Why does the NRA shill "defense gun use" when there are only 500 cases of self defense a year...

[2aguy]

Google CDC gun defense statistics.I was off by about 2 million. The CDC estimates that the use of firearms by Americans for defense might go as high as 3 million per year.

Do you have something against linking to the relevant CDC cite which supports your claim?

Here is a slate.com article on the CDC report.....I don't have a direct link yet...

Handguns suicides mass shootings deaths and self-defense Findings from a research report on gun violence.

7. Guns are used for self-defense often and effectively. “Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year … i

n the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008,” says the report. The three million figure is probably high, “based on an extrapolation from a small number of responses taken from more than 19 national surveys.”

But a much lower estimate of 108,000 also seems fishy, “because respondents were not asked specifically about defensive gun use.”

Furthermore, “Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was 'used' by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies.”

 

[g5000]

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

I found that CDC report to which you guys have not linked, and I found the page that number comes from: Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence

Here is the full context:

Defensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). On the other hand, some scholars point to a radically lower estimate of only 108,000 annual defensive uses based on the National Crime Victimization Survey (Cook et al., 1997). The variation in these numbers remains a controversy in the field. The estimate of 3 million defensive uses per year is based on an extrapolation from a small number of responses taken from more than 19 national surveys. The former estimate of 108,000 is difficult to interpret because respondents were not asked specifically about defensive gun use.

Wild, wild variation on the estimates. None of those figures can be taken as gospel. Not by a long shot, no pun intended.

 

[g5000]

Google CDC gun defense statistics.I was off by about 2 million. The CDC estimates that the use of firearms by Americans for defense might go as high as 3 million per year.

Do you have something against linking to the relevant CDC cite which supports your claim?

Here is a slate.com article on the CDC report.....I don't have a direct link yet...

Handguns suicides mass shootings deaths and self-defense Findings from a research report on gun violence.

Slate is a heavily biased media outlet.

I found the study. See my previous post.

 

[2aguy]

Google CDC gun defense statistics.I was off by about 2 million. The CDC estimates that the use of firearms by Americans for defense might go as high as 3 million per year.

Do you have something against linking to the relevant CDC cite which supports your claim?

Here is a slate.com article on the CDC report.....I don't have a direct link yet...

Handguns suicides mass shootings deaths and self-defense Findings from a research report on gun violence.

Slate is a heavily biased media outlet.

I found the study. See my previous post.

Thanks.....


That is one of the reasons I use it.....slate is a lefty site and they quote the high numbers of gun defense uses....drives the lefty gun grabbers into a real pissy mood when they see who is stating it...............

 

[g5000]

The OP is built on an FBI statistic about justifiable homicides by police. The OP writer has a serious comprehension problem. The table to which he linked has nothing to do with self-defense incidents by civilians, and certainly has no connection to self-defense incidents in which no one was killed or injured, either by police or civilians.

And so his premise catastrophically collapses.

 

[2aguy]

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

I found that CDC report to which you guys have not linked, and I found the page that number comes from: Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence

Here is the full context:

Defensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). On the other hand, some scholars point to a radically lower estimate of only 108,000 annual defensive uses based on the National Crime Victimization Survey (Cook et al., 1997). The variation in these numbers remains a controversy in the field. The estimate of 3 million defensive uses per year is based on an extrapolation from a small number of responses taken from more than 19 national surveys. The former estimate of 108,000 is difficult to interpret because respondents were not asked specifically about defensive gun use.

Wild, wild variation on the estimates. None of those figures can be taken as gospel. Not by a long shot, no pun intended.

Which is why I average the numbers from the all the studies I have access to....and all the studies average out to 1.6 million times a year....and then if you take out studies that include military and police shootings you get an average of 2 million civilian defensive shootings....it is all in my posts above....

 

[g5000]

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

I found that CDC report to which you guys have not linked, and I found the page that number comes from: Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence

Here is the full context:

Defensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). On the other hand, some scholars point to a radically lower estimate of only 108,000 annual defensive uses based on the National Crime Victimization Survey (Cook et al., 1997). The variation in these numbers remains a controversy in the field. The estimate of 3 million defensive uses per year is based on an extrapolation from a small number of responses taken from more than 19 national surveys. The former estimate of 108,000 is difficult to interpret because respondents were not asked specifically about defensive gun use.

Wild, wild variation on the estimates. None of those figures can be taken as gospel. Not by a long shot, no pun intended.

Which is why I average the numbers from the all the studies I have access to....and all the studies average out to 1.6 million times a year....and then if you take out studies that include military and police shootings you get an average of 2 million civilian defensive shootings....it is all in my posts above....

That is grossly unscientific.

If most studies say 300,000 and one whackadoo comes up with 20 million, and you average the numbers, you will be giving more weight to the whackadoo study than it deserves.

Nevertheless, the numbers strongly suggest that, at worst, people use guns defensively as often as they are used offensively. At best, people are using them far, far more defensively than they are being used offensively. And that is a winner for the pro gun side of the debate.

 

[2aguy]

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

I found that CDC report to which you guys have not linked, and I found the page that number comes from: Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence

Here is the full context:

Defensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010). On the other hand, some scholars point to a radically lower estimate of only 108,000 annual defensive uses based on the National Crime Victimization Survey (Cook et al., 1997). The variation in these numbers remains a controversy in the field. The estimate of 3 million defensive uses per year is based on an extrapolation from a small number of responses taken from more than 19 national surveys. The former estimate of 108,000 is difficult to interpret because respondents were not asked specifically about defensive gun use.

Wild, wild variation on the estimates. None of those figures can be taken as gospel. Not by a long shot, no pun intended.

Which is why I average the numbers from the all the studies I have access to....and all the studies average out to 1.6 million times a year....and then if you take out studies that include military and police shootings you get an average of 2 million civilian defensive shootings....it is all in my posts above....

That is grossly unscientific.

If most studies say 300,000 and one whackadoo comes up with 20 million, and you average the numbers, you will be giving more weight to the whackadoo study than it deserves.

Nevertheless, the numbers strongly suggest that, at worst, people use guns defensively as often as they are used offensively. At best, people are using them far, far more defensively than they are being used offensively. And that is a winner for the pro gun side of the debate.

Well, none of the studies were done by wackadoos in the first place so the average of actual studies done by actual researchers is a good way to get a general number on the use of guns....if you look at the people doing the research they are actual researchers, not hacks.....economists, criminologists and experts in research......

And not one study has the number less than 764,000 times a gun is used for self defense.....

 

[JoeB131]

We're talking about you here Joe.

Lay down socialism for just a minute here and focus

Dead thugs are BETTER than emotionally scarred law abiding citizens who have been victims of crime

Yeah, well, it strikes me your hero Zimmerman has been involved in a stalking incident, beating several partners, and even got into another shootout with a citizen...

So hardly the solid "law abiding" citizen you want to make him out to be.

 

[JoeB131]

Speaking of cold-blooded murder.......


57,762,169 Abortions in America Since Roe vs. Wade in 1973

fetuses aren't people.

 

[The Rabbi]

We're talking about you here Joe.

Lay down socialism for just a minute here and focus

Dead thugs are BETTER than emotionally scarred law abiding citizens who have been victims of crime

Yeah, well, it strikes me your hero Zimmerman has been involved in a stalking incident, beating several partners, and even got into another shootout with a citizen...

So hardly the solid "law abiding" citizen you want to make him out to be.

Got into another shooting? You mean someone took aim at him and pulled the trigger. That hardly sounds like his fault, capiche?

 

[2aguy]

Speaking of cold-blooded murder.......


57,762,169 Abortions in America Since Roe vs. Wade in 1973

fetuses aren't people.

Only to the foolish.......

 

[skookerasbil]

More gun grabber gheyness...............

The research is clear........more guns = less crimes/murders. Not even debatable.

Will post up the research by request!!!

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

And most of them are by cops, or don;t involve guns at all

There are only about 500 cases of self defense in the United States a year



http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...ded_homicide_data_table_14_justifiable_homici de_by_weapon_law_enforcement_2009-2013.xls


These 500 self defense cases include:


* Those involving police officers, which makes up the vast majority of cases


* people whose lives were not in danger, but who simply killed somebody trying to take their purse of TV sets


* Cold blooded murders justified under "stand your ground" laws, such as the murders of Trayvon Martin or Michael Brown


*Cases NOT involving guns, but instead where self defense was carried out with a baseball bat or pepper spray


Meanwhile, 30,000 innocent people minding their own business are shot a year with guns. Key Gun Violence Statistics Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence


So let me ask you this: how does 500 cases of self defense a year, most of them by police officers or not involving guns at all, justify the ownership of guns for self defense, at the cost of 30,000 innocent lives a year?

Because self defense is a fundamental duty of every free sovereign and ONE DEFENSE IS ENOUGH..

 

[Wildman]

who really cares about stats, CDC, FBI or any other entity, if any crook (read, liberal) tries to kick my door down or tries any sort of forced entry, do you think (liberfools, FEEEEEL) he/she will continue upon looking down the barrels of my legal short barreled 12 Ga. loaded with double OO Buck shot ?

what's your call libs, will he/she continue kicking or flee ?

one more kick and that scumbag's next person he/she meets will be in the autopsy room who will be plucking 24, .32 caliber round balls (i have military grade brass ammo with 12 balls in each round) from what is left of their carcass.