Why left/right thinking is outdated

[Saigon]

For the last few years, I've increasingly found the traditional left/right dichotomy pointless and limiting. It's a mental straightjacket.

Worse still, it encourages a kind of 'Go Team!' mentality, in which blind loyalty supercedes individual thinking and makes holding a range of varied opinions impossible. We see that so much on this board - posters blindly supporting and defending one politician, while condemning others for doing the same thing.

What I mean by this is that in some areas, my beliefs are very right wing. I believe in the death penalty, I support nuclear energy, I own a small business and support pro-business economic policies. On the other hand, I believe renewable energy is inevitable, I want strong environmental protection, believe in universal healthcare, a strong public education sector and higher taxes for the super rich. In other areas, I tend to disagree with most politicians and support legalised euthanasia and legalised prostitution.

Hence, for me politics can never be about supporting one party or some candidate. Each election I look at the candidates and try and find someone whose policies I can live with. I don't think I have ever found a candidate or party I could back to the hilt.

My question is - in today's complex world - is the very idea of the left/right spectrum out of date?

Should parties themselves try to establish a range of policies that are not based on left/right traditions, but which are based around different beliefs or solutions entirely?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Dunno, sounds like an Opera episode where the guests talk about their confusion with their sexuality.

I simply can not think of one single thing the left believes in that I agree with.
For instance, I believe if queers want to marry so be it. I don't however think they need any sort of legislation that singles them out as a group for protection.
I think I have some middle of the road opinions but none that venture into the galaxy of the left.

The core principles of the right are intact it's just that no one follows them.

Money has corrupted our system beyond repair imo.

 

[Kosh]

My question is - in today's complex world - is the very idea of the left/right spectrum out of date?

Nope! As that is what defines our political parties. If both parties believed in the same thing would we really need two parties?

Then again thinking the two parties on the federal level as being different is also an illusion as well. Neither party cares about the people, just the power and the money..

 

[The Irish Ram]

I think a premeditated scheme to pit one against the other has been put into place so that we will be to busy to notice the global agenda that is replacing America's best interests. We are a house divided for a reason.

 

[Tom Sweetnam]

Good luck with that.

 

[westwall]

Anyone who adheres strictly to a single party and blindly follows that party's edicts is an extremist. Extremists are scary people who should not be allowed to serve in a Public office.

 

[Billy000]

For the last few years, I've increasingly found the traditional left/right dichotomy pointless and limiting. It's a mental straightjacket.

Worse still, it encourages a kind of 'Go Team!' mentality, in which blind loyalty supercedes individual thinking and makes holding a range of varied opinions impossible. We see that so much on this board - posters blindly supporting and defending one politician, while condemning others for doing the same thing.

What I mean by this is that in some areas, my beliefs are very right wing. I believe in the death penalty, I support nuclear energy, I own a small business and support pro-business economic policies. On the other hand, I believe renewable energy is inevitable, I want strong environmental protection, believe in universal healthcare, a strong public education sector and higher taxes for the super rich. In other areas, I tend to disagree with most politicians and support legalised euthanasia and legalised prostitution.

Hence, for me politics can never be about supporting one party or some candidate. Each election I look at the candidates and try and find someone whose policies I can live with. I don't think I have ever found a candidate or party I could back to the hilt.

My question is - in today's complex world - is the very idea of the left/right spectrum out of date?

Should parties themselves try to establish a range of policies that are not based on left/right traditions, but which are based around different beliefs or solutions entirely?

I admire your politics but I disagree the dichotomy is out of date. This country has become very polarized. If you mean it shouldn't be, then yes, I definitely agree.

However, to he frank. Based on what you said, I would call you a moderate liberal. A centrist would not be accurate. You lean left but not far left Which is good.

 

[Billy000]

Anyone who adheres strictly to a single party and blindly follows that party's edicts is an extremist. Extremists are scary people who should not be allowed to serve in a Public office.

I have never once seen you give any support to any liberal policies.

 

[Saigon]

Nope! As that is what defines our political parties. If both parties believed in the same thing would we really need two parties?

Any REAL democracy has 10 or 12 parties.

That still doesn't mean that there is any one party who represent everything that I would prefer. Isn't it amazing that you have only two parties, and yet one of those two represents anything and everything that you think?

 

[Saigon]

I simply can not think of one single thing the left believes in that I agree with.
.

I think that is really sad, actually.

And I'd say exactly the same thing to any left winger who said the same about the right wing. It just sounds to me like your mind is made up before you even hear the policy.

 

[westwall]

Anyone who adheres strictly to a single party and blindly follows that party's edicts is an extremist. Extremists are scary people who should not be allowed to serve in a Public office.

I have never once seen you give any support to any liberal policies.

Then you're blind as well as stupid. As I have stated MANY TIMES, I support gay marriage, decriminalization of all drugs, I am PRO choice, anti multi national corporations etc. etc. etc. The one thing that differentiates me from progressives is I want the people to be allowed to own whatever firearms they wish because progressive governments are the most vile ever created by man, responsible for more deaths in 100 years, than all the religious murders in 2000 years. The PEOPLE MUST have the means to defend themselves from an oppressive government.

And, as a scientist I am skeptical of the ridiculous, unfounded claims of the enviro extremists. In all other ways I am extremely liberal.

 

[Billy000]

Anyone who adheres strictly to a single party and blindly follows that party's edicts is an extremist. Extremists are scary people who should not be allowed to serve in a Public office.

I have never once seen you give any support to any liberal policies.

Then you're blind as well as stupid. As I have stated MANY TIMES, I support gay marriage, decriminalization of all drugs, I am PRO choice, anti multi national corporations etc. etc. etc. The one thing that differentiates me from progressives is I want the people to be allowed to own whatever firearms they wish because progressive governments are the most vile ever created by man, responsible for more deaths in 100 years, than all the religious murders in 2000 years. The PEOPLE MUST have the means to defend themselves from an oppressive government.

And, as a scientist I am skeptical of the ridiculous, unfounded claims of the enviro extremists. In all other ways I am extremely liberal.

You know I get that libertarianism technically is liberal, but I must say I have never bought into many of the policies. It really doesn't differentiate you from conservatives besides a couple of your progressive views.

I wish there were more pro government people on this site. Those are the people I respect.

 

[Kosh]

Nope! As that is what defines our political parties. If both parties believed in the same thing would we really need two parties?

Any REAL democracy has 10 or 12 parties.

That still doesn't mean that there is any one party who represent everything that I would prefer. Isn't it amazing that you have only two parties, and yet one of those two represents anything and everything that you think?

What I think lies in both parties not just one, so your far left thinking form Europe should just stay there.

Isn't amazing that someone that wins 18% of those that voted out of the 12 candidates is the leader of all? How can that be? Only 18% supported the voice of the country..

 

[Saigon]

I admire your politics but I disagree the dichotomy is out of date. This country has become very polarized. If you mean it shouldn't be, then yes, I definitely agree.

However, to he frank. Based on what you said, I would call you a moderate liberal. A centrist would not be accurate. You lean left but not far left Which is good.

I think the polarisation is both unhealthy, but also very limiting.

Part of this is the two party system not really allowing space for Greens, the Tea Party, socialists or moderate conservatives to really stand for congress or the senate and win seats. If that situation did exist the bipolar split between left and right would have to fracture into more of a political rainbow than it is currently.

But I think the problem also exists in many multi-party democracies simply because peoples' thinking is black/white and cannot encompass more options or subtleties.

 

[westwall]

Anyone who adheres strictly to a single party and blindly follows that party's edicts is an extremist. Extremists are scary people who should not be allowed to serve in a Public office.

I have never once seen you give any support to any liberal policies.

Then you're blind as well as stupid. As I have stated MANY TIMES, I support gay marriage, decriminalization of all drugs, I am PRO choice, anti multi national corporations etc. etc. etc. The one thing that differentiates me from progressives is I want the people to be allowed to own whatever firearms they wish because progressive governments are the most vile ever created by man, responsible for more deaths in 100 years, than all the religious murders in 2000 years. The PEOPLE MUST have the means to defend themselves from an oppressive government.

And, as a scientist I am skeptical of the ridiculous, unfounded claims of the enviro extremists. In all other ways I am extremely liberal.

You know I get that libertarianism technically is liberal, but I must say I have never bought into many of the policies. It really doesn't differentiate you from conservatives besides a couple of your progressive views.

I wish there were more pro government people on this site. Those are the people I respect.

You should look up the definition of classical liberal sometime. Liberalism was the LIBERTY to be free from government. I believe in the maximum freedom for the people and the minimum power in the hands of the government. In other words the OPPOSITE of progressivism (which you are) and progressivisms sole goal is the accumulation of power in the hands of government. That never ends well for the individual.

 

[Kosh]

Anyone who adheres strictly to a single party and blindly follows that party's edicts is an extremist. Extremists are scary people who should not be allowed to serve in a Public office.

I have never once seen you give any support to any liberal policies.

Yet you are hard core far left and a far left hack, so how you can question anyone is beyond me..

 

[Saigon]

Kosh -

In all seriousness man, I am about as far left as you are.

It really is important to try to understand the political spectrum and what that means, rather than simply standing on the outer edge of one wing, and claiming that everyone is an extremist from the opposite wing.

In the last 24 hours I've seen you claim that about 20 posters, 5 newspapers and 3 species of dog are far left extremists, but never once admitted that perhaps it is you who is extreme and not everyone else.

 

[Kosh]

I admire your politics but I disagree the dichotomy is out of date. This country has become very polarized. If you mean it shouldn't be, then yes, I definitely agree.

However, to he frank. Based on what you said, I would call you a moderate liberal. A centrist would not be accurate. You lean left but not far left Which is good.

I think the polarisation is both unhealthy, but also very limiting.

Part of this is the two party system not really allowing space for Greens, the Tea Party, socialists or moderate conservatives to really stand for congress or the senate and win seats. If that situation did exist the bipolar split between left and right would have to fracture into more of a political rainbow than it is currently.

But I think the problem also exists in many multi-party democracies simply because peoples' thinking is black/white and cannot encompass more options or subtleties.

First off despite the far left propaganda that you obviously read, Conservatives can be both Democrat and Republican. Although the far left has just about forced all of them out of (D) party.

 

[Kosh]

Kosh -

In all seriousness man, I am about as far left as you are.

It really is important to try to understand the political spectrum and what that means, rather than simply standing on the outer edge of one wing, and claiming that everyone is an extremist.

Your posts show that you are far left when you use certain terms. Maybe you should be asking what the true meaning of those terms are instead of relying on one sides definition of said terms..

 

[Saigon]

Kosh -

Political terms are not defined by any one side. There are clear, standardised and obective definitions for almost all political terms. Most people understand these fairly well, but of course extremists from both wings tend to want to shift the goalposts to distort the picture.

It's quite common for left-wing extremists to brand everyone else a fascist, and as common for people such as yourself to brand everyone else 'far left' even when it is obvious that they are not.