea what evidence for its existence would be. You are in a state of absolute ignorance and you think you have arrived at a rational conclusion? That conclusion is utter fantasy and it is no different than the conclusion the thing your know nothing about exists. The only rational application of probability in this issue is 50/50, because there is no evidence of any sort to support higher odds on either side. Anything other than 50/50 is pure, unsupported belief.

Your position isn't rational. It is not scientific. The only word which would come close to describing it is "religious".

Wow, so you are going to make this personal, are you? Careful what you wish for.

When there is no scientific evidence to support the argument for the existence of a god, the notion that the probability for or against are somehow 50/50 is merely wishful thinking.

 

[sealybobo]

Christians just can't admit that their religion makes zero sense. They literally worship a Jewish zombie who was his own father and had to kill himself to forgive us for our furthest ancestors eating a piece of fruit he knew they would eat when he made them. Muslims just can't admit that the Qur'an really does, no shit, teach terrorism and domestic violence. It's not even debatable; just read it for yourself. Jews just can't admit that their religion is more or less the foundation stone of modern Western bigotry. The West didn't really even have ideas like total genocidal war, blood purity, or a master race until the Old Testament was translated into their languages. Neopagans just can't accept that their religions are basically just shallow rip-offs of actual pagan religions combined with Jungian psychoanalysis and capitalism. Btw, Native peoples would really like you people in particular to stop selling their culture. I could go on, but I think this small list suffices for now to prove that, not only is there no true religion, there's not even one worth following. Atheism is the only moral position.

Atheism is just another belief system. There is absolutely nothing moral about it. All you are really saying is "This is what I believe and everyone should think like me." Just another true believer.

If your religion doesn't make sense to us, just like Islam or Mormonism or the Greek Gods don't to you, isn't it moral to speak the truth? If we think religion is a lie that holds people back, shouldn't we speak up? Look at how ISIS uses god. Its not a healthy concept. "They" use it to brainwash/control you.

If one accepts the prevailing scientific understanding of the development of the universe, yet also believes in one of the major religions, then presumably a god sat idle for 13.7 billion years – waiting as the stars, galaxies and planets formed. Then it watched with complete and utter indifference as modern Homo Sapians evolved, struggled and died for 150,000 years. Finally, a few thousand years ago, this god suddenly decided to reveal itself to a hand ful of people in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared.

You can say anything you like. I'm not on a message board because I expect people to shut up. But just because your particular belief as to the nature of God doesn't make any sense to you is not evidence regarding the existence of God. It just means your belief doesn't make sense.

I understand all the reasons you believe in god. I get it! You can't see how without a god. That's cool. I'm just telling you that as a scientist we see zero hard evidence of a god(s) existence. But that hasn't stopped humans. For thousands of years we've been having this debate. Well, whenever we've been allowed. There have been plenty of times when you could not even question this. This is another reason I know god is all made up. They forced it onto us for so long that now it might be hard wired into us. We want to believe we are special. We hate not knowing things. And this we truly don't know.

Us Atheists understand all the phylisophical arguments for why people believe in gods. Us skeptics are just letting you know none of your arguments prove a god exists. And we admit we can't prove your invisible imaginary friend is not real.

Then we have the organized religions who say that god visited their ancestors 2000 years ago in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared..

 

[orogenicman]

Christians just can't admit that their religion makes zero sense. They literally worship a Jewish zombie who was his own father and had to kill himself to forgive us for our furthest ancestors eating a piece of fruit he knew they would eat when he made them. Muslims just can't admit that the Qur'an really does, no shit, teach terrorism and domestic violence. It's not even debatable; just read it for yourself. Jews just can't admit that their religion is more or less the foundation stone of modern Western bigotry. The West didn't really even have ideas like total genocidal war, blood purity, or a master race until the Old Testament was translated into their languages. Neopagans just can't accept that their religions are basically just shallow rip-offs of actual pagan religions combined with Jungian psychoanalysis and capitalism. Btw, Native peoples would really like you people in particular to stop selling their culture. I could go on, but I think this small list suffices for now to prove that, not only is there no true religion, there's not even one worth following. Atheism is the only moral position.

Atheism is just another belief system. There is absolutely nothing moral about it. All you are really saying is "This is what I believe and everyone should think like me." Just another true believer.

If your religion doesn't make sense to us, just like Islam or Mormonism or the Greek Gods don't to you, isn't it moral to speak the truth? If we think religion is a lie that holds people back, shouldn't we speak up? Look at how ISIS uses god. Its not a healthy concept. "They" use it to brainwash/control you.

If one accepts the prevailing scientific understanding of the development of the universe, yet also believes in one of the major religions, then presumably a god sat idle for 13.7 billion years – waiting as the stars, galaxies and planets formed. Then it watched with complete and utter indifference as modern Homo Sapians evolved, struggled and died for 150,000 years. Finally, a few thousand years ago, this god suddenly decided to reveal itself to a hand ful of people in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared.

You can say anything you like. I'm not on a message board because I expect people to shut up. But just because your particular belief as to the nature of God doesn't make any sense to you is not evidence regarding the existence of God. It just means your belief doesn't make sense.

I understand all the reasons you believe in god. I get it! You can't see how without a god. That's cool. I'm just telling you that as a scientist we see zero hard evidence of a god(s) existence. But that hasn't stopped humans. For thousands of years we've been having this debate. Well, whenever we've been allowed. There have been plenty of times when you could not even question this. This is another reason I know god is all made up. They forced it onto us for so long that now it might be hard wired into us. We want to believe we are special. We hate not knowing things. And this we truly don't know.

Us Atheists understand all the phylisophical arguments for why people believe in gods. Us skeptics are just letting you know none of your arguments prove a god exists. And we admit we can't prove your invisible imaginary friend is not real.

Then we have the organized religions who say that god visited their ancestors 2000 years ago in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared..

Here is how I see it. Imagine there has been a murder. A man is accused of murdering someone in a stadium during a ball game. The jury is shown all the evidence and asked to weigh that evidence before rendering judgment. The jury comes back and says they are hung on his guilt or innocence. This is so because one person refuses to agree with the rest on his guilt. This juror does this despite the fact that thousands of people at the stadium witnessed the murder, despite the fact that 100 cameras recorded the incident, despite the fact that the accused has admitted to his guilt. The juror refuses to find him guilty based solely on the off chance that out there somewhere there might be some evidence that was missed. We are asked to believe in something despite the utter lack of evidence in favor of it being true.

 

[sealybobo]

Christians just can't admit that their religion makes zero sense. They literally worship a Jewish zombie who was his own father and had to kill himself to forgive us for our furthest ancestors eating a piece of fruit he knew they would eat when he made them. Muslims just can't admit that the Qur'an really does, no shit, teach terrorism and domestic violence. It's not even debatable; just read it for yourself. Jews just can't admit that their religion is more or less the foundation stone of modern Western bigotry. The West didn't really even have ideas like total genocidal war, blood purity, or a master race until the Old Testament was translated into their languages. Neopagans just can't accept that their religions are basically just shallow rip-offs of actual pagan religions combined with Jungian psychoanalysis and capitalism. Btw, Native peoples would really like you people in particular to stop selling their culture. I could go on, but I think this small list suffices for now to prove that, not only is there no true religion, there's not even one worth following. Atheism is the only moral position.

Atheism is just another belief system. There is absolutely nothing moral about it. All you are really saying is "This is what I believe and everyone should think like me." Just another true believer.

If your religion doesn't make sense to us, just like Islam or Mormonism or the Greek Gods don't to you, isn't it moral to speak the truth? If we think religion is a lie that holds people back, shouldn't we speak up? Look at how ISIS uses god. Its not a healthy concept. "They" use it to brainwash/control you.

If one accepts the prevailing scientific understanding of the development of the universe, yet also believes in one of the major religions, then presumably a god sat idle for 13.7 billion years – waiting as the stars, galaxies and planets formed. Then it watched with complete and utter indifference as modern Homo Sapians evolved, struggled and died for 150,000 years. Finally, a few thousand years ago, this god suddenly decided to reveal itself to a hand ful of people in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared.

You can say anything you like. I'm not on a message board because I expect people to shut up. But just because your particular belief as to the nature of God doesn't make any sense to you is not evidence regarding the existence of God. It just means your belief doesn't make sense.

When you hear the story of Zeus, do you believe he once existed? I bet you if you lived back in ancient Greece you would believe in him and you would say lightening bolts are your evidence and that I have no evidence Zeus is not real. You would ask me to prove Zeus is not real.

Can you prove Zeus is not real? Then he must be real. Right? Or believe in him is just as valid as not believing, right?

 

[haissem123]

Christians just can't admit that their religion makes zero sense. They literally worship a Jewish zombie who was his own father and had to kill himself to forgive us for our furthest ancestors eating a piece of fruit he knew they would eat when he made them. Muslims just can't admit that the Qur'an really does, no shit, teach terrorism and domestic violence. It's not even debatable; just read it for yourself. Jews just can't admit that their religion is more or less the foundation stone of modern Western bigotry. The West didn't really even have ideas like total genocidal war, blood purity, or a master race until the Old Testament was translated into their languages. Neopagans just can't accept that their religions are basically just shallow rip-offs of actual pagan religions combined with Jungian psychoanalysis and capitalism. Btw, Native peoples would really like you people in particular to stop selling their culture. I could go on, but I think this small list suffices for now to prove that, not only is there no true religion, there's not even one worth following. Atheism is the only moral position.

this was a great post. loved it for it's simplicity. I think it could be seen from a few different angles or angels. I think you may need to re-evaluate some of the beginning lines. Some will question his exist and all the tale of lore as always, but the message is more then him just letting himself be killed to speak our father who art in heaven's truth with full demonstration to the commitment that we all must soon be willing to make to survive as a species, imo. That cool crazy hippy had a message sent back from the future to minimize our pain or save us period in more ways then one.
I suppose Jesus would want us to live under the all watching eye of those that live in pyramids? That's why he stood up and died for us. None of us are worthy of him and we shall reap the hell we have sowed because of it. At least I will know the real reason why we die at the hands of our brothers, the evil, or the aliens. I tell you of his message again for us all. the lamb led gently and apparently the good masses failed to follow.His madness of not wanting to play this losing game any longer. Why would he want to leave us where he was left off by those that didn't know the father. i wish I'd recieved his message before this world spoiled my soul with it's brother against brother creed. I hope to find the love I once knew, for that love was for all of you, it now has turned to dispair, for I can see none whom care, that the life that one gave, for all of us to save, was given in vain, for our evil still remain, the dominant power, up until mankind's last evil hour, when on bended knee, they may all see, the light of the son, has finally won. peace and I pray, that at the end of this day, you see that my sorrows, was from seeing all our tommorows, that you think can't be fixed, but that's merely the devil's trix, for our path can always be bright, if the good put up his fight, by doing what is right.

 

[hobelim]

You tell me your god turned 5 loaves of bread and 3 fish into a feast for 5000.

Do you really believe that your belief in that story is as valid as my disbelief?

Given what has already been proven to be true about reality, disbelief that the story is a literal depiction of actual events is the only rational conclusion, especially given some peoples insistence that this was a written record of a reality defying demonstration of supernatural power.

However There is another way to see things. Science, reality, and logic only prove false that which the story is not about.

If one realizes that seven is the exact number of disciples that Jesus had at his disposal at the time, represented by the five loaves (teachers) and two fish ( a well known metaphor for a follower of Jesus) to feed such a large and skeptical crowd who hungered for truth while being trapped in a very strange, violent, and disturbing place and time, then it becomes less strange that when the disciples asked Jesus how he was going to feed such a large crowd he replied to them to feed them yourselves. So he blessed them and sat the crowd down in groups of fifty (the exact number of troops that elijiah called down fire from the sky upon each time they came out to kill him) and they taught the crowd everything they had already learned from Jesus, one group at a time..

The twelve baskets full of uneaten pieces represent the aspects of what Jesus taught that the crowd could not swallow but were believed by the twelve disciples that he ended up with.

Jesus taught a restless and skeptical crowd of thousands eager to stone to death any false prophet - to their satisfaction - and turned seven disciples into twelve in the process.

A miracle! but nothing whatever to do with Jesus making fish sandwiches out of thin air..

So, a story can be literally impossible but still the literal truth can be found buried in the "miraculous signs" recorded as evidence that Jesus was exactly who he said that he was, a Jewish man chosen by God to reveal the figurative nature of the words and hidden subjects in the divine commands clearing the way to the promised eternal life for anyone who received his teaching and acted on it.

 

[Hollie]

Christians just can't admit that their religion makes zero sense. They literally worship a Jewish zombie who was his own father and had to kill himself to forgive us for our furthest ancestors eating a piece of fruit he knew they would eat when he made them. Muslims just can't admit that the Qur'an really does, no shit, teach terrorism and domestic violence. It's not even debatable; just read it for yourself. Jews just can't admit that their religion is more or less the foundation stone of modern Western bigotry. The West didn't really even have ideas like total genocidal war, blood purity, or a master race until the Old Testament was translated into their languages. Neopagans just can't accept that their religions are basically just shallow rip-offs of actual pagan religions combined with Jungian psychoanalysis and capitalism. Btw, Native peoples would really like you people in particular to stop selling their culture. I could go on, but I think this small list suffices for now to prove that, not only is there no true religion, there's not even one worth following. Atheism is the only moral position.

Atheism is just another belief system. There is absolutely nothing moral about it. All you are really saying is "This is what I believe and everyone should think like me." Just another true believer.

If your religion doesn't make sense to us, just like Islam or Mormonism or the Greek Gods don't to you, isn't it moral to speak the truth? If we think religion is a lie that holds people back, shouldn't we speak up? Look at how ISIS uses god. Its not a healthy concept. "They" use it to brainwash/control you.

If one accepts the prevailing scientific understanding of the development of the universe, yet also believes in one of the major religions, then presumably a god sat idle for 13.7 billion years – waiting as the stars, galaxies and planets formed. Then it watched with complete and utter indifference as modern Homo Sapians evolved, struggled and died for 150,000 years. Finally, a few thousand years ago, this god suddenly decided to reveal itself to a hand ful of people in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared.

You can say anything you like. I'm not on a message board because I expect people to shut up. But just because your particular belief as to the nature of God doesn't make any sense to you is not evidence regarding the existence of God. It just means your belief doesn't make sense.

You are free to promote your belief in god. However, your belief is absent support.

You lead your argument by deferring to "God ", a reference to a unique and partisan supernatural entity. It's just a fact that there has never been any objective evidence for any of the human inventions of gawds, past or present. And with a historical perspective, we can identify your God as merely an invention of a supernatural entity that is an accumulation of hand-me-down attributes of earlier gawds, all rolled up into a three stop shopping gawds of convenience.

It's therefore a rational and legitimate conclusion that the supernatural entities that have been distilled into the God you refer to is merely your partisan belief.