Why should the poor not have to pay federal income tax

[OohPooPahDoo]

we need to remove mortgage deduction & child exemption hand-outs too

The mortgage interest deduction is a handout to the wealthy, I don't think it would get support amongst Republicans.

 

[American Horse]

That's not all WE hear. Its all YOU hear.


A person can't afford 10 dollars a month.

There, I said it.




There's already a federal tax on cigarettes and alcohol, moron. $1.01 a pack of smokes and 30 cents per six pack. If they buy 9 packs of smokes and 3 six packs of beer a month, they've already paid the $10 per month you'd like them to contribute.

Complaining about the poor not paying enough income tax and smoking too many cigarettes in the same OP is simply STUPID, as the cigarette tax IS A POOR TAX.



How the fuck would I, or any other poster besides you, know the answer to this? If its an important question for you to answer, you would have kept track yourself, and you'd be able to answer your question right here and now.




If rich people didn't have poor people to work for them they'd die of starvation. You can own all the arable land in the world, if you don't work the land yourself or find someone else willing to do it for pay, you will die.

My wife and I buy 60 or 70 packs of smokes and 10 6-packs of beer a month and I don't get near the return on that investment that the poor do.

Your return will come when you get lung cancer.



Tax on your savings? Ever heard of an IRA? Perhaps you should reevaluate your investment plan.

Real estate? That's local issue. Take it up with your local government, explain to them that you don't want education or roads or garbage service.



Its irresponsible to build and maintain roads that lead to your driveway? I pay over 1% of the purchase price of my home in property taxes annually. In terms of the rental unit next door, nearly 10% of the fair market rental income from that unit goes to the share of the property taxes for that unit.
And because of this - consequently, according to you - I should be whining like a little bitch about someone down the street using food stamps.

In effect, I'm being punished for owning my own home outright, being able to afford my own food and medical care, getting an education and working hard all my life.

Right, paying for things that everyone needs is 'punishment'. I would humbly suggest you move to a nation with a different philosophy.

I worked my butt off to get what I have and you want to take it away and give it to some lazy bastard that sits on his porch smoking weed all day? Fuck off!

You have to have earned income to get the earned income tax credit. Perhaps you should be asking for your education dollars back.

Oopoop, you are exactly right there are hidden taxes we all pay including the very poor. And the EIC is a tool to reimburse them for some of those taxes, including their FICA to encourage them to work, have earnings, and be a part of the system.

But the problem is that they pay no Federal Income Taxes, and since they don't, they aren't made the least bit uncomfortable as regards the rates others have to pay, and therefore, for the most part they are perfectly happy to see those rates increase. If they paid a tax, and it should be a percentage, not some fixed unchanging amount, then their level of consciousness would be raised on the responsiblities of citizenship.

If the burden placed on our corporations both in start up and in the US corporate tax rate were much reduced, (and the loopholes put in place to promote social imperatives by the politicians would not exist), there would be more jobs, fewer poor, and the enablement of more taxpayers to participate in the system. The taxes on corporations amounts to regressive taxes on the poor, because as I'm sure you know those taxes are passed on to the end consumer; those who can afford them and those who cannot.

 

[Intense]

Where does the 16th amendment say the income tax must be the same % on all income?

I don't recall that it does, but if memory serves me, there is something in the Constitution about equal protection. Maybe you could look that up and explain the constitutionality of a progressive tax structure.

Explain how its unconstitutional.

Its a tax on income. The 16th amendment allows this.

Its a tax not based on race, gender, religion, or ethnicity, any two people who have the same tax return will be taxed the exact same amount. Thus I fail to see the inequity.

That all depends on Who is doing the Interpreting. Your sorry ass does not see the Hypocrisy in the Tax Code, fine. Just so your knee pads and K-Y Jelly are tax deductible, you have nothing to complain about. he Tax Code Sucks, and is filled with scams and schemes. It needs to be replaced. Everyone needs to contribute their share. That is the only way for it to be fair. Do you receive benefit from living in this Society? You think it's okay for you to impose burdens on others, while exempting yourself? Can you be more disingenuous? Not really. Try this when you are done with your Hissy Fit, "Not Imposing on Others, what You are not Willing To Endure Yourself.

For the Reasonable here, considering that a flat percentage Income Tax, that is impartial to how much you gain, or how you gain, puts all of us in the same boat, without prejudice or partiality. Eliminate Exemptions and Subsidies, and factor that into a fair percentage, that we All can live with. Stop with enabling Privilege, and the corruptions of Principle, it brings with it. Stop lying to yourselves. Stop lying to me.

 

[bitterlyclingin]

Equality of birth, not of outcome. The sewers carry their excrement away too. They need to be paid for.

Frank McCourts father, of "Angela's Ashes" rather than stop his drinking and use the money his infrequent jobs provided for the care and support of his family, returned to Ireland where he knew his family would be able to live off the dole they provided over there and he could still hoist his Guinness.

 

[Dr.Drock]

All we hear from the left is have the rich pay more. Give more . GIMME Why cant the poor pay something. Even if its 120 dollars a year .. YOu cant say a person cant afford 10 dollars a month .. I am sure they are wasting more then that on other things like fast food, cigarettes, booze. How many times I have been behind someone paying with food stamps and have beer and cigs they are about to buy as well. But, if that wasnt bad enough they dont pay they get EIC as well so the rich people are paying them for nothing.

Liberals buy votes by doing everything they can to keep the poor from paying income tax.

So, Reagan was a liberal?

Tax Reform Act of 1986, signed into law by Ronald Reagan on Oct. 22, 1986. He called it a “revolution” and “the most sweeping overhaul of our tax code in our nation’s history.”

Reagan was especially pleased that “millions of the working poor will be dropped from the tax rolls altogether” and that rich people and big corporations would “pay their fair share.” The law was indeed a major accomplishment, one that Reagan had every right to be proud of.

Bruce Bartlett: The Tax Reform Act of 1986: Should We Do It Again? - NYTimes.com

The last thing any republican wants to hear is the reality that their hero Reagan was a big gov't liberal.

 

[Jarhead]

we need to remove mortgage deduction & child exemption hand-outs too

The mortgage interest deduction is a handout to the wealthy, I don't think it would get support amongst Republicans.

How is it a handout to the wealthy?

Are you aware of how many section 42 and section 8 and Mitchell Lama properties went co-op or condo offering insider prices tro existing low income familes as little as 5K to own a unit that has an open market value of 250K?

After 1 year, they were able to re-fiannce at market value and take out hoards of cash , get the interest deduction.

But then again, my guess is you have no idea what section 42 (LIHTC), section 8 and Mitchel Lama properties are.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

My wife and I buy 60 or 70 packs of smokes and 10 6-packs of beer a month and I don't get near the return on that investment that the poor do.

Your return will come when you get lung cancer.



Tax on your savings? Ever heard of an IRA? Perhaps you should reevaluate your investment plan.

Real estate? That's local issue. Take it up with your local government, explain to them that you don't want education or roads or garbage service.



Its irresponsible to build and maintain roads that lead to your driveway? I pay over 1% of the purchase price of my home in property taxes annually. In terms of the rental unit next door, nearly 10% of the fair market rental income from that unit goes to the share of the property taxes for that unit.
And because of this - consequently, according to you - I should be whining like a little bitch about someone down the street using food stamps.



Right, paying for things that everyone needs is 'punishment'. I would humbly suggest you move to a nation with a different philosophy.

I worked my butt off to get what I have and you want to take it away and give it to some lazy bastard that sits on his porch smoking weed all day? Fuck off!

You have to have earned income to get the earned income tax credit. Perhaps you should be asking for your education dollars back.

Oopoop, you are exactly right there are hidden taxes we all pay including the very poor. And the EIC is a tool to reimburse them for some of those taxes, including their FICA to encourage them to work, have earnings, and be a part of the system.

But the problem is that they pay no Federal Income Taxes, and since they don't, they aren't made the least bit uncomfortable as regards the rates others have to pay, and therefore, for the most part they are perfectly happy to see those rates increase. If they paid a tax, and it should be a percentage, not some fixed unchanging amount, then their level of consciousness would be raised on the responsiblities of citizenship.

If the burden placed on our corporations both in start up and in the US corporate tax rate were much reduced, (and the loopholes put in place to promote social imperatives by the politicians would not exist), there would be more jobs, fewer poor, and the enablement of more taxpayers to participate in the system. The taxes on corporations amounts to regressive taxes on the poor, because as I'm sure you know those taxes are passed on to the end consumer; those who can afford them and those who cannot.

Their 'level of consciousness' ? You've been smoking too much dope. Sorry but a married couple who makes 18.8k a year (standard married deduct + 2 exemptions) shouldn't have to pay federal income tax, that's absurd. That's like making the owner of a jalopy pay a luxury car tax, or the homestead owner of a one bedroom shack on a 1/10 acre lot pay a property tax.

 

[Ernie S.]

Very.

Good for you. You think you've got me all figured out. 'cept you don't know squat about me.

Sure I do, unless you're EXTREMELY wealthy, which I'd be willing to bet you aren't. You'd be an idiot to not have at least some sort of health insurance coverage in the event that you had a major incident happen. No one short of the super wealthy can afford the out of pocket expenses that long term cancer/heart attack/stroke/etc.. treatment requires.

Based on your complete ignorance as to how insurance works and what health care costs are like, I'm going to take a guess and say you really aren't very smart. Since we know you're not very bright, then theres a solid chance that you're not wealthy enough to go without insurance. Maybe you hit the lottery or something, but again I doubt that. So I'll take my chances and say you're dumb and broke. Feel free to prove me wrong though.

I have no need or desire to prove you wrong. I'll admit that some unforeseen catastrophic illness or injury could wipe me out, but based on my life style and current health, the odds are greatly in my favor.
I know exactly how insurance works. It works exactly like a casino. The company bets that the premium they receive will cover the payout when spread over the pool. The insurance company, like the casino, always wins.
Other than an injury covered by workman's compensation, for the last 10 years, my total payout for medical costs has been under $10.000. I have no chronic health issues and except for my cigarettes, motorcycles and tractor, my lifestyle poses little risk to my health.
Had I paid $7,200/year for insurance over these 10 years, I would have spent $62,000 needlessly. I'm only betting against the house here.
You are entitled to your opinion. Call me a fool if it makes you feel good about yourself, but the facts are, so far, I'm winning the bet.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

I don't recall that it does, but if memory serves me, there is something in the Constitution about equal protection. Maybe you could look that up and explain the constitutionality of a progressive tax structure.

Explain how its unconstitutional.

Its a tax on income. The 16th amendment allows this.

Its a tax not based on race, gender, religion, or ethnicity, any two people who have the same tax return will be taxed the exact same amount. Thus I fail to see the inequity.

That all depends on Who is doing the Interpreting.

Which interpretation of the Constitution leads you to believe that its your personal interpretation that matters above all others?

Your sorry ass does not see the Hypocrisy in the Tax Code, fine.

Sorry but I'm unfamiliar with the part of the Constitution that addresses hypocrisy.

Just so your knee pads and K-Y Jelly are tax deductible, you have nothing to complain about. he Tax Code Sucks, and is filled with scams and schemes. It needs to be replaced. Everyone needs to contribute their share. That is the only way for it to be fair.

Everyone does contribute their share. If they don't, they are breaking the law and should be prosecuted.

Do you receive benefit from living in this Society?

Plenty. Roads, schools, garbage pickup, protection from foreign invasion, enforcement of environmental standards for the water I drink and the air I breathe, a criminal justice system to protect my body and my property from criminals, should I go on?

You think it's okay for you to impose burdens on others, while exempting yourself? Can you be more disingenuous? Not really. Try this when you are done with your Hissy Fit, "Not Imposing on Others, what You are not Willing To Endure Yourself.

I've not imposed a burden on anyone or exempted myself from any burden, I have no idea what you are talking about. My wife and I make 6 figures, we pay taxes, so shut the fuck up twatface.

For the Reasonable here, considering that a flat percentage Income Tax, that is impartial to how much you gain, or how you gain, puts all of us in the same boat, without prejudice or partiality.

What "boat" is it you are referring to? Is that a legal term? I fail to see how taxing everyone the same will place them all in a boat together.

 

[Ernie S.]

That's not all WE hear. Its all YOU hear.


A person can't afford 10 dollars a month.

There, I said it.




There's already a federal tax on cigarettes and alcohol, moron. $1.01 a pack of smokes and 30 cents per six pack. If they buy 9 packs of smokes and 3 six packs of beer a month, they've already paid the $10 per month you'd like them to contribute.

Complaining about the poor not paying enough income tax and smoking too many cigarettes in the same OP is simply STUPID, as the cigarette tax IS A POOR TAX.



How the fuck would I, or any other poster besides you, know the answer to this? If its an important question for you to answer, you would have kept track yourself, and you'd be able to answer your question right here and now.




If rich people didn't have poor people to work for them they'd die of starvation. You can own all the arable land in the world, if you don't work the land yourself or find someone else willing to do it for pay, you will die.

I'm planting cotton in a couple months. Do you want to come pick it for me? How much do you get/acre?

No. Find some Mesicans

Sorry can't find any. They all left for Georgia and Mississippi.

 

[WillowTree]

hey libtards.. "are we all in this together"? or are we knot.

 

[American Horse]

Your return will come when you get lung cancer.



Tax on your savings? Ever heard of an IRA? Perhaps you should reevaluate your investment plan.

Real estate? That's local issue. Take it up with your local government, explain to them that you don't want education or roads or garbage service.



Its irresponsible to build and maintain roads that lead to your driveway? I pay over 1% of the purchase price of my home in property taxes annually. In terms of the rental unit next door, nearly 10% of the fair market rental income from that unit goes to the share of the property taxes for that unit.
And because of this - consequently, according to you - I should be whining like a little bitch about someone down the street using food stamps.



Right, paying for things that everyone needs is 'punishment'. I would humbly suggest you move to a nation with a different philosophy.



You have to have earned income to get the earned income tax credit. Perhaps you should be asking for your education dollars back.

Oopoop, you are exactly right there are hidden taxes we all pay including the very poor. And the EIC is a tool to reimburse them for some of those taxes, including their FICA to encourage them to work, have earnings, and be a part of the system.

But the problem is that they pay no Federal Income Taxes, and since they don't, they aren't made the least bit uncomfortable as regards the rates others have to pay, and therefore, for the most part they are perfectly happy to see those rates increase. If they paid a tax, and it should be a percentage, not some fixed unchanging amount, then their level of consciousness would be raised on the responsiblities of citizenship.

If the burden placed on our corporations both in start up and in the US corporate tax rate were much reduced, (and the loopholes put in place to promote social imperatives by the politicians would not exist), there would be more jobs, fewer poor, and the enablement of more taxpayers to participate in the system. The taxes on corporations amounts to regressive taxes on the poor, because as I'm sure you know those taxes are passed on to the end consumer; those who can afford them and those who cannot.

Their 'level of consciousness' ? You've been smoking too much dope. Sorry but a married couple who makes 18.8k a year (standard married deduct + 2 exemptions) shouldn't have to pay federal income tax, that's absurd. That's like making the owner of a jalopy pay a luxury car tax, or the homestead owner of a one bedroom shack on a 1/10 acre lot pay a property tax.

The owner of that jalopie does pay a tax in his state, for the right to drive on the state highways, and the shack owner on a 1/10 acre lot (which don't exist except in trailer courts) does pay a tax on that lot, or a proportional payment whether directly or indirectly if he rents it. At the local level everyone has to carry a part of the load.

But what I'm trying to say is they need to be a part of the system which they benefit from in all levels of government. As you know, that married couple, with their exemptions and standard deduction pays no federal taxes, and to a large degree not FICA, because the EIT reimburses them those "taxes" when they file. I'm ok with that, but I want them to be made aware that first they are taxed, and then they are being let off the hook.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Oopoop, you are exactly right there are hidden taxes we all pay including the very poor. And the EIC is a tool to reimburse them for some of those taxes, including their FICA to encourage them to work, have earnings, and be a part of the system.

But the problem is that they pay no Federal Income Taxes, and since they don't, they aren't made the least bit uncomfortable as regards the rates others have to pay, and therefore, for the most part they are perfectly happy to see those rates increase. If they paid a tax, and it should be a percentage, not some fixed unchanging amount, then their level of consciousness would be raised on the responsiblities of citizenship.

If the burden placed on our corporations both in start up and in the US corporate tax rate were much reduced, (and the loopholes put in place to promote social imperatives by the politicians would not exist), there would be more jobs, fewer poor, and the enablement of more taxpayers to participate in the system. The taxes on corporations amounts to regressive taxes on the poor, because as I'm sure you know those taxes are passed on to the end consumer; those who can afford them and those who cannot.

Their 'level of consciousness' ? You've been smoking too much dope. Sorry but a married couple who makes 18.8k a year (standard married deduct + 2 exemptions) shouldn't have to pay federal income tax, that's absurd. That's like making the owner of a jalopy pay a luxury car tax, or the homestead owner of a one bedroom shack on a 1/10 acre lot pay a property tax.

The owner of that jalopie does pay a tax in his state, for the right to drive on the state highways, and the shack owner oin a 1/10 acre lot in a trailer park does pay a tax on that lot, or a proportional payment whether indirectly or directly. At the local level everyone has to carry a part of the load.

But what I'm trying to say is they need to be a part of the system which they benefit from in all levels of government. As you know, that married couple, with their exemptions and standard deduction pays no federal taxes, and to a large degree not FICA, because the EIT reimburses them those "taxes" when they file. I'm ok with that, but I want them to be made aware that first they are taxed, and then they are being let off the hook.

If I am not mistaken, the FICA taxes that they get refunded through the EIC ARE withheld from their paychecks, and they do have to wait to file to get them back - thus they are certainly aware of it!

Where I live the owners of a 1 bedroom shack on a 1/10th acre would be exempt from most property taxes - the exempt taxes are about 1.5% of the property value MINUS the homestead exemption of 75k - the non-except are only about 0.1% of the property value and the owner of a $25,000 shack would wind up with a 25 dollar a year tax bill.

The luxury car tax does not apply to jalopies. Annual registration fees in this state are relatively low < $30 - fees are different from taxation, however, as they are for use of a specific thing. The registration fee to drive a car on the road is fundamentally no different than the fee to park in a state or national park

 

[NYcarbineer]

Has anyone here actually proposed a tax plan that would assure that no matter how poor you are, assuming you have some income, you pay federal income taxes?

 

[Ernie S.]

Where does the 16th amendment say the income tax must be the same % on all income?

I don't recall that it does, but if memory serves me, there is something in the Constitution about equal protection. Maybe you could look that up and explain the constitutionality of a progressive tax structure.

Explain how its unconstitutional.

Its a tax on income. The 16th amendment allows this.

Its a tax not based on race, gender, religion, or ethnicity, any two people who have the same tax return will be taxed the exact same amount. Thus I fail to see the inequity.

Why should a person that makes 10 times the income pay 16.5 times the tax for essentially the same services?
Average family of 4 with a $50,000 annual income pays $7,200/year to the IRS.
The same family making $500,000/year pays, on average, 119,000/year.

Take education alone. Average cost per pupil is around $9,000/year. Our hypothetical family making 50K doesn't even cover the cost of one of their children, while our 500K family pays enough tax to educate 13 kids. Justify that for me, OK?

 

[NYcarbineer]

hey libtards.. "are we all in this together"? or are we knot.

The American people voted to keep the taxes of the 'poor' low. When you come up with enough votes to say otherwise, then so be it.

That's how representative government works. Deal with it.

 

[RDD_1210]

Good for you. You think you've got me all figured out. 'cept you don't know squat about me.

Sure I do, unless you're EXTREMELY wealthy, which I'd be willing to bet you aren't. You'd be an idiot to not have at least some sort of health insurance coverage in the event that you had a major incident happen. No one short of the super wealthy can afford the out of pocket expenses that long term cancer/heart attack/stroke/etc.. treatment requires.

Based on your complete ignorance as to how insurance works and what health care costs are like, I'm going to take a guess and say you really aren't very smart. Since we know you're not very bright, then theres a solid chance that you're not wealthy enough to go without insurance. Maybe you hit the lottery or something, but again I doubt that. So I'll take my chances and say you're dumb and broke. Feel free to prove me wrong though.

I have no need or desire to prove you wrong. I'll admit that some unforeseen catastrophic illness or injury could wipe me out, but based on my life style and current health, the odds are greatly in my favor.
I know exactly how insurance works. It works exactly like a casino. The company bets that the premium they receive will cover the payout when spread over the pool. The insurance company, like the casino, always wins.
Other than an injury covered by workman's compensation, for the last 10 years, my total payout for medical costs has been under $10.000. I have no chronic health issues and except for my cigarettes, motorcycles and tractor, my lifestyle poses little risk to my health.
Had I paid $7,200/year for insurance over these 10 years, I would have spent $62,000 needlessly. I'm only betting against the house here.
You are entitled to your opinion. Call me a fool if it makes you feel good about yourself, but the facts are, so far, I'm winning the bet.

Holy short sighted. It only takes one major illness or accident to happen and you're done. Financially you'd be wiped out completely and the rest of us would have to pick up the tab for whatever care you couldn't afford, which would be a lot. So you're welcome in advance, but it's attitudes like yours that our country is so fucked up in terms of health care.

"Im healthy now, so I'll be healthy forever. Nothing can ever happen to me....even though I smoke a pack a day, ride motorcycles and am getting up there in age". Yeah, real solid thought process. Way to think it through.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I don't recall that it does, but if memory serves me, there is something in the Constitution about equal protection. Maybe you could look that up and explain the constitutionality of a progressive tax structure.

Explain how its unconstitutional.

Its a tax on income. The 16th amendment allows this.

Its a tax not based on race, gender, religion, or ethnicity, any two people who have the same tax return will be taxed the exact same amount. Thus I fail to see the inequity.

Why should a person that makes 10 times the income pay 16.5 times the tax for essentially the same services?
Average family of 4 with a $50,000 annual income pays $7,200/year to the IRS.
The same family making $500,000/year pays, on average, 119,000/year.

Take education alone. Average cost per pupil is around $9,000/year. Our hypothetical family making 50K doesn't even cover the cost of one of their children, while our 500K family pays enough tax to educate 13 kids. Justify that for me, OK?

You justify it by virtue of the national interest, the greater good. Without regard to those, there's no point in having a nation.

 

[NYcarbineer]

A single person earning 30,000 a year of taxable income would pay around 3000 in federal taxes.

Add 2 children to that person's family and the tax will drop to zero.

(in ballpark figures here).

So, you want the 'poor', i.e., the lower income Americans to pay taxes?

Fine...

...take away those child based credits. But keep in mind, if you do, you'll probably be taking them away from your own family as well.

Are you middle class conservatives willing to pay MORE taxes in order to make the poor pay SOME?????

 

[gallantwarrior]

Has anyone here actually proposed a tax plan that would assure that no matter how poor you are, assuming you have some income, you pay federal income taxes?

Yes. Neal Boortz's "Fair Tax". It's a good read and lays out a very sane and reasonable plan that would fairly distribute the tax burden all around among individuals and businesses. But he does call for abolition of the IRS. That ain't gonna happen as long as the pols can make votes by using the current tax code to turn everyone against each other.