Zone1 It's so weird that the left has demonized "traditional" values

I constantly hear leftists use "traditional" anything as some sort of attack, as if it's bad.

What is "traditional" in society? It's merely something that has proven to have worked and produced positive results. It's applying what we have learned from wisdom and experience.. and basically following the scientific method.

We ought to follow many things that have worked and produced good results. Traditional ideas are largely good ideas, because they nearly always cross cultures and withstand the test of time, even if rabid ideologues on the left hold hatred for it as they chase an unattainable utopia.

COMMUNISM:

Communism (from Latin communis, 'common, universal')[1][2] is a sociopolitical, philosophical, and economic ideology within the socialist movement,[1] whose goal is the creation of a communist society, a socioeconomic order centered around common ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange that allocates products to everyone in the society based on need.[3][4][5] A communist society would entail the absence of private property and social classes,[1] and ultimately money[6] and the state (or nation state).[7][8][9]

A stateless society, without socioeconomic classes or the need for money.


Private Property vs Personal Property

Private property is all property that is used to exploit other human beings for a profit. The commodification of people, in a "labor market", by a ruling class for privately owned profits.

Personal property is everything that you own, like your house, a plot of land, your vehicle/s, computers, gun collection..etc, not used to exploit others for a profit. In communism, personal property is legal, whereas private property is illegal.

Now in response to your capitalist claptrap rhetoric. It's better to "chase" or focus on eventually creating a utopia than a dystopia, which is what capitalism produces. Actual Marxists or "leftists" are scientific, not utopian.


The disingenuous, cheap trope and polemic of the right that we're "naive utopians" and hence impractical dolts, is part of the capitalist attempt to invalidate socialism (especially its goal, which is communism), by giving the working class the false impression that socializing mass production by democratizing it and making it publicly owned and operated, is unproductive, dysfunctional if not impossible.

Society supposedly will always need a state apparatus, socioeconomic classes, and money (The purpose of the state under capitalism is to secure the vested interests and private assets of the capitalist ruling class, at the great expense of the general public or working class). Production according to the defenders of capitalism, must always remain until the end of time, privately owned by a capitalist socioeconomic class and for the primary purpose of producing private profit for capitalists.

According to capitalists and their brainwashed working-class apologists like Mr. Friscus, the only way to organize labor is through an undemocratic system of human exploitation, where workers rent themselves to an owner-capitalist class or to what Adam Smith the father of capitalism identified as "masters", several hours daily.

Communists like myself respond to such skewed thinking by reminding people that humanity was communist for most of its history:


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And in the future, will become communist again by necessity.









Advanced production technology ensures that in the not-too-distant future, we will have to organize mass production strictly to meet our needs rather than for profit (needs can include what most consumers identify as "wants" as well, not just basic needs like food, shelter, clothing.etc.). Markets aren't eternal, nor are they necessary with advanced robotics and artificial intelligence. Production doesn't have to be built upon the backs of a human labor class under the heel of other human beings, who are a greedy plutocratic capitalist ruling class.

NO WAGES = NO MARKETS

Wages, profits, markets, employers and employees (exploiters & exploitees), the undemocratic, totalitarian workplace, the armies of lobbyists legally bribing politicians, all of this can be eliminated by socializing and democratizing mass production, turning the means of production (i.e. mines, factories, machinery, logistical infrastructure), into the commonwealth of the working-class (94% of the population - the public at large). Personal property (Your house, your plot of land, vehicles, computers, personal library, gun collection. etc), is protected and 100% legal, whereas private property (all property that is used to exploit other human beings for a profit) is eliminated.

What I just described above isn't "utopia" it's just necessary and better than both feudalism and capitalism. It's the more democratic and better successor of capitalism. The worst successor or inheritor of the capitalist system with all of its assets and resources is techno-feudalism. That's where the present capitalist ruling class continues to own the means of production (mines, factories, robotics, artificial intelligence..etc) and we the people (the working class - 94% of the population) are reduced to worthless, unproductive, serf-consumers through a government UBI (Universal Basic Income).




The UBI or UI (Universal Income), is another government bailout for capitalists. The government intervenes by creating an unproductive consumer, giving everyone a monthly income. It keeps capitalism on life-support for a few more decades, maybe even a century or two, while the capitalists figure out how to cull the worthless herd.

The capitalist ruling class will consign the masses to the compost heap and ironically, they (the capitalists), will become the communists of the future, living in their high-tech, well-secured gated communities. The capitalist class themselves, will unite their productive assets and produce everything they need, without employing a human working class or wage labor. The current ruling class under techno-feudalism, eventually become, voluntarily, democratic communists amongst themselves.


What's the ultimate goal of modern communism? Is it "Utopian" or just scientific?

Technology will eventually, maybe 120 years from now, allow the individual consumer to produce everything without assistance from anyone else (No state or community infrastructure needed). So the individual or let's say a family, will own all of the nanobots and APMMS (Atomic Precision Manufacturing Machines):



They will own their safe-to-use, micro-nuclear reactors and supper-efficient solar arrays and batteries, machines that draw water from the air..etc


People will live mostly in their mode of transportation (Luxury RVs, Yachts, Ships):

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And all relationships between adults will become 100% voluntary and without coercion. People will ban together and form colonies:

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If the elected administration of that colony becomes overbearing or oppressive, people just pack up and leave. The tyrant king is left alone, isolated, lonely, on his throne, staring into empty space, in an uninhabited colony. Essentially, the king-dictator of nothing and no one.

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A VERY LONELY TYRANT.

That's what advanced technology will do for humanity, it will liberate us from tyranny and allow each individual to own the means of production. We first begin our journey out of capitalist oppression, by collectively owning the means of production (i.e. democratic socialism which leads to voluntary, democratic, high-tech communism) but as technology advances we begin to own more of it individually until we can meet our personal needs without state or community infrastructure.

What I just described above isn't "utopia", it's a plan and destination, that is better than what capitalists are planning when they replace their human employees (wage-labor) with advanced automation and artificial intelligence. They will reduce 94% of the population (the working class) to a worthless serf-consumer receiving a government check, in order to preserve the wealth and power of the ruling class, while their masters cull them with poverty, street crime and drugs, incarceration, pandemics, war..etc. They will essentially consign the former working class that they once relied on to produce everything, to the compost heap. That's techno-feudalism, a dystopian nightmare, much worse than my supposed democratic communist "utopia".
 
I constantly hear leftists use "traditional" anything as some sort of attack, as if it's bad.

What is "traditional" in society? It's merely something that has proven to have worked and produced positive results. It's applying what we have learned from wisdom and experience.. and basically following the scientific method.

We ought to follow many things that have worked and produced good results. Traditional ideas are largely good ideas, because they nearly always cross cultures and withstand the test of time, even if rabid ideologues on the left hold hatred for it as they chase an unattainable utopia.
Key words in your post; "unattainable utopia"= FACT!
 
Slavery was a traditional value.
Segregation was a traditional value.
Wife-beating was a traditional value.
You made that up. All you guys pretty much ever do is constantly make things up and tell people how they think.

Slavery, for example was simply practiced all over the world by blacks and whites.

And for long period of history, we all lived in societies where most of the people were the same ethnicity.

Although the glorious Roman Empire was quite diverse. On the other hand, your political Democrat leaders openly have racist ideals, such as the idea that white homeless people are privileged. Now you don’t ever respond with substance to these points you’ll just make something up and go on some weird tangent. Have a good day buddy.
 
It's amazing that so many women are covered with tattoos or body piercings. I bet that 60% of the women I've banged had at least one tattoo.
 
You made that up. All you guys pretty much ever do is constantly make things up and tell people how they think.

Slavery, for example was simply practiced all over the world by blacks and whites.

And for long period of history, we all lived in societies where most of the people were the same ethnicity.

Although the glorious Roman Empire was quite diverse. On the other hand, your political Democrat leaders openly have racist ideals, such as the idea that white homeless people are privileged. Now you don’t ever respond with substance to these points you’ll just make something up and go on some weird tangent. Have a good day buddy.

I believe the point being made is that, just because it's traditional, doesn't make it good or conducive to a better life.
 
I constantly hear leftists use "traditional" anything as some sort of attack, as if it's bad.

What is "traditional" in society? It's merely something that has proven to have worked and produced positive results. It's applying what we have learned from wisdom and experience.. and basically following the scientific method.

We ought to follow many things that have worked and produced good results. Traditional ideas are largely good ideas, because they nearly always cross cultures and withstand the test of time, even if rabid ideologues on the left hold hatred for it as they chase an unattainable utopia.
Those intent on obtaining total control, totalitarian government, do so by controlling speech, language, message and completely disrupting the culture of the people meaning they destroy the history, traditional values (nuclear family, traditions, customs, societal norms, religious faith and practices, etc.)
 
I believe the point being made is that, just because it's traditional, doesn't make it good or conducive to a better life.
Also to your point just because something is new doesn’t make it good. There are terrible things going on in the modern era that in the past were rightfully condemned. Like this idea that a child can get a sex change operation. Or the idea that a white homeless person is privileged.


The point made by the poster I quoted was one of l trolling. For example, he talks about slavery, as if it was only a white man’s thing. The guy talks about segregation like it was only a white man’s thing. He’s talking about it from a Americans perspective. When those issues were all worldwide issues.


Also beating one’s wife is not a traditional thing to do. It’s a crime now and was then. Beating one’s wife in the 1950s was frowned upon and a man that did that was a disgrace. So the poster who brought that up is simply trolling and making things up.
 
This may be a Captain Obvious statement, but there are good traditions and there are bad traditions.

The wise thing to do is keep the good traditions and ditch the bad ones.

How do we determine which is which?

Bad traditions are man-made. Good traditions are in harmony with objective truth which comes from God.

As for the word 'progressive' ....I think that word has been completely butchered in today's upside-down world.

Here's what progressive truly means:

We all want progress, but if you're on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; in that case, the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive.

― C. S. Lewis
 
Also to your point just because something is new doesn’t make it good. There are terrible things going on in the modern era that in the past were rightfully condemned. Like this idea that a child can get a sex change operation. Or the idea that a white homeless person is privileged.


The point made by the poster I quoted was one of l trolling. For example, he talks about slavery, as if it was only a white man’s thing. The guy talks about segregation like it was only a white man’s thing. He’s talking about it from a Americans perspective. When those issues were all worldwide issues.


Also beating one’s wife is not a traditional thing to do. It’s a crime now and was then. Beating one’s wife in the 1950s was frowned upon and a man that did that was a disgrace. So the poster who brought that up is simply trolling and making things up.
I agree, just because a practice is new, doesn't make it good. Slavery has existed for millennia in many different cultures, it wasn't just practiced by Europeans. However, we can acknowledge that the institution of slavery is wrong, irrespective of who is practicing it unless those enslaved are paying restitution for something they've done (Prisoners of war for example). Systemic, generational slavery, is always wrong. Human beings shouldn't exploit and own other human beings.
 
You think cross dressers, trannies, degenerate homosexuality, open borders, lying to the American public, and voter fraud are traditional values? That's right, Trump doesn't support those.
Ok Cult Boi.

Trump absolutely supports Lying to the American Public, dear Lord, pull your head of that ugly ass of yours, and trump supports Voter Fraud.
 
This may be a Captain Obvious statement, but there are good traditions and there are bad traditions.

The wise thing to do is keep the good traditions and ditch the bad ones.

How do we determine which is which?

Bad traditions are man-made. Good traditions are in harmony with objective truth which comes from God.

As for the word 'progressive' ....I think that word has been completely butchered in today's upside-down world.

Here's what progressive truly means:

We all want progress, but if you're on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; in that case, the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive.

― C. S. Lewis
My ultimate objective truth is life and the self-evident patterns of thought and behavior that contribute to its survival and growth. All life-affirming patterns of thought and behavior.
 

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