Why would anyone continue to claim the iraqi war was a failure?

[JakeStarkey]

That invasion was an international crime, JRK. The UN did not authorize the USA to do so under any UN resolution

Yet another it's OK when the left does it standard. What were the resolutions for the following:

- Obama attacks Libya
- Obama continues the war in Iraq continuing Bush's timeline
- Obama escalates the war in Afghanistan
- Clinton attacks Kosovo
- Clinton attacks Afghanistan
- Clinton invades northern Iraq
- Clinton creates No Fly zones over Iraq
- Clinton attacks the Sudan
- Clinton invades Haiti
- Clinton continues the war in Somalia

You got an excuse other then your normal it's different, those were Democrats?

Iraq was not legal, Libya is, and the UN and NATO and the EU were in agreement. You have a problem with that? Neoconservatism does not only result in warcrimes, it is a mental illness.

 

[BlindBoo]

JRK is forging a mistruth, but he has failed at it here.

Starting with the fact that Dirty Bombs aren't WMD's, and that Uranium has to be enriched to 90% to be weapons grade.

oh boy you guys have become desperate to say the least
Defense.gov News Article: Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria, Official Says

Eactly what is it out of all of the items we have found sense invading is it that you people want?
dis agreeing with what this country decided to do in 2002 via the US congress is your right, mis representing the past is not

Once again, the Governement was not claiming Iraq was a threat because of:

"The munitions addressed in the report were produced in the 1980s, Maples said. Badly corroded, they could not currently be used as originally intended, Chu added."

Nope, they were claiming Iraq was actively producing and stockpiling large quantities of new weapons grades material. And was actively producing a atomic bomb.

 

[BlindBoo]

Ya OK, the US was so scared of Saddam's "yellow cake" that they had to invade and kill hundreds of thousands of iraqis who had no cake. Hmmm. Is this what passes for Yankee logic?

We invaded Iraq because Saddam had not adhered to Un resolutuion 1442
this was proved after the invasion when the yellow cake wass found and the 500 munitions as stated over and over here-in proved beyond a shadow of a doubt

The Yellow cake was aready known about pre invasion. SCR 1441 did not contain any provision for military action even if the inspectors found an active program or were hindered in their inspections. The only thing the SC agreed upon was to reconvine to decided what to do. Nothing was found.

 

[BlindBoo]

The 1993 WTC bombing was done with an Iraqi at the helm

The Un does not supercede the US senate when it comes to defending this country. Never has, never will
They were given years to clean uo that mess

The 2001 WTC bombings were orchestrated by 15 Saudis.

Their country has even more oil than Saddam's did.

The US Senate is bound by the same Constitution, laws and treaties (including the UN Charter) as the rest of America.

Since the UN Charter authorizes only two scenarios for going to war, and since the sovereign state of Iraq never attacked the US nor did the US obtain Security Council authorization for an invasion of Iraq, every crime committed in Iraq since March 2003 is a war crime.

my friend you are without doubt lost
If you think for one minute that this country is going to defend its borders only when the UN says we can you are badly mistaken
No where in our constitution will you find "and if the UN approves"

Look I hate to say this, but are you nuts?
The UN has nothing to do with how this country will ever defend it self

Iraq was not at our borders threatening an invasion, and they were not a significant threat to the worlds remaining super power. Nor were they involved with the 9-11 attacks, both are pre-requisites for authorization for military force in the act passed by congress. Granted either one was good enough but neither one was satisfied.

 

[Nic_Driver]

Quote: Originally Posted by JRK

my friend you are without doubt lost
If you think for one minute that this country is going to defend its borders only when the UN says we can you are badly mistaken
No where in our constitution will you find "and if the UN approves"

Then why do you keep using the UN as justification?

Your circular arguments are fallacious and have been firmly debunked.

 

[JRK]

Starting with the fact that Dirty Bombs aren't WMD's, and that Uranium has to be enriched to 90% to be weapons grade.

oh boy you guys have become desperate to say the least
Defense.gov News Article: Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria, Official Says

Eactly what is it out of all of the items we have found sense invading is it that you people want?
dis agreeing with what this country decided to do in 2002 via the US congress is your right, mis representing the past is not

Once again, the Governement was not claiming Iraq was a threat because of:

"The munitions addressed in the report were produced in the 1980s, Maples said. Badly corroded, they could not currently be used as originally intended, Chu added."

Nope, they were claiming Iraq was actively producing and stockpiling large quantities of new weapons grades material. And was actively producing a atomic bomb.

What part of declare and destroy dont you get?
The resolution did not state "if its just mustard gas in a badly corroded missile do not worry about it"
Or if it is yellow cake uranium that needs some more work done to it, its ok'

Where in denial do you put that? at what level

 

[JRK]

The 2001 WTC bombings were orchestrated by 15 Saudis.

Their country has even more oil than Saddam's did.

The US Senate is bound by the same Constitution, laws and treaties (including the UN Charter) as the rest of America.

Since the UN Charter authorizes only two scenarios for going to war, and since the sovereign state of Iraq never attacked the US nor did the US obtain Security Council authorization for an invasion of Iraq, every crime committed in Iraq since March 2003 is a war crime.

my friend you are without doubt lost
If you think for one minute that this country is going to defend its borders only when the UN says we can you are badly mistaken
No where in our constitution will you find "and if the UN approves"

Look I hate to say this, but are you nuts?
The UN has nothing to do with how this country will ever defend it self

Iraq was not at our borders threatening an invasion, and they were not a significant threat to the worlds remaining super power. Nor were they involved with the 9-11 attacks, both are pre-requisites for authorization for military force in the act passed by congress. Granted either one was good enough but neither one was satisfied.

NO THAT WAS NOT NOR DID HAVE ANY THING TO DO WITH A PRE INVASION
DO YOUR DD DAMN IT

THE VOTE
n a major victory for the White House, the Senate early Friday voted 77-23 to authorize President Bush to attack Iraq if Saddam Hussein refuses to give up weapons of mass destruction as required by U.N. resolutions.

Hours earlier, the House approved an identical resolution, 296-133.
Senate approves Iraq war resolution - CNN

THE SPEECH
UN weapons inspectors criticise Iraq - 27 January 2003 - New Scientist
Both inspectors asked for more time. "We should be able within the next few months to provide credible assurance that Iraq has no nuclear weapon programme," said El-Baradei.

Blix, however, emphasised that while Iraq has been cooperating with the inspections process, it has not provided enough "substantive" cooperation to allow the inspectors to resolve any of the unanswered questions about its chemical and biological weapons left over from previous inspections. "It is not enough just to open doors," he said.

As an example, Blix cited a document, found in a military safe by a weapons inspector in 1998, that showed that Iraq had consumed 13,000 rockets armed with chemical weapons during its war with Iran in the 1980s, not 19,500 as it declared. That document was snatched back by Iraqi officials at the time.

It has now been handed back and, Blix reported, it confirms that 6500 chemical rockets are unaccounted for. They could contain 1000 tonnes of chemical agents - including the nerve agent VX, whose production, Blix said, Iraq has also not fully accounted for. Similarly, Iraq has provided no proof that it destroyed all 8500 litres of anthrax it says it made before 1991, or proved it did not make more.

THE INVASION
3-2003

THE PROOF THAT IRAQ HAD NOT MEET THE UN MANDATE
Defense.gov News Article: Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria, Official Says
MORE PROOF THAT PUT THAT WAS NOT NEEDED, BUT IS HUGE
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080707/pl_afp/usiraqcanadauraniumnuclear_080707154601

Quote, July 7, 2008: "At Iraq's request, the US military this year transferred hundreds of metric tons of yellowcake uranium from Iraq to Canada in a secret, weeks-long operation, a Pentagon spokesman said Monday.

The 550 metric tons of uranium, which was sold to a Canadian company, was moved by truck convoy to Baghdad's "Green Zone," then flown by military aircraft to a third country where it was put on a ship for Canada, said Bryan Whitman, the spokesman.

The yellow cake was discovered by US troops after the 2003 US invasion of Iraq at the Tuwaitha Nuclear Research Facility south of Baghdad, and was placed under the control of the International Atomic Energy Agency."

..Again! more evidence that Saddam HAD materials for WMDs!

ALL those that yell "there were no WMD in Iraq", and that therefore the invasion was illegal of a crime etc are just WRONG!

This nuclear material was hidden from the UN inspectors, a clear violation of the UN sanctions and restrictions! ...never mind in addition to the many other things we also found after the invasion, example:

forbidden Iraqi Air Force planes buried in the sand at The al Taqqadum air field west of Baghdad in Iraq (posted photos:

 

[JRK]

Quote: Originally Posted by JRK

my friend you are without doubt lost
If you think for one minute that this country is going to defend its borders only when the UN says we can you are badly mistaken
No where in our constitution will you find "and if the UN approves"

Then why do you keep using the UN as justification?

Your circular arguments are fallacious and have been firmly debunked.

NOTHING HAS BEEN DE BUNKED
HOW DO YOU DE BUNK A VOTE IN THE SENATE?
HOW DO YOU DE-BUNK A SPEECH MADE IN JAN OF 2003 BY HANS BLIX?
HOW DO YOU DE-BUNK THE 500 MUNITIONS FOUND THAT MET THE DEFICITION OF WMD?
HOW DO YOU DE-BUNK THE YELLOW CAKE FOUND AFTER THE INVASION?

HERE TRY
Evidence of WMDs presence in Iraq. - a knol by Luis T. Puig
DOD: Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria « Sister Toldjah
UN weapons inspectors criticise Iraq - 27 January 2003 - New Scientist
Senate approves Iraq war resolution - CNN
YOU DEBUNK ANY OF THAT? THERE IT IS FOR YOU
SENATE VOTES
BLIX STATES IRAQ IS NOT COOPERATING AND HAS 1000S OF WMDS MISSING
WE INVADE 8 WEEKS LATER
DOD TELLS US SENATE, THEY LIED,, WE FOUND THEM, THEY ARE WMDS
WE FIND 550 METRIC TONS OF YELLOW CAKE
DEBUNK IT BUD OR SHUT UP
I AM TIRED OF YOUR LYING

 

[LilOlLady]

Iraq a Complete Failure for the United States
By Amitabh Pal
August 27, 2010

The United States is ending its combat mission in Iraq, leaving it in a complete mess. On virtually every count, the country is in the doldrums.
Iraq a Complete Failure for the United States | The Progressive
Why would anyone continue to claim the iraqi war was a failure?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1) REMOVE SADDAM
DONE
2) STABILIZE COUNTRY
DONE
3) HAVE A REPUBLIC BORN OF THESE EVENTS
DONE

Am missing something here?


(4) Why the fuck are we still there?

 

[LilOlLady]

Was it worth the loss of 5,000 young men and women? Was it worth the death of over a million innocent Iraqi men, women and children? The distructions of a country?
Hell no. Saddam was an assect to us in the fight against terrorism. Al Qaeda was not in Iraq before our invasion and occupation be cause Saddam would not allow it.
We have killed more Iraqis than Saddam did in all his time in power.

You don't know what success means.

 

[JRK]

Iraq a Complete Failure for the United States
By Amitabh Pal
August 27, 2010

The United States is ending its combat mission in Iraq, leaving it in a complete mess. On virtually every count, the country is in the doldrums.
Iraq a Complete Failure for the United States | The Progressive
Why would anyone continue to claim the iraqi war was a failure?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1) REMOVE SADDAM
DONE
2) STABILIZE COUNTRY
DONE
3) HAVE A REPUBLIC BORN OF THESE EVENTS
DONE

Am missing something here?


(4) Why the fuck are we still there?[/QUOTE

I did not read your link, its an opinion that I care nothing for
62% of the Iraqis voted in the last election, and as far as leaving it in a mess?
thats the first I heard that. If Iraq was being left in a mess then why is it Iraq is the one telling us to leave?
Approval by Iraqi Cabinet
On November 16, 2008, Iraq's Cabinet approved the agreement, which cited the end of 2009 for the pull out of US troops from Iraqi cities, and 2011 as the fixed deadline for removal of US military presence in country. US concessions involved a ban on U.S. forces searching and raiding homes without Iraqi approval, the right of Iraqis to search shipments of weapons and packages entering the country for U.S. recipients, and the right of Iraq's justice system to prosecute American troops for serious crimes under some circumstances. The vote was passed by 27 of the 37-member cabinet, of which nine members were absent and one opposing. The agreement then went before Parliament.[27] However, on November 19 the Iraqi Parliament was adjourned for a day after lawmakers loyal to Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr shouted down the second reading of the agreement's text. Speaker Mahmoud al-Mashhadani adjourned the session after Sadrist MP Ahmed al-Massoudi aggressively approached a lawmaker from the ruling coalition, who was reading aloud the text of the agreement.[28]
The Aswat al-Iraq news agency reported a mixed reaction among the Iraqi population at large to news of cabinet approval of the agreement. Residents of Sadr City in Baghdad, a stronghold of Muqtada al-Sadr, said they believed the agreement was signed too quickly[29], while a broader 'vox pop' of Iraqis around the country said they thought the agreement would become a point of contention[30]
The same day, Secretaries Gates and Rice held classified briefings for U.S. lawmakers behind closed doors, and neither official commented to reporters. Democratic Representative William Delahunt said: "There has been no meaningful consultation with Congress during the negotiations of this agreement and the American people for all intents and purposes have been completely left out." And Oona Hathaway, Professor Law at the University of California at Berkeley called the lack of consultation with United States Congress unprecedented, asserting that aspects of the accord exceed the independent constitutional powers of the President of the United States.[31]
Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki warned Iraq would not seek to extend the UN mandate of U.S. troops and they would pull out immediately if the Iraqi parliament failed to approve a pact.[32] Tariq al Hashimi, the country's Sunni Muslim vice president, complained the U.S. would cease providing many "wide-scale services" if Iraq did not approve the pact. Hashimi said many Iraqis looked "to this attitude as a matter of blackmailing."[33]
U.S.

 

[Nic_Driver]

Quote: Originally Posted by JRK

my friend you are without doubt lost
If you think for one minute that this country is going to defend its borders only when the UN says we can you are badly mistaken
No where in our constitution will you find "and if the UN approves"

Then why do you keep using the UN as justification?

Your circular arguments are fallacious and have been firmly debunked.

NOTHING HAS BEEN DE BUNKED
HOW DO YOU DE BUNK A VOTE IN THE SENATE?
HOW DO YOU DE-BUNK A SPEECH MADE IN JAN OF 2003 BY HANS BLIX?
HOW DO YOU DE-BUNK THE 500 MUNITIONS FOUND THAT MET THE DEFICITION OF WMD?
HOW DO YOU DE-BUNK THE YELLOW CAKE FOUND AFTER THE INVASION?

HERE TRY
Evidence of WMDs presence in Iraq. - a knol by Luis T. Puig
DOD: Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria « Sister Toldjah
UN weapons inspectors criticise Iraq - 27 January 2003 - New Scientist
Senate approves Iraq war resolution - CNN
YOU DEBUNK ANY OF THAT? THERE IT IS FOR YOU
SENATE VOTES
BLIX STATES IRAQ IS NOT COOPERATING AND HAS 1000S OF WMDS MISSING
WE INVADE 8 WEEKS LATER
DOD TELLS US SENATE, THEY LIED,, WE FOUND THEM, THEY ARE WMDS
WE FIND 550 METRIC TONS OF YELLOW CAKE
DEBUNK IT BUD OR SHUT UP
I AM TIRED OF YOUR LYING

All of this and more has been clearly and soundly debunked, just reread some of the posts you've overlooked.

You will find your answers if you look at instead of ignore the facts.

Here's an idea, why don't you try to address some of those points instead of repeating your debunked points?

 

[Nic_Driver]

Quote: Originally Posted by JRK

Am missing something here?

Uhmmmm, yes.

 

[JakeStarkey]

JRK may not use the UN resolution as an excuse (it is not even a reason) for the invasion.

The USA had no legal authority to act for the UN concerning Iraq.

 

[Nic_Driver]

JRK, just read the information in this link and post on its content please.

snopes.com: Yellowcake Uranium Removed from Iraq

I'm still waiting JRK.

 

[JRK]

Then why do you keep using the UN as justification?

Your circular arguments are fallacious and have been firmly debunked.

NOTHING HAS BEEN DE BUNKED
HOW DO YOU DE BUNK A VOTE IN THE SENATE?
HOW DO YOU DE-BUNK A SPEECH MADE IN JAN OF 2003 BY HANS BLIX?
HOW DO YOU DE-BUNK THE 500 MUNITIONS FOUND THAT MET THE DEFICITION OF WMD?
HOW DO YOU DE-BUNK THE YELLOW CAKE FOUND AFTER THE INVASION?

HERE TRY
Evidence of WMDs presence in Iraq. - a knol by Luis T. Puig
DOD: Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria « Sister Toldjah
UN weapons inspectors criticise Iraq - 27 January 2003 - New Scientist
Senate approves Iraq war resolution - CNN
YOU DEBUNK ANY OF THAT? THERE IT IS FOR YOU
SENATE VOTES
BLIX STATES IRAQ IS NOT COOPERATING AND HAS 1000S OF WMDS MISSING
WE INVADE 8 WEEKS LATER
DOD TELLS US SENATE, THEY LIED,, WE FOUND THEM, THEY ARE WMDS
WE FIND 550 METRIC TONS OF YELLOW CAKE
DEBUNK IT BUD OR SHUT UP
I AM TIRED OF YOUR LYING

All of this and more has been clearly and soundly debunked, just reread some of the posts you've overlooked.

You will find your answers if you look at instead of ignore the facts.

Here's an idea, why don't you try to address some of those points instead of repeating your debunked points?

So yoUr STATING FOR THE RECORD THAT YOU Nic_Driver;4101248 HAS DE-BUNKED THOSE THREADS ABOVE?
THAT THE SENATE NEVER VOTED TO GIVE THE ADMIN PERMISSION TO ATTACK IF IRAQ FAILED TO MEET THE UN MANDATES SUCH AS 1442?
THAT VOTE NEVER TOOK PLACE? THEN PROVIDE A LINK TO PROVE IT

AND THAT BLIX NEVER MADE THESE STATEMENTS?
Chief UN weapons inspector Hans Blix remarked in January 2003 that "Iraq appears not to have come to a genuine acceptance—not even today—of the disarmament, which was demanded of it and which it needs to carry out to win the confidence of the world and to live in peace."[117] Among other things he noted that 1,000 short tons (910 t) of chemical agent were unaccounted for, information on Iraq's VX nerve agent program was missing, and that "no convincing evidence" was presented for the destruction of 8,500 litres (1,900 imp gal; 2,200 US gal) of anthrax that had been declared.[117]
Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

THE THE DOD NEVER WENT BEFORE CONGRESS WITH THIS?
he 500 munitions discovered throughout Iraq since 2003 and discussed in a National Ground Intelligence Center report meet the criteria of weapons of mass destruction, the center's commander said here today.
"These are chemical weapons as defined under the Chemical Weapons Convention, and yes ... they do constitute weapons of mass destruction," Army Col. John Chu told the House Armed Services Committee
DOD: Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria « Sister Toldjah
Defense.gov News Article: Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria, Official Says
I AM NOT GOING TO ADD THE YELLOW CAKE THAT WAS FOUND ALSO
NOW FOR THE RECORD YOUR STATING THAT EACH OF THESE EVENTS ARE FALSE, THE PEOPLE ARE LYING, THE LINKS ARE LIES AND YOU HAVE PROOF TO PROVE THAT Nic_Driver;4101248

 

[JakeStarkey]

None of the above, JRK, negates the fact that the USA did not have authorization from the UN to act on its behalf.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Both the Libyan War and Iraq War could be called illegal. But i will say Bush at least went to our Congress for approval of the Iraq War. Our involvement in the Libyan War is definitely illegal. It is unconstitutional. It was their Civil War. We had no business bombing & killing any Libyans. So the Left's constant cheerleading for killing Gaddafi really is grotesque and proves what hypocrites they are. Was Gaddafi really any more "Evil" than Saddam Hussein? The Left has lost all credibilty at this point. I will never trust them again.

 

[JakeStarkey]

LibocalypseNow your opinion on the legality of the Libyan war is inaccurate, and you know it. No, it is not unconstitutional. This is neither a left nor a right thing at all. But you need to get both sides, left and right, of your brain talking to one another.

 

[Nic_Driver]

JRK, just read the information in this link and post on its content please.

snopes.com: Yellowcake Uranium Removed from Iraq

I'm still waiting JRK.

Still waiting...