Why Libertarians Oppose War

[NYcarbineer]

Are you a racist? Are you bothered by Obama being black (or mixed or whatever he is)? Is that why you bring this up totally out of the blue?

Not in the least, o' great king of irony. ... That would be your camp, as evidenced nearly every day with your situational ethics and faux outrage over all things Obama.

You know, the stuff you all blow a gasket over regarding the same kinds of crimes the white guy before him was guilty of. ... But of course, he got a free pass in your side's view.

Anyhow, you "drill baby drill" Sara Palin types can't simultaneously hold a pro-imperialism, pro-pre-emptive invasion view while hijacking the libertarian movement. It just doesn't wash. Go find a new name for your movement. I dunno.... The Rapture party.

You wont find a single conservative on this site who has played the race card. Every instance comes from the Left.
Did anyone bring up his race on this very thread? Why, yes. YOU did. YOU must be the racist here. The rest of us couldn't care less--our opposition to Obama is because he's worthless and his policies suck.

LOLOL, Conservatives don't play the race card. Conservatives ARE the race card.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Have you even see the book I posted?

It talks about both, and how it doesn't work out in the Real world..

As for your book, the premise is ridiculous. "How Rome and America Changed the World." The Roman Empire collapsed under its own weight, just as every empire in history has done. Do we really want America to follow that path?

Obviously you haven't bothered to find out the meaning..

It compares both America and Rome. Except he explains how America isn't doing what Rome failed to do.

Over-stretching itself militarily? Check. Debasing currency? Check. We're doing the same things Rome did, Britain did, etc... etc... If you'd like to clue the rest of us who haven't read this book in to the arguments of the author, however, rather than just bringing it up that'd be great.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Yes, and teh US has waged every conflict since Vietnam with volunteers, not conscripts.

Looks like the narco-libertarian arguments fall apart quickly.

No, the argument doesn't fall apart, as he said conscripts have historically been used by the U.S. He didn't say they're being used currently.

Conscripts were used from 1863 to 1865, 1917 to 1918, and 1940 to 1971. The ill was the draft in peacetime. That has not happened in almost forty years. Try again, KK.

They keyword was "historical." Trying to make the argument something it's not doesn't prove it's invalid.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

"Historically" is not an argument for the reality of today, when no one, least of all the Pentagon, wants to go back to a draft.

Oh yeah, except the Democrats, who sponsor a bill to revive it all the time.

Historically is a perfect argument, as it shows that no wars the U.S. have been engaged in can be considered just. Even the "sacred cow" wars such as the Revolutionary War, Civil War, and WW2 embraced conscription which is a form of slavery.

The Revolutionary War did not embrace conscription.

All you are saying as a libertarian that you feel no obligation to the social compact that gave you the opportunity to succeed.

Colonial Era – In times of need, each colony calls to arms all adult male citizens who group together to form colonial militias.

Revolutionary War Era – A regular army is raised by offering enlisted men cash bonuses and a promise of free western land after the war is over. This system, however, does not attract enough men and enlistments often run out before battles are over. General George Washington is forced to call on state militias, made up of poorly trained and led citizens who often leave service at inopportune times to return home and tend to their farms. Once he becomes president, Washington tries to remedy the inadequacy of the nation's military system by proposing legislation that men be registered for service and assigned to military units for training. Congress passes neither this nor similar such legislation later proposed by Presidents Adams, Jefferson, and Madison.

Full Sail - TeacherVision.com

So yes, there was conscription during the Revolutionary War.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Throngs of innocent civilians wanting to live in peace and wanting nothing to do with the US or its enemies:

So you deny that the U.S. has killed any innocent civilians in its wars?

Straw man, KK: move on.

Since this thread is about why libertarians oppose war, and one of those reasons is that in war innocent civilians will inevitably be killed, it is not a straw man.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I imagine most sane and rational people would oppose "war"

however

sometimes

wars MUST be fought

sometimes war is a necessity


WWII HAD to be fought!

else germany and japan would have invaded us and there STILL would have been war.

one might argue that we needn't get involved in korea or vietnam....

or one might argue that we should always come to the aid of our "friends"
especially against agressive forces who would slaughter millions of innocent people

Whether WW2 had to be fought is highly debatable.

Not by those who are educated, well read, and critically think.

Are you implying that I'm not educated, not well read, and that I don't critically think?

 

[JakeStarkey]

KK, I believe that you are educated and I believe that you are well informed and I believe that you believe that you critically think.

Your error is this: you do not account for your bias ~ all things libertarian good, all things anti-libertarian bad.

And you now better. Now be critically honest with yourself when you address my answer to your question.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Whether WW2 had to be fought is highly debatable.

Not by those who are educated, well read, and critically think.

Are you implying that I'm not educated, not well read, and that I don't critically think?

You don't critically think. Your ideas are a potpourri of absurdities.

 

[Tom Clancy]

Yeah, because Isolationism works so well.

When has 'isolationism' not worked well, for the U. S.?

When has Isolation ever worked?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Not by those who are educated, well read, and critically think.

Are you implying that I'm not educated, not well read, and that I don't critically think?

You don't critically think. Your ideas are a potpourri of absurdities.

I'm rubber and you're glue, etc... etc...

 

[NYcarbineer]

Yeah, because Isolationism works so well.

When has 'isolationism' not worked well, for the U. S.?

When has Isolation ever worked?

How about for the first 100 years of this country's existence.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Are you implying that I'm not educated, not well read, and that I don't critically think?

You don't critically think. Your ideas are a potpourri of absurdities.

I'm rubber and you're glue, etc... etc...

See what I mean? Absurdities.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

KK, I believe that you are educated and I believe that you are well informed and I believe that you believe that you critically think.

Your error is this: you do not account for your bias ~ all things libertarian good, all things anti-libertarian bad.

And you now better. Now be critically honest with yourself when you address my answer to your question.

I fully admit that I'm biased. Can you do the same?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

You don't critically think. Your ideas are a potpourri of absurdities.

I'm rubber and you're glue, etc... etc...

See what I mean? Absurdities.

Nothing absurd about it. I critically reasoned that that was the most intelligent reply your post warranted.

 

[rikules]

You wont find a single conservative on this site who has played the race card. Every instance comes from the Left.

I seriously doubt that.

Did anyone bring up his race on this very thread? Why, yes. YOU did. YOU must be the racist here. The rest of us couldn't care less--our opposition to Obama is because he's worthless and his policies suck.

Of COURSE you guys don't openly SAY it. Your actions and opinions on domestic policy SCREAM it.

Like I said (and you most certainly didn't deny): The things you squawk about for Obama were the same "socialize losses/private gains" crap that the Boy King conducted, but back then you all pretended Ron Paul libertarians were some threat.

Cut the crap. Your hypocrisy is showing yet again.

I dont care whether you seriously doubt it or not. Put up evidence or STFU.

So now even though no one on the conservative side brings up race, we all do anyway. Maybe it's ESP?
Hypocrisy? No, that's you. You brought race into this thread. No one else.

well, of course, the METHOD of playing the race card has changed for conservatives

(mostly...there are still some racists in the conservative movement who actually think of obama as "that nig-er")


in the old days you would have indulged in a number of racial acts;

call them nig-ers
declare them inferior, stupid, like children
say they smell

then
for awhile you (conservatives) used a different tact....
"studies show that blacks are more violent!"
"blacks are LAZY and SHIFTLESS"
"blacks screw like bunnies, have too many kids and then deplete welfare"

today...
your method is quite ingenious!....

every day you say "we don't play the race card..LIBERALS play the race card!"

and now THAT is how you play the race card....

"LIBERALS are the REAL racists! Liberals think blacks can't take care of themselves....liberals are the REAL racists!"

quite clever!

 

[JakeStarkey]

I can account for my bias and know that everything in which I believe, regulated capitalism and absolute commitment to rule of law by the Constitution, is flawed as are all matters by imperfect humanity. I do believe that libertarianism when reduced to its basic concept is nothing more than (1) a rejection of the social compact, and (2) a reduction of human greed to, "Get off my property!" Life, Kevin Kennedy, informs us that your type of redaction of human responsibility cannot never be acceptable to the welfare of the community.

 

[Godboy]

Whether WW2 had to be fought is highly debatable.

Not by those who are educated, well read, and critically think.

Are you implying that I'm not educated, not well read, and that I don't critically think?

You are incapable of "critical thinking". You are a libertarian, which makes you a complete retard by default. Apposed to ALL war? Are you fucking serious? What kind of naive little world do you live in? It should come as no surprise to anyone that Libertarians get absolutely clobbered at the polls ever single time, because we all unanimously agree you guys are a joke.

Just shut up and let real men make your decisions.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I can account for my bias and know that everything in which I believe, regulated capitalism and absolute commitment to rule of law by the Constitution, is flawed as are all matters flawed by imperfect humanity. I do believe that libertarianism when reduced to its basic concept is nothing more than (1) a rejection of the social compact, and (2) a reduction of human greed to, "Get off my property!" Life, Kevin Kennedy, informs us that your type of redaction of human responsibility cannot never be acceptable to the welfare of the community.

The welfare of the community does not trump individual rights.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Not by those who are educated, well read, and critically think.

Are you implying that I'm not educated, not well read, and that I don't critically think?

You are incapable of "critical thinking". You are a libertarian, which makes you a complete retard by default. Apposed to ALL war? Are you fucking serious? What kind of naive little world do you live in? It should come as no surprise to anyone that Libertarians get absolutely clobbered at the polls ever single time, because we all unanimously agree you guys are a joke.

Just shut up and let real men make your decisions.

No thank you.

 

[Dr Grump]

You mean other people who are determined to strip your life, liberty, and property? Those people?

You mean like in Vietnam? Fail
You mean like in Korea? Fail
You mean like in Iraq? Fail
You mean like in Afghanistan? Fail