Why Can't the Pro-Choice Crowd Be Honest?

[Grace]

Now let me ask this. Those who think its so wrong to abort.....WHAT IF your daughter was 13. Her grandpa raped her and she got pregnant. Would you REALLY insist that your child carry the child made from an incestuous rape because the fetus is alive and a baby and has the right to live even though your daughter screams at the very thought?

The silence is deafening.

 

[Zoom-boing]

And at 4 weeks an embryo is indistinguishable from any other animal embryo.

That's it? The fact that it's indistinguishable makes it ok to murder? Wow. You really need to stop rationalizing so hard there.

You're admitting that it's life. It is alive. You're stopping that life. End of story.

C-section it out and let have its life of its own. That is not murder. If it dies it dies. End of story.

I have never said it that it is not living human tissue. I do say it does not have a life of its own. Do try and keep up.

It does have a life of it's own and by removing it from it's proper environment before it is able to survive kills that life.

 

[Zoom-boing]

whether or not life should be PROTECTED from conception is a religious concept. I do not share that concept.

and for the record, i thought you were above the rightwing picture posting. we all know what a fetus looks like. having pictures shoved in one's face does nothing to change anyone's minds.

It's not just religious. I am pro-life for entirely NON-religious reasons. From the moment of conception it's life. All that's ever going to be there is there. Nothing else needed or added.

Is it a life of its own or just living tissue?

If it is a stand alone life, there should be no reason it cannot be removed from an unwilling host.

If it needs a host then it is not a life of its own, and requires the cooperation of the host. The host has the final say about providing that service.

Your're right, the mother has the final say. And if her choice is to abort then her choice is to kill another human being.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Do i say not to assist the 4 week old cells once it is outside of its host environment? Do i say new born babies do not require assistance to survive? Do i say children do not need assistance to survive? No, i do not. Just as a baby needs assistance to survive in a new environment I would need assistance to survive in Siberia.

Again, feel free to give all the assistance to 4 week old tissue on a table you want. See if it survives.

If i was given all the assistance i wanted in Siberia...i would survive just fine.

I find it very sad that you see the first picture not as a developing human being but rather as an utterly disposable 'thing' just because it has not yet developed enough to survive on it's own outside of the womb.

I notice, by eliminating her from the photos, you've already symbolically disposed of the "thing" with whose bodies those fetuses reside.

Hypocrite.

You really can't possibly, possibly be this stupid . . can you? Wait let me go back and read your post again. I was wrong you are this stupid.

Thanks for the laugh though.

 

[Zoom-boing]

I've stipulated that the zygote/embryo/fetus is human.

I'm still waiting for someone to prove to me that relevant in the context of deciding the right or wrong, the legality or illegality,

of a 1st trimester abortion,

the use of RU486,

the use of the morning after pill,

the discarding of fertilized eggs at a fertility clinic.

Anyone? No one?

So you concur that from conception it is a human being. Good.

Now you want to know the 'right and wrong' of destroying that human being via:

abortion
RU486
discarding fertilized eggs at a fertility clinic
(I believe the morning after pill prevents conception)



It's been answered throughout this thread. So sad that you can't see the answer for yourself.

Try answering JB's question that's been asked of you ad nauseum.

It is human only because the term is used so broadly that a fertilized egg qualifies for being termed a 'human' despite the fact that its only resemblance to a human is its number of chromosomes.

In other words, whether or not it's 'human' by name is totally irrelevant to the argument.

Sadly, a bunch of pro-choicers here have fallen for the false premise that it is relevant.

I see you pick and choose what you answer. Still can't answer JB's question, eh? Coward.

One LAST time. Humans CAN ONLY reproduce HUMANS. They are human from the moment of conception till the day they die. ALL developmental phases are those of what? Say it with me: a human being. Now you can dance around it all you want and call it a blob or living tissue or some other bullshit term. But the fact is that what grows inside of a woman's womb is a human being from the get go because it can't possibly be anything else. Being human being isn't relevant to the argument? The fact that it is a human being IS the argument.

 

[Grace]

Now let me ask this. Those who think its so wrong to abort.....WHAT IF your daughter was 13. Her grandpa raped her and she got pregnant. Would you REALLY insist that your child carry the child made from an incestuous rape because the fetus is alive and a baby and has the right to live even though your daughter screams at the very thought?

Anyone? Hello?

 

[Anguille]

I find it very sad that you see the first picture not as a developing human being but rather as an utterly disposable 'thing' just because it has not yet developed enough to survive on it's own outside of the womb.

I notice, by eliminating her from the photos, you've already symbolically disposed of the "thing" with whose bodies those fetuses reside.

Hypocrite.

You really can't possibly, possibly be this stupid . . can you? Wait let me go back and read your post again. I was wrong you are this stupid.

Thanks for the laugh though.

I should have typed "within" but I think you know what I meant. Maybe not. You're quite the ditz sometimes.

As for your hysterical, panicked laughter. Calm down. there's nothing wrong in admitting defeat. In fact it quite the honorable thing to do.

 

[Anguille]

Now let me ask this. Those who think its so wrong to abort.....WHAT IF your daughter was 13. Her grandpa raped her and she got pregnant. Would you REALLY insist that your child carry the child made from an incestuous rape because the fetus is alive and a baby and has the right to live even though your daughter screams at the very thought?

Anyone? Hello?

I think they have you on ignore. Like ostriches with their heads in the sand.

 

[Grace]

Hard to answer, isnt it? Especially when it comes to your own personal ife.

 

[Grace]

Now let me ask this. Those who think its so wrong to abort.....WHAT IF your daughter was 13. Her grandpa raped her and she got pregnant. Would you REALLY insist that your child carry the child made from an incestuous rape because the fetus is alive and a baby and has the right to live even though your daughter screams at the very thought?

Anyone? Hello?

I think they have you on ignore. Like ostriches with their heads in the sand.

No they dont. They want to see if they can continue to ream me and if Ill fold. Aint gonna happen. But they sure are quiet now, arent they? Makes them squirm a bit in their shrieking harpy mode about bodies, rights, cells, fetuses, right to life, yadda yadda.

Makes me wonder why they never responded to syrenn's question either about how many have adopted unwanted children that were forced to be hosted. Maybe it would be an "inconvenience" for their own families to take yet another child in when they have to support their own. Oh. Wait.....wasnt that subject also brought forth? Why yes, it was. Something about "if you cant take care of them, why have children". Gosh. Makes ya wonder just how large the H should be in hypocrite.

 

[jillian]

The Founders did not put fetal protections into the Constitution despite the fact that abortion up until the time of quickening was generally legal in the colonies.

A constitutional amendment is necessary to change that, if anyone cares about the legal business of all this.

The "founders' left very broad swaths which were to be filled in as time went on. There isn't any amendment necessary because it is already constitutionally protected ... if anyone cares about the legal business of all this.

As for why the "founders" didn't include the protection of women's rights... WOMEN HAD NO RIGHTS THEN. Women were chattel.

Ah... the good old days.

 

[Grace]

Maybe they left, Jillian. Or are waiting reinforcements to their cause. Or..are confering in private on how to proceed.

 

[Anguille]

Hard to answer, isnt it? Especially when it comes to your own personal ife.

I can't imagine anyone being so cruel as to force their own child to take a pregnancy to term. But I'm sure there are some that would.

I'm just waiting for Allie Bubblehead to burst in to tell us about the many, many 13 year old rape victims she's met who all were overjoyed to have been impregnated and who found that giving birth gave them meaning in life.

 

[Zoom-boing]

They like the rhetoric, they like the 'abortion is murder', and 'baby killer', and 'holocaust' sloganeering,

but they can't make a rational argument against allowing a pregnant woman a reasonable opportunity early on in a pregnancy the right to choose to terminate it,

so we get the exploiting of fallacious emotionalism instead.

Outside of a few mental cases, these people no more believe that a fertilized egg is a person than I do.

I agree.

And I'm still trying to figure out how some of them can insist abortion is murder and then turn around and insist murder should not be punished.

I think it was Zoomboing who howled that I was trying to paint him as an extremist by suggesting that should be his position.

Imagine, thinking someone who commits a murder is a murderer!!!

http://www.usmessageboard.com/3494511-post744.html

 

[Zoom-boing]

whether or not life should be PROTECTED from conception is a religious concept. I do not share that concept.

and for the record, i thought you were above the rightwing picture posting. we all know what a fetus looks like. having pictures shoved in one's face does nothing to change anyone's minds.

The only one I see mentioning religion is YOU. From conception is not just a religious concept.

Too bad, a picture is worth a thousand words. Want me to post the aborted baby pics? Might that change some minds? Or will you all just close your eyes and say 'no, no just a blob of cells'.

Aside which you don't know me very well. I post pics quite often. Ask anyone.

Go ahead and post your gruesome pics. We all know you drool over them.

For the record. I've seen them many times. Often they are doctored but it makes no difference to me if they are or not. I'm not squeamish. Nor do I allow cheap tricks to overcome my ability to reason.

You ran away from the thread that I posted one in, claiming I was going for some 'shock' thing. When I explained my position you realized your mistake and told me you'd get back to me so we could discuss it further. You never bothered getting back to me.

 

[Immanuel]

And I think you have every right to your opinion no matter how wrong it is.

There it is. The perfect phrase for this subject and any other subject. Might even use it as a sigline later on, its so good.

JB is on ignore, but quotes show he still has this fascination of rape.
Went thru it once before physically. Now I get to go thru it again verbally. Ill ask for him to cease. But I wont hold my breath.

Well, at least I am freely admitting that she has a right to an opinion as opposed to having my opinion squashed because we have a bunch of immoral people running this government.

Immie

 

[Anguille]

The only one I see mentioning religion is YOU. From conception is not just a religious concept.

Too bad, a picture is worth a thousand words. Want me to post the aborted baby pics? Might that change some minds? Or will you all just close your eyes and say 'no, no just a blob of cells'.

Aside which you don't know me very well. I post pics quite often. Ask anyone.

Go ahead and post your gruesome pics. We all know you drool over them.

For the record. I've seen them many times. Often they are doctored but it makes no difference to me if they are or not. I'm not squeamish. Nor do I allow cheap tricks to overcome my ability to reason.

You ran away from the thread that I posted one in, claiming I was going for some 'shock' thing. When I explained my position you realized your mistake and told me you'd get back to me so we could discuss it further. You never bothered getting back to me.

So you claim. However I've been posting to you in this thread so what are you whining about?

 

[Zoom-boing]

Now let me ask this. Those who think its so wrong to abort.....WHAT IF your daughter was 13. Her grandpa raped her and she got pregnant. Would you REALLY insist that your child carry the child made from an incestuous rape because the fetus is alive and a baby and has the right to live even though your daughter screams at the very thought?

The silence is deafening.

You know what? I don't know what I'd do and I hope to never find out. But IF I agreed for my daughter to get an abortion it would be with the full knowledge that she would be killing an innocent human being and we'd all have to live with that FACT for the rest of our lives. Best answer I can honestly give you, Grace.

 

[Shadow]

So you think you have the right to eliminate people who get in your way?

Of course, that's what all people who support abortion think.

Youre damn fucking right I have the right to eliminate people I was forced to host in MY BODY.

IMEURU...


Not my quote...learn to use the quote function correctly and stop attributing words to me that I did not say.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Go ahead and post your gruesome pics. We all know you drool over them.

For the record. I've seen them many times. Often they are doctored but it makes no difference to me if they are or not. I'm not squeamish. Nor do I allow cheap tricks to overcome my ability to reason.

You ran away from the thread that I posted one in, claiming I was going for some 'shock' thing. When I explained my position you realized your mistake and told me you'd get back to me so we could discuss it further. You never bothered getting back to me.

So you claim. However I've been posting to you in this thread so what are you whining about?

Whining? Merely pointing out how brown your shit is, Ang. Your dishonesty about the conversation we had and were going to continue. It's no 'claim', it happened. But go ahead and lie . . . you do it well.