Would you be willing to accept this Second Amendment compromise?

[ChrisL]

NOpe.

Any attempt to raise the cost of gun ownership is a restriction on a important Right.

If the whole point of the amendment is arming the militia, then shouldn't we be barring those incapable of entering the militia to have one? Think about the kind of person who couldn't even join a volunteer irregular military-lite.

No. There is also the right to self defense that you are ignoring. If you have ever read some of the federalist papers, you would see that this was a very important component of the 2nd amendment.

“O sir, we should have fine times, indeed, if, to punish tyrants, it were only sufficient to assemble the people! Your arms, wherewith you could defend yourselves, are gone; and you have no longer an aristocratical, no longer a democratical spirit. Did you ever read of any revolution in a nation, brought about by the punishment of those in power, inflicted by those who had no power at all?” – Speech in the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 5, 1778; “Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution,” Jonathan Elliot, editor, vol. 3, pp. 50-53

“Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?” – Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution, Jonathan Elliot, ed. 1836, vol. 3, p.168

“The great object is, that every man be armed … Every one who is able may have a gun.”– Debates in the Several State Conventions on Adoption of the Federal Constitution, Jonathan Elliot, ed. 1836, vol. 3, p. 386

 

[danielpalos]

Only well regulated militias of the People are declared necessary to the security of a free State, not the People who are the non-well regulated militia of the People.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Only well regulated militias of the People are declared necessary to the security of a free State, not the People who are the non-well regulated militia of the People.

So produce the documentation I asked for yesterday. It should be an easy thing for you.

 

[danielpalos]

Only well regulated militias of the People are declared necessary to the security of a free State, not the People who are the non-well regulated militia of the People.

So produce the documentation I asked for yesterday. It should be an easy thing for you.

Here it is, for your ease and convenience:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

10 U.S. Code § 311 - Militia: composition and classes

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are—

(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

A well regulated militia must be an organized militia that musters, to prove it.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Only well regulated militias of the People are declared necessary to the security of a free State, not the People who are the non-well regulated militia of the People.

So produce the documentation I asked for yesterday. It should be an easy thing for you.

You will receive none, for no such documentation exists.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Only well regulated militias of the People are declared necessary to the security of a free State, not the People who are the non-well regulated militia of the People.

So produce the documentation I asked for yesterday. It should be an easy thing for you.

Here it is, for your ease and convenience:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

10 U.S. Code § 311 - Militia: composition and classes

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are—

(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

A well regulated militia must be an organized militia that musters, to prove it.

That is not the documentation I requested.

Try again.

 

[danielpalos]

Only well regulated militias of the People are declared necessary to the security of a free State, not the People who are the non-well regulated militia of the People.

So produce the documentation I asked for yesterday. It should be an easy thing for you.

You will receive none, for no such documentation exists.

A definitive answer is in post number 324.

 

[danielpalos]

Only well regulated militias of the People are declared necessary to the security of a free State, not the People who are the non-well regulated militia of the People.

So produce the documentation I asked for yesterday. It should be an easy thing for you.

Here it is, for your ease and convenience:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

10 U.S. Code § 311 - Militia: composition and classes

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are—

(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

A well regulated militia must be an organized militia that musters, to prove it.

That is not the documentation I requested.

Try again.

I don't have to try again; that is my legal argument; any questions?

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Only well regulated militias of the People are declared necessary to the security of a free State, not the People who are the non-well regulated militia of the People.

So produce the documentation I asked for yesterday. It should be an easy thing for you.

Here it is, for your ease and convenience:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

10 U.S. Code § 311 - Militia: composition and classes

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are—

(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

A well regulated militia must be an organized militia that musters, to prove it.

That is not the documentation I requested.

Try again.

I don't have to try again; that is my legal argument; any questions?

Why would I question your failure? You are completely entitled to it.

 

[danielpalos]

Only well regulated militias of the People are declared necessary to the security of a free State, not the People who are the non-well regulated militia of the People.

So produce the documentation I asked for yesterday. It should be an easy thing for you.

Here it is, for your ease and convenience:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

10 U.S. Code § 311 - Militia: composition and classes

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are—

(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

A well regulated militia must be an organized militia that musters, to prove it.

That is not the documentation I requested.

Try again.

I don't have to try again; that is my legal argument; any questions?

Why would I question your failure? You are completely entitled to it.

which failure is that; you are the one with nothing but fallacy for your Cause.

either get a clue and a Cause or lose any credibility and Standing.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Only well regulated militias of the People are declared necessary to the security of a free State, not the People who are the non-well regulated militia of the People.

So produce the documentation I asked for yesterday. It should be an easy thing for you.

Here it is, for your ease and convenience:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

10 U.S. Code § 311 - Militia: composition and classes

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are—

(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

A well regulated militia must be an organized militia that musters, to prove it.

Militias are cool. Of course they in no way restrict the right to keep and bear arms.

 

[danielpalos]

Only well regulated militias of the People are declared necessary to the security of a free State, not the People who are the non-well regulated militia of the People.

So produce the documentation I asked for yesterday. It should be an easy thing for you.

Here it is, for your ease and convenience:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

10 U.S. Code § 311 - Militia: composition and classes

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are—

(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

A well regulated militia must be an organized militia that musters, to prove it.

Militias are cool. Of course they in no way restrict the right to keep and bear arms.

Of course they do; Ask the South. Only well regulated militias of the United States many not be Infringed when keeping and bearing Arms for their State or the Union

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Only well regulated militias of the People are declared necessary to the security of a free State, not the People who are the non-well regulated militia of the People.

So produce the documentation I asked for yesterday. It should be an easy thing for you.

Here it is, for your ease and convenience:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

10 U.S. Code § 311 - Militia: composition and classes

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are—

(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

A well regulated militia must be an organized militia that musters, to prove it.

Militias are cool. Of course they in no way restrict the right to keep and bear arms.

Of course they do

You are outvoted by the Constitution, the SCOTUS, all fifty states, 300,000,000+ firearms in the hands of 100,000,000+ citizens, and history.

Go and grovel happily in your fantasy.

 

[ChrisL]

Only well regulated militias of the People are declared necessary to the security of a free State, not the People who are the non-well regulated militia of the People.

So produce the documentation I asked for yesterday. It should be an easy thing for you.

Here it is, for your ease and convenience:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

10 U.S. Code § 311 - Militia: composition and classes

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are—

(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

A well regulated militia must be an organized militia that musters, to prove it.

That is not the documentation I requested.

Try again.

I don't have to try again; that is my legal argument; any questions?

You haven't really made any arguments, sorry to say. Just more of the same mumbo jumbo, words thrown together in the form of a poorly constructed sentence. Your posts about every subject are all pretty much the same. What is wrong with you anyway?

 

[ChrisL]

Only well regulated militias of the People are declared necessary to the security of a free State, not the People who are the non-well regulated militia of the People.

So produce the documentation I asked for yesterday. It should be an easy thing for you.

Here it is, for your ease and convenience:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

10 U.S. Code § 311 - Militia: composition and classes

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are—

(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

A well regulated militia must be an organized militia that musters, to prove it.

Militias are cool. Of course they in no way restrict the right to keep and bear arms.

Of course they do; Ask the South. Only well regulated militias of the United States many not be Infringed when keeping and bearing Arms for their State or the Union

Are you insane? I'm seriously wondering.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

The current text: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

The right generally interpret the militia to be the unorganized militia, that is the entire body of all militarily capable men. The left generally interprets it to be the organized militias of the old colonies, or at least the current National Guard. Instead let us consider it the collective term for the various state defense forces. They're much like the Guard except in that they do not fall under federal authority in any way. To own a firearm legally, one would to buy and register it. To register as a gun owner, one would need to enlist in their state's defense force. What this would mean in practice is that those people carrying a concealed firearm around you in public would be required to attend regular safety and marksmanship instruction from professionals. The pasty white guy packing the Glock in his jacket pocket would pose less of a danger to you and other bystanders when he decided to play big badass hero.

What do you say? Yea? Nay? Yea with modifications?

No.

the right to bear arms is NOT modified by the language describing one of the needs for it.

So what you offer is not a "compromise." It is a capitulation of the RIGHT that pre-existed the Constitution itself.

I offer an alternative compromise. Let us AMEND the Second Amendment to get rid of the prefatory "militia" clause. The entire Amendment would then read with no alleged ambiguity, "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Only well regulated militias of the People are declared necessary to the security of a free State, not the People who are the non-well regulated militia of the People.

So produce the documentation I asked for yesterday. It should be an easy thing for you.

Here it is, for your ease and convenience:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

10 U.S. Code § 311 - Militia: composition and classes

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are—

(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

A well regulated militia must be an organized militia that musters, to prove it.

Militias are cool. Of course they in no way restrict the right to keep and bear arms.

Of course they do; Ask the South. Only well regulated militias of the United States many not be Infringed when keeping and bearing Arms for their State or the Union

Of course they do

If only you had 2nd Amendment backup for your feeling.

 

[danielpalos]

Only well regulated militias of the People are declared necessary to the security of a free State, not the People who are the non-well regulated militia of the People.

So produce the documentation I asked for yesterday. It should be an easy thing for you.

Here it is, for your ease and convenience:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

10 U.S. Code § 311 - Militia: composition and classes

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are—

(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

A well regulated militia must be an organized militia that musters, to prove it.

Militias are cool. Of course they in no way restrict the right to keep and bear arms.

Of course they do

You are outvoted by the Constitution, the SCOTUS, all fifty states, 300,000,000+ firearms in the hands of 100,000,000+ citizens, and history.

Go and grovel happily in your fantasy.

Which fantasy is that?

acquire and possess, simple possession, is secured in State Constitutions with that terminology.

Keep and bear is not the same as simple possession; for Anyone. Only well regulated militias of the United States may not be Infringed when keeping and bearing Arms for their State or the Union.

Individual felons of the People are being denied and disparaged, simple possession of Arms, every day.

 

[danielpalos]

Only well regulated militias of the People are declared necessary to the security of a free State, not the People who are the non-well regulated militia of the People.

So produce the documentation I asked for yesterday. It should be an easy thing for you.

Here it is, for your ease and convenience:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

10 U.S. Code § 311 - Militia: composition and classes

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are—

(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

A well regulated militia must be an organized militia that musters, to prove it.

That is not the documentation I requested.

Try again.

I don't have to try again; that is my legal argument; any questions?

You haven't really made any arguments, sorry to say. Just more of the same mumbo jumbo, words thrown together in the form of a poorly constructed sentence. Your posts about every subject are all pretty much the same. What is wrong with you anyway?

dear; you are welcome to get a clue and a Cause.

i have a clue and a Cause; unlike those of the opposing view.

 

[danielpalos]

Only well regulated militias of the People are declared necessary to the security of a free State, not the People who are the non-well regulated militia of the People.

So produce the documentation I asked for yesterday. It should be an easy thing for you.

Here it is, for your ease and convenience:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

10 U.S. Code § 311 - Militia: composition and classes

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are—

(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

A well regulated militia must be an organized militia that musters, to prove it.

Militias are cool. Of course they in no way restrict the right to keep and bear arms.

Of course they do; Ask the South. Only well regulated militias of the United States many not be Infringed when keeping and bearing Arms for their State or the Union

Are you insane? I'm seriously wondering.

well, keep wondering dear, until you acquire and possess a doctorate and we can go over this again.

you have to check for fallacies; or, you are simply engaging in hearsay and soothsay.