Why teachers need more pay

[Flopper]

More people complain about teachers than teachers complain about pay.

That's not true. Not true at all. ...?

This thread, and others like it, proves that it is true.

My youngest nephew is struggling at the best private school in Michigan. They say he will be a A B student if he goes to public school. It's not even close. And yet private school teachers make less. They're killing you and they make less. Maybe Devos is right.

I have a grandson that goes to one of the best private schools in Washington. It's a great school. Tuition is about $20,000 a year plus additional costs for lunches, extra-curricula activities, transportation, etc. Class sizes are about 15 students. Teachers keep parents informed about classroom activities and their child's progress on a weekly basis. Almost all the students come from affluent families. No free and reduce lunches here. There are few blacks, Latinos, juvenile delinquents, or kids with serious special education problems.

The best private schools are the best because they choose their students and no they don't underpay their teachers. They pay salaries comparable to local public schools.

 

[sealybobo]

More people complain about teachers than teachers complain about pay.

That's not true. Not true at all. ...?

This thread, and others like it, proves that it is true.

.

Think about what I just showed you. Most people think teachers are underpaid, until they find out how much they fucking make.

And the public is anti union, which is how you all got such good pay. If you were in the real world only the good teachers would be getting the kind of pay you all get. So most of you are overpaid.

I pray the Republicans break the teachers union. Or is it prey? I don't know I went to public school lol

 

[sealybobo]

More people complain about teachers than teachers complain about pay.

That's not true. Not true at all. ...?

This thread, and others like it, proves that it is true.

My youngest nephew is struggling at the best private school in Michigan. They say he will be a A B student if he goes to public school. It's not even close. And yet private school teachers make less. They're killing you and they make less. Maybe Devos is right.

I have a grandson that goes to one of the best private schools in Washington. It's a great school. Tuition is about $20,000 a year plus additional costs for lunches, extra-curricula activities, transportation, etc. Class sizes are about 15 students. Teachers keep parents informed about classroom activities and their child progress on weekly basis. Almost all the students come from affluent families. No free and reduce lunches here. There are few blacks, Latinos, juvenile delinquents, or kids with serious special education problems.

The best private schools are the best because they choose their students and no they don't underpay their teachers. They pay salaries comparable to local public schools.

My nephews go to the best private school in Michigan. About $25K a year.

They chose my nephew because his brother goes there. He's not cutting it. He's getting all C's and doing homework 2 hours every night. He's going to have to pick an easier school. In a public school they say he would be getting a lot more B's and a few A's. We will see where he goes.

Those teachers dont' make anywhere near what public school teachers make.

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Cranbrook-Schools-Salaries-E260573.htm

I have been working at Cranbrook Schools full-time (More than 3 years)

Pros

Stable, professional environment. Excellent academics. Strong, mostly supportive faculty.

Cons

Low salary. Little free time during school year if you are living on campus. Less privacy if living in one of the dormitories.

 

[Flopper]

More people complain about teachers than teachers complain about pay.

That's not true. Not true at all. ...?

This thread, and others like it, proves that it is true.

.

…what do people think about teacher pay? For starters, fully two-thirds of the public thinks teachers in their state deserve a raise. And, even though most states have laws that outlaw teacher strikes, the public broadly supports teachers’ right to strike, by 53 to 32%. So the public is clearly supportive of teachers.

In an interesting wrinkle, though, it turns out that people don’t actually know how much teachers make. When respondents were told what teachers in their state earn and were then asked for their views, support fell by 18 points (to 49%). In other words, support for more pay softens substantially when respondents learn how much teachers make.

But the fact that the public consistently lines up with DeVos when asked to choose sides on some of the more controversial education differences between the Trump and Obama administrations.

School vouchers the general public supports universal vouchers by a surprisingly wide 54-31 split

Just 25% of the nation supports laws allowing the practice of “agency fees”—which entail states requiring non-members to pay a fee to unions.

The Obama administration issued a controversial directive on school discipline in which it warned school districts that they risked violating federal civil rights law if black or Latino students were disciplined at a higher rate than were other students. Just 27% of the country supports the Obama stance, while 49% opposes it.

On a related note, when it comes to assigning students to K-12 schools, the public firmly opposes the kind of race-based affirmative action that the Obama administration energetically supported but which DeVos has since rescinded. Just 18% of respondents support the Obama stance while 57% oppose it.

It you give vouchers without strings attached; that is the school can't reject the most damaged secondary ed kids, juvenile delinquents, and kids that are years behind their grade level then you will have much the same problems in private schools you have in public schools. This is why so many of the better private schools either restrict the number of vouchers they will accept or simply bow out all together.

 

[sealybobo]

More people complain about teachers than teachers complain about pay.

That's not true. Not true at all. ...?

This thread, and others like it, proves that it is true.

.

…what do people think about teacher pay? For starters, fully two-thirds of the public thinks teachers in their state deserve a raise. And, even though most states have laws that outlaw teacher strikes, the public broadly supports teachers’ right to strike, by 53 to 32%. So the public is clearly supportive of teachers.

In an interesting wrinkle, though, it turns out that people don’t actually know how much teachers make. When respondents were told what teachers in their state earn and were then asked for their views, support fell by 18 points (to 49%). In other words, support for more pay softens substantially when respondents learn how much teachers make.

But the fact that the public consistently lines up with DeVos when asked to choose sides on some of the more controversial education differences between the Trump and Obama administrations.

School vouchers the general public supports universal vouchers by a surprisingly wide 54-31 split

Just 25% of the nation supports laws allowing the practice of “agency fees”—which entail states requiring non-members to pay a fee to unions.

The Obama administration issued a controversial directive on school discipline in which it warned school districts that they risked violating federal civil rights law if black or Latino students were disciplined at a higher rate than were other students. Just 27% of the country supports the Obama stance, while 49% opposes it.

On a related note, when it comes to assigning students to K-12 schools, the public firmly opposes the kind of race-based affirmative action that the Obama administration energetically supported but which DeVos has since rescinded. Just 18% of respondents support the Obama stance while 57% oppose it.

It you give vouchers without strings attached; that is the school can't reject the most damaged secondary ed kids, juvenile delinquents, and kids that are years behind their grade level then you will have much the same problems in private schools you have in public schools. This is why so many of the better private schools either restrict the number of vouchers they will accept or simply bow out all together.

Yea a private school isn't going to take a troubled kid that's true. I'm sure it's easier teaching private school kids.

 

[Flopper]

Okay, so I hope everyone can follow me here. I am going to write about how much teachers should be paid, but not from my own perspective. I believe teachers deserve high pay for a multitude of reasons, I just want to clarify that. But let's, for a second, assume I am the kind of person who says "Teachers jobs are easy, they get summers off, they're just glorified babysitters" and the work we all know teachers need to take home doesn't count.

Let's assume we pay teachers less than what I was paid to babysit in high school. So give them...$4/hour. Let's only pay them for the hours they are in school - let's say 6.5 hours a day. That brings their daily pay to $26.

But teachers don't only teach one student. Let's say the teacher teaches 30 students. Every parent should pay $26 a day for their child to be "babysat" and at thirty students that comes out to $780/day.

Now, 5 day school week brings that to $3,900 a week.
Or, if you want to figure in days, let's say they work 180 days a year (meaning no paid vacations) $780/day for 180 days = $140,000.

The average teacher salary tends to hover between $50,000 - $60,000. So, on the high end of that spectrum, let's figure out how much teachers make per hour per child:
$60,000/180 days = $333.33/day. $333.33 per day/30 students = $11.11 per student per day. Figure in the 6.5 hours and that's $1.71 per hour per student.



So teachers get paid more than they do on average, even in my fictional scenario, where we pay teachers less per hour per child than the average babysitter, and don't pay them for any of the additional work they need to do outside of school hours, and give them no vacation pay.

All garbage.

First off, my parents are millionaires. And they were both public school teachers. Not only did both of them earn six-figure incomes by the end of their careers, but both of them went back to work after retiring, earning a full salary, plus their retirement.

"I believe teachers deserve high pay for a multitude of reasons"

No, 'teachers' do not deserve high pay. Good teachers, excellent teachers, award winning teachers, deserve high pay.

The vast majority of teachers are marginal, and many are just flat out crap. I had a teacher that would monotone a lecture for 30 minutes, and teach almost nothing.

Had another teacher that would push a VHS tape in (remember those?), hit play, and give a 'pop' quiz at the end of every single class.

That was his idea of "teaching".

So no, I reject this 'teachers deserve more' craziness. We have the most expensive, and least productive government funded school systems in the world. Most teachers should be paid less. A few should earn what they are getting, and a very tiny group should be paid a ton more because they are amazingly good at what they do and should be compensated.

I think you're missing the point. We should not pay teachers more because they deserve it. We should pay teachers more because our kids and our nation desire it.

Most people go into education bypassing more lucrative fields because getting a degree in education is easier, jobs are more plentiful, and typically the jobs are more secure. This is not an environment that attacks our best people. There has to be changes and it all begins with better salaries but that's just for starters.

Teaching should be among our most honored professions. Teacher's education should be improved. School Districts need to spend a lot more money on the classroom and reducing pupil teacher ratios. There needs to be more incentives for teachers. But it all begins with better staff and that begins with better salaries and better education for teachers.

 

[sealybobo]

Okay, so I hope everyone can follow me here. I am going to write about how much teachers should be paid, but not from my own perspective. I believe teachers deserve high pay for a multitude of reasons, I just want to clarify that. But let's, for a second, assume I am the kind of person who says "Teachers jobs are easy, they get summers off, they're just glorified babysitters" and the work we all know teachers need to take home doesn't count.

Let's assume we pay teachers less than what I was paid to babysit in high school. So give them...$4/hour. Let's only pay them for the hours they are in school - let's say 6.5 hours a day. That brings their daily pay to $26.

But teachers don't only teach one student. Let's say the teacher teaches 30 students. Every parent should pay $26 a day for their child to be "babysat" and at thirty students that comes out to $780/day.

Now, 5 day school week brings that to $3,900 a week.
Or, if you want to figure in days, let's say they work 180 days a year (meaning no paid vacations) $780/day for 180 days = $140,000.

The average teacher salary tends to hover between $50,000 - $60,000. So, on the high end of that spectrum, let's figure out how much teachers make per hour per child:
$60,000/180 days = $333.33/day. $333.33 per day/30 students = $11.11 per student per day. Figure in the 6.5 hours and that's $1.71 per hour per student.



So teachers get paid more than they do on average, even in my fictional scenario, where we pay teachers less per hour per child than the average babysitter, and don't pay them for any of the additional work they need to do outside of school hours, and give them no vacation pay.

All garbage.

First off, my parents are millionaires. And they were both public school teachers. Not only did both of them earn six-figure incomes by the end of their careers, but both of them went back to work after retiring, earning a full salary, plus their retirement.

"I believe teachers deserve high pay for a multitude of reasons"

No, 'teachers' do not deserve high pay. Good teachers, excellent teachers, award winning teachers, deserve high pay.

The vast majority of teachers are marginal, and many are just flat out crap. I had a teacher that would monotone a lecture for 30 minutes, and teach almost nothing.

Had another teacher that would push a VHS tape in (remember those?), hit play, and give a 'pop' quiz at the end of every single class.

That was his idea of "teaching".

So no, I reject this 'teachers deserve more' craziness. We have the most expensive, and least productive government funded school systems in the world. Most teachers should be paid less. A few should earn what they are getting, and a very tiny group should be paid a ton more because they are amazingly good at what they do and should be compensated.

I think you're missing the point. We should not pay teachers more because they deserve it. We should pay teachers more because our kids and our nation desire it.

Most people go into education bypassing more lucrative fields because getting a degree in education is easier, jobs are more plentiful, and typically the jobs are more secure. This is not an environment that attacks our best people. There has to be changes and it all begins with better salaries but that's just for starters.

Teaching should be among our most honored professions. Teacher's education should be improved. School Districts need to spend a lot more money on the classroom and reducing pupil teacher ratios. There needs to be more incentives for teachers. But it all begins with better staff and that begins with better salaries and better education for teachers.

I say end public schools and every parent pay for private schooling. Back in the 1800's we needed to educate the masses and we also needed to encourage people to have lots of kids.

How have we done educating the masses?

40 percent of adults can't cover a $400 emergency expense, Fed survey shows

So stop wasting money. Plus, we are overpopulated. We came up with public schools to encourage people to have more kids. Look, free schooling!!!

Today I would like to discourage the masses from having more kids. Taking away food stamps and public schools would be a good start. How many poor people would not have kids if they had to pay $5K a year for private school? GOOD!

 

[Andylusion]

Okay, so I hope everyone can follow me here. I am going to write about how much teachers should be paid, but not from my own perspective. I believe teachers deserve high pay for a multitude of reasons, I just want to clarify that. But let's, for a second, assume I am the kind of person who says "Teachers jobs are easy, they get summers off, they're just glorified babysitters" and the work we all know teachers need to take home doesn't count.

Let's assume we pay teachers less than what I was paid to babysit in high school. So give them...$4/hour. Let's only pay them for the hours they are in school - let's say 6.5 hours a day. That brings their daily pay to $26.

But teachers don't only teach one student. Let's say the teacher teaches 30 students. Every parent should pay $26 a day for their child to be "babysat" and at thirty students that comes out to $780/day.

Now, 5 day school week brings that to $3,900 a week.
Or, if you want to figure in days, let's say they work 180 days a year (meaning no paid vacations) $780/day for 180 days = $140,000.

The average teacher salary tends to hover between $50,000 - $60,000. So, on the high end of that spectrum, let's figure out how much teachers make per hour per child:
$60,000/180 days = $333.33/day. $333.33 per day/30 students = $11.11 per student per day. Figure in the 6.5 hours and that's $1.71 per hour per student.



So teachers get paid more than they do on average, even in my fictional scenario, where we pay teachers less per hour per child than the average babysitter, and don't pay them for any of the additional work they need to do outside of school hours, and give them no vacation pay.

All garbage.

First off, my parents are millionaires. And they were both public school teachers. Not only did both of them earn six-figure incomes by the end of their careers, but both of them went back to work after retiring, earning a full salary, plus their retirement.

"I believe teachers deserve high pay for a multitude of reasons"

No, 'teachers' do not deserve high pay. Good teachers, excellent teachers, award winning teachers, deserve high pay.

The vast majority of teachers are marginal, and many are just flat out crap. I had a teacher that would monotone a lecture for 30 minutes, and teach almost nothing.

Had another teacher that would push a VHS tape in (remember those?), hit play, and give a 'pop' quiz at the end of every single class.

That was his idea of "teaching".

So no, I reject this 'teachers deserve more' craziness. We have the most expensive, and least productive government funded school systems in the world. Most teachers should be paid less. A few should earn what they are getting, and a very tiny group should be paid a ton more because they are amazingly good at what they do and should be compensated.

I think you're missing the point. We should not pay teachers more because they deserve it. We should pay teachers more because our kids and our nation desire it.

Most people go into education bypassing more lucrative fields because getting a degree in education is easier, jobs are more plentiful, and typically the jobs are more secure. This is not an environment that attacks our best people. There has to be changes and it all begins with better salaries but that's just for starters.

Teaching should be among our most honored professions. Teacher's education should be improved. School Districts need to spend a lot more money on the classroom and reducing pupil teacher ratios. There needs to be more incentives for teachers. But it all begins with better staff and that begins with better salaries and better education for teachers.

Old saying "He who can, does. He who cannot, teaches".

Most people bypass lucrative fields? You assume. Most can't hardly teach in their field, let alone be successful in the private sector.

You want to make that argument with me, show me the number of people who were in fact making 6-figure incomes or were extremely high in their field, and ditched it all to become a teacher. The number of those people is exceptionally small.

The rest of that is false. You look at spending per pupil, verses the quality of educational outcomes, and there is in inverse relationship. Here in Columbus Ohio, I compared relative spending per pupil, verses the 2nd year, and 4th year students. There was a clear connection between lower spending, and higher scores.

Equally I see no evidence that reduced class room sizes equals better educational outcomes.

A Libertarian Builds Low-Cost Private Schools for the Masses

 

[sealybobo]

Okay, so I hope everyone can follow me here. I am going to write about how much teachers should be paid, but not from my own perspective. I believe teachers deserve high pay for a multitude of reasons, I just want to clarify that. But let's, for a second, assume I am the kind of person who says "Teachers jobs are easy, they get summers off, they're just glorified babysitters" and the work we all know teachers need to take home doesn't count.

Let's assume we pay teachers less than what I was paid to babysit in high school. So give them...$4/hour. Let's only pay them for the hours they are in school - let's say 6.5 hours a day. That brings their daily pay to $26.

But teachers don't only teach one student. Let's say the teacher teaches 30 students. Every parent should pay $26 a day for their child to be "babysat" and at thirty students that comes out to $780/day.

Now, 5 day school week brings that to $3,900 a week.
Or, if you want to figure in days, let's say they work 180 days a year (meaning no paid vacations) $780/day for 180 days = $140,000.

The average teacher salary tends to hover between $50,000 - $60,000. So, on the high end of that spectrum, let's figure out how much teachers make per hour per child:
$60,000/180 days = $333.33/day. $333.33 per day/30 students = $11.11 per student per day. Figure in the 6.5 hours and that's $1.71 per hour per student.



So teachers get paid more than they do on average, even in my fictional scenario, where we pay teachers less per hour per child than the average babysitter, and don't pay them for any of the additional work they need to do outside of school hours, and give them no vacation pay.

All garbage.

First off, my parents are millionaires. And they were both public school teachers. Not only did both of them earn six-figure incomes by the end of their careers, but both of them went back to work after retiring, earning a full salary, plus their retirement.

"I believe teachers deserve high pay for a multitude of reasons"

No, 'teachers' do not deserve high pay. Good teachers, excellent teachers, award winning teachers, deserve high pay.

The vast majority of teachers are marginal, and many are just flat out crap. I had a teacher that would monotone a lecture for 30 minutes, and teach almost nothing.

Had another teacher that would push a VHS tape in (remember those?), hit play, and give a 'pop' quiz at the end of every single class.

That was his idea of "teaching".

So no, I reject this 'teachers deserve more' craziness. We have the most expensive, and least productive government funded school systems in the world. Most teachers should be paid less. A few should earn what they are getting, and a very tiny group should be paid a ton more because they are amazingly good at what they do and should be compensated.

I think you're missing the point. We should not pay teachers more because they deserve it. We should pay teachers more because our kids and our nation desire it.

Most people go into education bypassing more lucrative fields because getting a degree in education is easier, jobs are more plentiful, and typically the jobs are more secure. This is not an environment that attacks our best people. There has to be changes and it all begins with better salaries but that's just for starters.

Teaching should be among our most honored professions. Teacher's education should be improved. School Districts need to spend a lot more money on the classroom and reducing pupil teacher ratios. There needs to be more incentives for teachers. But it all begins with better staff and that begins with better salaries and better education for teachers.

Old saying "He who can, does. He who cannot, teaches".

Most people bypass lucrative fields? You assume. Most can't hardly teach in their field, let alone be successful in the private sector.

You want to make that argument with me, show me the number of people who were in fact making 6-figure incomes or were extremely high in their field, and ditched it all to become a teacher. The number of those people is exceptionally small.

The rest of that is false. You look at spending per pupil, verses the quality of educational outcomes, and there is in inverse relationship. Here in Columbus Ohio, I compared relative spending per pupil, verses the 2nd year, and 4th year students. There was a clear connection between lower spending, and higher scores.

Equally I see no evidence that reduced class room sizes equals better educational outcomes.

A Libertarian Builds Low-Cost Private Schools for the Masses

I'm not buying that "most bypass lucrative fields" line either. If someone went to school and was cut out for marketing, they went into marketing. If they were talented enough to become a doctor they did. Engineering. Etc. If they were attracted to the business world maybe they went into HR or IT or whatever it is they were good at.

People who go into teaching have all these other degrees as options. They chose to be teachers because they didn't know what else they wanted to do. THey took 2 years of community college classes and then just like us they had a choice to make.

No one passed on a lucrative field because they were noble or righteous. Please don't tell me all the average teachers I know passed on lucrative fields because they were noble or righteous. That's just bullshit.

Just like sales is all I was ever really cut out to do, that's the only degree that they felt comfortable doing.

And when you graduate with a Marketing or HR degree you also have to figure out who's going to hire you when you have no experience. Teachers don't have to worry about that. They all get hired. That must play a role in why they pick teaching not to mention the job security.

 

[anotherlife]

Teachers would get more pay if 99 % of their tax budget was not all about paying pensions.

 

[skye]

There are Teachers.....

and teachers...

the crazy ones.....the progressive teachers ,those against family and Christianity ...those teachers against decency and tradition...

I say ....let them starve or find another job,

the country doesn't need you.

 

[sealybobo]

Teachers would get more pay if 99 % of their tax budget was not all about paying pensions.

Most would prefer the pension. Girl teaches for 30 years she’s 61 years old. She gets a pension the rest of her life.

We should not offer pensions to new teachers. Just pay them what teaching is worth. I did the math. Teachers make more per day than the rest of us. Like teachers are off from December 15 to Jan 7. I get 4 days off.

Add up all their days off they make A LOT per day. Teaching is worth $50k a year 60 if you’re good.

 

[Unkotare]

Teachers would get more pay if 99 % of their tax budget was not all about paying pensions.

.....Like teachers are off from December 15 to Jan 7. ....

Like, whoever told you that was, like, lying to you.

 

[Flopper]

That's not true. Not true at all. ...?

This thread, and others like it, proves that it is true.

.

…what do people think about teacher pay? For starters, fully two-thirds of the public thinks teachers in their state deserve a raise. And, even though most states have laws that outlaw teacher strikes, the public broadly supports teachers’ right to strike, by 53 to 32%. So the public is clearly supportive of teachers.

In an interesting wrinkle, though, it turns out that people don’t actually know how much teachers make. When respondents were told what teachers in their state earn and were then asked for their views, support fell by 18 points (to 49%). In other words, support for more pay softens substantially when respondents learn how much teachers make.

But the fact that the public consistently lines up with DeVos when asked to choose sides on some of the more controversial education differences between the Trump and Obama administrations.

School vouchers the general public supports universal vouchers by a surprisingly wide 54-31 split

Just 25% of the nation supports laws allowing the practice of “agency fees”—which entail states requiring non-members to pay a fee to unions.

The Obama administration issued a controversial directive on school discipline in which it warned school districts that they risked violating federal civil rights law if black or Latino students were disciplined at a higher rate than were other students. Just 27% of the country supports the Obama stance, while 49% opposes it.

On a related note, when it comes to assigning students to K-12 schools, the public firmly opposes the kind of race-based affirmative action that the Obama administration energetically supported but which DeVos has since rescinded. Just 18% of respondents support the Obama stance while 57% oppose it.

It you give vouchers without strings attached; that is the school can't reject the most damaged secondary ed kids, juvenile delinquents, and kids that are years behind their grade level then you will have much the same problems in private schools you have in public schools. This is why so many of the better private schools either restrict the number of vouchers they will accept or simply bow out all together.

Yea a private school isn't going to take a troubled kid that's true. I'm sure it's easier teaching private school kids.

Which could be why some private schools can pay less than public schools.

 

[Flopper]

Teachers would get more pay if 99 % of their tax budget was not all about paying pensions.

Most would prefer the pension. Girl teaches for 30 years she’s 61 years old. She gets a pension the rest of her life.

We should not offer pensions to new teachers. Just pay them what teaching is worth. I did the math. Teachers make more per day than the rest of us. Like teachers are off from December 15 to Jan 7. I get 4 days off.

Add up all their days off they make A LOT per day. Teaching is worth $50k a year 60 if you’re good.

Having Christmas holidays is certainly a positive aspect of teaching as is having 8 weeks off in the summer but there are offsetting negative aspects of the job:

• Many people think teaching is just showing up for class 7 hours a day. What they don’t know is how many hours they actually spend prepping for the week. Teachers are up late at night grading papers scouring the Internet for ideas for class, answering emails from students and parents, grading papers and they spend their weekends doing the same. You also have to attend school dances, parent-teacher conferences, and extracurricular activities. Then there's surveys, attendance records, grade reporting, plus decorating the classroom, and purchasing supplies. When you add up these little jobs they are usually a lot more than 40 hours a week.
• Everyone knows that teachers are required to have a college education in most all districts. However, what a lot of people don't know is that in a number of states new teachers are required to obtain a Masters with in 3 to 5 years of employment.
• Teachers must also accumulate a certain number hours of continuing education which are additional classes they have to complete each year.
• Depending on the community, many parents have no regard for their child’s education which makes the teachers job very difficult. It's also extremely frustrating since school districts are increasing holding the teacher responsible for the progress of the student regardless of the situation at home.
• Compared to other professions, there are limited opportunities for advancement. Half of our teachers will never advance out of the classroom. As one teacher said, it's like going to school all your life and never graduating.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Okay, so I hope everyone can follow me here. I am going to write about how much teachers should be paid, but not from my own perspective. I believe teachers deserve high pay for a multitude of reasons, I just want to clarify that. But let's, for a second, assume I am the kind of person who says "Teachers jobs are easy, they get summers off, they're just glorified babysitters" and the work we all know teachers need to take home doesn't count.

Let's assume we pay teachers less than what I was paid to babysit in high school. So give them...$4/hour. Let's only pay them for the hours they are in school - let's say 6.5 hours a day. That brings their daily pay to $26.

But teachers don't only teach one student. Let's say the teacher teaches 30 students. Every parent should pay $26 a day for their child to be "babysat" and at thirty students that comes out to $780/day.

Now, 5 day school week brings that to $3,900 a week.
Or, if you want to figure in days, let's say they work 180 days a year (meaning no paid vacations) $780/day for 180 days = $140,000.

The average teacher salary tends to hover between $50,000 - $60,000. So, on the high end of that spectrum, let's figure out how much teachers make per hour per child:
$60,000/180 days = $333.33/day. $333.33 per day/30 students = $11.11 per student per day. Figure in the 6.5 hours and that's $1.71 per hour per student.



So teachers get paid more than they do on average, even in my fictional scenario, where we pay teachers less per hour per child than the average babysitter, and don't pay them for any of the additional work they need to do outside of school hours, and give them no vacation pay.

All garbage.

First off, my parents are millionaires. And they were both public school teachers. Not only did both of them earn six-figure incomes by the end of their careers, but both of them went back to work after retiring, earning a full salary, plus their retirement.

"I believe teachers deserve high pay for a multitude of reasons"

No, 'teachers' do not deserve high pay. Good teachers, excellent teachers, award winning teachers, deserve high pay.

The vast majority of teachers are marginal, and many are just flat out crap. I had a teacher that would monotone a lecture for 30 minutes, and teach almost nothing.

Had another teacher that would push a VHS tape in (remember those?), hit play, and give a 'pop' quiz at the end of every single class.

That was his idea of "teaching".

So no, I reject this 'teachers deserve more' craziness. We have the most expensive, and least productive government funded school systems in the world. Most teachers should be paid less. A few should earn what they are getting, and a very tiny group should be paid a ton more because they are amazingly good at what they do and should be compensated.

None of that bullshit you described happens today.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

This thread, and others like it, proves that it is true.

.

…what do people think about teacher pay? For starters, fully two-thirds of the public thinks teachers in their state deserve a raise. And, even though most states have laws that outlaw teacher strikes, the public broadly supports teachers’ right to strike, by 53 to 32%. So the public is clearly supportive of teachers.

In an interesting wrinkle, though, it turns out that people don’t actually know how much teachers make. When respondents were told what teachers in their state earn and were then asked for their views, support fell by 18 points (to 49%). In other words, support for more pay softens substantially when respondents learn how much teachers make.

But the fact that the public consistently lines up with DeVos when asked to choose sides on some of the more controversial education differences between the Trump and Obama administrations.

School vouchers the general public supports universal vouchers by a surprisingly wide 54-31 split

Just 25% of the nation supports laws allowing the practice of “agency fees”—which entail states requiring non-members to pay a fee to unions.

The Obama administration issued a controversial directive on school discipline in which it warned school districts that they risked violating federal civil rights law if black or Latino students were disciplined at a higher rate than were other students. Just 27% of the country supports the Obama stance, while 49% opposes it.

On a related note, when it comes to assigning students to K-12 schools, the public firmly opposes the kind of race-based affirmative action that the Obama administration energetically supported but which DeVos has since rescinded. Just 18% of respondents support the Obama stance while 57% oppose it.

It you give vouchers without strings attached; that is the school can't reject the most damaged secondary ed kids, juvenile delinquents, and kids that are years behind their grade level then you will have much the same problems in private schools you have in public schools. This is why so many of the better private schools either restrict the number of vouchers they will accept or simply bow out all together.

Yea a private school isn't going to take a troubled kid that's true. I'm sure it's easier teaching private school kids.

Which could be why some private schools can pay less than public schools.

Okay, so I hope everyone can follow me here. I am going to write about how much teachers should be paid, but not from my own perspective. I believe teachers deserve high pay for a multitude of reasons, I just want to clarify that. But let's, for a second, assume I am the kind of person who says "Teachers jobs are easy, they get summers off, they're just glorified babysitters" and the work we all know teachers need to take home doesn't count.

Let's assume we pay teachers less than what I was paid to babysit in high school. So give them...$4/hour. Let's only pay them for the hours they are in school - let's say 6.5 hours a day. That brings their daily pay to $26.

But teachers don't only teach one student. Let's say the teacher teaches 30 students. Every parent should pay $26 a day for their child to be "babysat" and at thirty students that comes out to $780/day.

Now, 5 day school week brings that to $3,900 a week.
Or, if you want to figure in days, let's say they work 180 days a year (meaning no paid vacations) $780/day for 180 days = $140,000.

The average teacher salary tends to hover between $50,000 - $60,000. So, on the high end of that spectrum, let's figure out how much teachers make per hour per child:
$60,000/180 days = $333.33/day. $333.33 per day/30 students = $11.11 per student per day. Figure in the 6.5 hours and that's $1.71 per hour per student.



So teachers get paid more than they do on average, even in my fictional scenario, where we pay teachers less per hour per child than the average babysitter, and don't pay them for any of the additional work they need to do outside of school hours, and give them no vacation pay.

All garbage.

First off, my parents are millionaires. And they were both public school teachers. Not only did both of them earn six-figure incomes by the end of their careers, but both of them went back to work after retiring, earning a full salary, plus their retirement.

"I believe teachers deserve high pay for a multitude of reasons"

No, 'teachers' do not deserve high pay. Good teachers, excellent teachers, award winning teachers, deserve high pay.

The vast majority of teachers are marginal, and many are just flat out crap. I had a teacher that would monotone a lecture for 30 minutes, and teach almost nothing.

Had another teacher that would push a VHS tape in (remember those?), hit play, and give a 'pop' quiz at the end of every single class.

That was his idea of "teaching".

So no, I reject this 'teachers deserve more' craziness. We have the most expensive, and least productive government funded school systems in the world. Most teachers should be paid less. A few should earn what they are getting, and a very tiny group should be paid a ton more because they are amazingly good at what they do and should be compensated.

I think you're missing the point. We should not pay teachers more because they deserve it. We should pay teachers more because our kids and our nation desire it.

Most people go into education bypassing more lucrative fields because getting a degree in education is easier, jobs are more plentiful, and typically the jobs are more secure. This is not an environment that attacks our best people. There has to be changes and it all begins with better salaries but that's just for starters.

Teaching should be among our most honored professions. Teacher's education should be improved. School Districts need to spend a lot more money on the classroom and reducing pupil teacher ratios. There needs to be more incentives for teachers. But it all begins with better staff and that begins with better salaries and better education for teachers.

Old saying "He who can, does. He who cannot, teaches".

Most people bypass lucrative fields? You assume. Most can't hardly teach in their field, let alone be successful in the private sector.

You want to make that argument with me, show me the number of people who were in fact making 6-figure incomes or were extremely high in their field, and ditched it all to become a teacher. The number of those people is exceptionally small.

The rest of that is false. You look at spending per pupil, verses the quality of educational outcomes, and there is in inverse relationship. Here in Columbus Ohio, I compared relative spending per pupil, verses the 2nd year, and 4th year students. There was a clear connection between lower spending, and higher scores.

Equally I see no evidence that reduced class room sizes equals better educational outcomes.

A Libertarian Builds Low-Cost Private Schools for the Masses

You must have had a dumbass teacher if you believe that correlation equals causation.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Teachers would get more pay if 99 % of their tax budget was not all about paying pensions.

.....Like teachers are off from December 15 to Jan 7. ....

Like, whoever told you that was, like, lying to you.

This years holiday period starts today, December 21st and runs through January 6th. That's a full week less than what you said. Unkotare is right. Someone is lying to you. Either that, or you are telling a bald face lie.

 

[SweetSue92]

Okay, so I hope everyone can follow me here. I am going to write about how much teachers should be paid, but not from my own perspective. I believe teachers deserve high pay for a multitude of reasons, I just want to clarify that. But let's, for a second, assume I am the kind of person who says "Teachers jobs are easy, they get summers off, they're just glorified babysitters" and the work we all know teachers need to take home doesn't count.

Let's assume we pay teachers less than what I was paid to babysit in high school. So give them...$4/hour. Let's only pay them for the hours they are in school - let's say 6.5 hours a day. That brings their daily pay to $26.

But teachers don't only teach one student. Let's say the teacher teaches 30 students. Every parent should pay $26 a day for their child to be "babysat" and at thirty students that comes out to $780/day.

Now, 5 day school week brings that to $3,900 a week.
Or, if you want to figure in days, let's say they work 180 days a year (meaning no paid vacations) $780/day for 180 days = $140,000.

The average teacher salary tends to hover between $50,000 - $60,000. So, on the high end of that spectrum, let's figure out how much teachers make per hour per child:
$60,000/180 days = $333.33/day. $333.33 per day/30 students = $11.11 per student per day. Figure in the 6.5 hours and that's $1.71 per hour per student.



So teachers get paid more than they do on average, even in my fictional scenario, where we pay teachers less per hour per child than the average babysitter, and don't pay them for any of the additional work they need to do outside of school hours, and give them no vacation pay.

All garbage.

First off, my parents are millionaires. And they were both public school teachers. Not only did both of them earn six-figure incomes by the end of their careers, but both of them went back to work after retiring, earning a full salary, plus their retirement.

"I believe teachers deserve high pay for a multitude of reasons"

No, 'teachers' do not deserve high pay. Good teachers, excellent teachers, award winning teachers, deserve high pay.

The vast majority of teachers are marginal, and many are just flat out crap. I had a teacher that would monotone a lecture for 30 minutes, and teach almost nothing.

Had another teacher that would push a VHS tape in (remember those?), hit play, and give a 'pop' quiz at the end of every single class.

That was his idea of "teaching".

So no, I reject this 'teachers deserve more' craziness. We have the most expensive, and least productive government funded school systems in the world. Most teachers should be paid less. A few should earn what they are getting, and a very tiny group should be paid a ton more because they are amazingly good at what they do and should be compensated.

I think you're missing the point. We should not pay teachers more because they deserve it. We should pay teachers more because our kids and our nation desire it.

Most people go into education bypassing more lucrative fields because getting a degree in education is easier, jobs are more plentiful, and typically the jobs are more secure. This is not an environment that attacks our best people. There has to be changes and it all begins with better salaries but that's just for starters.

Teaching should be among our most honored professions. Teacher's education should be improved. School Districts need to spend a lot more money on the classroom and reducing pupil teacher ratios. There needs to be more incentives for teachers. But it all begins with better staff and that begins with better salaries and better education for teachers.

Old saying "He who can, does. He who cannot, teaches".

Most people bypass lucrative fields? You assume. Most can't hardly teach in their field, let alone be successful in the private sector.

You want to make that argument with me, show me the number of people who were in fact making 6-figure incomes or were extremely high in their field, and ditched it all to become a teacher. The number of those people is exceptionally small.

The rest of that is false. You look at spending per pupil, verses the quality of educational outcomes, and there is in inverse relationship. Here in Columbus Ohio, I compared relative spending per pupil, verses the 2nd year, and 4th year students. There was a clear connection between lower spending, and higher scores.

Equally I see no evidence that reduced class room sizes equals better educational outcomes.

A Libertarian Builds Low-Cost Private Schools for the Masses

You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[SweetSue92]

Okay, so I hope everyone can follow me here. I am going to write about how much teachers should be paid, but not from my own perspective. I believe teachers deserve high pay for a multitude of reasons, I just want to clarify that. But let's, for a second, assume I am the kind of person who says "Teachers jobs are easy, they get summers off, they're just glorified babysitters" and the work we all know teachers need to take home doesn't count.

Let's assume we pay teachers less than what I was paid to babysit in high school. So give them...$4/hour. Let's only pay them for the hours they are in school - let's say 6.5 hours a day. That brings their daily pay to $26.

But teachers don't only teach one student. Let's say the teacher teaches 30 students. Every parent should pay $26 a day for their child to be "babysat" and at thirty students that comes out to $780/day.

Now, 5 day school week brings that to $3,900 a week.
Or, if you want to figure in days, let's say they work 180 days a year (meaning no paid vacations) $780/day for 180 days = $140,000.

The average teacher salary tends to hover between $50,000 - $60,000. So, on the high end of that spectrum, let's figure out how much teachers make per hour per child:
$60,000/180 days = $333.33/day. $333.33 per day/30 students = $11.11 per student per day. Figure in the 6.5 hours and that's $1.71 per hour per student.



So teachers get paid more than they do on average, even in my fictional scenario, where we pay teachers less per hour per child than the average babysitter, and don't pay them for any of the additional work they need to do outside of school hours, and give them no vacation pay.

All garbage.

First off, my parents are millionaires. And they were both public school teachers. Not only did both of them earn six-figure incomes by the end of their careers, but both of them went back to work after retiring, earning a full salary, plus their retirement.

"I believe teachers deserve high pay for a multitude of reasons"

No, 'teachers' do not deserve high pay. Good teachers, excellent teachers, award winning teachers, deserve high pay.

The vast majority of teachers are marginal, and many are just flat out crap. I had a teacher that would monotone a lecture for 30 minutes, and teach almost nothing.

Had another teacher that would push a VHS tape in (remember those?), hit play, and give a 'pop' quiz at the end of every single class.

That was his idea of "teaching".

So no, I reject this 'teachers deserve more' craziness. We have the most expensive, and least productive government funded school systems in the world. Most teachers should be paid less. A few should earn what they are getting, and a very tiny group should be paid a ton more because they are amazingly good at what they do and should be compensated.

I think you're missing the point. We should not pay teachers more because they deserve it. We should pay teachers more because our kids and our nation desire it.

Most people go into education bypassing more lucrative fields because getting a degree in education is easier, jobs are more plentiful, and typically the jobs are more secure. This is not an environment that attacks our best people. There has to be changes and it all begins with better salaries but that's just for starters.

Teaching should be among our most honored professions. Teacher's education should be improved. School Districts need to spend a lot more money on the classroom and reducing pupil teacher ratios. There needs to be more incentives for teachers. But it all begins with better staff and that begins with better salaries and better education for teachers.

Old saying "He who can, does. He who cannot, teaches".

Most people bypass lucrative fields? You assume. Most can't hardly teach in their field, let alone be successful in the private sector.

You want to make that argument with me, show me the number of people who were in fact making 6-figure incomes or were extremely high in their field, and ditched it all to become a teacher. The number of those people is exceptionally small.

The rest of that is false. You look at spending per pupil, verses the quality of educational outcomes, and there is in inverse relationship. Here in Columbus Ohio, I compared relative spending per pupil, verses the 2nd year, and 4th year students. There was a clear connection between lower spending, and higher scores.

Equally I see no evidence that reduced class room sizes equals better educational outcomes.

A Libertarian Builds Low-Cost Private Schools for the Masses

I'm not buying that "most bypass lucrative fields" line either. If someone went to school and was cut out for marketing, they went into marketing. If they were talented enough to become a doctor they did. Engineering. Etc. If they were attracted to the business world maybe they went into HR or IT or whatever it is they were good at.

People who go into teaching have all these other degrees as options. They chose to be teachers because they didn't know what else they wanted to do. THey took 2 years of community college classes and then just like us they had a choice to make.

No one passed on a lucrative field because they were noble or righteous. Please don't tell me all the average teachers I know passed on lucrative fields because they were noble or righteous. That's just bullshit.

Just like sales is all I was ever really cut out to do, that's the only degree that they felt comfortable doing.

And when you graduate with a Marketing or HR degree you also have to figure out who's going to hire you when you have no experience. Teachers don't have to worry about that. They all get hired. That must play a role in why they pick teaching not to mention the job security.

You think in small terms, in limited terms, and if people don't think just like you, you can't imagine HOW they think.

Frankly, you would be a horrid teacher. And since you would be a horrid teacher, you really hate teachers and can't imagine why anyone would be one, except that it's "easy".