Why I don't believe in God

[Boss]

Maybe there is something missing in people who need to religion in order to feel "complete." Not sure but an interesting theory, I think.

Well you are correct, many people need religion to feel complete. No argument there.

But Religion is NOT human spirituality. That is where you are very confused. You continue to tie them both together as one and they are not.

Chris, do you not ever experience LOVE? What do you think that is? Can you define it physically? Can you tell me how much amount of love you have for your mother or father? More importantly, can you provide me with any tangible evidence to prove your love exists?

 

[ChrisL]

Maybe there is something missing in people who need to religion in order to feel "complete." Not sure but an interesting theory, I think.

Well you are correct, many people need religion to feel complete. No argument there.

But Religion is NOT human spirituality. That is where you are very confused. You continue to tie them both together as one and they are not.

Chris, do you not ever experience LOVE? What do you think that is? Can you define it physically? Can you tell me how much amount of love you have for your mother or father? More importantly, can you provide me with any tangible evidence to prove your love exists?

It's an instinctual human emotion.

 

[Boss]

So anyway, I was thinking that a lot of people who are religious or who turn toward religion for comfort or guidance are usually people who have gone through some difficult times. So maybe it's not that there is something "missing" necessarily, but that they need something that a companion or just life itself cannot provide for them. This kind of "belief" gives them comfort and peace. I don't have a problem with that at all.

And again, I can't argue that some people cling to religion because it gives them peace of mind and comfort. Religions are inventions of man to explain his spiritual connection to something greater than self.

It seems obvious that the God who compels us to be nice to each other and show compassion is not the same God who tells someone to go out and kill all Jews and Infidels. Religions can contradict one another but they are inventions of man. Human spirituality is not an invention.

 

[Boss]

Maybe there is something missing in people who need to religion in order to feel "complete." Not sure but an interesting theory, I think.

Well you are correct, many people need religion to feel complete. No argument there.

But Religion is NOT human spirituality. That is where you are very confused. You continue to tie them both together as one and they are not.

Chris, do you not ever experience LOVE? What do you think that is? Can you define it physically? Can you tell me how much amount of love you have for your mother or father? More importantly, can you provide me with any tangible evidence to prove your love exists?

It's an instinctual human emotion.

Yes, our human spirituality IS instinctual.

 

[ChrisL]

Maybe there is something missing in people who need to religion in order to feel "complete." Not sure but an interesting theory, I think.

Well you are correct, many people need religion to feel complete. No argument there.

But Religion is NOT human spirituality. That is where you are very confused. You continue to tie them both together as one and they are not.

Chris, do you not ever experience LOVE? What do you think that is? Can you define it physically? Can you tell me how much amount of love you have for your mother or father? More importantly, can you provide me with any tangible evidence to prove your love exists?

It's an instinctual human emotion.

Yes, our human spirituality IS instinctual.

Well if it isn't related to a "god" then why don't you explain to me what 'spirituality" is?

 

[Boss]

Thankful to whom?

You don't have to be thankful to anyone. You can just be thankful that things are going well.

What do you mean??? Thankful to WHO? Yourself?

You can feel thankful for what you have. You don't have to be thankful towards anyone. Don't you understand that? Sad.

I don't understand what you mean by "thankful" when you won't tell me who you are thankful to. I have not said you can't FEEL thankful. What does that mean? Thankful to WHO? Nature? The Universe? Yourself? WHO are you thankful to?

I've already told you. I'm not going to waste my time. I feel thankful sometimes. That's all. It doesn't have to be directed towards anyone or anything in particular. I'm just a joyful and happy person most of the time.

Well I am joyful and happy too... I don't believe in a God who condemns people to hell or calls for me to go out and kill those who don't believe the way I do. Still, when I feel thankful, I know that I am ultimately thankful to "God" or in my case, Spiritual Nature. I know that the LOVE felt in my heart is from my spirit as a human. I don't need a deity to believe that.

 

[ChrisL]

You don't have to be thankful to anyone. You can just be thankful that things are going well.

What do you mean??? Thankful to WHO? Yourself?

You can feel thankful for what you have. You don't have to be thankful towards anyone. Don't you understand that? Sad.

I don't understand what you mean by "thankful" when you won't tell me who you are thankful to. I have not said you can't FEEL thankful. What does that mean? Thankful to WHO? Nature? The Universe? Yourself? WHO are you thankful to?

I've already told you. I'm not going to waste my time. I feel thankful sometimes. That's all. It doesn't have to be directed towards anyone or anything in particular. I'm just a joyful and happy person most of the time.

Well I am joyful and happy too... I don't believe in a God who condemns people to hell or calls for me to go out and kill those who don't believe the way I do. Still, when I feel thankful, I know that I am ultimately thankful to "God" or in my case, Spiritual Nature. I know that the LOVE felt in my heart is from my spirit as a human. I don't need a deity to believe that.

We are emotional creatures. Our brains are bigger and capable of more activity than any of the other animals, so we have much more intense feelings in most cases. We also have dopamine and other chemicals that are coursing through out bodies and pleasure receptors. Those are reasons why we feel joy, pain, sadness, etc.

 

[Boss]

Maybe there is something missing in people who need to religion in order to feel "complete." Not sure but an interesting theory, I think.

Well you are correct, many people need religion to feel complete. No argument there.

But Religion is NOT human spirituality. That is where you are very confused. You continue to tie them both together as one and they are not.

Chris, do you not ever experience LOVE? What do you think that is? Can you define it physically? Can you tell me how much amount of love you have for your mother or father? More importantly, can you provide me with any tangible evidence to prove your love exists?

It's an instinctual human emotion.

Yes, our human spirituality IS instinctual.

Well if it isn't related to a "god" then why don't you explain to me what 'spirituality" is?

I believe there is a mercurial force coursing through our universe which we cannot see or measure with physics. It is by all measures, something metaphysical in nature. It's not supernatural or imaginary, it's very real and very much a part of nature. As humans, we are connected to this force, we don't have a choice. We can only deny it or embrace it. I choose to embrace it and you choose to deny it. Others embrace it and build religions around it.

I believe this force moves in one direction, that being a positive direction toward goodness and away from evil. My objective mind tells me there is a reason behind that but I don't know know what it is. Could be, it's preparation for my spirit in an afterlife? I don't believe my spirit dies when my physical body dies... why would it? It's not physical. So where does it go and what happens to it when my physical body dies? I have no idea but I strongly suspect this inherent guidance toward goodness and away from evil may have something to do with it.

 

[ChrisL]

Maybe there is something missing in people who need to religion in order to feel "complete." Not sure but an interesting theory, I think.

Well you are correct, many people need religion to feel complete. No argument there.

But Religion is NOT human spirituality. That is where you are very confused. You continue to tie them both together as one and they are not.

Chris, do you not ever experience LOVE? What do you think that is? Can you define it physically? Can you tell me how much amount of love you have for your mother or father? More importantly, can you provide me with any tangible evidence to prove your love exists?

It's an instinctual human emotion.

Yes, our human spirituality IS instinctual.

Well if it isn't related to a "god" then why don't you explain to me what 'spirituality" is?

I believe there is a mercurial force coursing through our universe which we cannot see or measure with physics. It is by all measures, something metaphysical in nature. It's not supernatural or imaginary, it's very real and very much a part of nature. As humans, we are connected to this force, we don't have a choice. We can only deny it or embrace it. I choose to embrace it and you choose to deny it. Others embrace it and build religions around it.

I believe this force moves in one direction, that being a positive direction toward goodness and away from evil. My objective mind tells me there is a reason behind that but I don't know know what it is. Could be, it's preparation for my spirit in an afterlife? I don't believe my spirit dies when my physical body dies... why would it? It's not physical. So where does it go and what happens to it when my physical body dies? I have no idea but I strongly suspect this inherent guidance toward goodness and away from evil may have something to do with it.

I deny it because I don't feel it, see it, or have any kind of evidence at all besides some guy on the internet telling me it's so. Lol. I don't "embrace" such things. Sorry. That's just not who I am.

I've had some traumatic experiences with loss myself. I manage to do just fine without any religious beliefs of an afterlife. I just accept things the way they are.

 

[Boss]

What do you mean??? Thankful to WHO? Yourself?

You can feel thankful for what you have. You don't have to be thankful towards anyone. Don't you understand that? Sad.

I don't understand what you mean by "thankful" when you won't tell me who you are thankful to. I have not said you can't FEEL thankful. What does that mean? Thankful to WHO? Nature? The Universe? Yourself? WHO are you thankful to?

I've already told you. I'm not going to waste my time. I feel thankful sometimes. That's all. It doesn't have to be directed towards anyone or anything in particular. I'm just a joyful and happy person most of the time.

Well I am joyful and happy too... I don't believe in a God who condemns people to hell or calls for me to go out and kill those who don't believe the way I do. Still, when I feel thankful, I know that I am ultimately thankful to "God" or in my case, Spiritual Nature. I know that the LOVE felt in my heart is from my spirit as a human. I don't need a deity to believe that.

We are emotional creatures. Our brains are bigger and capable of more activity than any of the other animals, so we have much more intense feelings in most cases. We also have dopamine and other chemicals that are coursing through out bodies and pleasure receptors. Those are reasons why we feel joy, pain, sadness, etc.

Nonsense. Many animals have larger brains. In fact, science tells us that size of the brain is not indicative of capability. We are WAY behind many species in terms of what we are capable of feeling. Dogs can tell when there is going to be an earthquake or tornado. They can sense when their human is going to have an epileptic seizure. Other animals experience joy, pain, sadness, etc. These are not unique to humans.

Isn't it curious that humans seem to be the only species of life who are capable of technology and advancement and also the only species who worship something greater than self? I don't think it's coincidental. Our human spirituality is the source of human inspiration.

 

[ChrisL]

You can feel thankful for what you have. You don't have to be thankful towards anyone. Don't you understand that? Sad.

I don't understand what you mean by "thankful" when you won't tell me who you are thankful to. I have not said you can't FEEL thankful. What does that mean? Thankful to WHO? Nature? The Universe? Yourself? WHO are you thankful to?

I've already told you. I'm not going to waste my time. I feel thankful sometimes. That's all. It doesn't have to be directed towards anyone or anything in particular. I'm just a joyful and happy person most of the time.

Well I am joyful and happy too... I don't believe in a God who condemns people to hell or calls for me to go out and kill those who don't believe the way I do. Still, when I feel thankful, I know that I am ultimately thankful to "God" or in my case, Spiritual Nature. I know that the LOVE felt in my heart is from my spirit as a human. I don't need a deity to believe that.

We are emotional creatures. Our brains are bigger and capable of more activity than any of the other animals, so we have much more intense feelings in most cases. We also have dopamine and other chemicals that are coursing through out bodies and pleasure receptors. Those are reasons why we feel joy, pain, sadness, etc.

Nonsense. Many animals have larger brains. In fact, science tells us that size of the brain is not indicative of capability. We are WAY behind many species in terms of what we are capable of feeling. Dogs can tell when there is going to be an earthquake or tornado. They can sense when their human is going to have an epileptic seizure. Other animals experience joy, pain, sadness, etc. These are not unique to humans.

Isn't it curious that humans seem to be the only species of life who are capable of technology and advancement and also the only species who worship something greater than self? I don't think it's coincidental. Our human spirituality is the source of human inspiration.

Oh good grief, I'm done here. You are just ridiculous.

 

[Boss]

Well you are correct, many people need religion to feel complete. No argument there.

But Religion is NOT human spirituality. That is where you are very confused. You continue to tie them both together as one and they are not.

Chris, do you not ever experience LOVE? What do you think that is? Can you define it physically? Can you tell me how much amount of love you have for your mother or father? More importantly, can you provide me with any tangible evidence to prove your love exists?

It's an instinctual human emotion.

Yes, our human spirituality IS instinctual.

Well if it isn't related to a "god" then why don't you explain to me what 'spirituality" is?

I believe there is a mercurial force coursing through our universe which we cannot see or measure with physics. It is by all measures, something metaphysical in nature. It's not supernatural or imaginary, it's very real and very much a part of nature. As humans, we are connected to this force, we don't have a choice. We can only deny it or embrace it. I choose to embrace it and you choose to deny it. Others embrace it and build religions around it.

I believe this force moves in one direction, that being a positive direction toward goodness and away from evil. My objective mind tells me there is a reason behind that but I don't know know what it is. Could be, it's preparation for my spirit in an afterlife? I don't believe my spirit dies when my physical body dies... why would it? It's not physical. So where does it go and what happens to it when my physical body dies? I have no idea but I strongly suspect this inherent guidance toward goodness and away from evil may have something to do with it.

I deny it because I don't feel it, see it, or have any kind of evidence at all besides some guy on the internet telling me it's so. Lol. I don't "embrace" such things. Sorry. That's just not who I am.

I've had some traumatic experiences with loss myself. I manage to do just fine without any religious beliefs of an afterlife. I just accept things the way they are.

Again... do you see or have any evidence of love? There are things we cannot see. Humans are very limited creatures. We have five major senses and we're not the masters of any of them. There are things that see better, hear better, smell better and have a better sense of taste and touch. 96% of our universe is beyond our detection... we know it exists we can't interact with it.

Yep... people DO manage just fine without religion... I am one of them!

 

[Boss]

Oh good grief, I'm done here. You are just ridiculous.

How have I been ridiculous? By not accepting your premise that nothing greater than self exists?

 

[anotherlife]

When I'm destroyed, I usually end up in my bed. Usually.

And what does he mean by destroyed? Does he mean dead?

That's what I'm wondering too. I've never heard anyone use that term in such a context before.

It's a scare tactic. He's trying to put the fear of God in us.

But that's not how convincing someone something is true should work. You should be able to rationally be able to convince me your God exists without resorting to scare me with the fear of hell or that not believing will prevent you from going to heaven.

This tactic might work on them but not me. If you can't prove your God is real fuck you and your fake ass God.

I would have been a fear factor champion because apparently fear is not a factor for me

It is amazing what becomes of a post when you lose it. Looks like this time it gained fear tactics. But no, the question is not moral or morality. The question is who if not God can give place to everything destroyed. It is also possible to argue that existence stops at the point of destruction. However in this case, does existence come out of nothing at the point of creation? And what is the point of creation if we assume no God?

What is our purpose? Maybe there is no purpose? What was the purpose of dinosaurs or the trilobites who ruled the planet before them? If we destroy ourselves and cockroaches rule the planet after we are gone, what is their purpose?

And when our solar system dies, what was the purpose?

And what about your great x 1000 grandparents?

I will be working a soup kitchen tomorrow. I'm making my life have purpose.

I don't really understand the purpose aspect of it. I think the loss aspect of it is more interesting. When someone kills you, you go off the grid. Based on your example, the visitors eating at the soup kitchen are one step before the next stage of drifting off the grid. I think the important part is that the drift accelerates more when we want to slow it down. So it does depend on us and it does have a deterministic pattern. Moreover we are not only at the receiving end of it but the very cause of it too. So the question remains valid, what/who runs the pattern?

I think some people have a difficult time with the fact that things happen randomly to random people. It is not a punishment from a god or gods. Good people, bad people, religious people, non-religious people. It really doesn't seem to matter. They have a hard time accepting that there may be no "higher purpose" and that perhaps nothing exists after death. I think fear of the unknown and the urge to try and explain things is another factor on why religion exists. Besides different gods and small differences in different religious beliefs throughout time, they all seem to be based on pretty much the same things. Man trying to explain things he doesn't understand and fears.

I think the problem is that all the religions and syfy stories don't eliminate the question, even if we decide that they are all wrong. This is not random, and keeps being a problem. Our process towards and through the destruction of neighbors and ourselves requires analysis, because it appears that that is what makes it bad both before and during the destruction. Some mystery, like a homework, where you get a real beating if not doing it.

 

[ChrisL]

And what does he mean by destroyed? Does he mean dead?

That's what I'm wondering too. I've never heard anyone use that term in such a context before.

It's a scare tactic. He's trying to put the fear of God in us.

But that's not how convincing someone something is true should work. You should be able to rationally be able to convince me your God exists without resorting to scare me with the fear of hell or that not believing will prevent you from going to heaven.

This tactic might work on them but not me. If you can't prove your God is real fuck you and your fake ass God.

I would have been a fear factor champion because apparently fear is not a factor for me

It is amazing what becomes of a post when you lose it. Looks like this time it gained fear tactics. But no, the question is not moral or morality. The question is who if not God can give place to everything destroyed. It is also possible to argue that existence stops at the point of destruction. However in this case, does existence come out of nothing at the point of creation? And what is the point of creation if we assume no God?

What is our purpose? Maybe there is no purpose? What was the purpose of dinosaurs or the trilobites who ruled the planet before them? If we destroy ourselves and cockroaches rule the planet after we are gone, what is their purpose?

And when our solar system dies, what was the purpose?

And what about your great x 1000 grandparents?

I will be working a soup kitchen tomorrow. I'm making my life have purpose.

I don't really understand the purpose aspect of it. I think the loss aspect of it is more interesting. When someone kills you, you go off the grid. Based on your example, the visitors eating at the soup kitchen are one step before the next stage of drifting off the grid. I think the important part is that the drift accelerates more when we want to slow it down. So it does depend on us and it does have a deterministic pattern. Moreover we are not only at the receiving end of it but the very cause of it too. So the question remains valid, what/who runs the pattern?

I think some people have a difficult time with the fact that things happen randomly to random people. It is not a punishment from a god or gods. Good people, bad people, religious people, non-religious people. It really doesn't seem to matter. They have a hard time accepting that there may be no "higher purpose" and that perhaps nothing exists after death. I think fear of the unknown and the urge to try and explain things is another factor on why religion exists. Besides different gods and small differences in different religious beliefs throughout time, they all seem to be based on pretty much the same things. Man trying to explain things he doesn't understand and fears.

I think the problem is that all the religions and syfy stories don't eliminate the question, even if we decide that they are all wrong. This is not random, and keeps being a problem. Our process towards and through the destruction of neighbors and ourselves requires analysis, because it appears that that is what makes it bad both before and during the destruction. Some mystery, like a homework, where you get a real beating if not doing it.

What question is that? If there is a god or a heaven/hell?

 

[ChrisL]

Oh good grief, I'm done here. You are just ridiculous.

How have I been ridiculous? By not accepting your premise that nothing greater than self exists?

You are annoying me with your insistence that there is with nothing but "feelings" to back you up.

 

[ChrisL]

Oh good grief, I'm done here. You are just ridiculous.

How have I been ridiculous? By not accepting your premise that nothing greater than self exists?

I'm sorry for saying that. You have been quite civil, and I apologize for that "ridiculous" comment. It is your insistence that there is something more to these "feelings" than them simply just being "feelings" that I find to be just a little bit aggravating.

 

[Boss]

Oh good grief, I'm done here. You are just ridiculous.

How have I been ridiculous? By not accepting your premise that nothing greater than self exists?

You are annoying me with your insistence that there is with nothing but "feelings" to back you up.

But there are lots of things other than feelings to back me up. I used love as an example because I figure most people can relate to what love is. Maybe I am wrong? But you've yet to define what love is or how you can measure it physically.

Signs of human spirituality are present in every human civilization we've ever unearthed. Literally billions and billions of people have given their testimonials to the power of something greater than self. Some of their accounts are quite remarkable and impressive. I can't believe they are ALL full of shit.

 

[ChrisL]

Oh good grief, I'm done here. You are just ridiculous.

How have I been ridiculous? By not accepting your premise that nothing greater than self exists?

You are annoying me with your insistence that there is with nothing but "feelings" to back you up.

But there are lots of things other than feelings to back me up. I used love as an example because I figure most people can relate to what love is. Maybe I am wrong? But you've yet to define what love is or how you can measure it physically.

Signs of human spirituality are present in every human civilization we've ever unearthed. Literally billions and billions of people have given their testimonials to the power of something greater than self. Some of their accounts are quite remarkable and impressive. I can't believe they are ALL full of shit.

Love is an emotion due to dopamine and pleasure receptors in your brain.

 

[Boss]

Oh good grief, I'm done here. You are just ridiculous.

How have I been ridiculous? By not accepting your premise that nothing greater than self exists?

I'm sorry for saying that. You have been quite civil, and I apologize for that "ridiculous" comment. It is your insistence that there is something more to these "feelings" than them simply just being "feelings" that I find to be just a little bit aggravating.

I agree that it can seem very aggravating when someone presents an argument you can't defeat or when your arguments are defeated by fact of reality. You say you feel "thankful" but you can't explain this feeling in any fundamental way. You say you feel "love" but you can't explain what causes the feeling or what quantifies it physically. That must be very frustrating for you, I totally get that.

I've just been trying to get you to understand that there is something greater than self and it doesn't need to be defined by a religious belief or deity. It's inherent human nature and what makes us human. Can you deny that you have an inner spirit of self? The essence of who you are as a human being? If you can, I think you're in complete denial of reality. We all have it whether we believe in a God or not... it's part of who we are.