Would we, if we could, have nuked Germany in WWII

[2aguy]

And how about the real question...if the Japanese had had the bomb before Pearl Harbor....would they have used it on Pearl Harbor.....or the Mainland United States.....

Would the Germans have used it on London.........


Without a fucking doubt.....and if they had lots of them, they would have rained nuclear bombs on all of their enemies......as would the Germans....and they would have done it to start and win the wars, not end them....

 

[2aguy]

Bushido. The Way of the Warrior. You can't apply modern Western logic to an ancient cultural norm just as you can't project modern Western norms on the pre-WW2 Japanese Empire in order to promote revisionist history to fit a leftist narrative.

Unless you are a 21st century college professor with an agenda.


Japan: No Surrender in World War Two
--By the end of World War Two, Japan had endured 14 years of war, and lay in ruins - with over three million dead. Why did the war in Japan cost so much, and what led so many to fight on after the end of the hostilities?

More:
BBC - History - World Wars Japan No Surrender in World War Two

Remember....Japan was in its feudal period when it was forced to open up and modernize...meaning their beliefs about warfare were still at a feudal level, they were a feudal society with modern weapons......hence their utter barbarity when they captured a country....

And yet...with that concept...of arming a feudal society with modern weapons...our lefties in charge want to give nukes to iran.......just saying

 

[there4eyeM]

Never

We looked at the Japs as savages, We still identified with Germany

The Japaneses soldiers during the war were savages...they tortured, raped and murdered as policy....look at the rape of Nanking, and the murder of civilians and soldiers...they were savages during the war.....

How did this distinguish them from the Red Army or the Wehrmacht, or, indeed, any other armies in that and other wars?

 

[2aguy]

True....the Japanese were savages because they were a feudal culture with modern weapons...the Germans and the Russians were socialists....atheists.....in their leadership...the Japanese were pagans.....but the most savage of all to occupied countries and captured soldiers were the Japanese......

 

[there4eyeM]

Is there some other reason for the other soldiers and armies?

 

[2aguy]

Is there some other reason for the other soldiers and armies?

Yes...the Germans and the Russians were socialists who hated Christian values...they were atheists, and in the German case some of their leadership were pagans....to socialists, individuals are expendable cogs in the wheel....so mass killing is part of the process of creating a new society....

The West....still embraced Christian values and the rule of law.....a lot fewer atrocities and better treatment of occupied countries and captured soldiers.....

 

[there4eyeM]

Uhm, hmm...

 

[williepete]

Yes.....we firebombed whole cities and that killed many more people than the bombs did....

Those unfamiliar with the various campaigns of the PTO may find this article from The Asia-Pacific Journal interesting:

The firebombing of Tokyo on the night of March 9-10, 1945 touched off the wave of firebombing that destroyed 64 Japanese cities and culminated in the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. While Hiroshima and Nagasaki have been deeply engraved on the consciousness of humanity and commemorated in monuments, museums, films, novels and textbooks, the firebombing and napalming of civilians of many other Japanese and Asian cities has largely disappeared from consciousness, except for the victims. The bombing of March 9-10 took the lives of 100,000 Tokyoites and leveled sixteen square miles of the city in the most devastating raid in human history to that time . . . according to Japanese and US Strategic Bombing Survey figures, and may have taken the lives of many more. In recent years commemorative efforts have begun to remember the events and the victims, and lawsuits have been filed seeking damages for victims.

The Great Tokyo Air Raid and the Bombing of Civilians in World War II The Asia-Pacific Journal

 

[JakeStarkey]

Kevin, the power struggle of course negates your comments. The struggle in the government and with the military simply eviscerates your position. The government was not ready to surrender unconditionally at all, and afterwards, only the Emperor’s almost sacred presence made a surrender attempt possible. You admit as much when you say the Japanese realized the only question was whether the Emperor could remain. Yet the military still rose up, and a nip and tuck situation occurred where the surrender recording was barely released. It easily could have not happened. So saying the Japanese “government was ready to surrender before the bombs” without any qualification is specious.

Dilloduck’s comment that “Roosevelt would have had to ask Stalin for permission” is not only callow but foolish and is worth only of CrusaderFrank.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Yes, I hate Asians so much that I think vaporizing all those innocent Japanese people was horrendous and that any talk of it being necessary to end the war is a lie.

Racism doesn't have to be negative. You just assume that because of race we would randomly nuke a country.

Also I think sympathizing with Japan is fucking stupid. They attacked us first so we beat their ass. We also helped rebuild them.

It's more likely that you just reflexively throw out the term racist against people you disagree with, especially since I never said that Japan was randomly nuked or that it had anything to do with race.

I don't sympathize with the Japanese government of WWII, I sympathize with the innocent civilians who had nothing to do with attacking the United States but were vaporized regardless. Nor is it so simple as to say that Japan attacked "us" first. The U.S. government purposefully provoked Japan, and the Axis in general, so that they would attack and change public opinion so that FDR could enter the war as he fully intended to do.

So you wouldn't have supported our entry into WWII?

Not quite that simple. Japan did attack Pearl Harbor after all. I certainly would have opposed the policies that caused Japan to want to attack Pearl Harbor, but it's not like they had to attack Pearl Harbor. So once they did I'm not sure you can not get involved. I certainly oppose nuking them once they're already beaten and trying to surrender, however. And oppose nuking civilians period.

That whole trying to surrender is a leftist myth......

Leftists like Dwight Eisenhower and the source documents provided in this very thread.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Never

We looked at the Japs as savages, We still identified with Germany

The Japaneses soldiers during the war were savages...they tortured, raped and murdered as policy....look at the rape of Nanking, and the murder of civilians and soldiers...they were savages during the war.....

And the Americans never raped? That would be news to many French women among others.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Kevin, the power struggle of course negates your comments. The struggle in the government and with the military simply eviscerates your position. The government was not ready to surrender unconditionally at all, and afterwards, only the Emperor’s almost sacred presence made a surrender attempt possible. You admit as much when you say the Japanese realized the only question was whether the Emperor could remain. Yet the military still rose up, and a nip and tuck situation occurred where the surrender recording was barely released. It easily could have not happened. So saying the Japanese “government was ready to surrender before the bombs” without any qualification is specious.

Dilloduck’s comment that “Roosevelt would have had to ask Stalin for permission” is not only callow but foolish and is worth only of CrusaderFrank.

So we saw with the source documents that the Japanese government was ready to surrender, but you say the military wouldn't have let it happen. Then we drop the nukes and the military still won't let it happen. Then it happens anyways. What am I missing?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

And how about the real question...if the Japanese had had the bomb before Pearl Harbor....would they have used it on Pearl Harbor.....or the Mainland United States.....

Would the Germans have used it on London.........


Without a fucking doubt.....and if they had lots of them, they would have rained nuclear bombs on all of their enemies......as would the Germans....and they would have done it to start and win the wars, not end them....

Question: Would it have been a war crime for Germany to nuke Detroit?

 

[MaryL]

The atom bomb was developed for use against the Nazis. Hell, European expats helped develop the atom bomb to stop the Nazis. Read any history books lately? America would have definitely nuked Berlin, without a doubt.

 

[2aguy]

Never

We looked at the Japs as savages, We still identified with Germany

The Japaneses soldiers during the war were savages...they tortured, raped and murdered as policy....look at the rape of Nanking, and the murder of civilians and soldiers...they were savages during the war.....

And the Americans never raped? That would be news to many French women among others.

Did I say that....no....I didn't even say that in my post......sacking cities was not Allied policy or doctrine, or practice...it was however german, russian and japanese policy and practice......why...they were not restrained by Christian values or Western rule of law...allied soldiers caught committing rape went to prison.....german, russian and japanese....it was a reward......and expected...ask the populations that suffered under their occupation....

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Never

We looked at the Japs as savages, We still identified with Germany

The Japaneses soldiers during the war were savages...they tortured, raped and murdered as policy....look at the rape of Nanking, and the murder of civilians and soldiers...they were savages during the war.....

And the Americans never raped? That would be news to many French women among others.

Did I say that....no....I didn't even say that in my post......sacking cities was not Allied policy or doctrine, or practice...it was however german, russian and japanese policy and practice......why...they were not restrained by Christian values or Western rule of law...allied soldiers caught committing rape went to prison.....german, russian and japanese....it was a reward......and expected...ask the populations that suffered under their occupation....

No, you didn't say it, but you seem fairly one sided in your criticism and so it needed to be pointed out. Also, you're extremely naive if you think the American troops went to prison for rape or barbarity. I'd say that would be the exception more than the rule. As for sacking cities, no, the Americans just wiped them off the map with bombs or nukes. So very Christian, what with the Golden Rule being "Vaporize others because they suck."

 

[2aguy]

And how about the real question...if the Japanese had had the bomb before Pearl Harbor....would they have used it on Pearl Harbor.....or the Mainland United States.....

Would the Germans have used it on London.........


Without a fucking doubt.....and if they had lots of them, they would have rained nuclear bombs on all of their enemies......as would the Germans....and they would have done it to start and win the wars, not end them....

Question: Would it have been a war crime for Germany to nuke Detroit?

Yeah.....we did not start the war....oh....you went to a government school, controlled by the education wing of the democrat party.....so you take the side that America was the bad guy....why didn't you say so...you don't understand reality, truth or actual history.....now that I know that...it will make this easier......

In World War 2, Germany, Italy, Russia and Japan were the aggressors, the bad guys...Russia joined our team when hitler turned on them after they had initially worked together......

And it would have been a war crime to nuke detroit because we did not start the war......Germany started the war in Europe then declared war on the U.S.

 

[2aguy]

Never

We looked at the Japs as savages, We still identified with Germany

The Japaneses soldiers during the war were savages...they tortured, raped and murdered as policy....look at the rape of Nanking, and the murder of civilians and soldiers...they were savages during the war.....

And the Americans never raped? That would be news to many French women among others.

Did I say that....no....I didn't even say that in my post......sacking cities was not Allied policy or doctrine, or practice...it was however german, russian and japanese policy and practice......why...they were not restrained by Christian values or Western rule of law...allied soldiers caught committing rape went to prison.....german, russian and japanese....it was a reward......and expected...ask the populations that suffered under their occupation....

No, you didn't say it, but you seem fairly one sided in your criticism and so it needed to be pointed out. Also, you're extremely naive if you think the American troops went to prison for rape or barbarity. I'd say that would be the exception more than the rule. As for sacking cities, no, the Americans just wiped them off the map with bombs or nukes.

You are a good product of our democrat controlled education system.......

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

And how about the real question...if the Japanese had had the bomb before Pearl Harbor....would they have used it on Pearl Harbor.....or the Mainland United States.....

Would the Germans have used it on London.........


Without a fucking doubt.....and if they had lots of them, they would have rained nuclear bombs on all of their enemies......as would the Germans....and they would have done it to start and win the wars, not end them....

Question: Would it have been a war crime for Germany to nuke Detroit?

Yeah.....we did not start the war....oh....you went to a government school, controlled by the education wing of the democrat party.....so you take the side that America was the bad guy....why didn't you say so...you don't understand reality, truth or actual history.....now that I know that...it will make this easier......

In World War 2, Germany, Italy, Russia and Japan were the aggressors, the bad guys...Russia joined our team when hitler turned on them after they had initially worked together......

And it would have been a war crime to nuke detroit because we did not start the war......Germany started the war in Europe then declared war on the U.S.

Now who's putting words in people's mouths? Regardless, who was the aggressor and who wasn't is irrelevant to the question of whether an action is a war crime. A nuclear bomb over a civilian population is either a war crime or it isn't, and that doesn't change based on who commits the act.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Never

We looked at the Japs as savages, We still identified with Germany

The Japaneses soldiers during the war were savages...they tortured, raped and murdered as policy....look at the rape of Nanking, and the murder of civilians and soldiers...they were savages during the war.....

And the Americans never raped? That would be news to many French women among others.

Did I say that....no....I didn't even say that in my post......sacking cities was not Allied policy or doctrine, or practice...it was however german, russian and japanese policy and practice......why...they were not restrained by Christian values or Western rule of law...allied soldiers caught committing rape went to prison.....german, russian and japanese....it was a reward......and expected...ask the populations that suffered under their occupation....

No, you didn't say it, but you seem fairly one sided in your criticism and so it needed to be pointed out. Also, you're extremely naive if you think the American troops went to prison for rape or barbarity. I'd say that would be the exception more than the rule. As for sacking cities, no, the Americans just wiped them off the map with bombs or nukes.

You are a good product of our democrat controlled education system.......

"I can't address anything you actually said, so here's a fun talking point I've been programmed to mindlessly repeat."