Why left/right thinking is outdated

[Kosh]

Kosh -

Political terms are not defined by any one side. There are clear, standardised and obective definitions for almost all political terms. Most people understand these fairly well, but of course extremists from both wings tend to want to shift the goalposts to distort the picture.

It's quite common for left-wing extremists to brand everyone else a fascist, and as common for people such as yourself to brand everyone else 'far left' even when it is obvious that they are not.

The definition of right and left in the US differs from that in Europe.

The right and left in Europe would be like the far left and moderate left in the US. And while that is changing in some European nations, it is pretty much the standards of thinking and differences from Europe and America.

And yes certain terms can be endemic to one politic party.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, what is it?

 

[Youch]

For the last few years, I've increasingly found the traditional left/right dichotomy pointless and limiting. It's a mental straightjacket.

Worse still, it encourages a kind of 'Go Team!' mentality, in which blind loyalty supercedes individual thinking and makes holding a range of varied opinions impossible. We see that so much on this board - posters blindly supporting and defending one politician, while condemning others for doing the same thing.

What I mean by this is that in some areas, my beliefs are very right wing. I believe in the death penalty, I support nuclear energy, I own a small business and support pro-business economic policies. On the other hand, I believe renewable energy is inevitable, I want strong environmental protection, believe in universal healthcare, a strong public education sector and higher taxes for the super rich. In other areas, I tend to disagree with most politicians and support legalised euthanasia and legalised prostitution.

Hence, for me politics can never be about supporting one party or some candidate. Each election I look at the candidates and try and find someone whose policies I can live with. I don't think I have ever found a candidate or party I could back to the hilt.

My question is - in today's complex world - is the very idea of the left/right spectrum out of date?

Should parties themselves try to establish a range of policies that are not based on left/right traditions, but which are based around different beliefs or solutions entirely?

"Left/Right" is for simpletons. Republican/Democrat is for the partisan "Go Teamers." Neither properly define the issues.

The issue is and always has been about political philosophy. Modern liberalism vs. Conservatism. THAT is the issue, the debate and the Rosetta Stone against which we should measure all candidates. Everything else is a distraction and merely doodling in the margins.

 

[Billy000]

Anyone who adheres strictly to a single party and blindly follows that party's edicts is an extremist. Extremists are scary people who should not be allowed to serve in a Public office.

I have never once seen you give any support to any liberal policies.

Then you're blind as well as stupid. As I have stated MANY TIMES, I support gay marriage, decriminalization of all drugs, I am PRO choice, anti multi national corporations etc. etc. etc. The one thing that differentiates me from progressives is I want the people to be allowed to own whatever firearms they wish because progressive governments are the most vile ever created by man, responsible for more deaths in 100 years, than all the religious murders in 2000 years. The PEOPLE MUST have the means to defend themselves from an oppressive government.

And, as a scientist I am skeptical of the ridiculous, unfounded claims of the enviro extremists. In all other ways I am extremely liberal.

You know I get that libertarianism technically is liberal, but I must say I have never bought into many of the policies. It really doesn't differentiate you from conservatives besides a couple of your progressive views.

I wish there were more pro government people on this site. Those are the people I respect.

You should look up the definition of classical liberal sometime. Liberalism was the LIBERTY to be free from government. I believe in the maximum freedom for the people and the minimum power in the hands of the government. In other words the OPPOSITE of progressivism (which you are) and progressivisms sole goal is the accumulation of power in the hands of government. That never ends well for the individual.

If you can't appreciate the service that government supplies, then I'm sorry because you aren't as smart as you think you are.

To me, here in America, the true evil powers that be are corporations. This isn't to say I think we should abolish capitalism or corporations themselves, but I do think they need to be strictly regulated for the sake of the people. See, you see the idea of government as evil. I see it as what protects the people as the law of the land so long as it operates within reason which most of the time it does.

Don't get me wrong - I am all for the constitution and many of the freedom it guarantees, but too little government is just as bad as too much government. With the exception of the NSA scandal, I do not believe our government has over stepped its bounds in dangerous ways.

We probably disagree on certain things about the NSA scandal, but I agree it is a scandal. I'm curious though. What are some other examples of our government over stepping its power in your view?

 

[Kosh]

What I mean by this is that in some areas, my beliefs are very right wing. I believe in the death penalty, I support nuclear energy, I own a small business and support pro-business economic policies. On the other hand, I believe renewable energy is inevitable, I want strong environmental protection, believe in universal healthcare, a strong public education sector and higher taxes for the super rich. In other areas, I tend to disagree with most politicians and support legalised euthanasia and legalised prostitution.

I am highlighting things from your OP which are far left in this country.

You are far more to the left (based on the American definition) than you believe. And you have more ideals in far leftism, thus I am correct in what you are.

The far left is for small businesses as long as they are controlled by the government. The far left hates profits unless you are a far left supporter. The only to things the far left doe snot want to totally control like they do everything else, is voting and pot. Have to remember that many drugs in the US are illegal.

 

[Kosh]

Anyone who adheres strictly to a single party and blindly follows that party's edicts is an extremist. Extremists are scary people who should not be allowed to serve in a Public office.

I have never once seen you give any support to any liberal policies.

Then you're blind as well as stupid. As I have stated MANY TIMES, I support gay marriage, decriminalization of all drugs, I am PRO choice, anti multi national corporations etc. etc. etc. The one thing that differentiates me from progressives is I want the people to be allowed to own whatever firearms they wish because progressive governments are the most vile ever created by man, responsible for more deaths in 100 years, than all the religious murders in 2000 years. The PEOPLE MUST have the means to defend themselves from an oppressive government.

And, as a scientist I am skeptical of the ridiculous, unfounded claims of the enviro extremists. In all other ways I am extremely liberal.

You know I get that libertarianism technically is liberal, but I must say I have never bought into many of the policies. It really doesn't differentiate you from conservatives besides a couple of your progressive views.

I wish there were more pro government people on this site. Those are the people I respect.

You should look up the definition of classical liberal sometime. Liberalism was the LIBERTY to be free from government. I believe in the maximum freedom for the people and the minimum power in the hands of the government. In other words the OPPOSITE of progressivism (which you are) and progressivisms sole goal is the accumulation of power in the hands of government. That never ends well for the individual.

If you can't appreciate the service that government supplies, then I'm sorry because you aren't as smart as you think you are.

To me, here in America, the true evil powers that be are corporations. This isn't to say I think we should abolish capitalism or corporations themselves, but I do think they need to be strictly regulated for the sake of the people. See, you see the idea of government as evil. I see it as what protects the people as the law of the land so long as it operates within reason which most of the time it does.

Don't get me wrong - I am all for the constitution and many of the freedom it guarantees, but too little government is just as bad as too much government. With the exception of the NSA scandal, I do not believe our government has over stepped its bounds in dangerous ways.

We probably disagree on certain things about the NSA scandal, but I agree it is a scandal. I'm curious though. What are some other examples of our government over stepping its power in your view?

The far left shows they can not understand beyond their programming.

You also have also shown many times that you hate the current Constitution and either want it abolished (by voting for Obama twice) or want the parts you do like edited out like freedom speech and the second amendment.

So to claim such things as far left hack and now try to pretend you are not is very disingenuous.

 

[Saigon]

"Left/Right" is for simpletons. Republican/Democrat is for the partisan "Go Teamers." Neither properly define the issues.

The issue is and always has been about political philosophy. Modern liberalism vs. Conservatism. THAT is the issue, the debate and the Rosetta Stone against which we should measure all candidates. Everything else is a distraction and merely doodling in the margins.

I agree with you - but shouldn't Liberalism and Conservatism each be split into two or three smaller 'subsets'?

To me there is a huge distance between the outer right wing of the Tea Party and the centrist thinking of many consrvatives - which is why it amazes me that on this board we see so much of the GOP = Good, Dem = Evil (and its opposite).

 

[Billy000]

I have never once seen you give any support to any liberal policies.

Then you're blind as well as stupid. As I have stated MANY TIMES, I support gay marriage, decriminalization of all drugs, I am PRO choice, anti multi national corporations etc. etc. etc. The one thing that differentiates me from progressives is I want the people to be allowed to own whatever firearms they wish because progressive governments are the most vile ever created by man, responsible for more deaths in 100 years, than all the religious murders in 2000 years. The PEOPLE MUST have the means to defend themselves from an oppressive government.

And, as a scientist I am skeptical of the ridiculous, unfounded claims of the enviro extremists. In all other ways I am extremely liberal.

You know I get that libertarianism technically is liberal, but I must say I have never bought into many of the policies. It really doesn't differentiate you from conservatives besides a couple of your progressive views.

I wish there were more pro government people on this site. Those are the people I respect.

You should look up the definition of classical liberal sometime. Liberalism was the LIBERTY to be free from government. I believe in the maximum freedom for the people and the minimum power in the hands of the government. In other words the OPPOSITE of progressivism (which you are) and progressivisms sole goal is the accumulation of power in the hands of government. That never ends well for the individual.

If you can't appreciate the service that government supplies, then I'm sorry because you aren't as smart as you think you are.

To me, here in America, the true evil powers that be are corporations. This isn't to say I think we should abolish capitalism or corporations themselves, but I do think they need to be strictly regulated for the sake of the people. See, you see the idea of government as evil. I see it as what protects the people as the law of the land so long as it operates within reason which most of the time it does.

Don't get me wrong - I am all for the constitution and many of the freedom it guarantees, but too little government is just as bad as too much government. With the exception of the NSA scandal, I do not believe our government has over stepped its bounds in dangerous ways.

We probably disagree on certain things about the NSA scandal, but I agree it is a scandal. I'm curious though. What are some other examples of our government over stepping its power in your view?

The far left shows they can not understand beyond their programming.

You also have also shown many times that you hate the current Constitution and either want it abolished (by voting for Obama twice) or want the parts you do like edited out like freedom speech and the second amendment.

So to claim such things as far left hack and now try to pretend you are not is very disingenuous.

Everything is so black and white with you. You clearly have no idea what is the difference between the far left and the moderate left.

 

[Saigon]

Kosh -

How long has nuclear energy been a sign of left-wing thinking?

Honestly....you really are a bit helpless, aren't you? It's like watching a fish climb a tree.

 

[westwall]

Anyone who adheres strictly to a single party and blindly follows that party's edicts is an extremist. Extremists are scary people who should not be allowed to serve in a Public office.

I have never once seen you give any support to any liberal policies.

Then you're blind as well as stupid. As I have stated MANY TIMES, I support gay marriage, decriminalization of all drugs, I am PRO choice, anti multi national corporations etc. etc. etc. The one thing that differentiates me from progressives is I want the people to be allowed to own whatever firearms they wish because progressive governments are the most vile ever created by man, responsible for more deaths in 100 years, than all the religious murders in 2000 years. The PEOPLE MUST have the means to defend themselves from an oppressive government.

And, as a scientist I am skeptical of the ridiculous, unfounded claims of the enviro extremists. In all other ways I am extremely liberal.

You know I get that libertarianism technically is liberal, but I must say I have never bought into many of the policies. It really doesn't differentiate you from conservatives besides a couple of your progressive views.

I wish there were more pro government people on this site. Those are the people I respect.

You should look up the definition of classical liberal sometime. Liberalism was the LIBERTY to be free from government. I believe in the maximum freedom for the people and the minimum power in the hands of the government. In other words the OPPOSITE of progressivism (which you are) and progressivisms sole goal is the accumulation of power in the hands of government. That never ends well for the individual.

If you can't appreciate the service that government supplies, then I'm sorry because you aren't as smart as you think you are.

To me, here in America, the true evil powers that be are corporations. This isn't to say I think we should abolish capitalism or corporations themselves, but I do think they need to be strictly regulated for the sake of the people. See, you see the idea of government as evil. I see it as what protects the people as the law of the land so long as it operates within reason which most of the time it does.

Don't get me wrong - I am all for the constitution and many of the freedom it guarantees, but too little government is just as bad as too much government. With the exception of the NSA scandal, I do not believe our government has over stepped its bounds in dangerous ways.

We probably disagree on certain things about the NSA scandal, but I agree it is a scandal. I'm curious though. What are some other examples of our government over stepping its power in your view?

I very much appreciate the beneficial aspect of limited government. Multinational governments have bought our government. If you are too blind to see that then it is YOU who are not nearly as smart as you think you are. As far as government overreach, the Tuskeegee syphilis experiments come to mind, the introduction of pathogens into the atmosphere around the Bay Area to see how the wind patterns would push them and the deaths that were caused by them. The 70 year experiment run on the "downwinders" is another excellent example. There are loads more but you have to be willing to admit that government is by its very nature antagonistic to the civilian population.

The only safe governments are those that have the greatest amount of civilian control over them.

 

[Kosh]

Then you're blind as well as stupid. As I have stated MANY TIMES, I support gay marriage, decriminalization of all drugs, I am PRO choice, anti multi national corporations etc. etc. etc. The one thing that differentiates me from progressives is I want the people to be allowed to own whatever firearms they wish because progressive governments are the most vile ever created by man, responsible for more deaths in 100 years, than all the religious murders in 2000 years. The PEOPLE MUST have the means to defend themselves from an oppressive government.

And, as a scientist I am skeptical of the ridiculous, unfounded claims of the enviro extremists. In all other ways I am extremely liberal.

You know I get that libertarianism technically is liberal, but I must say I have never bought into many of the policies. It really doesn't differentiate you from conservatives besides a couple of your progressive views.

I wish there were more pro government people on this site. Those are the people I respect.

You should look up the definition of classical liberal sometime. Liberalism was the LIBERTY to be free from government. I believe in the maximum freedom for the people and the minimum power in the hands of the government. In other words the OPPOSITE of progressivism (which you are) and progressivisms sole goal is the accumulation of power in the hands of government. That never ends well for the individual.

If you can't appreciate the service that government supplies, then I'm sorry because you aren't as smart as you think you are.

To me, here in America, the true evil powers that be are corporations. This isn't to say I think we should abolish capitalism or corporations themselves, but I do think they need to be strictly regulated for the sake of the people. See, you see the idea of government as evil. I see it as what protects the people as the law of the land so long as it operates within reason which most of the time it does.

Don't get me wrong - I am all for the constitution and many of the freedom it guarantees, but too little government is just as bad as too much government. With the exception of the NSA scandal, I do not believe our government has over stepped its bounds in dangerous ways.

We probably disagree on certain things about the NSA scandal, but I agree it is a scandal. I'm curious though. What are some other examples of our government over stepping its power in your view?

The far left shows they can not understand beyond their programming.

You also have also shown many times that you hate the current Constitution and either want it abolished (by voting for Obama twice) or want the parts you do like edited out like freedom speech and the second amendment.

So to claim such things as far left hack and now try to pretend you are not is very disingenuous.

Everything is so black and white with you. You clearly have no idea what is the difference between the far left and the moderate left.

You clearly demonstrate that you are far left and not even close to be moderate, if you were you would not support Obama or have voted for him twice..

 

[Bush92]

Bullshit. Loony left has damaged this nation far worse than righties. But, I maintain the worse thing Georgie W Bush ever did (despite his fucked up war in Iraq ) was give us Barack Obama.

 

[Kosh]

Kosh -

How long has nuclear energy been a sign of left-wing thinking?

Honestly....you really are a bit helpless, aren't you? It's like watching a fish climb a tree.

It is recent in the last 20 years or so in the US. Before that the far left was against nuclear energy of any kind.

There are still pockets of far left groups that oppose it, but the bulk now support it.

 

[Kosh]

I have never once seen you give any support to any liberal policies.

Then you're blind as well as stupid. As I have stated MANY TIMES, I support gay marriage, decriminalization of all drugs, I am PRO choice, anti multi national corporations etc. etc. etc. The one thing that differentiates me from progressives is I want the people to be allowed to own whatever firearms they wish because progressive governments are the most vile ever created by man, responsible for more deaths in 100 years, than all the religious murders in 2000 years. The PEOPLE MUST have the means to defend themselves from an oppressive government.

And, as a scientist I am skeptical of the ridiculous, unfounded claims of the enviro extremists. In all other ways I am extremely liberal.

You know I get that libertarianism technically is liberal, but I must say I have never bought into many of the policies. It really doesn't differentiate you from conservatives besides a couple of your progressive views.

I wish there were more pro government people on this site. Those are the people I respect.

You should look up the definition of classical liberal sometime. Liberalism was the LIBERTY to be free from government. I believe in the maximum freedom for the people and the minimum power in the hands of the government. In other words the OPPOSITE of progressivism (which you are) and progressivisms sole goal is the accumulation of power in the hands of government. That never ends well for the individual.

If you can't appreciate the service that government supplies, then I'm sorry because you aren't as smart as you think you are.

To me, here in America, the true evil powers that be are corporations. This isn't to say I think we should abolish capitalism or corporations themselves, but I do think they need to be strictly regulated for the sake of the people. See, you see the idea of government as evil. I see it as what protects the people as the law of the land so long as it operates within reason which most of the time it does.

Don't get me wrong - I am all for the constitution and many of the freedom it guarantees, but too little government is just as bad as too much government. With the exception of the NSA scandal, I do not believe our government has over stepped its bounds in dangerous ways.

We probably disagree on certain things about the NSA scandal, but I agree it is a scandal. I'm curious though. What are some other examples of our government over stepping its power in your view?

I very much appreciate the beneficial aspect of limited government. Multinational governments have bought our government. If you are too blind to see that then it is YOU who are not nearly as smart as you think you are. As far as government overreach, the Tuskeegee syphilis experiments come to mind, the introduction of pathogens into the atmosphere around the Bay Area to see how the wind patterns would push them and the deaths that were caused by them. The 70 year experiment run on the "downwinders" is another excellent example. There are loads more but you have to be willing to admit that government is by its very nature antagonistic to the civilian population.

The only safe governments are those that have the greatest amount of civilian control over them.

Our current government does NOT have any real oversight. The media was supposed to be that oversight, but with close to 80% in the back pocket of the DNC, not sure how that can be the case anymore.

 

[Billy000]

You know I get that libertarianism technically is liberal, but I must say I have never bought into many of the policies. It really doesn't differentiate you from conservatives besides a couple of your progressive views.

I wish there were more pro government people on this site. Those are the people I respect.

You should look up the definition of classical liberal sometime. Liberalism was the LIBERTY to be free from government. I believe in the maximum freedom for the people and the minimum power in the hands of the government. In other words the OPPOSITE of progressivism (which you are) and progressivisms sole goal is the accumulation of power in the hands of government. That never ends well for the individual.

If you can't appreciate the service that government supplies, then I'm sorry because you aren't as smart as you think you are.

To me, here in America, the true evil powers that be are corporations. This isn't to say I think we should abolish capitalism or corporations themselves, but I do think they need to be strictly regulated for the sake of the people. See, you see the idea of government as evil. I see it as what protects the people as the law of the land so long as it operates within reason which most of the time it does.

Don't get me wrong - I am all for the constitution and many of the freedom it guarantees, but too little government is just as bad as too much government. With the exception of the NSA scandal, I do not believe our government has over stepped its bounds in dangerous ways.

We probably disagree on certain things about the NSA scandal, but I agree it is a scandal. I'm curious though. What are some other examples of our government over stepping its power in your view?

The far left shows they can not understand beyond their programming.

You also have also shown many times that you hate the current Constitution and either want it abolished (by voting for Obama twice) or want the parts you do like edited out like freedom speech and the second amendment.

So to claim such things as far left hack and now try to pretend you are not is very disingenuous.

Everything is so black and white with you. You clearly have no idea what is the difference between the far left and the moderate left.

You clearly demonstrate that you are far left and not even close to be moderate, if you were you would not support Obama or have voted for him twice..

Answer my question. What is the difference between the moderate left and the far left? Name the issues.

 

[Kosh]

You should look up the definition of classical liberal sometime. Liberalism was the LIBERTY to be free from government. I believe in the maximum freedom for the people and the minimum power in the hands of the government. In other words the OPPOSITE of progressivism (which you are) and progressivisms sole goal is the accumulation of power in the hands of government. That never ends well for the individual.

If you can't appreciate the service that government supplies, then I'm sorry because you aren't as smart as you think you are.

To me, here in America, the true evil powers that be are corporations. This isn't to say I think we should abolish capitalism or corporations themselves, but I do think they need to be strictly regulated for the sake of the people. See, you see the idea of government as evil. I see it as what protects the people as the law of the land so long as it operates within reason which most of the time it does.

Don't get me wrong - I am all for the constitution and many of the freedom it guarantees, but too little government is just as bad as too much government. With the exception of the NSA scandal, I do not believe our government has over stepped its bounds in dangerous ways.

We probably disagree on certain things about the NSA scandal, but I agree it is a scandal. I'm curious though. What are some other examples of our government over stepping its power in your view?

The far left shows they can not understand beyond their programming.

You also have also shown many times that you hate the current Constitution and either want it abolished (by voting for Obama twice) or want the parts you do like edited out like freedom speech and the second amendment.

So to claim such things as far left hack and now try to pretend you are not is very disingenuous.

Everything is so black and white with you. You clearly have no idea what is the difference between the far left and the moderate left.

You clearly demonstrate that you are far left and not even close to be moderate, if you were you would not support Obama or have voted for him twice..

Answer my question. What is the difference between the moderate left and the far left? Name the issues.

You did not ask a question, you just went on one of your far left rants like you always do.

How about you answer your question and show you understand the differences. Other than that you have always been a far left hack.

 

[Billy000]

I have never once seen you give any support to any liberal policies.

Then you're blind as well as stupid. As I have stated MANY TIMES, I support gay marriage, decriminalization of all drugs, I am PRO choice, anti multi national corporations etc. etc. etc. The one thing that differentiates me from progressives is I want the people to be allowed to own whatever firearms they wish because progressive governments are the most vile ever created by man, responsible for more deaths in 100 years, than all the religious murders in 2000 years. The PEOPLE MUST have the means to defend themselves from an oppressive government.

And, as a scientist I am skeptical of the ridiculous, unfounded claims of the enviro extremists. In all other ways I am extremely liberal.

You know I get that libertarianism technically is liberal, but I must say I have never bought into many of the policies. It really doesn't differentiate you from conservatives besides a couple of your progressive views.

I wish there were more pro government people on this site. Those are the people I respect.

I
is what is corrupting our government.




You should look up the definition of classical liberal sometime. Liberalism was the LIBERTY to be free from government. I believe in the maximum freedom for the people and the minimum power in the hands of the government. In other words the OPPOSITE of progressivism (which you are) and progressivisms sole goal is the accumulation of power in the hands of government. That never ends well for the individual.

If you can't appreciate the service that government supplies, then I'm sorry because you aren't as smart as you think you are.

To me, here in America, the true evil powers that be are corporations. This isn't to say I think we should abolish capitalism or corporations themselves, but I do think they need to be strictly regulated for the sake of the people. See, you see the idea of government as evil. I see it as what protects the people as the law of the land so long as it operates within reason which most of the time it does.

Don't get me wrong - I am all for the constitution and many of the freedom it guarantees, but too little government is just as bad as too much government. With the exception of the NSA scandal, I do not believe our government has over stepped its bounds in dangerous ways.

We probably disagree on certain things about the NSA scandal, but I agree it is a scandal. I'm curious though. What are some other examples of our government over stepping its power in your view?

I very much appreciate the beneficial aspect of limited government. Multinational governments have bought our government. If you are too blind to see that then it is YOU who are not nearly as smart as you think you are. As far as government overreach, the Tuskeegee syphilis experiments come to mind, the introduction of pathogens into the atmosphere around the Bay Area to see how the wind patterns would push them and the deaths that were caused by them. The 70 year experiment run on the "downwinders" is another excellent example. There are loads more but you have to be willing to admit that government is by its very nature antagonistic to the civilian population.

The only safe governments are those that have the greatest amount of civilian control over them.

I don't know anything about the examples you gave, but based on what you said I would hardly consider that evil or oppressive.

Tell me where's your outrage over the very low rate of corporate prosecution? Is it okay with you that corporations blatantly break laws yet their only punishment is paying meager fines? Big money from corporations is what corrupts government.

 

[Billy000]

If you can't appreciate the service that government supplies, then I'm sorry because you aren't as smart as you think you are.

To me, here in America, the true evil powers that be are corporations. This isn't to say I think we should abolish capitalism or corporations themselves, but I do think they need to be strictly regulated for the sake of the people. See, you see the idea of government as evil. I see it as what protects the people as the law of the land so long as it operates within reason which most of the time it does.

Don't get me wrong - I am all for the constitution and many of the freedom it guarantees, but too little government is just as bad as too much government. With the exception of the NSA scandal, I do not believe our government has over stepped its bounds in dangerous ways.

We probably disagree on certain things about the NSA scandal, but I agree it is a scandal. I'm curious though. What are some other examples of our government over stepping its power in your view?

The far left shows they can not understand beyond their programming.

You also have also shown many times that you hate the current Constitution and either want it abolished (by voting for Obama twice) or want the parts you do like edited out like freedom speech and the second amendment.

So to claim such things as far left hack and now try to pretend you are not is very disingenuous.

Everything is so black and white with you. You clearly have no idea what is the difference between the far left and the moderate left.

You clearly demonstrate that you are far left and not even close to be moderate, if you were you would not support Obama or have voted for him twice..

Answer my question. What is the difference between the moderate left and the far left? Name the issues.

You did not ask a question, you just went on one of your far left rants like you always do.

How about you answer your question and show you understand the differences. Other than that you have always been a far left hack.

No i asked you first. Just answer it.

That's right. You don't know how.

 

[Kosh]

The far left shows they can not understand beyond their programming.

You also have also shown many times that you hate the current Constitution and either want it abolished (by voting for Obama twice) or want the parts you do like edited out like freedom speech and the second amendment.

So to claim such things as far left hack and now try to pretend you are not is very disingenuous.

Everything is so black and white with you. You clearly have no idea what is the difference between the far left and the moderate left.

You clearly demonstrate that you are far left and not even close to be moderate, if you were you would not support Obama or have voted for him twice..

Answer my question. What is the difference between the moderate left and the far left? Name the issues.

You did not ask a question, you just went on one of your far left rants like you always do.

How about you answer your question and show you understand the differences. Other than that you have always been a far left hack.

No i asked you first. Just answer it.

That's right. You don't know how.

And no you did not ask a question. And I do not responds to demands from far left hacks that clearly hypocrites.

No I do know, but you don't as you clearly show.

You voted for Obama twice, had you been a moderate, you would not have.

Once again proving you are not a moderate nor do you know the difference as it is not available in your programming.

Anyone that thinks Obama is a centrist is clearly far left..

 

[Kosh]

Then you're blind as well as stupid. As I have stated MANY TIMES, I support gay marriage, decriminalization of all drugs, I am PRO choice, anti multi national corporations etc. etc. etc. The one thing that differentiates me from progressives is I want the people to be allowed to own whatever firearms they wish because progressive governments are the most vile ever created by man, responsible for more deaths in 100 years, than all the religious murders in 2000 years. The PEOPLE MUST have the means to defend themselves from an oppressive government.

And, as a scientist I am skeptical of the ridiculous, unfounded claims of the enviro extremists. In all other ways I am extremely liberal.

You know I get that libertarianism technically is liberal, but I must say I have never bought into many of the policies. It really doesn't differentiate you from conservatives besides a couple of your progressive views.

I wish there were more pro government people on this site. Those are the people I respect.

I
is what is corrupting our government.




You should look up the definition of classical liberal sometime. Liberalism was the LIBERTY to be free from government. I believe in the maximum freedom for the people and the minimum power in the hands of the government. In other words the OPPOSITE of progressivism (which you are) and progressivisms sole goal is the accumulation of power in the hands of government. That never ends well for the individual.

If you can't appreciate the service that government supplies, then I'm sorry because you aren't as smart as you think you are.

To me, here in America, the true evil powers that be are corporations. This isn't to say I think we should abolish capitalism or corporations themselves, but I do think they need to be strictly regulated for the sake of the people. See, you see the idea of government as evil. I see it as what protects the people as the law of the land so long as it operates within reason which most of the time it does.

Don't get me wrong - I am all for the constitution and many of the freedom it guarantees, but too little government is just as bad as too much government. With the exception of the NSA scandal, I do not believe our government has over stepped its bounds in dangerous ways.

We probably disagree on certain things about the NSA scandal, but I agree it is a scandal. I'm curious though. What are some other examples of our government over stepping its power in your view?

I very much appreciate the beneficial aspect of limited government. Multinational governments have bought our government. If you are too blind to see that then it is YOU who are not nearly as smart as you think you are. As far as government overreach, the Tuskeegee syphilis experiments come to mind, the introduction of pathogens into the atmosphere around the Bay Area to see how the wind patterns would push them and the deaths that were caused by them. The 70 year experiment run on the "downwinders" is another excellent example. There are loads more but you have to be willing to admit that government is by its very nature antagonistic to the civilian population.

The only safe governments are those that have the greatest amount of civilian control over them.

I don't know anything about the examples you gave, but based on what you said I would hardly consider that evil or oppressive.

Tell me where's your outrage over the very low rate of corporate prosecution? Is it okay with you that corporations blatantly break laws yet their only punishment is paying meager fines? Big money from corporations is what corrupts government.

Then why do you support the far left?

 

[S.J.]

The Tea Party is not an extreme group. They are simply echoing the original intent of the founding fathers. The left has Saigon brainwashed into thinking they are extremists.