Why did the holocaust occur?

[Sunni Man]

Hitler was right, in that Germany was in bad shape because of the Jews.

They had economically back stabbed the German people and economy for years.

Hitler didn't have to convince the German people of anything.

They already knew the truth about the Jews, and were glad to have a leader who will take action against them.

 

[editec]

Too bad. It's a worthy topic. I stick around the forum because once and awhile, when the trolls are asleep a few of us can actually discuss a serious subject in some depth. It doesn't last long, unfortunately.

I spent a great long trime trying to figure out why the holocaust happened in Germany back when I was in the NAV.

I have come to the conclusion that each such event has it's own internal logic, but aside from the obvious things like xenophobia, original sin, and the value of scapegoating to create unity, there was nothing exceptional about the NAZI experience.

Societies truly do go mad sometimes, especially when they are failing their people.

Ours is going a bit round the bend right now, in fact.

Think of it much like an infection.

the body typically always had pathogens which are toxic.

But a healthy body keeps them under control.

When something happens to that body that makes it too weak to fight off the pathogens one of more of them can make the body ill.

So it is with the toxic ideas which we coexist with right here here in the USA.

They have no chance of infecting most of us unless the society becomes so strained to people are looking for something or someone to blame for the problems facing them.

If the leaders of the nation are of the mindset that is sociopathic enough to use some excuse to deflect their own failings, they can encourage that pathogenic idea to their advantage.

Hell folks, we've seen numberous examples written by people we speak to every day where these weak minded nitwits expressed their olonging for the day that they can start shooting liberals, have we not?

These diseased minds that we share this nation with are no threat unless the elite decide that they can foster this toxic thinking into an advantage for themselves.

Rush Limbough and that ilk are the kinds of tools that Goebels would have understood perfectly.

People wonder why liberals haven't exactly taken to Air America.

That's because liberals generally recognize that sort of blind hatred that they would spew for what it is.

Of course now, now that the Banking class has screwed up so badly, one could see how, if things got really bad, they might elect to create another scapegoat class out of some perverted revisionist history, too.

It can happen here...it can happen anywhere there aren't enogh brave souls willing to stand up against the lying scum who manipulate public opinion.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Kind of a strange conclusion there Edi...

I don't see Rush as either a Goebbels or a "hate-spewer" I would suggest those who do haven't logged much time with him. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a "ditto-head" there are points of view that we mutually hold. There are also several we are diametrically opposed on. On those issues, I don't feel like Rush is spewing hate about me or inciting people in any particular way other than to oppose my point of view. But, I get that every time I watch the network "news."

Maybe people on the left are just so used to hearing the pleasant sound of everyone agreeing with their point of view, they are simply horrified when they find someone out of step the "the obvious truth."

In any case, the thing that I found most shocking about your post is that you point the finger at the people out of power. Essentially, the politically neutered. Seemingly the world would be a better place if they remained that way permanently. Maybe it would be better if they were kept away from the "sane" people somewhere?

I think we are at a turning point in this country politically. At various times in our country, it has happened that we become sharply politically polarized until a new "accepted" political reality takes hold and everyone settles down.

I don't think that is a pre-cursor to genocide.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Hmm.

The place I look to is how it happens that German citizens give themselves over to a dictator and blindly follow him into war. They also turned their back on and ignored the extermination of the Jews. Hitler demonized Jews, Gypsies and Homosexuals. They became less than human.

He used propaganda effectively. The German people felt defeated, the economy was poor, they looked for a scapegoat and Hitler was able to create a scapegoat as well as whip up a spirit of nationalism.

German families at the time, were highly authoritarian. People were socialized to be obedient.

Of course, there are other forces econonomically and politically that led up to the rise of the Nazi Party. But consider this. Most Germans thought the Nazi's were an extreme fringe group that couldn't possible come into power.

It's important to study how the Holocaust happened. Holocausts have cotinued to occur since that time. Consider Rwanda, consider the Balkans.

 

[Sunni Man]

You guys are so deluded.

Hitler didn't have to create a scapegoat.

Everyone already knew the Jews for what they were.

The German people were not blindly following Hitler.

They were one of the most educated people in Europe.

The people could think for themselves and knew Hitler was telling the truth.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Hmm.

The place I look to is how it happens that German citizens give themselves over to a dictator and blindly follow him into war. They also turned their back on and ignored the extermination of the Jews. Hitler demonized Jews, Gypsies and Homosexuals. They became less than human.

He used propaganda effectively. The German people felt defeated, the economy was poor, they looked for a scapegoat and Hitler was able to create a scapegoat as well as whip up a spirit of nationalism.

German families at the time, were highly authoritarian. People were socialized to be obedient.

Of course, there are other forces econonomically and politically that led up to the rise of the Nazi Party. But consider this. Most Germans thought the Nazi's were an extreme fringe group that couldn't possible come into power.

It's important to study how the Holocaust happened. Holocausts have cotinued to occur since that time. Consider Rwanda, consider the Balkans.

The items you cite are of course true. But, how do you generalize what you find there to inform your study of how genocide occurs in other places.

For instance, Stalin killed 20 million mostly Ukrainians during collectivization in the 1920s-1930s. How does knowing what the Nazis did inform you about the causation of this calamity, or does it at all? The killing fields of Cambodia or the communists in Mao's China.

Is it really political purification that we're talking about? However this is defined by the political entity that is seeking purification.

 

[DiveCon]

Too bad. It's a worthy topic. I stick around the forum because once and awhile, when the trolls are asleep a few of us can actually discuss a serious subject in some depth. It doesn't last long, unfortunately.

I spent a great long trime trying to figure out why the holocaust happened in Germany back when I was in the NAV.

I have come to the conclusion that each such event has it's own internal logic, but aside from the obvious things like xenophobia, original sin, and the value of scapegoating to create unity, there was nothing exceptional about the NAZI experience.

Societies truly do go mad sometimes, especially when they are failing their people.

Ours is going a bit round the bend right now, in fact.

Think of it much like an infection.

the body typically always had pathogens which are toxic.

But a healthy body keeps them under control.

When something happens to that body that makes it too weak to fight off the pathogens one of more of them can make the body ill.

So it is with the toxic ideas which we coexist with right here here in the USA.

They have no chance of infecting most of us unless the society becomes so strained to people are looking for something or someone to blame for the problems facing them.

If the leaders of the nation are of the mindset that is sociopathic enough to use some excuse to deflect their own failings, they can encourage that pathogenic idea to their advantage.

Hell folks, we've seen numberous examples written by people we speak to every day where these weak minded nitwits expressed their olonging for the day that they can start shooting liberals, have we not?

These diseased minds that we share this nation with are no threat unless the elite decide that they can foster this toxic thinking into an advantage for themselves.

Rush Limbough and that ilk are the kinds of tools that Goebels would have understood perfectly.

People wonder why liberals haven't exactly taken to Air America.

That's because liberals generally recognize that sort of blind hatred that they would spew for what it is.

Of course now, now that the Banking class has screwed up so badly, one could see how, if things got really bad, they might elect to create another scapegoat class out of some perverted revisionist history, too.

It can happen here...it can happen anywhere there aren't enogh brave souls willing to stand up against the lying scum who manipulate public opinion.

except Rush doesnt spew the kind of bullshit you would hear on err Amurika

you are daft if you think its even remotely comparable, that tells me like usual, if you have ever listened to Rush, it hasnt been much

 

[roomy]

Hitler was right, in that Germany was in bad shape because of the Jews.

They had economically back stabbed the German people and economy for years.

Hitler didn't have to convince the German people of anything.

They already knew the truth about the Jews, and were glad to have a leader who will take action against them.

What action you fucking muppet? You deny the holocaust for years then you admit it happened and then you deny it, you are a taciturn fool.

 

[mightypeon]

Um, I'd cite my source, but I can't post URLs yet, apparently...

There was a lot of historical momentum behind the holocaust. The Jews were scattered by the Diaspora of 607 BCE (Babylonian), and 70 CE (Roman). The consequence of this is that they were a significant minority in many predominantly Christian nations during the Dark Ages and beyond. Most Christians of the Dark Ages had little tolerance of those of a different faith, thus putting any non-Christian in their midst in danger.

There were, of course, problems particular to Jewish-Christian relations. Myths of blood libel, for example, were rampant from the 12th century to the mid-20th century, and led to pogroms.

Some would have argued that there is a certain degree of pretention and entitlement in Zionist ideology that rubs people the wrong way, though that’s a politically incorrect idea and I’d consider it a minor factor (but not because it's politically incorrect).

More significantly, there was the dynamics of money lending while charging interest, formerly known as usury and a sin to Catholics but not to Jews. (source can be found by looking up usury on wikipedia).

Lateran III decreed that persons who accepted interest on loans could receive neither the sacraments nor Christian burial.[3] Pope Clement V made the belief in the right to usury heresy in 1311, and abolished all secular legislation which allowed it.[4] Pope Sixtus V condemned the practice of charging interest as "detestable to God and man, damned by the sacred canons and contrary to Christian charity."

The Hebrew Bible regulates interest taking, but interpretations vary widely. One understanding is that Israelites were forbidden to charge interest on loans made to other Israelites, but allowed to charge interest on transactions with non-Israelites. However, the Hebrew Bible itself gives numerous examples where this provision is evaded.

Cato in his De Re Rustica said: "And what do you think of usury?" - "What do you think of murder?"

But one must always consider that usury, in historical context, has always been inextricably linked to economic abuses, mostly of the masses and of the poor; but sometimes of the financier and royalty, as bankrupt royalty has led to many a demise, thus frowning upon lending at interest or for a euphemistic "just profit"[clarification needed]. The main moral argument is that usury creates excessive profit and gain without "labor" which is deemed "work" in the Biblical context. Profits from usury are argued not to arise from any substantial labor or work but from mere avarice, greed, trickery and manipulation. In addition, usury is said to create a divide between people due to obsession with monetary gain. Most importantly, usury is the derivation of profit from biological time, which is linked to life, considered sacred, God-given and divine, leading to excessive worrying about money instead of God, thus subjugating a God-given sanctity of life to man-made artificial notions of material wealth.

As the Jews were ostracized from most professions by local rulers, the church and the guilds, they were pushed into marginal occupations considered socially inferior, such as tax and rent collecting and moneylending. This was said to show that Jews were insolent, greedy usurers. Natural tensions between creditors and debtors were added to social, political, religious, and economic strains.

Thus we had an unfortunate quagmire created by a conflict between the papacy and pragmatism. People in a developed economy need loans, but who is going to loan money when one cannot charge interest without going to hell? The Jews, prohibited from holding public office, entering guilds, and the like, found their niche in money lending. And they were despised for it. It wasn’t due to an avarice particular to their race, as eugenicists would later put it, but a consequence of the social facts of the middle ages that had ramifications extending well into the 20th century.

This ugliness was compounded by pseudoscientific philosophies that gained traction in the late 1800s. Particularly problematic was the eugenics, which was derived from a misinterpretation of Darwin and his peers’ ideas. Other problems included Manifest Destiny, imperialism, and ultranationalism. Hitler could easily have cited America’s successful eradication of the Native Americans and enslavement of the Africans as proof that Aryans were superior and should exterminate (Jews and those who oppose Aryan dominance) or enslave (other non-Slavs) those inferior to them to make the world a place for Aryan masters.

Make no mistake, there was nothing unique about Germany that caused the holocaust. They had a heavy concentration of these terrible ideas - but so had Imperial America, Imperial England, and Imperial Japan. The difference was contextual, i.e. the spark that was Hitler’s charisma/insanity and a perceived need for a scapegoat after the misery and shame in the aftermath of WWI. The Jews were a convenient target, and were painted as traitors in addition to their previous label as swindlers. The truth of whether any significant numbers of Jews were traitors or not would have made no difference and obviously should have been irrelevant to the fate of the entire group.

Still, we have to wonder how so many otherwise normal people can stand by and let millions get killed. I’d recommend reading Obedience to Authority by Stanley Millgram to get more insight on that.

A very good post, only a slight tidbit is not right.
There was another group of "money lenders" available, in this case the Knightly Orders.
Both the Teutonic Knights and the Knights Templar were able to lend money with "interests" disguised as "fees". In the case of the Knights templar, not even their military might and their reputation as crusaders saved them from the Greed of the Crown of France and the Pope (which both were indepted to them). The Teutons saw the writing on the wall (as a matter of fact, they barely fought of a similiar law suit by the pope, what saved them were good Hanseatic lawyers and the fact that the Holy Roman Emperor liked neither the pope nor the King of France) and set up a base in Prussia, out of reach of most Christian powers.

However, abusing a knightly order was by far more difficult than abusing socially ostracised Jews, so especially royalty (which could abuse Jews without a lot of problems) prefered to borrow from Jews in most cases.

 

[Sunni Man]

Hitler was right, in that Germany was in bad shape because of the Jews.

They had economically back stabbed the German people and economy for years.

Hitler didn't have to convince the German people of anything.

They already knew the truth about the Jews, and were glad to have a leader who will take action against them.

What action you fucking muppet? You deny the holocaust for years then you admit it happened and then you deny it, you are a taciturn fool.

Yes, Hitler rounded up the Jews

Yes, they were put into work camps and many died from over work, starvation, and disease.

No, there wasn't any gas chambers for execution.

And , the 6 million figure is a highly inflated number

In other words, there was NO holocaust.

Clear?

 

[roomy]

Hitler was right, in that Germany was in bad shape because of the Jews.

They had economically back stabbed the German people and economy for years.

Hitler didn't have to convince the German people of anything.

They already knew the truth about the Jews, and were glad to have a leader who will take action against them.

What action you fucking muppet? You deny the holocaust for years then you admit it happened and then you deny it, you are a taciturn fool.

Yes, Hitler rounded up the Jews

Yes, they were put into work camps and many died from over work, starvation, and disease.

No, there wasn't any gas chambers for execution.

And , the 6 million figure is a highly inflated number

In other words, there was NO holocaust.

Clear?

How many were beaten to death?

How many were hung?

How many were shot?

How many were starved to death?

How many died of disease?

How many died due to experiments?

How many were burned to death?

How many were gassed to death?

How many deaths make a holocaust?

You can repeat your half hearted denials until you are blue in the face but in effect you say nothing.Even you seem tired of your own blatherings and earlier in the thread admitted the holocaust so toddle along and try to peddle your crap elswhere, I have grown as tired of it as I think you have.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Yes. It's clear. You are a moron.

Keep posting if you want more confirmation.

 

[Sunni Man]

What action you fucking muppet? You deny the holocaust for years then you admit it happened and then you deny it, you are a taciturn fool.

Yes, Hitler rounded up the Jews

Yes, they were put into work camps and many died from over work, starvation, and disease.

No, there wasn't any gas chambers for execution.

And , the 6 million figure is a highly inflated number

In other words, there was NO holocaust.

Clear?

How many were beaten to death?

How many were hung?

How many were shot?

How many were starved to death?

How many died of disease?

How many died due to experiments?

How many were burned to death?

How many were gassed to death?

How many deaths make a holocaust?

You can repeat your half hearted denials until you are blue in the face but in effect you say nothing.Even you seem tired of your own blatherings and earlier in the thread admitted the holocaust so toddle along and try to peddle your crap elswhere, I have grown as tired of it as I think you have.

I estimate the number at 2 to 3 hundred thousand killed.

 

[roomy]

Yes, Hitler rounded up the Jews

Yes, they were put into work camps and many died from over work, starvation, and disease.

No, there wasn't any gas chambers for execution.

And , the 6 million figure is a highly inflated number

In other words, there was NO holocaust.

Clear?

How many were beaten to death?

How many were hung?

How many were shot?

How many were starved to death?

How many died of disease?

How many died due to experiments?

How many were burned to death?

How many were gassed to death?

How many deaths make a holocaust?

You can repeat your half hearted denials until you are blue in the face but in effect you say nothing.Even you seem tired of your own blatherings and earlier in the thread admitted the holocaust so toddle along and try to peddle your crap elswhere, I have grown as tired of it as I think you have.

I estimate the number at 2 to 3 hundred thousand killed.

Give it a rest Sunni before you start believing the trolling garbage you keep posting.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Sunnidiot will believe anything that comes from a radical islamic website.

 

[roomy]

Sunnidiot will believe anything that comes from a radical islamic website.

He does this for perverted laughs, he doesn't believe it.

 

[Yukon]

The Germans simply forced Jewish people to work in work-camps and they were paid. The fact is that the Jews couldnt do a "good-days-work" and as a result many of them died. To state that the Germans exterminated them is not true. They died from hard-work.

 

[manu1959]

The Germans simply forced Jewish people to work in work-camps and they were paid. The fact is that the Jews couldnt do a "good-days-work" and as a result many of them died. To state that the Germans exterminated them is not true. They died from hard-work.

forced them to work in work camps and they were paid.......then they died from hard work....

interesting.....you ever been to any of the camps.....

 

[manu1959]

i have another question.....if this never happened why did the nazis create records that show that it did.....

 

[DiveCon]

i have another question.....if this never happened why did the nazis create records that show that it did.....

well, clearly the ZOG forced them to lie and claim they killed millions