CDZ Why do people hate Gays ?

[Asclepias]

pe

Its like an obsession with some. Why is it so important to deny this small group of people rights that the rest of us take for granted.

Live,love and go about your business in peace.

The rhetoric is cruel,dehumanizing, hateful and tends to mark out the hater for what they are.

I can think of several reasons, fear,ignorance, inherent character flaws, selective religious intolerance.

But it still doesnt explain it to me fully.

Why do people hate Gays ?

Aren't you the guy that defends Islam, the religion that HATES GAYS, TOO? Um, a little disconnect going on here maybe perhaps? You are playing devils advocate perhaps? Or talking out of both sides of your mouth? Islam and Gays are mutually exclusive issues, you can't defend BOTH...

Do you not understand the difference between defending someone's right to "be" and defending a person or persons who "be" those things?

As goes Islam itself, it's just a religion. What's important is how any given individual, or group of them, interprets it and practices it. If you bother to read the Quran you'd discover that it's not a terribly unreasonable religion, as religions go. Have you read all of any monotheistic faith's scriptures?

Didn't answer the question, thanks for playing! I am a people person. Islam or Christianity is anti gay. Given. Are you anti gay or anti Islam/Christian? Simple question.

If youre a people person do you not see the logical error in claiming you cant support Muslims and gays?

 

[MaryL]

pe

Its like an obsession with some. Why is it so important to deny this small group of people rights that the rest of us take for granted.

Live,love and go about your business in peace.

The rhetoric is cruel,dehumanizing, hateful and tends to mark out the hater for what they are.

I can think of several reasons, fear,ignorance, inherent character flaws, selective religious intolerance.

But it still doesnt explain it to me fully.

Why do people hate Gays ?

Aren't you the guy that defends Islam, the religion that HATES GAYS, TOO? Um, a little disconnect going on here maybe perhaps? You are playing devils advocate perhaps? Or talking out of both sides of your mouth? Islam and Gays are mutually exclusive issues, you can't defend BOTH...

Do you not understand the difference between defending someone's right to "be" and defending a person or persons who "be" those things?

As goes Islam itself, it's just a religion. What's important is how any given individual, or group of them, interprets it and practices it. If you bother to read the Quran you'd discover that it's not a terribly unreasonable religion, as religions go. Have you read all of any monotheistic faith's scriptures?

Didn't answer the question, thanks for playing! I am a people person. Islam or Christianity is anti gay. Given. Are you anti gay or anti Islam/Christian? Simple question.

If youre a people person do you not see the logical error in claiming you cant support Muslims and gays?

Um, you're not on my wavelength. It's like supporting the KKK and Martin Luther King mutually exclusive ideals. Mutual existence of Islam supporters and gays, um, not up to me. I am just pointing out the dichotomy here.

 

[Asclepias]

pe

Its like an obsession with some. Why is it so important to deny this small group of people rights that the rest of us take for granted.

Live,love and go about your business in peace.

The rhetoric is cruel,dehumanizing, hateful and tends to mark out the hater for what they are.

I can think of several reasons, fear,ignorance, inherent character flaws, selective religious intolerance.

But it still doesnt explain it to me fully.

Why do people hate Gays ?

Aren't you the guy that defends Islam, the religion that HATES GAYS, TOO? Um, a little disconnect going on here maybe perhaps? You are playing devils advocate perhaps? Or talking out of both sides of your mouth? Islam and Gays are mutually exclusive issues, you can't defend BOTH...

Do you not understand the difference between defending someone's right to "be" and defending a person or persons who "be" those things?

As goes Islam itself, it's just a religion. What's important is how any given individual, or group of them, interprets it and practices it. If you bother to read the Quran you'd discover that it's not a terribly unreasonable religion, as religions go. Have you read all of any monotheistic faith's scriptures?

Didn't answer the question, thanks for playing! I am a people person. Islam or Christianity is anti gay. Given. Are you anti gay or anti Islam/Christian? Simple question.

If youre a people person do you not see the logical error in claiming you cant support Muslims and gays?

Um, you're not on my wavelength. It's like supporting the KKK and Martin Luther King mutually exclusive ideals. Mutual existence of Islam supporters and gays, um, not up to me. I am just pointing out the dichotomy here.

I would agree I am not on your wave length. My wavelength is a microwave and yours appears to be a very slow macrowave that has yet to oscillate. This has caused you to form a logical fallacy known as false equivalence. Basically your comparing two totally different groups and ideologies and pretending its the same as the one group that both practice Islam and happen to be gay.

 

[320 Years of History]

pe

Its like an obsession with some. Why is it so important to deny this small group of people rights that the rest of us take for granted.

Live,love and go about your business in peace.

The rhetoric is cruel,dehumanizing, hateful and tends to mark out the hater for what they are.

I can think of several reasons, fear,ignorance, inherent character flaws, selective religious intolerance.

But it still doesnt explain it to me fully.

Why do people hate Gays ?

Aren't you the guy that defends Islam, the religion that HATES GAYS, TOO? Um, a little disconnect going on here maybe perhaps? You are playing devils advocate perhaps? Or talking out of both sides of your mouth? Islam and Gays are mutually exclusive issues, you can't defend BOTH...

Do you not understand the difference between defending someone's right to "be" and defending a person or persons who "be" those things?

As goes Islam itself, it's just a religion. What's important is how any given individual, or group of them, interprets it and practices it. If you bother to read the Quran you'd discover that it's not a terribly unreasonable religion, as religions go. Have you read all of any monotheistic faith's scriptures?

Didn't answer the question, thanks for playing! I am a people person. Islam or Christianity is anti gay. Given. Are you anti gay or anti Islam/Christian? Simple question.

Neither.

I recommend you examine closely the possibility that being anti-gay and anti-Christina/Islam are necessarily mutual exclusive things or whether they simply are so in your own mind.

 

[320 Years of History]

pe

Its like an obsession with some. Why is it so important to deny this small group of people rights that the rest of us take for granted.

Live,love and go about your business in peace.

The rhetoric is cruel,dehumanizing, hateful and tends to mark out the hater for what they are.

I can think of several reasons, fear,ignorance, inherent character flaws, selective religious intolerance.

But it still doesnt explain it to me fully.

Why do people hate Gays ?

Aren't you the guy that defends Islam, the religion that HATES GAYS, TOO? Um, a little disconnect going on here maybe perhaps? You are playing devils advocate perhaps? Or talking out of both sides of your mouth? Islam and Gays are mutually exclusive issues, you can't defend BOTH...

Do you not understand the difference between defending someone's right to "be" and defending a person or persons who "be" those things?

As goes Islam itself, it's just a religion. What's important is how any given individual, or group of them, interprets it and practices it. If you bother to read the Quran you'd discover that it's not a terribly unreasonable religion, as religions go. Have you read all of any monotheistic faith's scriptures?

Didn't answer the question, thanks for playing! I am a people person. Islam or Christianity is anti gay. Given. Are you anti gay or anti Islam/Christian? Simple question.

If youre a people person do you not see the logical error in claiming you cant support Muslims and gays?

Red:
One doesn't need to give a damn about people to see that. One need only be able to think clearly and logically to do so. Be careful of succumbing to the same rational error she did.

 

[320 Years of History]

pe

Its like an obsession with some. Why is it so important to deny this small group of people rights that the rest of us take for granted.

Live,love and go about your business in peace.

The rhetoric is cruel,dehumanizing, hateful and tends to mark out the hater for what they are.

I can think of several reasons, fear,ignorance, inherent character flaws, selective religious intolerance.

But it still doesnt explain it to me fully.

Why do people hate Gays ?

Aren't you the guy that defends Islam, the religion that HATES GAYS, TOO? Um, a little disconnect going on here maybe perhaps? You are playing devils advocate perhaps? Or talking out of both sides of your mouth? Islam and Gays are mutually exclusive issues, you can't defend BOTH...

Do you not understand the difference between defending someone's right to "be" and defending a person or persons who "be" those things?

As goes Islam itself, it's just a religion. What's important is how any given individual, or group of them, interprets it and practices it. If you bother to read the Quran you'd discover that it's not a terribly unreasonable religion, as religions go. Have you read all of any monotheistic faith's scriptures?

Didn't answer the question, thanks for playing! I am a people person. Islam or Christianity is anti gay. Given. Are you anti gay or anti Islam/Christian? Simple question.

If youre a people person do you not see the logical error in claiming you cant support Muslims and gays?

Um, you're not on my wavelength. It's like supporting the KKK and Martin Luther King mutually exclusive ideals. Mutual existence of Islam supporters and gays, um, not up to me. I am just pointing out the dichotomy here.

And therein is the problem....the things between which you draw verisimilitude aren't comparable things, and no matter how stridently you attempt to make them be so, they are not and will/can never be.

The KKK are not an individual, they are a group with an ideology. MLK is an individual with an ideology. While their ideologies are incompatible and not together rationally espoused or supported by any single person, one single person can support one's ideology and the other individual/group. I'll leave it to you to figure out how that can be possible.

Applying the same logic to the matter of supporting Islam and gays, one need only find a gay Muslim on the whole planet to prove that one can simultaneously not only support Islam and the rights and freedoms of gay folks, but indeed actually be both. How does that happen? It happens by religion's being, despite what rabbis and rectors, mullahs and muezzins, preachers, priests and popes want you to believe, being a thing that ultimately comes down to each and every adherent's individual interpretation of what their faith instructs, proscribes and permits.

One need only notice that some adherents of a given faith system morph that system into instructions to destroy everyone who differs from and with them, while others do not.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Its like an obsession with some. Why is it so important to deny this small group of people rights that the rest of us take for granted.

Live,love and go about your business in peace.

The rhetoric is cruel,dehumanizing, hateful and tends to mark out the hater for what they are.

I can think of several reasons, fear,ignorance, inherent character flaws, selective religious intolerance.

But it still doesnt explain it to me fully.

Why do people hate Gays ?

Aren't you the guy that defends Islam, the religion that HATES GAYS, TOO? Um, a little disconnect going on here maybe perhaps? You are playing devils advocate perhaps? Or talking out of both sides of your mouth? Islam and Gays are mutually exclusive issues, you can't defend BOTH...

No disconnect at all. I would defend law abiding muslims aganst the brain dead abuse that they get on account of the actions of a few. I would defend the rights of gay muslims to equality and fair play.
I dont see any conflict there. Its about people not ideology or faith.

As it happens both muslims and christians cherry pick the bits of their faith that they follow.

 

[Stephanie]

It it simply an irrational fear that is based in part by a fear of differences and part based upon unquestioning belief in what a person has been taught. The most egregiously homophobic group in the world are Muslims, yet extraordinarily irrational people defend them even as they champion gay rights. Go figure, eh.

wow, that is the truth. we see them defending Muslims all the time. and their treatment of women is just as appalling

 

[Stephanie]

this constant brow beating over lies like how people HATE homosexuals , and how they are so pitiful they need our Government to protect them over the RIGHTS of others in this country. this is causing people to hate, who before just didn't care about other's people sexual preferences and wanted to get on with life

 

[320 Years of History]

It it simply an irrational fear that is based in part by a fear of differences and part based upon unquestioning belief in what a person has been taught. The most egregiously homophobic group in the world are Muslims, yet extraordinarily irrational people defend them even as they champion gay rights. Go figure, eh.

Red:
You know, given your ID name, I'd have thought you would see the distinctions that you clearly do not.

Might it be only dogmas differing from yours of which you are phobic?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

this constant brow beating over lies like how people HATE homosexuals , and how they are so pitiful they need our Government to protect them over the RIGHTS of others in this country. this is causing people to hate, who before just didn't care about other's people sexual preferences and wanted to get on with life

You cannot deny that there is a large amount of hatred directed at Gays. Even looking at this board you can see attempts to dehumanise Gays.

Terms used such as perverts,degenerates,freaks and mentally ill, all sorts of foul stuff.

That is pure bigotry and doesnt even acknowledge an individuals right to exist.

Even on this thread there are comments relating to some Gay people dressing up and having a party.

Whats so difficult about equality ?

Where does the hate come from ?

 

[320 Years of History]

How many children are being raised in same sex households? We have no idea....We are watching a large percentage of our next generation being raised in disadvantaged, second-class citizenship status.

Well....that's not exactly so. I cannot attest to how well publicized the information be, but not well or not widely known isn't the same as unknown.

• Sept. 2011 -- Same-Sex Couple Households
• Feb. 2013 -- LGBT Parenting in the United States

The thing is, however, that there are, relatively speaking, so few kids raised in same sex homes that the types of things one can or needs to do in response to knowing is pretty limited. That said, we certainly, as a nation should not force such individuals -- the kids or the parents -- into a second-class status of any sort. Indeed, I believe one is morally obligated to eschew, abhor and forfend doing that on an identity group/class level with regard to the impacts of any public policies.

 

[Mac1958]

[G]ay pride parades...shove a person's sexuality in the face of an opponent.

Your remark is emblematic and illustrative of how folks who are not members of an ostracized, ridiculed, discriminated against, etc. just don't "get it" when it comes to having an understanding of what it means to be a member of such groups.

• You may feel like gays are "shoving [their] sexuality in [your] face" as a consequence of observing a gay pride parade, but I suspect that for most gays who participate in those events, you and your ilk are the farthest things from their minds. It's incredibly arrogant of you to think that the goings on in a gay pride celebration have a damn thing to do with any so-called "opponents."
  
  If you were able to see the verity of human existence from any standpoint other than your own, you'd understand that they are celebrating themselves, their ability to be as openly "themselves" as are heterosexuals, and just having a big party.
• Has it occurred to you that your sexuality is shoved in their face 365 days a year? Turning the table once a year (or actually about twice a year if you count Halloween) is hardly a big deal. Go to any Spring Break event of your choosing. What about those events is any different from gay pride?
• Gay pride parades are the modern equivalent of a "gay liberation" protest that occurred in NYC in the 1970s.
• Given that the only thing that materially distinguishes gay folks from straight folks is sexual preference, why would a parade celebrating gays freedom to just be themselves take on any visage other than overtly sexual and/or corporeal displays? After all, every other day of the year, gay folks mingle among society and, unless a gay person makes a pass at one, one wouldn't have the first idea they are gay in most instances.
• Woodstock. Nuff said.

Additionally, you really need to get out more. Have you never heard of the Folsom Street Fair? Spring Break? Burning Man? Mardi Gras (New Orleans or Rio)? Every one of them is just some identity group letting of some steam and celebrating who they are, and like Gay Pride, they are basically just huge parties and tons of smaller ones. It may come as a surprise to you to learn that every one of them has scores, thousands in fact, of hetero folks running around scantily clothed.

Do you understand anything at all about identity groups and identity politics? Have you ever attempted, as a part of an objective effort to examine your own views on identity groups, bothered to get such an understanding? I know ignorance is at times blissful, perhaps even comforting and vindicating, and that can make one feel "in the right," but it's nonetheless a state of ignorance in which one exists.

• Five Theses on Identity Politics
• Identities, Sexualities and Commemorations: Pride Parades, Public Space and Sexual Dissidence
  
• Identities Matter: Identity Politics, Coalition Possibilities, and Feminist Organizing
  
• Identity Politics (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

To close, I'd ask you this, if you aren't gay, who are you to tell gays how to celebrate their being?

Quite a diatribe over an overall point I didn't make. And I loved the "your ilk" part. And how you focused on one sentence of many I wrote. Oh, and how you pretend I'm telling gays how to act. Wow, that's quite a list!

I'm pro-gay marriage. My point was that the gay movement goes too far at times and gives the anti-gay movement a target. That was my point with the "shoving their sexuality in their face" comment - perception. And other pro-gay marriage posters agreed with me.

If you think that barely-dressed men carrying massive artificial dicks down a public street is emblematic of that person's "identity", great. I think they're choosing to make things worse for themselves, and I would certainly like to think that there is far more to their "identity" than that. And I know there is. But that is all the public is seeing.

And finally, you know little about me, including the fact that I was born and raised in San Francisco Bay Area, spent a great deal of time in that amazing, beautiful, unique town, and learned from that experience that a vast percentage of gay people are NOT like those who gleefully carry big dicks down the street to showcase their "identity", which is FAR more than merely who they sleep with. They are better than that, far better.

In fact, it occurs to me that maybe I think more of them than YOU do.

 

[Moonglow]

Because gays dont go about their business. They feel compelled to demand overt endorsement and support in every setting and from every group, and they think they should be able to dictate the terms of faith to people. Live your own lives. I dont particularly care what you do...but don't do it in public, then insist everybody applaud.

Man, you have a demanding lesbo lover...Considering the thousands of years that religion has sought out these gheys persecuting and killing them...I figured they deserve a break..

 

[320 Years of History]

I'm pro-gay marriage. My point was that the gay movement goes too far at times and gives the anti-gay movement a target. And other pro-gay marriage posters agreed with me.

Whether you are pro-gay marriage or not, and whether anyone agrees with you or not is:

1. not germane to anything discussed here
2. inconsequential as goes whether you are accurate in implying that the intent of the behavior you've observed in Gay Pride parades constitutes gay folks "shoving a [their] sexuality in the face of an opponent."

FWIW, I'm not pro-marriage of any sort, so it follows that I'm also not pro gay marriage. I am very much in favor of people forming substantive and loving bonds as befits their circumstances, but I don't much care for those bonds needing to be sanctioned by a state in order to be recognized as valid.

One can engage in all manners of contractual relationships without those relationships being called a marriage. Such contracts need not even have any quality of love and caring between/among the parties to it. A child is still one's child, thus being due the care and attention from its parents, regardless of whether its parents be married.

If you think that barely-dressed men carrying massive artificial dicks down a public street is emblematic of that person's "identity", great.

No more than I think the costume and visage a school mascot or costumed person in any other parade, entertainment or celebratory event is emblematic of their identity. Folks dress up as vampires and kings and march in Halloween parades. That they do doesn't lead me to think they actually are indeed pagans, sanguisuges or royalty, or that they even identify with them in any meaningful way, much less to generalize about their character or what be or not their identity.

gay people are NOT like those who gleefully carry big dicks down the street

In what material ways are "gay people not like those [gay people] who gleefully carry" caricaturized images and representations of "anything" in a Gay Pride parade? It seems to me that they are all gay and that's about the beginning and end of any parallel one can rationally draw between the gay folks who are in the parade and those gays folks who are not in the parade.

Gay Pride parades, like most parades, are unique unto themselves. That the imagery one sees depicted in Gay Pride parades is sometimes hypersexualized and/or body-/body part focused is just what makes them different from the other kinds of parades that exist. That they occur in June is why folks, in the Northern Hemisphere at least, aren't wearing a lot clothing. (Remember that Gay Pride originated to commemorate/celebrate an event -- Stonewall Riots -- that occurred at the end of June.) Gay Pride events in the Southern Hemisphere happen during a warm time of year too.

Were you to consider Gay Pride events with awareness of the context in which they occur instead of the context in which you want to put them, or the context in which you want them to fit/conform, you may not have as much of an issue with them.

 

[Mac1958]

Gay Pride parades, like most parades, are unique unto themselves.

Then support them fully. I think they hurt more than they help.
.

 

[Elvis Obama]

How many children are being raised in same sex households? We have no idea....We are watching a large percentage of our next generation being raised in disadvantaged, second-class citizenship status.

Well....that's not exactly so. I cannot attest to how well publicized the information be, but not well or not widely known isn't the same as unknown.

• Sept. 2011 -- Same-Sex Couple Households
• Feb. 2013 -- LGBT Parenting in the United States

The thing is, however, that there are, relatively speaking, so few kids raised in same sex homes that the types of things one can or needs to do in response to knowing is pretty limited. That said, we certainly, as a nation should not force such individuals -- the kids or the parents -- into a second-class status of any sort. Indeed, I believe one is morally obligated to eschew, abhor and forfend doing that on an identity group/class level with regard to the impacts of any public policies.

Yeah, I've seen that estimate and others which put the figure as high as 9 million.

Same-sex Parents and Their Children

Census struggles to reach an accurate number on gay marriages

Acknowledging a “very serious problem” of flawed same-sex marriage data, the U.S. Census Bureau is testing new marriage and relationship questions on its surveys in hopes of producing more accurate numbers in the next few years. According to a presentation earlier this month, the bureau found problems with the data “much worse” than the agency expected.

Given that the subject of this thread is "why do people hate gays?", just how accurate would you expect any such survey to be? 2010 was the first attempt to collect this data, and some data collection errors have caused the figures to be inflated. Others have doubtless caused the figures to be under reported. It will be interesting to see what 2020 shows, with hopefully improvements in both the data collection and the willingness of people to self-identify as gay, in the wake of same-sex marriage rights being recognized by the SC.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

It it simply an irrational fear that is based in part by a fear of differences and part based upon unquestioning belief in what a person has been taught. The most egregiously homophobic group in the world are Muslims, yet extraordinarily irrational people defend them even as they champion gay rights. Go figure, eh.

Red:
You know, given your ID name, I'd have thought you would see the distinctions that you clearly do not.

Might it be only dogmas differing from yours of which you are phobic?

Given my screen name, I notice the stupidity and utter hypocrisy of those who champion the very antithesis of what they claim to support. If posters who elevated the defense of the kkk to their top priority tried to claim they were against racism, I would react similarly.

I realize you are wishing to discuss me rather than the subject here, but the fact that I do know what the majority of Muslims believe and have not joined the cult that automatically defends them out of political correctness by no means indicates it is myself who is dogmatic here.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Gay Pride parades, like most parades, are unique unto themselves.

Then support them fully. I think they hurt more than they help.
.

It has been my experience that extremists see even the slightest derivation from their rigid views as being equally extreme in the opposite direction. It isn't enough that you do support gay rights, here, as you are being required to support any and all behavior a person engages in because they are gay.

The authoritarian left had simply inverted the old systems of privilege by creating new ones where a persons identity now provides an exemption when it comes to expectations for acceptable behavior.

 

[Mac1958]

Gay Pride parades, like most parades, are unique unto themselves.

Then support them fully. I think they hurt more than they help.
.

It has been my experience that extremists see even the slightest derivation from their rigid views as being equally extreme in the opposite direction. It isn't enough that you do support gay rights, here, as you are being required to support any and all behavior a person engages in because they are gay.

The authoritarian left had simply invested the old systems of privilege by creating new ones where a persons identity now provides an exemption when it comes to expectations for acceptable behavior.

I truly am growing tired of this simplistic, shallow, binary thought. You're either 100% this, or 100% that, and that's it.

Interestingly, I'm not sure if this is done on purpose or whether it's because ideology distorts perceptions.

Whichever, I just exit the conversations at this point, not worth the effort.
.