Why teachers need more pay

[sealybobo]

In NY you do.
In NY it’s almost impossible for a teacher to be fired.
They have a Rubber Room where you spend the rest of your career chilling.

Can you think of one other profession who complains how hard their job is and how under paid they are? I can't think of one.

Police tell us how hard their job is but not that they are under paid.

Dentists apparently commit suicide at a high rate for some reason. But they don't complain about the money.

Nurses I think have a right to complain. They don't make enough. No one in the hospital or old folks home does other than the doctors and owners. If anything we need to give our caregivers more money.

Teachers make what they should make.

How Much Money Does an Average Teacher Make a Year? According to the United States Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average annual salary for a teacher is approximately $55,000 per year. This means that half of all teachers in the country make more than this amount, and half make less.

Does anyone think public school teachers should make more? And I'm not asking public school teachers. Of course they think they should make more.

I'm sick of hearing how important their jobs are. My brother went off to MSU and got his masters. He almost failed out when he first went there. We went to a great public school where he was an A/B student. He wasn't prepared for college. He didn't know how to study. Our "great" public school in reality sucked. So today he pays $25K per kid to send them to private school. He said he succeeded DESPITE public school. His kids will go off to college and know how to study. BTW I almost failed out of college too. Public school teachers suck. Glorified baby sitters. They take credit for smart kids who would succeed regardless. I think they should be measured on the lowest performings tudents. We should be able to go look a their students 10 years later and see if they are successful.

And our public school was great compared to the Detroit Public School we came from. My 4th grade counselor in the white school we moved to said I basically learned nothing the first 4 years of school. So how much should a Detroit Public School teacher make? $40K a year at most. That's a lot of money for someone in Detroit and unfortunately the parents don't pay enough taxes to justify paying any more. If you don't like it, don't teach in Detroit or don't have kids in Detroit. Or send your kids to public school. If you can't afford that it's not our problem. You chose to have those kids.

Translation: I had a terrible experience and almost failed out of college. Therefore, all teachers suck.

You're not a comprehensive thinker. That's why you wouldn't make a great teacher. That why I wouldn't even give you until Wednesday.

Most of those whiners would not last until lunch time!

That could be true. But we aren't the kind of people who go into teaching. Many teachers are students who either missed/loved high school so much they wanted to go back.

Or they like kids so they want to teach kindergarten or 3rd grade.

Yea, I might not be the best babysitter. I might lose control of the class, or get fired for hitting a kid. But it doesn't seem like rocket science. Don't you do the same thing every year? So it should get easier every year. Maybe it gets boring after awhile or not challenging.

Trust me you teachers, we all go through this. We all hate our jobs. I know a cop, he can't wait to retire. Seems pretty easy to me and he makes pretty good money. Plus he has a pension coming. So he's just doing his time till he can quit and go get a real job and collect his pension.

My brother is a VP for a fortune 500 company. He wants them to fire him so he can get a year golden parachute. Can you imagine wanting to quit a job that pays over $500 a year? I'd take it in the ass every day for $500K a year. So would most people. Hell prostitutes take it in the ass every day for $100 bucks.

No, I wouldn't "take it in the a$$" every day for half a million dollars a year. This is only one aspect of my character that makes me a better teacher than you could ever DREAM of being. And has made me a better teacher for these 25 years than you could ever DREAM of being. Get that? Character, integrity, morals....you know, the stuff that makes people trust you with their CHILDREN. I'm not perfect. But money is not everything.

Clueless, you are, and so many others here. Honest to pete. I will say it: America so richly deserves the crop of teachers you have coming, because you don't care about what you've got.

Maranatha

I agree America does deserve everything that Republicans do to public schools. So do the teachers.

Senate Republicans are essentially defunding public schools to pay for private ones

Remember I don't have kids and my brother is wealthy. So you aren't fucking us by voting GOP. In fact you may help lower my property taxes by defunding public schools.

How do you want to pay teachers more while Trump and Betsy are defunding public schools? Do you have a brain? Just book smart.

The New Tax Law’s Subtle Subversion of Public Schools - The Atlantic


The Republican tax bill is a disaster for public schools
So please don't say teachers need to be paid more and then turn around and vote GOP. Makes you seem retarded.

 

[sealybobo]

The Republican tax bill punishes American families who use public schools

 

[jillian]

Okay, so I hope everyone can follow me here. I am going to write about how much teachers should be paid, but not from my own perspective. I believe teachers deserve high pay for a multitude of reasons, I just want to clarify that. But let's, for a second, assume I am the kind of person who says "Teachers jobs are easy, they get summers off, they're just glorified babysitters" and the work we all know teachers need to take home doesn't count.

Let's assume we pay teachers less than what I was paid to babysit in high school. So give them...$4/hour. Let's only pay them for the hours they are in school - let's say 6.5 hours a day. That brings their daily pay to $26.

But teachers don't only teach one student. Let's say the teacher teaches 30 students. Every parent should pay $26 a day for their child to be "babysat" and at thirty students that comes out to $780/day.

Now, 5 day school week brings that to $3,900 a week.
Or, if you want to figure in days, let's say they work 180 days a year (meaning no paid vacations) $780/day for 180 days = $140,000.

The average teacher salary tends to hover between $50,000 - $60,000. So, on the high end of that spectrum, let's figure out how much teachers make per hour per child:
$60,000/180 days = $333.33/day. $333.33 per day/30 students = $11.11 per student per day. Figure in the 6.5 hours and that's $1.71 per hour per student.



So teachers get paid more than they do on average, even in my fictional scenario, where we pay teachers less per hour per child than the average babysitter, and don't pay them for any of the additional work they need to do outside of school hours, and give them no vacation pay.

teachers should be paid more because if they aren't, we will continue to get people in the bottom percentile of their classes going into teaching.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Can you think of one other profession who complains how hard their job is and how under paid they are? I can't think of one.

Police tell us how hard their job is but not that they are under paid.

Dentists apparently commit suicide at a high rate for some reason. But they don't complain about the money.

Nurses I think have a right to complain. They don't make enough. No one in the hospital or old folks home does other than the doctors and owners. If anything we need to give our caregivers more money.

Teachers make what they should make.

How Much Money Does an Average Teacher Make a Year? According to the United States Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average annual salary for a teacher is approximately $55,000 per year. This means that half of all teachers in the country make more than this amount, and half make less.

Does anyone think public school teachers should make more? And I'm not asking public school teachers. Of course they think they should make more.

I'm sick of hearing how important their jobs are. My brother went off to MSU and got his masters. He almost failed out when he first went there. We went to a great public school where he was an A/B student. He wasn't prepared for college. He didn't know how to study. Our "great" public school in reality sucked. So today he pays $25K per kid to send them to private school. He said he succeeded DESPITE public school. His kids will go off to college and know how to study. BTW I almost failed out of college too. Public school teachers suck. Glorified baby sitters. They take credit for smart kids who would succeed regardless. I think they should be measured on the lowest performings tudents. We should be able to go look a their students 10 years later and see if they are successful.

And our public school was great compared to the Detroit Public School we came from. My 4th grade counselor in the white school we moved to said I basically learned nothing the first 4 years of school. So how much should a Detroit Public School teacher make? $40K a year at most. That's a lot of money for someone in Detroit and unfortunately the parents don't pay enough taxes to justify paying any more. If you don't like it, don't teach in Detroit or don't have kids in Detroit. Or send your kids to public school. If you can't afford that it's not our problem. You chose to have those kids.

The NY Rubber Rooms are loaded with hundreds of teachers drawing 90+K a year with full benefits and waiting to retire and get their full benefits.
They get their raises every year plus raises for taking classes.
It’s a farce.

I believe you will find those people are awaiting adjudication of justification for their being fired. I also believe that is limited to NYC schools.

I would think that large Blue States have very powerful unions.

Yes, and we all know that blue states are in the majority if you throw in the major blue cities that are in red states.

The Atlanta test score cheating scandal says nothing about the hard working teachers outside of the blue dominated city, does it?

All of you that blame the woes of education on teacher's unions should really take a look at Texas. Why aren't they leading the nation in every category because they don't have a union? Could it be that the problems have NOTHING to do with the unions and all to do with the massive illegal immigrant population that does not assimilate into our culture and Mexican kids cannot handle the language, so they eventually drop out?

Why do you blame non-existent unions for the problems?

It is very possible that many states don’t have unions that can garner the perks of Blue State unions.
I guess I should have stated acquaintance as opposed to friend but a lot of people confide in me because I have proven over 50 years that what they tell me stays with me.

Possible? No, it is factual! Most other unions, where striking is outlawed, means they are toothless tigers, beholding to the good graces of the school boards when it comes to collective bargaining.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Okay, so I hope everyone can follow me here. I am going to write about how much teachers should be paid, but not from my own perspective. I believe teachers deserve high pay for a multitude of reasons, I just want to clarify that. But let's, for a second, assume I am the kind of person who says "Teachers jobs are easy, they get summers off, they're just glorified babysitters" and the work we all know teachers need to take home doesn't count.

Let's assume we pay teachers less than what I was paid to babysit in high school. So give them...$4/hour. Let's only pay them for the hours they are in school - let's say 6.5 hours a day. That brings their daily pay to $26.

But teachers don't only teach one student. Let's say the teacher teaches 30 students. Every parent should pay $26 a day for their child to be "babysat" and at thirty students that comes out to $780/day.

Now, 5 day school week brings that to $3,900 a week.
Or, if you want to figure in days, let's say they work 180 days a year (meaning no paid vacations) $780/day for 180 days = $140,000.

The average teacher salary tends to hover between $50,000 - $60,000. So, on the high end of that spectrum, let's figure out how much teachers make per hour per child:
$60,000/180 days = $333.33/day. $333.33 per day/30 students = $11.11 per student per day. Figure in the 6.5 hours and that's $1.71 per hour per student.



So teachers get paid more than they do on average, even in my fictional scenario, where we pay teachers less per hour per child than the average babysitter, and don't pay them for any of the additional work they need to do outside of school hours, and give them no vacation pay.

You got paid $4/hr to babysit when you were in high school? How old are you? The going rate when I was in high school was .50/hr, .75 after midnight.
I do agree, though, teachers should get much more pay than say, administrators. We have the whole thing bass-ackwards, if you ask me.

At GM, the guy who sweeps the floors gets paid more than the CEO. Got it!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Okay, so I hope everyone can follow me here. I am going to write about how much teachers should be paid, but not from my own perspective. I believe teachers deserve high pay for a multitude of reasons, I just want to clarify that. But let's, for a second, assume I am the kind of person who says "Teachers jobs are easy, they get summers off, they're just glorified babysitters" and the work we all know teachers need to take home doesn't count.

Let's assume we pay teachers less than what I was paid to babysit in high school. So give them...$4/hour. Let's only pay them for the hours they are in school - let's say 6.5 hours a day. That brings their daily pay to $26.

But teachers don't only teach one student. Let's say the teacher teaches 30 students. Every parent should pay $26 a day for their child to be "babysat" and at thirty students that comes out to $780/day.

Now, 5 day school week brings that to $3,900 a week.
Or, if you want to figure in days, let's say they work 180 days a year (meaning no paid vacations) $780/day for 180 days = $140,000.

The average teacher salary tends to hover between $50,000 - $60,000. So, on the high end of that spectrum, let's figure out how much teachers make per hour per child:
$60,000/180 days = $333.33/day. $333.33 per day/30 students = $11.11 per student per day. Figure in the 6.5 hours and that's $1.71 per hour per student.



So teachers get paid more than they do on average, even in my fictional scenario, where we pay teachers less per hour per child than the average babysitter, and don't pay them for any of the additional work they need to do outside of school hours, and give them no vacation pay.

The reason we should pay teachers more is because it's the best chance we have of making America a much greater nation than it is now. If you pay teachers as much as you pay engineers and scientists, you're going to get a lot better people and those people will eventually make it up the ranks of the system and become principals, directors, curriculum designers and even superintendents. Today school systems are force to take whatever teachers they can get when they should selecting the best of the best.

You will not have the best educational system in the world without the best people. It's that simple.

People point to the fact that there are nations which have much better test scores than US schools but are not paying high salaries. However, it you look at those systems, they will never be adopted in the US. We will never force children out of school in the 8th grade because they don't have high enough scores for high school. We will never centralize our education system because we want local control.

I agree. We are not recruiting the best of the best. Why would the best of the best go into teaching?

But please explain this to me. So you are saying that someone who successfully graduates with a bachelor degree in education isn’t qualified to teach? How the hell did they graduate then?

I would think anyone who has a bachelor degree in education would be qualified and good at teaching. If you say they aren’t then that’s a great example of what’s wrong with our educational system

It's not a matter of the quality the education teachers get. It the quality of the people that go into education. Too many people go into education because it is an easier curriculum than most, and it's almost a guaranteed job. Even today, many women go into education because it's a good fit for someone who has family and needs to work.

Don't get me wrong, teaching is not an easy job but the fact is we need better teachers and to get better teachers we need better students going into education. That will allow schools to improve curriculum. It all depends on paying a better salary.

Let's be honest here, kiddies...the best and the brightest aren't becoming teachers! They're becoming doctors, lawyers & scientists. The dumber ones are becoming teachers or if they're ambitious...politicians!

Some of the best and brightest are not becoming teachers because it is a tough life, underpaid, and disrespected.

Those doctors, lawyers, and scientists don't work 14 hour days most of the time, and on weekends at home, get crappy salaries, and have threads bashing them on message boards!

 

[sealybobo]

Okay, so I hope everyone can follow me here. I am going to write about how much teachers should be paid, but not from my own perspective. I believe teachers deserve high pay for a multitude of reasons, I just want to clarify that. But let's, for a second, assume I am the kind of person who says "Teachers jobs are easy, they get summers off, they're just glorified babysitters" and the work we all know teachers need to take home doesn't count.

Let's assume we pay teachers less than what I was paid to babysit in high school. So give them...$4/hour. Let's only pay them for the hours they are in school - let's say 6.5 hours a day. That brings their daily pay to $26.

But teachers don't only teach one student. Let's say the teacher teaches 30 students. Every parent should pay $26 a day for their child to be "babysat" and at thirty students that comes out to $780/day.

Now, 5 day school week brings that to $3,900 a week.
Or, if you want to figure in days, let's say they work 180 days a year (meaning no paid vacations) $780/day for 180 days = $140,000.

The average teacher salary tends to hover between $50,000 - $60,000. So, on the high end of that spectrum, let's figure out how much teachers make per hour per child:
$60,000/180 days = $333.33/day. $333.33 per day/30 students = $11.11 per student per day. Figure in the 6.5 hours and that's $1.71 per hour per student.



So teachers get paid more than they do on average, even in my fictional scenario, where we pay teachers less per hour per child than the average babysitter, and don't pay them for any of the additional work they need to do outside of school hours, and give them no vacation pay.

The reason we should pay teachers more is because it's the best chance we have of making America a much greater nation than it is now. If you pay teachers as much as you pay engineers and scientists, you're going to get a lot better people and those people will eventually make it up the ranks of the system and become principals, directors, curriculum designers and even superintendents. Today school systems are force to take whatever teachers they can get when they should selecting the best of the best.

You will not have the best educational system in the world without the best people. It's that simple.

People point to the fact that there are nations which have much better test scores than US schools but are not paying high salaries. However, it you look at those systems, they will never be adopted in the US. We will never force children out of school in the 8th grade because they don't have high enough scores for high school. We will never centralize our education system because we want local control.

I agree. We are not recruiting the best of the best. Why would the best of the best go into teaching?

But please explain this to me. So you are saying that someone who successfully graduates with a bachelor degree in education isn’t qualified to teach? How the hell did they graduate then?

I would think anyone who has a bachelor degree in education would be qualified and good at teaching. If you say they aren’t then that’s a great example of what’s wrong with our educational system

It's not a matter of the quality the education teachers get. It the quality of the people that go into education. Too many people go into education because it is an easier curriculum than most, and it's almost a guaranteed job. Even today, many women go into education because it's a good fit for someone who has family and needs to work.

Don't get me wrong, teaching is not an easy job but the fact is we need better teachers and to get better teachers we need better students going into education. That will allow schools to improve curriculum. It all depends on paying a better salary.

Let's be honest here, kiddies...the best and the brightest aren't becoming teachers! They're becoming doctors, lawyers & scientists. The dumber ones are becoming teachers or if they're ambitious...politicians!

Some of the best and brightest are not becoming teachers because it is a tough life, underpaid, and disrespected.

Those doctors, lawyers, and scientists don't work 14 hour days most of the time, and on weekends at home, get crappy salaries, and have threads bashing them on message boards!

I would never bash teachers but on this thread we have 2 or 3 Republican teachers who want respect from us all the while voting GOP who clearly have no respect for them.

It's like a GM worker who's in a union, has job security and making great pay voting Republican. A lot of them did that. They vote Republican. So for these idiots I don't feel bad watching the GOP break unions and reneg on pensions. Even still these Republicans will blame Democrats for whatever happens. Always spin.

MAGA

GM is closing plants. Now its CEO has to explain why to Congress - CNN

 

[sealybobo]

Okay, so I hope everyone can follow me here. I am going to write about how much teachers should be paid, but not from my own perspective. I believe teachers deserve high pay for a multitude of reasons, I just want to clarify that. But let's, for a second, assume I am the kind of person who says "Teachers jobs are easy, they get summers off, they're just glorified babysitters" and the work we all know teachers need to take home doesn't count.

Let's assume we pay teachers less than what I was paid to babysit in high school. So give them...$4/hour. Let's only pay them for the hours they are in school - let's say 6.5 hours a day. That brings their daily pay to $26.

But teachers don't only teach one student. Let's say the teacher teaches 30 students. Every parent should pay $26 a day for their child to be "babysat" and at thirty students that comes out to $780/day.

Now, 5 day school week brings that to $3,900 a week.
Or, if you want to figure in days, let's say they work 180 days a year (meaning no paid vacations) $780/day for 180 days = $140,000.

The average teacher salary tends to hover between $50,000 - $60,000. So, on the high end of that spectrum, let's figure out how much teachers make per hour per child:
$60,000/180 days = $333.33/day. $333.33 per day/30 students = $11.11 per student per day. Figure in the 6.5 hours and that's $1.71 per hour per student.



So teachers get paid more than they do on average, even in my fictional scenario, where we pay teachers less per hour per child than the average babysitter, and don't pay them for any of the additional work they need to do outside of school hours, and give them no vacation pay.

The reason we should pay teachers more is because it's the best chance we have of making America a much greater nation than it is now. If you pay teachers as much as you pay engineers and scientists, you're going to get a lot better people and those people will eventually make it up the ranks of the system and become principals, directors, curriculum designers and even superintendents. Today school systems are force to take whatever teachers they can get when they should selecting the best of the best.

You will not have the best educational system in the world without the best people. It's that simple.

People point to the fact that there are nations which have much better test scores than US schools but are not paying high salaries. However, it you look at those systems, they will never be adopted in the US. We will never force children out of school in the 8th grade because they don't have high enough scores for high school. We will never centralize our education system because we want local control.

I agree. We are not recruiting the best of the best. Why would the best of the best go into teaching?

But please explain this to me. So you are saying that someone who successfully graduates with a bachelor degree in education isn’t qualified to teach? How the hell did they graduate then?

I would think anyone who has a bachelor degree in education would be qualified and good at teaching. If you say they aren’t then that’s a great example of what’s wrong with our educational system

It's not a matter of the quality the education teachers get. It the quality of the people that go into education. Too many people go into education because it is an easier curriculum than most, and it's almost a guaranteed job. Even today, many women go into education because it's a good fit for someone who has family and needs to work.

Don't get me wrong, teaching is not an easy job but the fact is we need better teachers and to get better teachers we need better students going into education. That will allow schools to improve curriculum. It all depends on paying a better salary.

Let's be honest here, kiddies...the best and the brightest aren't becoming teachers! They're becoming doctors, lawyers & scientists. The dumber ones are becoming teachers or if they're ambitious...politicians!

Some of the best and brightest are not becoming teachers because it is a tough life, underpaid, and disrespected.

Those doctors, lawyers, and scientists don't work 14 hour days most of the time, and on weekends at home, get crappy salaries, and have threads bashing them on message boards!

All the teachers I know are making more than the national average as far as how much people make in America. We are all getting sick of hearing teachers talk about how hard they work and how underpaid they are. Name one other profession that complains this much. You can't. I think it has to do with being in unions. They have the power to complain until they get raises. COLLECTIVELY. So of course they are always crying about how underpaid they are and overworked. They have another contract coming up so it helps them negotiate.

Most of us who don't benefit from collective bargaining don't have anyone to complain to. The guy working next to me might be making more than me. Maybe if you guys lost your unions then each of you could negotiate your own wages. If you are good, they'll pay it. If not, get another job. Isn't that the Republican way? Aren't you a republican?

 

[Oldstyle]

Okay, so I hope everyone can follow me here. I am going to write about how much teachers should be paid, but not from my own perspective. I believe teachers deserve high pay for a multitude of reasons, I just want to clarify that. But let's, for a second, assume I am the kind of person who says "Teachers jobs are easy, they get summers off, they're just glorified babysitters" and the work we all know teachers need to take home doesn't count.

Let's assume we pay teachers less than what I was paid to babysit in high school. So give them...$4/hour. Let's only pay them for the hours they are in school - let's say 6.5 hours a day. That brings their daily pay to $26.

But teachers don't only teach one student. Let's say the teacher teaches 30 students. Every parent should pay $26 a day for their child to be "babysat" and at thirty students that comes out to $780/day.

Now, 5 day school week brings that to $3,900 a week.
Or, if you want to figure in days, let's say they work 180 days a year (meaning no paid vacations) $780/day for 180 days = $140,000.

The average teacher salary tends to hover between $50,000 - $60,000. So, on the high end of that spectrum, let's figure out how much teachers make per hour per child:
$60,000/180 days = $333.33/day. $333.33 per day/30 students = $11.11 per student per day. Figure in the 6.5 hours and that's $1.71 per hour per student.



So teachers get paid more than they do on average, even in my fictional scenario, where we pay teachers less per hour per child than the average babysitter, and don't pay them for any of the additional work they need to do outside of school hours, and give them no vacation pay.

The reason we should pay teachers more is because it's the best chance we have of making America a much greater nation than it is now. If you pay teachers as much as you pay engineers and scientists, you're going to get a lot better people and those people will eventually make it up the ranks of the system and become principals, directors, curriculum designers and even superintendents. Today school systems are force to take whatever teachers they can get when they should selecting the best of the best.

You will not have the best educational system in the world without the best people. It's that simple.

People point to the fact that there are nations which have much better test scores than US schools but are not paying high salaries. However, it you look at those systems, they will never be adopted in the US. We will never force children out of school in the 8th grade because they don't have high enough scores for high school. We will never centralize our education system because we want local control.

I agree. We are not recruiting the best of the best. Why would the best of the best go into teaching?

But please explain this to me. So you are saying that someone who successfully graduates with a bachelor degree in education isn’t qualified to teach? How the hell did they graduate then?

I would think anyone who has a bachelor degree in education would be qualified and good at teaching. If you say they aren’t then that’s a great example of what’s wrong with our educational system

It's not a matter of the quality the education teachers get. It the quality of the people that go into education. Too many people go into education because it is an easier curriculum than most, and it's almost a guaranteed job. Even today, many women go into education because it's a good fit for someone who has family and needs to work.

Don't get me wrong, teaching is not an easy job but the fact is we need better teachers and to get better teachers we need better students going into education. That will allow schools to improve curriculum. It all depends on paying a better salary.

Let's be honest here, kiddies...the best and the brightest aren't becoming teachers! They're becoming doctors, lawyers & scientists. The dumber ones are becoming teachers or if they're ambitious...politicians!

Some of the best and brightest are not becoming teachers because it is a tough life, underpaid, and disrespected.

Those doctors, lawyers, and scientists don't work 14 hour days most of the time, and on weekends at home, get crappy salaries, and have threads bashing them on message boards!

You don't know many doctors, lawyers or scientists, Admiral! They DO work long hours.

 

[Flopper]

The reason we should pay teachers more is because it's the best chance we have of making America a much greater nation than it is now. If you pay teachers as much as you pay engineers and scientists, you're going to get a lot better people and those people will eventually make it up the ranks of the system and become principals, directors, curriculum designers and even superintendents. Today school systems are force to take whatever teachers they can get when they should selecting the best of the best.

You will not have the best educational system in the world without the best people. It's that simple.

People point to the fact that there are nations which have much better test scores than US schools but are not paying high salaries. However, it you look at those systems, they will never be adopted in the US. We will never force children out of school in the 8th grade because they don't have high enough scores for high school. We will never centralize our education system because we want local control.

I agree. We are not recruiting the best of the best. Why would the best of the best go into teaching?

But please explain this to me. So you are saying that someone who successfully graduates with a bachelor degree in education isn’t qualified to teach? How the hell did they graduate then?

I would think anyone who has a bachelor degree in education would be qualified and good at teaching. If you say they aren’t then that’s a great example of what’s wrong with our educational system

It's not a matter of the quality the education teachers get. It the quality of the people that go into education. Too many people go into education because it is an easier curriculum than most, and it's almost a guaranteed job. Even today, many women go into education because it's a good fit for someone who has family and needs to work.

Don't get me wrong, teaching is not an easy job but the fact is we need better teachers and to get better teachers we need better students going into education. That will allow schools to improve curriculum. It all depends on paying a better salary.

Let's be honest here, kiddies...the best and the brightest aren't becoming teachers! They're becoming doctors, lawyers & scientists. The dumber ones are becoming teachers or if they're ambitious...politicians!

Some of the best and brightest are not becoming teachers because it is a tough life, underpaid, and disrespected.

Those doctors, lawyers, and scientists don't work 14 hour days most of the time, and on weekends at home, get crappy salaries, and have threads bashing them on message boards!

All the teachers I know are making more than the national average as far as how much people make in America. We are all getting sick of hearing teachers talk about how hard they work and how underpaid they are. Name one other profession that complains this much. You can't. I think it has to do with being in unions. They have the power to complain until they get raises. COLLECTIVELY. So of course they are always crying about how underpaid they are and overworked. They have another contract coming up so it helps them negotiate.

Most of us who don't benefit from collective bargaining don't have anyone to complain to. The guy working next to me might be making more than me. Maybe if you guys lost your unions then each of you could negotiate your own wages. If you are good, they'll pay it. If not, get another job. Isn't that the Republican way? Aren't you a republican?

What do mean makes more than the national average. The average worker in the US has a high school degree and about 1 year of college. There experience level in their field is 4 years. The average worker in the US reports they average 47 hours a week of work.

The average teacher has a post graduate degree, has 14 years experience and works 53 hours a week.
Who is the Average U.S. Teacher? - NEA Today

 

[Indeependent]

I agree. We are not recruiting the best of the best. Why would the best of the best go into teaching?

But please explain this to me. So you are saying that someone who successfully graduates with a bachelor degree in education isn’t qualified to teach? How the hell did they graduate then?

I would think anyone who has a bachelor degree in education would be qualified and good at teaching. If you say they aren’t then that’s a great example of what’s wrong with our educational system

It's not a matter of the quality the education teachers get. It the quality of the people that go into education. Too many people go into education because it is an easier curriculum than most, and it's almost a guaranteed job. Even today, many women go into education because it's a good fit for someone who has family and needs to work.

Don't get me wrong, teaching is not an easy job but the fact is we need better teachers and to get better teachers we need better students going into education. That will allow schools to improve curriculum. It all depends on paying a better salary.

Let's be honest here, kiddies...the best and the brightest aren't becoming teachers! They're becoming doctors, lawyers & scientists. The dumber ones are becoming teachers or if they're ambitious...politicians!

Some of the best and brightest are not becoming teachers because it is a tough life, underpaid, and disrespected.

Those doctors, lawyers, and scientists don't work 14 hour days most of the time, and on weekends at home, get crappy salaries, and have threads bashing them on message boards!

All the teachers I know are making more than the national average as far as how much people make in America. We are all getting sick of hearing teachers talk about how hard they work and how underpaid they are. Name one other profession that complains this much. You can't. I think it has to do with being in unions. They have the power to complain until they get raises. COLLECTIVELY. So of course they are always crying about how underpaid they are and overworked. They have another contract coming up so it helps them negotiate.

Most of us who don't benefit from collective bargaining don't have anyone to complain to. The guy working next to me might be making more than me. Maybe if you guys lost your unions then each of you could negotiate your own wages. If you are good, they'll pay it. If not, get another job. Isn't that the Republican way? Aren't you a republican?

What do mean makes more than the national average. The average worker in the US has a high school degree and about 1 year of college. There experience level in their field is 4 years. The average worker in the US reports they average 47 hours a week of work.

The average teacher has a post graduate degree, has 14 years experience and works 53 hours a week.
Who is the Average U.S. Teacher? - NEA Today

Give me a break.
I know a few dozen teachers and they never took chemistry, physics or advanced algebra.
My kids went to private schools where the teachers had hard science degrees.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

The reason we should pay teachers more is because it's the best chance we have of making America a much greater nation than it is now. If you pay teachers as much as you pay engineers and scientists, you're going to get a lot better people and those people will eventually make it up the ranks of the system and become principals, directors, curriculum designers and even superintendents. Today school systems are force to take whatever teachers they can get when they should selecting the best of the best.

You will not have the best educational system in the world without the best people. It's that simple.

People point to the fact that there are nations which have much better test scores than US schools but are not paying high salaries. However, it you look at those systems, they will never be adopted in the US. We will never force children out of school in the 8th grade because they don't have high enough scores for high school. We will never centralize our education system because we want local control.

I agree. We are not recruiting the best of the best. Why would the best of the best go into teaching?

But please explain this to me. So you are saying that someone who successfully graduates with a bachelor degree in education isn’t qualified to teach? How the hell did they graduate then?

I would think anyone who has a bachelor degree in education would be qualified and good at teaching. If you say they aren’t then that’s a great example of what’s wrong with our educational system

It's not a matter of the quality the education teachers get. It the quality of the people that go into education. Too many people go into education because it is an easier curriculum than most, and it's almost a guaranteed job. Even today, many women go into education because it's a good fit for someone who has family and needs to work.

Don't get me wrong, teaching is not an easy job but the fact is we need better teachers and to get better teachers we need better students going into education. That will allow schools to improve curriculum. It all depends on paying a better salary.

Let's be honest here, kiddies...the best and the brightest aren't becoming teachers! They're becoming doctors, lawyers & scientists. The dumber ones are becoming teachers or if they're ambitious...politicians!

Some of the best and brightest are not becoming teachers because it is a tough life, underpaid, and disrespected.

Those doctors, lawyers, and scientists don't work 14 hour days most of the time, and on weekends at home, get crappy salaries, and have threads bashing them on message boards!

You don't know many doctors, lawyers or scientists, Admiral! They DO work long hours.

Compared to most teachers, no they don't!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

It's not a matter of the quality the education teachers get. It the quality of the people that go into education. Too many people go into education because it is an easier curriculum than most, and it's almost a guaranteed job. Even today, many women go into education because it's a good fit for someone who has family and needs to work.

Don't get me wrong, teaching is not an easy job but the fact is we need better teachers and to get better teachers we need better students going into education. That will allow schools to improve curriculum. It all depends on paying a better salary.

Let's be honest here, kiddies...the best and the brightest aren't becoming teachers! They're becoming doctors, lawyers & scientists. The dumber ones are becoming teachers or if they're ambitious...politicians!

Some of the best and brightest are not becoming teachers because it is a tough life, underpaid, and disrespected.

Those doctors, lawyers, and scientists don't work 14 hour days most of the time, and on weekends at home, get crappy salaries, and have threads bashing them on message boards!

All the teachers I know are making more than the national average as far as how much people make in America. We are all getting sick of hearing teachers talk about how hard they work and how underpaid they are. Name one other profession that complains this much. You can't. I think it has to do with being in unions. They have the power to complain until they get raises. COLLECTIVELY. So of course they are always crying about how underpaid they are and overworked. They have another contract coming up so it helps them negotiate.

Most of us who don't benefit from collective bargaining don't have anyone to complain to. The guy working next to me might be making more than me. Maybe if you guys lost your unions then each of you could negotiate your own wages. If you are good, they'll pay it. If not, get another job. Isn't that the Republican way? Aren't you a republican?

What do mean makes more than the national average. The average worker in the US has a high school degree and about 1 year of college. There experience level in their field is 4 years. The average worker in the US reports they average 47 hours a week of work.

The average teacher has a post graduate degree, has 14 years experience and works 53 hours a week.
Who is the Average U.S. Teacher? - NEA Today

Give me a break.
I know a few dozen teachers and they never took chemistry, physics or advanced algebra.
My kids went to private schools where the teachers had hard science degrees.

Your deflection is noted. He never said anything of the sort.

Well, your few dozen teachers would be breaking the law in most states. If they did not take advanced algebra, even as an English teacher they would likely fail one of the required tests in Florida. I tutored adults in math so they could pass the exam.

Yoru private school teacher made even less than most public school teachers where I taught. They were all dying to get a chance to teach in public schools if they could pass the certification requirements that their private schools never required.

All you education and teacher bashers show is that your anecdotal evidence is either a lie or you got it wrong!

 

[sealybobo]

Let's be honest here, kiddies...the best and the brightest aren't becoming teachers! They're becoming doctors, lawyers & scientists. The dumber ones are becoming teachers or if they're ambitious...politicians!

Some of the best and brightest are not becoming teachers because it is a tough life, underpaid, and disrespected.

Those doctors, lawyers, and scientists don't work 14 hour days most of the time, and on weekends at home, get crappy salaries, and have threads bashing them on message boards!

All the teachers I know are making more than the national average as far as how much people make in America. We are all getting sick of hearing teachers talk about how hard they work and how underpaid they are. Name one other profession that complains this much. You can't. I think it has to do with being in unions. They have the power to complain until they get raises. COLLECTIVELY. So of course they are always crying about how underpaid they are and overworked. They have another contract coming up so it helps them negotiate.

Most of us who don't benefit from collective bargaining don't have anyone to complain to. The guy working next to me might be making more than me. Maybe if you guys lost your unions then each of you could negotiate your own wages. If you are good, they'll pay it. If not, get another job. Isn't that the Republican way? Aren't you a republican?

What do mean makes more than the national average. The average worker in the US has a high school degree and about 1 year of college. There experience level in their field is 4 years. The average worker in the US reports they average 47 hours a week of work.

The average teacher has a post graduate degree, has 14 years experience and works 53 hours a week.
Who is the Average U.S. Teacher? - NEA Today

Give me a break.
I know a few dozen teachers and they never took chemistry, physics or advanced algebra.
My kids went to private schools where the teachers had hard science degrees.

Your deflection is noted. He never said anything of the sort.

Well, your few dozen teachers would be breaking the law in most states. If they did not take advanced algebra, even as an English teacher they would likely fail one of the required tests in Florida. I tutored adults in math so they could pass the exam.

Yoru private school teacher made even less than most public school teachers where I taught. They were all dying to get a chance to teach in public schools if they could pass the certification requirements that their private schools never required.

All you education and teacher bashers show is that your anecdotal evidence is either a lie or you got it wrong!

So private schools don’t have a problem finding teachers and they make less.

And those private school teachers are dying to get jobs in public schools?

This doesn’t sound like public school teachers are underpaid.

 

[Unkotare]

I agree. We are not recruiting the best of the best. Why would the best of the best go into teaching?

But please explain this to me. So you are saying that someone who successfully graduates with a bachelor degree in education isn’t qualified to teach? How the hell did they graduate then?

I would think anyone who has a bachelor degree in education would be qualified and good at teaching. If you say they aren’t then that’s a great example of what’s wrong with our educational system

It's not a matter of the quality the education teachers get. It the quality of the people that go into education. Too many people go into education because it is an easier curriculum than most, and it's almost a guaranteed job. Even today, many women go into education because it's a good fit for someone who has family and needs to work.

Don't get me wrong, teaching is not an easy job but the fact is we need better teachers and to get better teachers we need better students going into education. That will allow schools to improve curriculum. It all depends on paying a better salary.

Let's be honest here, kiddies...the best and the brightest aren't becoming teachers! They're becoming doctors, lawyers & scientists. The dumber ones are becoming teachers or if they're ambitious...politicians!

Some of the best and brightest are not becoming teachers because it is a tough life, underpaid, and disrespected.

Those doctors, lawyers, and scientists don't work 14 hour days most of the time, and on weekends at home, get crappy salaries, and have threads bashing them on message boards!

You don't know many doctors, lawyers or scientists, Admiral! They DO work long hours.

Compared to most teachers, no they don't!

Now you’re being as ignorant as the ed bashers.

 

[Indeependent]

Let's be honest here, kiddies...the best and the brightest aren't becoming teachers! They're becoming doctors, lawyers & scientists. The dumber ones are becoming teachers or if they're ambitious...politicians!

Some of the best and brightest are not becoming teachers because it is a tough life, underpaid, and disrespected.

Those doctors, lawyers, and scientists don't work 14 hour days most of the time, and on weekends at home, get crappy salaries, and have threads bashing them on message boards!

All the teachers I know are making more than the national average as far as how much people make in America. We are all getting sick of hearing teachers talk about how hard they work and how underpaid they are. Name one other profession that complains this much. You can't. I think it has to do with being in unions. They have the power to complain until they get raises. COLLECTIVELY. So of course they are always crying about how underpaid they are and overworked. They have another contract coming up so it helps them negotiate.

Most of us who don't benefit from collective bargaining don't have anyone to complain to. The guy working next to me might be making more than me. Maybe if you guys lost your unions then each of you could negotiate your own wages. If you are good, they'll pay it. If not, get another job. Isn't that the Republican way? Aren't you a republican?

What do mean makes more than the national average. The average worker in the US has a high school degree and about 1 year of college. There experience level in their field is 4 years. The average worker in the US reports they average 47 hours a week of work.

The average teacher has a post graduate degree, has 14 years experience and works 53 hours a week.
Who is the Average U.S. Teacher? - NEA Today

Give me a break.
I know a few dozen teachers and they never took chemistry, physics or advanced algebra.
My kids went to private schools where the teachers had hard science degrees.

Your deflection is noted. He never said anything of the sort.

Well, your few dozen teachers would be breaking the law in most states. If they did not take advanced algebra, even as an English teacher they would likely fail one of the required tests in Florida. I tutored adults in math so they could pass the exam.

Yoru private school teacher made even less than most public school teachers where I taught. They were all dying to get a chance to teach in public schools if they could pass the certification requirements that their private schools never required.

All you education and teacher bashers show is that your anecdotal evidence is either a lie or you got it wrong!

In NY, math teachers need not be math majors; it’s a a joke.

My main issue is they bitch regardless of their job security, salaries and benefits.
They behave like 2 year olds.

 

[Oldstyle]

I agree. We are not recruiting the best of the best. Why would the best of the best go into teaching?

But please explain this to me. So you are saying that someone who successfully graduates with a bachelor degree in education isn’t qualified to teach? How the hell did they graduate then?

I would think anyone who has a bachelor degree in education would be qualified and good at teaching. If you say they aren’t then that’s a great example of what’s wrong with our educational system

It's not a matter of the quality the education teachers get. It the quality of the people that go into education. Too many people go into education because it is an easier curriculum than most, and it's almost a guaranteed job. Even today, many women go into education because it's a good fit for someone who has family and needs to work.

Don't get me wrong, teaching is not an easy job but the fact is we need better teachers and to get better teachers we need better students going into education. That will allow schools to improve curriculum. It all depends on paying a better salary.

Let's be honest here, kiddies...the best and the brightest aren't becoming teachers! They're becoming doctors, lawyers & scientists. The dumber ones are becoming teachers or if they're ambitious...politicians!

Some of the best and brightest are not becoming teachers because it is a tough life, underpaid, and disrespected.

Those doctors, lawyers, and scientists don't work 14 hour days most of the time, and on weekends at home, get crappy salaries, and have threads bashing them on message boards!

All the teachers I know are making more than the national average as far as how much people make in America. We are all getting sick of hearing teachers talk about how hard they work and how underpaid they are. Name one other profession that complains this much. You can't. I think it has to do with being in unions. They have the power to complain until they get raises. COLLECTIVELY. So of course they are always crying about how underpaid they are and overworked. They have another contract coming up so it helps them negotiate.

Most of us who don't benefit from collective bargaining don't have anyone to complain to. The guy working next to me might be making more than me. Maybe if you guys lost your unions then each of you could negotiate your own wages. If you are good, they'll pay it. If not, get another job. Isn't that the Republican way? Aren't you a republican?

What do mean makes more than the national average. The average worker in the US has a high school degree and about 1 year of college. There experience level in their field is 4 years. The average worker in the US reports they average 47 hours a week of work.

The average teacher has a post graduate degree, has 14 years experience and works 53 hours a week.
Who is the Average U.S. Teacher? - NEA Today

Does the average teacher have a post graduate degree because it greatly enhances their ability to teach their students...or do they have that Masters because getting it means they receive a lot more pay?

 

[DGS49]

In Pennsylvania, in order to get a permanent certification, it is necessary to have thirty (30) post-graduate credits. Many universities tailor a "Masters Degree" program to solicit this business from teachers. "With a few more credits than you are required to get anyway, you can have a Master's Degree!"

But these degrees are a joke. No comprehensive exam, no thesis, and most of the courses are "methods" or "survey" courses in the undergrad curriculum.

But the premium in pay for a Masters is relatively minor anyway.

Also, in order to teach math or science in most cases, it is only necessary to have 12 college credits in the subject, not to have majored in it. Very few people with hard science degrees go into teaching.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Some of the best and brightest are not becoming teachers because it is a tough life, underpaid, and disrespected.

Those doctors, lawyers, and scientists don't work 14 hour days most of the time, and on weekends at home, get crappy salaries, and have threads bashing them on message boards!

All the teachers I know are making more than the national average as far as how much people make in America. We are all getting sick of hearing teachers talk about how hard they work and how underpaid they are. Name one other profession that complains this much. You can't. I think it has to do with being in unions. They have the power to complain until they get raises. COLLECTIVELY. So of course they are always crying about how underpaid they are and overworked. They have another contract coming up so it helps them negotiate.

Most of us who don't benefit from collective bargaining don't have anyone to complain to. The guy working next to me might be making more than me. Maybe if you guys lost your unions then each of you could negotiate your own wages. If you are good, they'll pay it. If not, get another job. Isn't that the Republican way? Aren't you a republican?

What do mean makes more than the national average. The average worker in the US has a high school degree and about 1 year of college. There experience level in their field is 4 years. The average worker in the US reports they average 47 hours a week of work.

The average teacher has a post graduate degree, has 14 years experience and works 53 hours a week.
Who is the Average U.S. Teacher? - NEA Today

Give me a break.
I know a few dozen teachers and they never took chemistry, physics or advanced algebra.
My kids went to private schools where the teachers had hard science degrees.

Your deflection is noted. He never said anything of the sort.

Well, your few dozen teachers would be breaking the law in most states. If they did not take advanced algebra, even as an English teacher they would likely fail one of the required tests in Florida. I tutored adults in math so they could pass the exam.

Yoru private school teacher made even less than most public school teachers where I taught. They were all dying to get a chance to teach in public schools if they could pass the certification requirements that their private schools never required.

All you education and teacher bashers show is that your anecdotal evidence is either a lie or you got it wrong!

In NY, math teachers need not be math majors; it’s a a joke.

My main issue is they bitch regardless of their job security, salaries and benefits.
They behave like 2 year olds.

I taught math without a degree but I had to pass the same test because I went to three different universities to get the same coursework. I knew math better than the teachers with math degrees.

Passing the test is required even if you have a degree.

 

[sealybobo]

It's not a matter of the quality the education teachers get. It the quality of the people that go into education. Too many people go into education because it is an easier curriculum than most, and it's almost a guaranteed job. Even today, many women go into education because it's a good fit for someone who has family and needs to work.

Don't get me wrong, teaching is not an easy job but the fact is we need better teachers and to get better teachers we need better students going into education. That will allow schools to improve curriculum. It all depends on paying a better salary.

Let's be honest here, kiddies...the best and the brightest aren't becoming teachers! They're becoming doctors, lawyers & scientists. The dumber ones are becoming teachers or if they're ambitious...politicians!

Some of the best and brightest are not becoming teachers because it is a tough life, underpaid, and disrespected.

Those doctors, lawyers, and scientists don't work 14 hour days most of the time, and on weekends at home, get crappy salaries, and have threads bashing them on message boards!

You don't know many doctors, lawyers or scientists, Admiral! They DO work long hours.

Compared to most teachers, no they don't!

Now you’re being as ignorant as the ed bashers.

I like what he said. I'll repeat it

Some of the best and brightest are not becoming teachers because it is a tough life, underpaid, and disrespected.

Those doctors, lawyers, and scientists don't work 14 hour days most of the time, and on weekends at home, get crappy salaries, and have threads bashing them on message boards!