"Why Doesn't God Reveal Its Existence?" and other FAQ

[PratchettFan]

“I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.” – Carl Sagan

"I can think of no greater horror than eternal life." - Me

What if every day was sunny and 75 degrees? If you could ejaculate just thinking about it. If you could eat whatever you wanted and not gain weight. To have everything your heart desired. To be able to fly. To be with all your love ones and always get along. To never be tired. To never be sick. Where every woman you want is attracted to you. Where your dog never dies. Where you never have to work. Where every time you cast the rod and reel you catch a fish.

When you think about it it's actually really fucking silly. Wishful thinking.

Under those conditions, the only thing you would crave would be oblivion.

 

[emilynghiem]

Why won't he give it to me then?

Seriously... do you want it? I certainly don't.

“I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.” – Carl Sagan

Hi [MENTION=11281]sealybobo[/MENTION]

I see the "spirit passing on" like how Einstein, Jefferson, Mozart, and Shakespeare are still with us today "in spirit."

They are not conscious of themselves in the same way they were when they were alive in human bodies.

Their inspirations and aspirations live on through a higher level than that.

The part of them that was "aware they had influence" on future generations
took place in the past when they were living just like you and I do now, where
we can imagine being connected to forefathers before us, and posterity after us.

The part that lives on eternally is independent of time, and doesn't think in the same terms but is generally connected to all humanity collectively and is no longer bound individually.

 

[emilynghiem]

The British were Christians.

They didn't have rights as Christians because of the King.

The slaves were Christians. Why didn't they have rights?

Hi [MENTION=37752]PratchettFan[/MENTION]
The cycle of karma that went into slavery in the past, and which continues today in terms of political slavery still dividing and oppressing people,
is not yet fully broken, resolved and healed. People are still driven by selfish fear and competing for control; while others who have figured it out
are trying to live by love and charity in a world that rewards material greed and negative hate campaigns. We still have a ways to go, to organize
resources and education to create more sustainable systems to support the world's populations without resorting to unfair competition to survive.

Christ Jesus represents the breaking of the cycle of sin or karma, passed down
from previous generations. The process is not finished yet, since mankind still has to go through linear stages, similar to the grief and recovery process that requires stages.

Christ Jesus in secular terms means "Restorative Justice" that overcomes wrongs to bring peace, restores broken relations with good faith so corrections and restitution can be made to balance the scales of justice.

People are in different stages, so that is why it will look so inconsistent. Some people are still in the anger stage, others in denial and projection and still oppressing and rejecting others. Some are in higher stages of forgiveness and correction.

To understand Christianity, it helps to look at the people further along in the process; if you ask them what it took to find spiritual peace, first going through anger and grief, before forgiving and overcoming tremendous injustice, then you can understand why people aren't in the same place, and not judge on the surface, but look at the different circumstances and stages to see the bigger process that each person, and all humanity, is going through.

Eventually we will all reach maturity and peace. But in the meantime, the world and the tragic history of humanity looks like pure madness and chaos, like a school full of kids of all ages thrown together with no understanding of why each other is acting the way they are.

 

[Steven_R]

"I can think of no greater horror than eternal life." - Me

What if every day was sunny and 75 degrees? If you could ejaculate just thinking about it. If you could eat whatever you wanted and not gain weight. To have everything your heart desired. To be able to fly. To be with all your love ones and always get along. To never be tired. To never be sick. Where every woman you want is attracted to you. Where your dog never dies. Where you never have to work. Where every time you cast the rod and reel you catch a fish.

When you think about it it's actually really fucking silly. Wishful thinking.

Under those conditions, the only thing you would crave would be oblivion.

I don't know what makes a soul, or even if something along those lines even exists, or if whatever spark humanity has is just a function of our evolved brains. I suspect when I do die, it's just lights out one last time and that's that. I go to sleep one final time and whatever made me me is extinguished. No eternity, no reunion with loved ones, on joining with a creator like V'Ger wanted or becoming one with the Force or touching the face of God.

But I take a real comfort in knowing that despite that finality, I will live on. The atoms in me will go on to be the atoms in something else, be it another animal, a rainstorm, a space probe and so on, over and over and over for the next 10 billion years until the Earth is consumed by an expanding sun. My atoms will become part of the heart of a dying star that will explode and my atoms will be reused in a new star and new planets and maybe even new life long after humanity has ceased to exist. Until proton decay finally catches up with me som 10^10^100 yeas from now, I will live on and on and on and even then, the individual subatomic particles will go on until the end of the universe in whatever form it eventually takes.

It's a better fate than endlessly praising some vain God in need of attention for eternity if you ask me.

 

[RKMBrown]

Gotta love how the atheists think they can prove they are right by closing their eyes, sticking their fingers in their ears and screaming there is no proof of gods existence. Who do they think they are convincing? And why are they recruiting? For what, to be disciples of Satan or of self?

 

[Steven_R]

I see no objective proof of any God, much less the specific god in the form of Jehovah and/or Jesus. All there is to show such a god ever existed is a self-referential book. Sorry, but that's how it goes.

 

[RKMBrown]

I see no objective proof of any God, much less the specific god in the form of Jehovah and/or Jesus. All there is to show such a god ever existed is a self-referential book. Sorry, but that's how it goes.

So by your definition of your version of god, you prove he does not exist.

I say god is the fabric of the universe. Prove I'm wrong.

 

[BillyP]

I see no objective proof of any God, much less the specific god in the form of Jehovah and/or Jesus. All there is to show such a god ever existed is a self-referential book. Sorry, but that's how it goes.

So by your definition of your version of god, you prove he does not exist.

I say god is the fabric of the universe. Prove I'm wrong.

You're a noob, therefore you're wrong. That was too easy.

 

[Steven_R]

Until I see proof of God, I can't say He exists. I don't need to prove you wrong, but you do need to prove you right if you want me to get on board with your religion.

 

[RKMBrown]

Until I see proof of God, I can't say He exists. I don't need to prove you wrong, but you do need to prove you right if you want me to get on board with your religion.

You can't see the universe around you? What are you blind?

 

[RKMBrown]

I see no objective proof of any God, much less the specific god in the form of Jehovah and/or Jesus. All there is to show such a god ever existed is a self-referential book. Sorry, but that's how it goes.

So by your definition of your version of god, you prove he does not exist.

I say god is the fabric of the universe. Prove I'm wrong.

You're a noob, therefore you're wrong. That was too easy.

I pwn you, therefore your statements have no sway over mine.

 

[Steven_R]

Until I see proof of God, I can't say He exists. I don't need to prove you wrong, but you do need to prove you right if you want me to get on board with your religion.

You can't see the universe around you? What are you blind?

I'm a physicist. I need more than that.

 

[RKMBrown]

Until I see proof of God, I can't say He exists. I don't need to prove you wrong, but you do need to prove you right if you want me to get on board with your religion.

You can't see the universe around you? What are you blind?

I'm a physicist. I need more than that.

What does your limited view of the cosmos have to do with the existence of the fabric within which your limited view exists? That you believe yourself to be a physicist is proof of god's existence. Without the fabric of space and time (my god) you could not express your belief. Further, you would not exist at all.

 

[Steven_R]

Poe's Law being in effect, are you trolling or serious?

 

[RKMBrown]

Poe's Law being in effect, are you trolling or serious?

That's funny.

While there may have been some less than serious adjectives selected. I do believe there's more to energy, matter, space, time, and physics than "nothing". I don't believe in the concept that when I die there is nothing in space and time there to catch my essence in some form or other. Thus, in the absence of believing in nothing, I see that the possibilities are not only endless but in fact have a form and shape known as life. I see the entire universe as life itself, which is what I term as god/heaven.

For example, I can modulate information onto a carrier signal and send that millions of miles across space. Seems a minor task then for there to be some other dimension where other beings can capture our essence at our death. This in the context of infinite space and time.

 

[MaxGrit]

Translation: If you believe hard enough you will believe because you want to believe and you will even throw out common sense and logic.

I can't claim to be perfect but I lived my life just about as right as you can. I have my faults, I've sinned, but I lived a good life and I am a good person and I was raised christian and I'm sorry but I just can not call myself a christian anymore and nor can I say I believe in an invisible man no matter what stories of hell you try to scare me with, I just can't believe a lie. Nor will I feel guilty because fools tell me I should.

Actually it is God who calls for the seekers to seek. Faith is from God and not a man can have faith without God giving it to him.

Then your parents and/or preachers are god(s) because they gave it to you, like a disease.

And I do realize ignorance is bliss. I also realize it must feel really good to know you have a god looking out for you and a heaven waiting for you. If I believed in hell I'd want to believe/hope/pray that god favors me too. What do the Jehovas say? Only how many people get into heaven? Do you believe that? Or the Mormons who say god told them your religion is bullshit. Do you believe that? Or the muslims who believe you're going to hell. Do you believe that? You believe what your society told you to believe. And if you go against your society and you are of a different faith like scientology, I am fascinated with people who convert from one religion to another or a person who should have found jesus but instead found mohammad.

Jesus called me to Him and gave me my salvation. Faith comes from God, by grace alone and not works.

 

[sealybobo]

Seriously... do you want it? I certainly don't.

“I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.” – Carl Sagan

Hi [MENTION=11281]sealybobo[/MENTION]

I see the "spirit passing on" like how Einstein, Jefferson, Mozart, and Shakespeare are still with us today "in spirit."

They are not conscious of themselves in the same way they were when they were alive in human bodies.

Their inspirations and aspirations live on through a higher level than that.

The part of them that was "aware they had influence" on future generations
took place in the past when they were living just like you and I do now, where
we can imagine being connected to forefathers before us, and posterity after us.

The part that lives on eternally is independent of time, and doesn't think in the same terms but is generally connected to all humanity collectively and is no longer bound individually.

What about your great great great great grandfather who neither you or anyone else on earth today remembers? What about the millions of people like him? Do their spirits live on?

I have to tell you, you guys are a riot. The more you try the more sure I am you are all fos.

 

[sealybobo]

Actually it is God who calls for the seekers to seek. Faith is from God and not a man can have faith without God giving it to him.

Then your parents and/or preachers are god(s) because they gave it to you, like a disease.

And I do realize ignorance is bliss. I also realize it must feel really good to know you have a god looking out for you and a heaven waiting for you. If I believed in hell I'd want to believe/hope/pray that god favors me too. What do the Jehovas say? Only how many people get into heaven? Do you believe that? Or the Mormons who say god told them your religion is bullshit. Do you believe that? Or the muslims who believe you're going to hell. Do you believe that? You believe what your society told you to believe. And if you go against your society and you are of a different faith like scientology, I am fascinated with people who convert from one religion to another or a person who should have found jesus but instead found mohammad.

Jesus called me to Him and gave me my salvation. Faith comes from God, by grace alone and not works.

How come he doesn't call on all those muslims in the middle east? Oh yea, they've been brainwashed from birth to believe a different fairy tale. I forgot.

Sorry buddy but Jesus didn't call on you, your church did. They need members and money bad.

The idea of faith comes from your church. Religion is a big business and they offer 2 things, a lie that you will live on after you die, and friends. Its like being in a fraternity. Remember in college you said you would never pay for friends? Well that's what you are doing when you put money in the collection plate or pay your annual dues or give 10% of your salary to the church. Brilliant really. Like George Carlin said, "greatest bullshit story ever".

 

[sealybobo]

Until I see proof of God, I can't say He exists. I don't need to prove you wrong, but you do need to prove you right if you want me to get on board with your religion.

You can't see the universe around you? What are you blind?

Are you saying that something had to create the universe and that nothing can come from nothing? Ok, then who created god? You can't have it both ways. If something MUST HAVE created the universe then something must have created god. Who's god's daddy?

It is fundamentally a ‘god of the gaps’ approach. Our current lack of understanding concerning the Universe’s origins does not automatically mean ‘god’ holds any explanatory value. Metaphysical and theistic speculation are not immediately justified or correct simply because we lack a comprehensive scientific model. Uncertainty is the most valid position and one can honestly say “We just don’t know yet”.

Didn't you also say you just can't believe there is no god?

Argument from incredulity / Lack of imagination and Argumentum ad Ignorantiam. Ignores and does not eliminate the fact that something can seem incredible or unlikely and still be true, or appear to be obvious or likely and yet still be false.

The world is the way it is. Reality does not bend to our personal whim and facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. Our personal belief in something does not automatically make it real or true and, conversely, our lack of understanding of a topic does not make it false.

Until we understand something we “do not know”. Positing a ‘god’ in place of admitting personal ignorance is an unfounded leap which demonstrates a fundamental lack of humility.

The existence and non-existence of a god are not equally probable outcomes. The majority of things we can possibly imagine do not exist. Thus, belief is not as valid a position as skepticism when dealing with unsupported or unfalsifiable claims. Agnostic atheism is the most rational position.

“It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.” – Carl Sagan

“God is an ever-receding pocket of ignorance that’s getting smaller and smaller as time goes on.”- Neil deGrasse Tyson

 

[sealybobo]

I see no objective proof of any God, much less the specific god in the form of Jehovah and/or Jesus. All there is to show such a god ever existed is a self-referential book. Sorry, but that's how it goes.

So by your definition of your version of god, you prove he does not exist.

I say god is the fabric of the universe. Prove I'm wrong.

My favorite atheist site can knock down every one of your arguments.

There is no evidence god doesn’t exist, so belief is as justified or as valid as non-belief.

Argument from ignorance.

A common attempt to shift the burden of proof or ‘make room’ for a god. Represents a type of false dichotomy that excludes the fact that there is insufficient investigation and the proposition has not yet been proven either true or false.

The failure to disprove the existence of something does not constitute proof of its existence.

Belief is not as valid a position as skepticism when dealing with unsupported or unfalsifiable claims because all such claims would need to be believed implicitly. Agnostic atheism is the most rational position.

Note: It is possible to gather evidence of absence and disprove specific claims about and definitions of a god.