Why is it so hard to have a civil discussion in the Israel/Palestine forum?

[toastman]

But I don't see what that has to do with what I posted earlier.

 

[Roudy]

I guess it goes without saying this is the most volatile forum at USMB? I don't think I've seen one thread where a shouting match didn't occur at some point. There is so much vitriol, one would think you'd have an "Enter at your own risk" sign on the first webpage before entering. I'm wondering why a lack of civility is so prevalent? And yes, I know, I'm one of the biggest violators of that. If there was a "Biggest Prick in the Forum" contest, I would probably make the meddle round.

If you were going to name whom (or what) is responsible for the consistently deteriorating discord, who (or what) would it be?

the Zionists?
the anti-Zionists?
the Americans?
the Israeli's?
the Muslims?
the Jews?
the pro-Palestine crowd?
the pro-Israeli crowd?
human nature?
the seriousness of the topics being discussed?​

If you had to put your finger on one thing that is preventing issues in this forum from being discussed in a civil, respectful manner, without all the emotional outbursts and name-calling, what would it be?

​

I put my finger on people like you. Totally ignorant Jew haters who have nothing better to do with their time, but bait Jews.

 

[SAYIT]

toastman, et al,

I cannot help but think that behind many of the incidents, there is a concerted effort to instigate an anti-Israeli event for media exploitation.

It's not about blaming the victim. It's about asking the question of why do Palestinians continue to throw rocks, Molotov cocktails etc... At soldiers when they know they can get hurt?
People who are not brainwashed know that Palestinians are encouraged to do so in order to provoke a response from the IDF for their propaganda war, swhich BTW they are winning.

v/r
R

Even if that were the case, the pertinent question is why is the IDF so monumentaly stupid as to fall for it every time?

Perhaps it not stupidity but rather a conscious decision to protect Israeli lives at the cost of some media points. On the other hand, Hamas seems more than happy to exchange the lives of those hapless "refugees" for a few media points.
So who, exactly, is acting stupidly and what kind of moron would support Hamas?

 

[Humanity]

toastman, et al,

I cannot help but think that behind many of the incidents, there is a concerted effort to instigate an anti-Israeli event for media exploitation.

It's not about blaming the victim. It's about asking the question of why do Palestinians continue to throw rocks, Molotov cocktails etc... At soldiers when they know they can get hurt?
People who are not brainwashed know that Palestinians are encouraged to do so in order to provoke a response from the IDF for their propaganda war, swhich BTW they are winning.

v/r
R

Even if that were the case, the pertinent question is why is the IDF so monumentaly stupid as to fall for it every time?

Perhaps it not stupidity but rather a conscious decision to protect Israeli lives at the cost of some media points. On the other hand, Hamas seems more than happy to exchange the lives of those hapless "refugees" for a few media points.
So who, exactly, is acting stupidly and what kind of moron would support Hamas?

I would hope that there isn't one single "moron" on this forum who would ever consider supporting Hamas as a viable political party!

 

[SAYIT]

toastman, et al,

I cannot help but think that behind many of the incidents, there is a concerted effort to instigate an anti-Israeli event for media exploitation.

It's not about blaming the victim. It's about asking the question of why do Palestinians continue to throw rocks, Molotov cocktails etc... At soldiers when they know they can get hurt?
People who are not brainwashed know that Palestinians are encouraged to do so in order to provoke a response from the IDF for their propaganda war, swhich BTW they are winning.

v/r
R

Even if that were the case, the pertinent question is why is the IDF so monumentaly stupid as to fall for it every time?

Perhaps it not stupidity but rather a conscious decision to protect Israeli lives at the cost of some media points. On the other hand, Hamas seems more than happy to exchange the lives of those hapless "refugees" for a few media points.
So who, exactly, is acting stupidly and what kind of moron would support Hamas?

I would hope that there isn't one single "moron" on this forum who would ever consider supporting Hamas as a viable political party!

Ah, but there's more than one and there's a boatload of 'em in Gaza which is, after all, what we are talking about.

 

[Billo_Really]

Let me give you a hint.

It usually starts with people abusing the f- u- c- k- buttons.

It's a man's birthright to abuse buttons like that.

As long as its not done in front of a lady.

 

[Billo_Really]

As soon as they come out with Zionists, baby killers, war crimes, land thefts, illegal settlements and invasion you can take it as a given that they are not offering legitimate, appropriate and factual criticism just NAZI WHITE SUPREMACIST ANTI SEMITIC JEW HATRED

Say something nice!

I command you!

 

[Humanity]

toastman, et al,

I cannot help but think that behind many of the incidents, there is a concerted effort to instigate an anti-Israeli event for media exploitation.

It's not about blaming the victim. It's about asking the question of why do Palestinians continue to throw rocks, Molotov cocktails etc... At soldiers when they know they can get hurt?
People who are not brainwashed know that Palestinians are encouraged to do so in order to provoke a response from the IDF for their propaganda war, swhich BTW they are winning.

v/r
R

Even if that were the case, the pertinent question is why is the IDF so monumentaly stupid as to fall for it every time?

Perhaps it not stupidity but rather a conscious decision to protect Israeli lives at the cost of some media points. On the other hand, Hamas seems more than happy to exchange the lives of those hapless "refugees" for a few media points.
So who, exactly, is acting stupidly and what kind of moron would support Hamas?

I would hope that there isn't one single "moron" on this forum who would ever consider supporting Hamas as a viable political party!

Ah, but there's more than one and there's a boatload of 'em in Gaza which is, after all, what we are talking about.

And there's a boatload of extremists in Israel... It's what we are talking about isn't it?

You see, there will always be two sides, "morons" or not, who will, over time, actually prove themselves "morons"...

What kind of "moron" would support Zionism?

Can you see the difference?

Politics vs Religion....

 

[Billo_Really]

On the assumption this is a serious question, my serious answer would have to be, the Forum Moderators and staff. Ultimately they bear the responsibility as to the level of invective, name calling, uncivil behaviour, etc. that takes place on their board. They have it within their power to prevent behaviour they consider unsuitable so if people are allowed to get away with being rude and uncivil, it's human nature to respond in kind; there are no saints here. I have noticed there is a Clean Debate Forum on this board but it's unclear whether or not the Israel-Palestine question can be discussed there, but if you're willing to give it a go, I won't mind joining you or anyone else willing to have a serious discussion on this topic, there.

I'd say they have the authority to prevent it, but the only way someone has power over you, is if you give it to them. Moderators can say to me, "Don't drop the f-bomb, or you're gonna get it!" But it's "my" decision on whether that f-bomb gets dropped (or not). The point is, I believe, for the most part, everyone is responsible for everything that happens in their life. The level (or amount) of responsibility, depends on the situation or issue.

In regards to the OP, each one of us is responsible for the level of vitriol we contribute to the conversation, or the level of vitriol we keep out of the conversation. Take RoccoR and Tinnmore, for example. Two people, one I disagree with a lot and the other I agree with all the time, one pro-Israeli, the other pro-Palestinian, both have a lot to say and are not shy in saying it. But both are also beacons of civility. I've never seen Tinny go off; and I can only remember RoccoR going off once, but that was mostly my fault for pushing his buttons hard, when I was in a particularly (alcohol enhanced) foul mood.

Aside from that one time, both posters are showing how its done. They're showing we can still get our point across (without selling out our values) and say it without all the complimentary hostility. Whether we choose to do the same, is our call, not the moderators.

 

[member]

I think the primary reason is the Palestinian supporters demand borders and Israeli concessions that the Israeli's KNOW will lead to their extermination. It's hard to be reasonable with those who are unreasonable.

Personally, the border thing: palestinians ARE.......... and ASSOCIATED with evil, vicious, barbaric terrorists.




Who looks forward to ANY of "them" crossing over from where ever they're crossing over from....


They can't be trusted. CROWDS of palestinians CROSSING over is taking a big risk.
they're so brainwashed (blowing yourself up). they're stupid terrorists.

 

[SAYIT]

toastman, et al,

I cannot help but think that behind many of the incidents, there is a concerted effort to instigate an anti-Israeli event for media exploitation.

v/r
R

Even if that were the case, the pertinent question is why is the IDF so monumentaly stupid as to fall for it every time?

Perhaps it not stupidity but rather a conscious decision to protect Israeli lives at the cost of some media points. On the other hand, Hamas seems more than happy to exchange the lives of those hapless "refugees" for a few media points.
So who, exactly, is acting stupidly and what kind of moron would support Hamas?

I would hope that there isn't one single "moron" on this forum who would ever consider supporting Hamas as a viable political party!

Ah, but there's more than one and there's a boatload of 'em in Gaza which is, after all, what we are talking about.

And there's a boatload of extremists in Israel... It's what we are talking about isn't it?
You see, there will always be two sides, "morons" or not, who will, over time, actually prove themselves "morons"...
What kind of "moron" would support Zionism?
Can you see the difference?
Politics vs Religion....

You claimed it was idiotic of the IDF to take Hamas's bait and I responded it may well be a conscious choice to protect Israeli lives and screw the media points. Certainly even a half-wit can see the value in making such a choice ... saving lives. On the other hand Hamas eagerly sacrifices Palestinian lives in exchange for some media points. I call that inhumane, even child abuse but then you have the right to prefer that.

 

[RoccoR]

et al,

“I know not how to defeat others, I only know how to win over myself. The real and most dangerous opponents we face in life are fear, anger, confusion, doubt and despair. If we overcome those enemies who attack from within, we can attain a sure victory over any attack from without.”
...........................................................................................................― Chris Bradford, The Way of the Warrior

Most Respectfully,
R​

 

[member]

toastman, et al,

I cannot help but think that behind many of the incidents, there is a concerted effort to instigate an anti-Israeli event for media exploitation.

It's not about blaming the victim. It's about asking the question of why do Palestinians continue to throw rocks, Molotov cocktails etc... At soldiers when they know they can get hurt?
People who are not brainwashed know that Palestinians are encouraged to do so in order to provoke a response from the IDF for their propaganda war, swhich BTW they are winning.

v/r
R

Even if that were the case, the pertinent question is why is the IDF so monumentaly stupid as to fall for it every time?

Perhaps it not stupidity but rather a conscious decision to protect Israeli lives at the cost of some media points. On the other hand, Hamas seems more than happy to exchange the lives of those hapless "refugees" for a few media points.
So who, exactly, is acting stupidly and what kind of moron would support Hamas?

I would hope that there isn't one single "moron" on this forum who would ever consider supporting Hamas as a viable political party!

"...I would hope that there isn't one single "moron" on this forum who would ever consider supporting Hamas as a viable political party!..."


have you been missing what's-his-namez... posts ?

"...consider supporting Hamas as a viable political party!..."

he's always like:

GIMMIE an "H" ~ GIMMIE an "A" .............

 

[Dot Com]

"Why is it so hard to have a civil discussion in the Israel/Palestine forum?"

Among many other reasons, because those who offer legitimate, appropriate, and factual criticism of Israel are immediately branded 'anti-Semites.'

^ that

blanket insults are the norm if one dares question the current israeli admins policies.

 

[RoccoR]

Dot Com, C_Clayton_Jones, et al,

"Branding" (as you artistically term it) is a frustration measure.

"Why is it so hard to have a civil discussion in the Israel/Palestine forum?"

Among many other reasons, because those who offer legitimate, appropriate, and factual criticism of Israel are immediately branded 'anti-Semites.'

^ that

blanket insults are the norm if one dares question the current israeli admins policies.

(COMMENT)

Anti-Semitism (prejudice or projection of hatred and discrimination against Jews as an ethnic or religious group) --- often manifests itself as a behavior of opposing Israeli policies, views, or actions that opposes those activities that threaten Israeli sovereignty and security. It is an emotionally charged discussion that requires a bit of personal diplomacy.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Humanity]

toastman, et al,

I cannot help but think that behind many of the incidents, there is a concerted effort to instigate an anti-Israeli event for media exploitation.

It's not about blaming the victim. It's about asking the question of why do Palestinians continue to throw rocks, Molotov cocktails etc... At soldiers when they know they can get hurt?
People who are not brainwashed know that Palestinians are encouraged to do so in order to provoke a response from the IDF for their propaganda war, swhich BTW they are winning.

v/r
R

Even if that were the case, the pertinent question is why is the IDF so monumentaly stupid as to fall for it every time?

Perhaps it not stupidity but rather a conscious decision to protect Israeli lives at the cost of some media points. On the other hand, Hamas seems more than happy to exchange the lives of those hapless "refugees" for a few media points.
So who, exactly, is acting stupidly and what kind of moron would support Hamas?

I would hope that there isn't one single "moron" on this forum who would ever consider supporting Hamas as a viable political party!

"...I would hope that there isn't one single "moron" on this forum who would ever consider supporting Hamas as a viable political party!..."


have you been missing what's-his-namez... posts ?

"...consider supporting Hamas as a viable political party!..."

he's always like:

GIMMIE an "H" ~ GIMMIE an "A" .............

Want to show me a single post where I have shown ANY support for Hamas?

Just like all the other morons who FAIL to make their point, you won't find one!

Please though, go ahead, try and find one... I look forward to reading it!

Of course, there won't be one and you will end up looking like your forum name...

Member - n. A penis

 

[Indofred]

It's always the Zionists - they're violent bastards.

 

[Penelope]

I always get confused, one minute the Zionist in Israel blame it on the Pals, then the next thread its the PLO, then it Hamas, etc.

Lets admit it Zionist, you want them all gone and to have a Jewish state, which you might as well be Saudi Arabia then, racist, and here you are , living in every other country, but yet you want a Jewish state, its sickening , how racist you are and how you yell anti-emetic every time someone says anything you don't like.

the Jews have got to quit blaming others for their behaviors, as they have been doing it for centuries, you have never got along with anyone, in Russia you tried to overtake the gov. and did, in Germany you tried and failed, and now in Israel you want all the land.

 

[Mindful]

I always get confused, one minute the Zionist in Israel blame it on the Pals, then the next thread its the PLO, then it Hamas, etc.

Lets admit it Zionist, you want them all gone and to have a Jewish state, which you might as well be Saudi Arabia then, racist, and here you are , living in every other country, but yet you want a Jewish state, its sickening , how racist you are and how you yell anti-emetic every time someone says anything you don't like.

the Jews have got to quit blaming others for their behaviors, as they have been doing it for centuries, you have never got along with anyone, in Russia you tried to overtake the gov. and did, in Germany you tried and failed, and now in Israel you want all the land.

Huh? Who's "you"?

 

[Penelope]

I always get confused, one minute the Zionist in Israel blame it on the Pals, then the next thread its the PLO, then it Hamas, etc.

Lets admit it Zionist, you want them all gone and to have a Jewish state, which you might as well be Saudi Arabia then, racist, and here you are , living in every other country, but yet you want a Jewish state, its sickening , how racist you are and how you yell anti-emetic every time someone says anything you don't like.

the Jews have got to quit blaming others for their behaviors, as they have been doing it for centuries, you have never got along with anyone, in Russia you tried to overtake the gov. and did, in Germany you tried and failed, and now in Israel you want all the land.

Huh? Who's "you"?

You are the Zionist (jews and non jews ) who want an all Jewish State.