What a fantasy.
Getting out of Iraq, universal healthcare, and American energy independence is not socialism. Socialism is control of the means of production by the government.
Spot on.
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What a fantasy.
Getting out of Iraq, universal healthcare, and American energy independence is not socialism. Socialism is control of the means of production by the government.
universal healthcare, right or wrong, is socialism.
I've earned everything I have. No one gave me anything.
The reality of life in this world, be it individual or a nation-state, is that you are "entitled" only to what you can take and what you can keep. THAT is the fundamental axiom of the human condition.
Really?
Did you invent the language you're speaking or did you mother give it to you?
How about mathamatics? Did you invent it, or is it merely a set of skills and knowledge that society gave you?
Shall I go on pointing out all the things which you use which were given you by this society, or do you understand my point?
Really?
Did you invent the language you're speaking or did you mother give it to you?
How about mathamatics? Did you invent it, or is it merely a set of skills and knowledge that society gave you?
Shall I go on pointing out all the things which you use which were given you by this society, or do you understand my point?
Note to self -- do not find yourself on a lifeboat with Zoomie.
What a fantasy.
Getting out of Iraq, universal healthcare, and American energy independence is not socialism. Socialism is control of the means of production by the government.
Shall I get into the huge difference between someone giving something to you and actually putting in the effort of learning a skill? Unfortuantely for my non-mathematical brain I haven't found the pill that will simply pop all that knowledge into my head. That's a pretty tranparent argument editec, even for you. You had to know before you even wrote it what a bullshit statement something like 'haveing mathemtical knowledge given to you' is.
Well, no one gave you any mastery over language, that's for sure. I attained a good mastery of the language through hard work and study. I gained mastery over mathematical principals through hard work and study. I actually know what and how to use a stochastic model, for instance, do you?
No one gave me those skills I obtained them for myself, on my own.
I'm just pointing out what utter bullshit it is for ANY OF US to suggest that we are "self made men", Bern.
It is so preposterous a statement that one would think no person of even average IQ would be foolish enough to suggest it,
Now what they mean is that they worked very hard using what fate gave them and that they are entitled to not have it stolen from them by a repressive government.
Nobody, would disagree.
But I do truly get sick of this ALTAS MYTH that kids all tend to grow into when they first get out of the house and start making their own money for a change,
And when that childiosh conceit becomes the tool that the NEO-CONS have used to convince thse idiots that rule by government is inherently a bad thing?
Well them I just have to interject with some reality,
We ALL stand on the shoulders of the generations which came before us.
No human being is a self made man, and thinking you are is no excuse for selfishness.
Yes we DO owe a debt to the society which made it possible for us to do well.
Because they are America-hating socialists?
There hasn't been enough of a breakdown that Americans will trust the government to run their lives. And there probably never will be.
I'm just pointing out what utter bullshit it is for ANY OF US to suggest that we are "self made men", Bern.
It is so preposterous a statement that one would think no person of even average IQ would be foolish enough to suggest it,
Now what they mean is that they worked very hard using what fate gave them and that they are entitled to not have it stolen from them by a repressive government.
Nobody, would disagree.
But I do truly get sick of this ALTAS MYTH that kids all tend to grow into when they first get out of the house and start making their own money for a change,
And when that childiosh conceit becomes the tool that the NEO-CONS have used to convince thse idiots that rule by government is inherently a bad thing?
Well them I just have to interject with some reality,
We ALL stand on the shoulders of the generations which came before us.
No human being is a self made man, and thinking you are is no excuse for selfishness.
Yes we DO owe a debt to the society which made it possible for us to do well.
O.k. - How about the public roads you use to make your living? How about the public standards for food safety that keep you from being poisoned by an unscrupulous vendor? How about the nice sleep you enjoy every night, knowing that the public military is on the job keeping you safe? How about the public parks that you enjoy occasionally? How about the public standards in building safety so you can go to work and to play with out that worry?
Shall I go on?
There is a place in America for public involvement in the marketplace.
Conservative or Liberal, we all depend on the rest of us for some things... Enforceable standards, if nothing else.
Most liberals will quickly admit to the value of free markets... Now, if the conservatives will just admit to the value of public involvement, we might be able to move beyond the childish name calling and build an infrastructure that our grandkids will be proud to maintain.
-Joe
I'm just pointing out what utter bullshit it is for ANY OF US to suggest that we are "self made men", Bern.
It is so preposterous a statement that one would think no person of even average IQ would be foolish enough to suggest it,
Now what they mean is that they worked very hard using what fate gave them and that they are entitled to not have it stolen from them by a repressive government.
Nobody, would disagree.
But I do truly get sick of this ALTAS MYTH that kids all tend to grow into when they first get out of the house and start making their own money for a change,
And when that childiosh conceit becomes the tool that the NEO-CONS have used to convince thse idiots that rule by government is inherently a bad thing?
Well them I just have to interject with some reality,
We ALL stand on the shoulders of the generations which came before us.
No human being is a self made man, and thinking you are is no excuse for selfishness.
Yes we DO owe a debt to the society which made it possible for us to do well.
There's no problem with basic standards and maintaining a functioning infrastructure. National defense is essential. Those are valid pursuits of government. But that has NOTHING to do with the point of making yourself marketable. I owe NOTHING to ANYONE who CHOSE to NOT obtain them.
Are you willing to help pay for the military, infrastructure and standards enforcement? Should participation in paying for these items be voluntary?
It is an extreme viewpoint that lashes out against all government and all taxes... Just like it is an extreme viewpoint that anyone has a 'right' to food and shelter.
Once the name calling subsides and both the extreme left and the extreme right realize that they are only partially correct, the work of figuring out and compromising on how much government is a good idea and how to pay for it can begin.
-Joe