"Why Doesn't God Reveal Its Existence?" and other FAQ

[PratchettFan]

Why won't he give it to me then?

Interestingly, no one in the Bible had faith. Everyone there KNEW God or Jesus existed. Was never a matter of listening to some disciple telling them things then having to put their trust and faith in that disciple while hoping they weren't corrupt. Yet today we're asked to have faith absent anyone reliable. Most every theologian today is earning a living from religion thus their claims aren't very reliable. Of course they're saying God exists, they'd be out of work if they didn't.

They didn't have hindsight like we have when reading the Bible.
When Jesus died, the disciples went back to fishing which means they gave up. What faith is that?

A rational one?

 

[Indeependent]

Your senses are currently exposed to God.
You sense what you can handle based on your own ego.
If you want to sense more, deflate your ego.
Most people can't handle more truth than what their egos will allow.

 

[Chuckt]

Interestingly, no one in the Bible had faith. Everyone there KNEW God or Jesus existed. Was never a matter of listening to some disciple telling them things then having to put their trust and faith in that disciple while hoping they weren't corrupt. Yet today we're asked to have faith absent anyone reliable. Most every theologian today is earning a living from religion thus their claims aren't very reliable. Of course they're saying God exists, they'd be out of work if they didn't.

They didn't have hindsight like we have when reading the Bible.
When Jesus died, the disciples went back to fishing which means they gave up. What faith is that?

A rational one?

Christianity gave us The Declaration of Independence where we are endowed by our creator with unalienable rights that some atheist took away with the Patriot Act.
Christianity gave us the framework for our legal system
Christianity built hospitals and a lot of our Universities were started by Christians.

Therefore Christianity is rational.

 

[BillyP]

They didn't have hindsight like we have when reading the Bible.
When Jesus died, the disciples went back to fishing which means they gave up. What faith is that?

A rational one?

Christianity gave us The Declaration of Independence where we are endowed by our creator with unalienable rights that some atheist took away with the Patriot Act.
Christianity gave us the framework for our legal system
Christianity built hospitals and a lot of our Universities were started by Christians.

Therefore Christianity is rational.

Christianity believes that the world was made in 6 days, which science has disproved. Also no evidence of a world wide flood. It's also not rational to think that Noah got polar bears, kangaroos and other far away animals on his boat. As well, since Noah had no Asians on his boat, where did they come from?

So no, Christianity is not rational.

 

[Indeependent]

They didn't have hindsight like we have when reading the Bible.
When Jesus died, the disciples went back to fishing which means they gave up. What faith is that?

A rational one?

Christianity gave us The Declaration of Independence where we are endowed by our creator with unalienable rights that some atheist took away with the Patriot Act.
Christianity gave us the framework for our legal system
Christianity built hospitals and a lot of our Universities were started by Christians.

Therefore Christianity is rational.

All Jewish Scripture concepts and actions.
In fact, the Noachide Laws took care of these rational behaviors several thousand years ago.

 

[PratchettFan]

They didn't have hindsight like we have when reading the Bible.
When Jesus died, the disciples went back to fishing which means they gave up. What faith is that?

A rational one?

Christianity gave us The Declaration of Independence where we are endowed by our creator with unalienable rights that some atheist took away with the Patriot Act.
Christianity gave us the framework for our legal system
Christianity built hospitals and a lot of our Universities were started by Christians.

Therefore Christianity is rational.

Christianity didn't do any of that. People did.

What you asked is what faith is it when people who were eye witnesses to events just leave. The answer is a rational one. They were there, witnessed the events first hand, and walked away. Perhaps they knew something you don't.

 

[PratchettFan]

A rational one?

Christianity gave us The Declaration of Independence where we are endowed by our creator with unalienable rights that some atheist took away with the Patriot Act.
Christianity gave us the framework for our legal system
Christianity built hospitals and a lot of our Universities were started by Christians.

Therefore Christianity is rational.

All Jewish Scripture concepts and actions.
In fact, the Noachide Laws took care of these rational behaviors several thousand years ago.

Our legal framework is Roman - Pagan. So is our alphabet. Our numerical system is Arabic - Muslim. Hospitals go back to early Egypt, as does banking. Religion created nothing, people did. Religion is just an example of human behavior.

 

[Chuckt]

A rational one?

Christianity gave us The Declaration of Independence where we are endowed by our creator with unalienable rights that some atheist took away with the Patriot Act.
Christianity gave us the framework for our legal system
Christianity built hospitals and a lot of our Universities were started by Christians.

Therefore Christianity is rational.

Christianity didn't do any of that. People did.

What you asked is what faith is it when people who were eye witnesses to events just leave. The answer is a rational one. They were there, witnessed the events first hand, and walked away. Perhaps they knew something you don't.

I toured some of the historical sites and they have names of Christians.
They tore the pages out of Bibles for wadding to use in their guns.
They melted the church bells down to use in the war.
Some of our churches were destroyed by the British.
Christians died for your cherished freedom.

 

[PratchettFan]

Christianity gave us The Declaration of Independence where we are endowed by our creator with unalienable rights that some atheist took away with the Patriot Act.
Christianity gave us the framework for our legal system
Christianity built hospitals and a lot of our Universities were started by Christians.

Therefore Christianity is rational.

Christianity didn't do any of that. People did.

What you asked is what faith is it when people who were eye witnesses to events just leave. The answer is a rational one. They were there, witnessed the events first hand, and walked away. Perhaps they knew something you don't.

I toured some of the historical sites and they have names of Christians.
They tore the pages out of Bibles for wadding to use in their guns.
They melted the church bells down to use in the war.
Some of our churches were destroyed by the British.
Christians died for your cherished freedom.

The British were Christians.

 

[Chuckt]

Christianity didn't do any of that. People did.

What you asked is what faith is it when people who were eye witnesses to events just leave. The answer is a rational one. They were there, witnessed the events first hand, and walked away. Perhaps they knew something you don't.

I toured some of the historical sites and they have names of Christians.
They tore the pages out of Bibles for wadding to use in their guns.
They melted the church bells down to use in the war.
Some of our churches were destroyed by the British.
Christians died for your cherished freedom.

The British were Christians.

They didn't have rights as Christians because of the King.

 

[PratchettFan]

I toured some of the historical sites and they have names of Christians.
They tore the pages out of Bibles for wadding to use in their guns.
They melted the church bells down to use in the war.
Some of our churches were destroyed by the British.
Christians died for your cherished freedom.

The British were Christians.

They didn't have rights as Christians because of the King.

The slaves were Christians. Why didn't they have rights?

 

[PratchettFan]

I toured some of the historical sites and they have names of Christians.
They tore the pages out of Bibles for wadding to use in their guns.
They melted the church bells down to use in the war.
Some of our churches were destroyed by the British.
Christians died for your cherished freedom.

The British were Christians.

They didn't have rights as Christians because of the King.

Lest I forget. The King was a Christian.

 

[MaxGrit]

How many times does He have to comeback? Every generation? How many times does He have to bring the dead back with Him after He was dead and buried? How many eyewitnesses have to testify before we can believe? How many prophesies have to come to fruition before we realize that there is someone who actually can see the end from the beginning?

Did you ask the boys which countries are about to invade Israel? Do you think they even know there is an Israel when they can't even recognize a picture of our Vice President?

I would have told them, "God said these things would happen. Now go home and watch the news, and if they are happening just the way God told us 2000 years ago that they would, there must be God." Tell them the countries that God said would invade Israel. Tell them the weaponry God intends to use to defeat those who invade Israel. Tell them to look for the invaders to kill each other instead of the Jews. Tell them to look for giant hail to drive the invaders back.

Maybe when they see these signs, they will realize that there really is a God. Most kids today have never seen a Bible. And have 0 knowledge of who we're talking about, and don't know what to look for. They wouldn't recognize Christ unless He was on Facebook or sending them texts with selfies....

Fucking right he should come back every generation and walk on water, turn water into wine, ride a donkey, and then get nailed to a cross in a Depends and then come back again, over and over again. Otherwise there's seriously no proof that that Jesus even existed.

As I told the children here, if we had irrefutable proof of God would we still worship him out of love, or out of fear? If we know God exists like we know the Sun does, do we still have free will to worship or not? When confronted by a god so much higher on the evolutionary food chain than ourselves, isn't worshipping it a no-brainer out of self-interest? Whereas if God avoids revealing its' existence, then those that seek him and worship him in the complete absence of proof are the ones he'd be pleased with moreso than any just going through the motions out of fear.

Great line from an episode of "Futurama" "Godfellas" episode, "When you do things right, people wont be sure you did anything at all."

Both fear and love for God are mentioned in the Bible.

Free will is an illusion that is real.

 

[sealybobo]

God reveals Himself to those who seek Him all the time. Humble yourself and do as He asks and you can know for yourself that He is there too.

Translation: If you believe hard enough you will believe because you want to believe and you will even throw out common sense and logic.

I can't claim to be perfect but I lived my life just about as right as you can. I have my faults, I've sinned, but I lived a good life and I am a good person and I was raised christian and I'm sorry but I just can not call myself a christian anymore and nor can I say I believe in an invisible man no matter what stories of hell you try to scare me with, I just can't believe a lie. Nor will I feel guilty because fools tell me I should.

Actually it is God who calls for the seekers to seek. Faith is from God and not a man can have faith without God giving it to him.

Then your parents and/or preachers are god(s) because they gave it to you, like a disease.

And I do realize ignorance is bliss. I also realize it must feel really good to know you have a god looking out for you and a heaven waiting for you. If I believed in hell I'd want to believe/hope/pray that god favors me too. What do the Jehovas say? Only how many people get into heaven? Do you believe that? Or the Mormons who say god told them your religion is bullshit. Do you believe that? Or the muslims who believe you're going to hell. Do you believe that? You believe what your society told you to believe. And if you go against your society and you are of a different faith like scientology, I am fascinated with people who convert from one religion to another or a person who should have found jesus but instead found mohammad.

 

[emilynghiem]

[MENTION=46449]Delta4Embassy[/MENTION]

We have to forgive past misgivings, grudges, conflicts and injustice
to have a clear enough mind to see the will and wisdom of God at work.

It is ever present.

But God cannot make us forgive, that has to be by our free choice.

the most forgiving people tend to be the most open, perceptive and least biased.
So they can see more of God's ways than those who are busy rejecting and judging.

You can't blame the music for not being heard or played correctly.
The music is there, all around us, but if we are too busy making noise and clashing with
each other, we're going to miss it.

Inspired by a discussion with some local kids the other day about the existence (or non-existence) of God, my mind's been chewing over the question ever since. My current thinking os two-fold:

"First, if we had incontrovertible evidence God existed, something sufficient that even Richard Dawkins and disciples would have to agree, "Yep, that's God all right." would we then worship GOd because we chose to, or because we feared the consequences if we didn't? Isn't it better to be worshipped by choice instead of compulsion?

Secondly, proof of God doesn't translate into faith in God. The Jews freed from slavery in Egypt had such proof. God was giving them mana daily and presumedly water, and other things to keep them alive as they crossed open-desert en route to the Promised Land. But despite this evidence they could all agree upon that God existed, they demanded more. More food, more water, and of course endless "Are we there yet?" So while they had proof God existed, it didn't then mean they also had faith.

So perhaps the dilemna we have today with nothing concrete to set our backs against is by design. God knows that if She proved Her existence ('He' or 'Her' is just as accurate as 'It') we'd either submit to Her Law out of fear, or, if out of love we'd eventually seek more from Her. Whereas by concealing Her existence and leaving it up to faith we make a choice to believe and obey or disbelieve. But faith seems to be preferred in any event. But isn't as likely to come about with solid evidence.

We KNOW the government exists. But rather than simply being content with roads and bridges (such as they are heh) and having the lights go on, and food in our stores and bellies, we invariably seek more from it. More tax breaks, more freedom, etc.. Whereas if government were uncertain, and whether the next food shipment to stores for us to buy wasn't a certainty, maybe we'd be content with whatever we had at a given moment rather than striving for more.

"I want more power Scotty!"

"I can't werk meeruhkles Cap'n!"

Just occured to me.

 

[sealybobo]

Actually it is God who calls for the seekers to seek. Faith is from God and not a man can have faith without God giving it to him.

Why won't he give it to me then?

Seriously... do you want it? I certainly don't.

“I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.” – Carl Sagan

 

[PratchettFan]

Why won't he give it to me then?

Seriously... do you want it? I certainly don't.

“I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.” – Carl Sagan

"I can think of no greater horror than eternal life." - Me

 

[sealybobo]

How many times does He have to comeback? Every generation? How many times does He have to bring the dead back with Him after He was dead and buried? How many eyewitnesses have to testify before we can believe? How many prophesies have to come to fruition before we realize that there is someone who actually can see the end from the beginning?

Did you ask the boys which countries are about to invade Israel? Do you think they even know there is an Israel when they can't even recognize a picture of our Vice President?

I would have told them, "God said these things would happen. Now go home and watch the news, and if they are happening just the way God told us 2000 years ago that they would, there must be God." Tell them the countries that God said would invade Israel. Tell them the weaponry God intends to use to defeat those who invade Israel. Tell them to look for the invaders to kill each other instead of the Jews. Tell them to look for giant hail to drive the invaders back.

Maybe when they see these signs, they will realize that there really is a God. Most kids today have never seen a Bible. And have 0 knowledge of who we're talking about, and don't know what to look for. They wouldn't recognize Christ unless He was on Facebook or sending them texts with selfies....

Fucking right he should come back every generation and walk on water, turn water into wine, ride a donkey, and then get nailed to a cross in a Depends and then come back again, over and over again. Otherwise there's seriously no proof that that Jesus even existed.

As I told the children here, if we had irrefutable proof of God would we still worship him out of love, or out of fear? If we know God exists like we know the Sun does, do we still have free will to worship or not? When confronted by a god so much higher on the evolutionary food chain than ourselves, isn't worshipping it a no-brainer out of self-interest? Whereas if God avoids revealing its' existence, then those that seek him and worship him in the complete absence of proof are the ones he'd be pleased with moreso than any just going through the motions out of fear.

Great line from an episode of "Futurama" "Godfellas" episode, "When you do things right, people wont be sure you did anything at all."

Great points. First of all, people who believe in god say they are certain. And what kind of mind fuck test is that for god to hide from us and then require that we believe a corrupt society when it tells us he exists.

OMG, did you watch Noah yet? Apparently Noah and I agree on this one. Because according to the movie, he and his family were the only ones who were good. The entire society besides him was corrupt, sinful & evil. So after watching that story I find it amazing that you want me to swallow a story that our current society is trying to feed me.

Then look over to the muslim world and look how they are swallowing that lie. Remind you of someone? YOU!

This self interest part you bring up is why people believe the lie. Believe and go to heaven or don't and go to hell. Would a god say that or is that most likely what a cult would say? The only difference between cults and religions is the number of members.

Would you do bad things if you didn't believe in god? I don't believe and I don't do bad things. Wouldn't a god reward me for my intelligence and for being good without the fear of hell? You have to be lied to in order for you to be good, apparently. Not me.

 

[Avatar4321]

God reveals Himself to those who seek Him all the time. Humble yourself and do as He asks and you can know for yourself that He is there too.

Translation: If you believe hard enough you will believe because you want to believe and you will even throw out common sense and logic.

I can't claim to be perfect but I lived my life just about as right as you can. I have my faults, I've sinned, but I lived a good life and I am a good person and I was raised christian and I'm sorry but I just can not call myself a christian anymore and nor can I say I believe in an invisible man no matter what stories of hell you try to scare me with, I just can't believe a lie. Nor will I feel guilty because fools tell me I should.

You're pretty poor at translating. I highly suggest you get yourself a Urim and Thumim.

God has made promises. "Ask and ye shall receive." "seek and ye shall find" "Knock and it shall be opened unto you"

He has also promised that any of us who seek wisdom can ask of Him and He will give it liberally.

He has promised that the pure in heart shall see Him.

He has told us "To prove Him" and see whether He will open the blessings to us.

He has promised us if we do the doctrine we will know whether it's from God or not.

Moses spent years trying to convince the Israelites to sanctify themselves so that they could enter the Lord's presence.

In fact, the whole Bible is God trying to convince people to reach out and get to know Him. In fact, we can't have Eternal life unless we know Him. And I am not talking just reading the scriptures. The Pharisees read the scriptures, and they didn't know Him when he was standing in front of them!

The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is inviting us all to get to know Him. Now we have a choice, do we humble ourselves and seek to get to know Him? Or do we instead place demands on him and come to Him in our pride and arrogance demanding He do things our way instead of the way He has established.

If you want to know if God is there, then follow Him. Talk with Him. Serve Him. For how can a man know the master He has never served?

 

[sealybobo]

Seriously... do you want it? I certainly don't.

“I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.” – Carl Sagan

"I can think of no greater horror than eternal life." - Me

What if every day was sunny and 75 degrees? If you could ejaculate just thinking about it. If you could eat whatever you wanted and not gain weight. To have everything your heart desired. To be able to fly. To be with all your love ones and always get along. To never be tired. To never be sick. Where every woman you want is attracted to you. Where your dog never dies. Where you never have to work. Where every time you cast the rod and reel you catch a fish.

When you think about it it's actually really fucking silly. Wishful thinking.