Wouldn't This be Considered Child Abuse.

[Old Rocks]

I grew up around logging camps and ranch country in Oregon and Washington. Many of the kids that I grew up with were operating farm machinery, or helping their fathers in the log woods at fourteen. Yes, there were some accidents. And some died. However, the death rate from those accidents were a lot less than the death rate from the drugs of this generation. Or,even, for that matter, that generation.

My wife and I are active in Venture Scouting. Much of the things these kids, both male and female, do involve degrees of risk. And when they are done have done some of the activities, whether it be rappeling, mountain biking, or canoe trips in the San Juans, they will have new skills and confidence.

Adolescents are natural at taking chances. They are going to take chances no matter what you wish them to do. You can either guide that into areas that will build skills, or you can let them find drugs, sex, and alcohol on their own. Not saying that those involved in these activities will not try all of the above. However, they will have experiance in judging risk and reward.

 

[ConHog]

It's not like the kid had been a knitter her whole life and, one day, decided to jump on a boat and take it for a spin.
This is something she had been raised around and taught and mastered her whole life.


You'd probably shit your pants to see my 11 yr old grandson driving an airboat, but he's spent his whole life on one and knows alot more about one that you do, most likely.

Cool. so would you let him pilot one alone in the open sea?

 

[syrenn]

It's not like the kid had been a knitter her whole life and, one day, decided to jump on a boat and take it for a spin.
This is something she had been raised around and taught and mastered her whole life.


You'd probably shit your pants to see my 11 yr old grandson driving an airboat, but he's spent his whole life on one and knows alot more about one that you do, most likely.

Cool. so would you let him pilot one alone in the open sea?

How about you give the 11 year old 5 more years and see what he can do at 16.

 

[ConHog]

It's not like the kid had been a knitter her whole life and, one day, decided to jump on a boat and take it for a spin.
This is something she had been raised around and taught and mastered her whole life.


You'd probably shit your pants to see my 11 yr old grandson driving an airboat, but he's spent his whole life on one and knows alot more about one that you do, most likely.

Cool. so would you let him pilot one alone in the open sea?

How about you give the 11 year old 5 more years and see what he can do at 16.

Look, you're already on record as being a horrible potential mother, no need to further prove it.

By the way, did you watch Geraldo tonight? He had family members on screen saying that A) The father pushed the daughter to continue the trip against advice that the weather was too bad and B) he pushed the "Self sufficient child" to continue her journey after the ship had mechanical problems that were hastily and insufficiently repaired.

Nope, no neglect there...............

 

[syrenn]

Cool. so would you let him pilot one alone in the open sea?

How about you give the 11 year old 5 more years and see what he can do at 16.

Look, you're already on record as being a horrible potential mother, no need to further prove it.

By the way, did you watch Geraldo tonight? He had family members on screen saying that A) The father pushed the daughter to continue the trip against advice that the weather was too bad and B) he pushed the "Self sufficient child" to continue her journey after the ship had mechanical problems that were hastily and insufficiently repaired.

Nope, no neglect there...............

Your do harp on don't you? Again wait till he is 16 and see what he can do. 11 is not a fair comparison. Or are you trying to interfere with other peoples children and the decision making of the parents ?

Actually I did not watch. I didn't even know it was on . Though you do seem quite obsessed with Abby.

 

[Modbert]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6wOt2iXdc4]YouTube - George Carlin -Child Worship[/ame]

 

[ConHog]

How about you give the 11 year old 5 more years and see what he can do at 16.

Look, you're already on record as being a horrible potential mother, no need to further prove it.

By the way, did you watch Geraldo tonight? He had family members on screen saying that A) The father pushed the daughter to continue the trip against advice that the weather was too bad and B) he pushed the "Self sufficient child" to continue her journey after the ship had mechanical problems that were hastily and insufficiently repaired.

Nope, no neglect there...............

Your do harp on don't you? Again wait till he is 16 and see what he can do. 11 is not a fair comparison. Or are you trying to interfere with other peoples children and the decision making of the parents ?

Actually I did not watch. I didn't even know it was on . Though you do seem quite obsessed with Abby.

You're god damned right I'm interfering with people who make dumb decisions for people who are powerless against them.

Let me ask you, if your local sheriff was abusing his power wouldn't you hope there was someone you could turn to for help?

Oh, and bullshit you didn't know, I posted it in this thread, well or maybe one of the others about this subject I'm not sure but you and I talked about it, you CHOSE not to watch it out of fear that he would give evidence that would upset your applecart.

Watch now, Bert will start a "Geralodo lies" thread

 

[ConHog]

YouTube - George Carlin -Child Worship

You are correct, Abby's dad is guilty of this.

 

[Modbert]

Watch now, Bert will start a "Geralodo lies" thread

The same guy of Al Capone vault fame and the one who gave away U.S military coordinates on Live TV? That would be too easy.

 

[Modbert]

You are correct, Abby's dad is guilty of this.

Someone obviously didn't bother to watch the video. Or you didn't state that correctly.

 

[ConHog]

You are correct, Abby's dad is guilty of this.

Someone obviously didn't bother to watch the video. Or you didn't state that correctly.

LOL @ Bert getting burned by his own video. I am not the one who wants to control this child you fool, her DAD controlled her, or are you implying that family members lied?


as for the tomb LOL yes he should have seen that it was empty with his X Ray vision. Just as Abby's dad should have predicted a perfectly predictable storm would occur by watching the weather channel.


You suck at debating

 

[Modbert]

LOL @ Bert getting burned by his own video. I am not the one who wants to control this child you fool, her DAD controlled her, or are you implying that family members lied?


as for the tomb LOL yes he should have seen that it was empty with his X Ray vision. Just as Abby's dad should have predicted a perfectly predictable storm would occur by watching the weather channel.


You suck at debating

She's doing what she wants. He's not forcing her to do anything.

 

[syrenn]

Look, you're already on record as being a horrible potential mother, no need to further prove it.

By the way, did you watch Geraldo tonight? He had family members on screen saying that A) The father pushed the daughter to continue the trip against advice that the weather was too bad and B) he pushed the "Self sufficient child" to continue her journey after the ship had mechanical problems that were hastily and insufficiently repaired.

Nope, no neglect there...............

Your do harp on don't you? Again wait till he is 16 and see what he can do. 11 is not a fair comparison. Or are you trying to interfere with other peoples children and the decision making of the parents ?

Actually I did not watch. I didn't even know it was on . Though you do seem quite obsessed with Abby.

You're god damned right I'm interfering with people who make dumb decisions for people who are powerless against them.

Let me ask you, if your local sheriff was abusing his power wouldn't you hope there was someone you could turn to for help?

Oh, and bullshit you didn't know, I posted it in this thread, well or maybe one of the others about this subject I'm not sure but you and I talked about it, you CHOSE not to watch it out of fear that he would give evidence that would upset your applecart.

Watch now, Bert will start a "Geralodo lies" thread

Agreed, yes you do see to want to. I would think most parents would take issue with your officiousness.

A local sheriff is not a comparison to Abby or Abbys parents.

Yes we talked about geralodo but not the time or date of the show. If we did I made no note of it to watch. I have never watched his show so knowing when and where it is on is not on the top of my list to pay attention to. There are other things in life more important then waiting and watching geralodo.

Okay *watching*

 

[ConHog]

Your do harp on don't you? Again wait till he is 16 and see what he can do. 11 is not a fair comparison. Or are you trying to interfere with other peoples children and the decision making of the parents ?

Actually I did not watch. I didn't even know it was on . Though you do seem quite obsessed with Abby.

You're god damned right I'm interfering with people who make dumb decisions for people who are powerless against them.

Let me ask you, if your local sheriff was abusing his power wouldn't you hope there was someone you could turn to for help?

Oh, and bullshit you didn't know, I posted it in this thread, well or maybe one of the others about this subject I'm not sure but you and I talked about it, you CHOSE not to watch it out of fear that he would give evidence that would upset your applecart.

Watch now, Bert will start a "Geralodo lies" thread

Agreed, yes you do see to want to. I would think most parents would take issue with your officiousness.

A local sheriff is not a comparison to Abby or Abbys parents.

Yes we talked about geralodo but not the time or date of the show. If we did I made no note of it to watch. I have never watched his show so knowing when and where it is on is not on the top of my list to pay attention to. There are other things in life more important then waiting and watching geralodo.

Okay *watching*

I beg to differ, the local sheriff is a very good analogy. That is the EXACT purpose of our laws, our LEO's , and our military. To protect those who can't protect themselves. Would you agree that a Sherriff could abuse his authority over citizens? Would you agree that a parent could abuse their authority over their children?


Oh, I'm sure there are, of course there are more important things to do, but how can you claim to want an honest debate when you admittedly have not viewed all the evidence?

 

[kurtsprincess]

No I don't consider this child abuse. She wanted to go and try sailing around the world, and the parents gave their consent. Rather like training for the Olympics and going for the gold, don't you think?

Yeah, perfect comparison if going for the gold meant being on your own in a dangerous environment for several months.

OMG Sweet Jesus when did people become so fucking stupid as to think a 16 y/o girl should be able to CHOOSE to do something like this?

If you think that please for the sake of your children give them up for adoption, if you haven't any children , please report for sterilization because YOU ARE TOO FUCKING STUPID AND IRRESPONSIBLE TO HAVE KIDS.

I am one of seven kids and I've raised one biological daughter and two stepsons, and I have three grandchildren, so I think I can speak from experience. Each one matured differently and were given different responsibilities at different ages based upon how experienced they were and how much we trusted them. We didn't use a generic rule when we decided what our children were capable of handling. One son got his license at 16 because we knew he was responsible enough to handle it ... the other two didn't get theirs until they were legally adults and we no longer had a say. That same child was very good with guns and bows and did well in competitions ... the other two, nope .... they didn't even like touching them.

Perhaps your children don't exhibit the same qualities that would give you the ability to see why some parents have more confidence in their children than other people have in theirs.

More importantly, after reading some of your posts here, and how immature you sound, I can understand why you would think a 16 yr old isn't mature enough.

 

[Againsheila]

Letting a 16 year old sail around the world.

Ther is no way I would let my babygirl go on such a journey, but then again, I dont know that young lady. Im sure her parents are second guessing their decision, but that is between them and their God now.

From what I hear, she is very experienced for her age. Grew up on the water.

dang you and that bug....I tried to kill it!

 

[ConHog]

No I don't consider this child abuse. She wanted to go and try sailing around the world, and the parents gave their consent. Rather like training for the Olympics and going for the gold, don't you think?

Yeah, perfect comparison if going for the gold meant being on your own in a dangerous environment for several months.

OMG Sweet Jesus when did people become so fucking stupid as to think a 16 y/o girl should be able to CHOOSE to do something like this?

If you think that please for the sake of your children give them up for adoption, if you haven't any children , please report for sterilization because YOU ARE TOO FUCKING STUPID AND IRRESPONSIBLE TO HAVE KIDS.

I am one of seven kids and I've raised one biological daughter and two stepsons, and I have three grandchildren, so I think I can speak from experience. Each one matured differently and were given different responsibilities at different ages based upon how experienced they were and how much we trusted them. We didn't use a generic rule when we decided what our children were capable of handling. One son got his license at 16 because we knew he was responsible enough to handle it ... the other two didn't get theirs until they were legally adults and we no longer had a say. That same child was very good with guns and bows and did well in competitions ... the other two, nope .... they didn't even like touching them.

Perhaps your children don't exhibit the same qualities that would give you the ability to see why some parents have more confidence in their children than other people have in theirs.

More importantly, after reading some of your posts here, and how immature you sound, I can understand why you would think a 16 yr old isn't mature enough.

NONE of that applies to a situation where a father coerced his daughter into a dangerous sea, not just dangerous but the most dangerous season for the most dangerous sea, in an undersized , mechanically unsound boat by herself. Defending that is indefensible.

As for my own maturity level.... I never denied that I often let debates drag me down to their level. I do it for a few reasons, not the least of which is the sheer joy of calling out dumb people for being dumb. Please don't even act like am I alone, or even in the minority there, b/c we both know that certainly isn't true.

 

[Againsheila]

How fucking lame.

The "age of majority" is an arbitrary legal definition and someone of you are acting like it actually means anything.

Do any of you know history? Do you know how long the idea of adolescence has existed? 100 years ago this wouldn't have been a big deal. Now we want to keep people young as long as possible. It's soooo much easier to market shit no one needs to a 40 year old when they have the maturity of a 13 year old.

Ask yourself why. Seriously, what is the benefit to keeping "young people" young and not responsible for themselves? This has been a trend of the last 100 years. Do you think things have gotten better? Are young people smarter? More responsible? More capable?

Child abuse to let a "kid" experience life? Only in a Liberal world gone mad (er... liberal).

Not a good comparison. 100 years ago, the average lifespan was what, 40 years?

Unless she is an emancipated minor, her parents are responsible for her and they shouldn't have let her go as she is a CHILD! She'll have plenty of time to do stupid things once she turns 18. Well, she would if her parents didn't let her go at 16. Again, had she been caught by pirates, raped and murdered, would you still be backing the parents decision to let her sail around the world?

 

[syrenn]

Yeah, perfect comparison if going for the gold meant being on your own in a dangerous environment for several months.

OMG Sweet Jesus when did people become so fucking stupid as to think a 16 y/o girl should be able to CHOOSE to do something like this?

If you think that please for the sake of your children give them up for adoption, if you haven't any children , please report for sterilization because YOU ARE TOO FUCKING STUPID AND IRRESPONSIBLE TO HAVE KIDS.

I am one of seven kids and I've raised one biological daughter and two stepsons, and I have three grandchildren, so I think I can speak from experience. Each one matured differently and were given different responsibilities at different ages based upon how experienced they were and how much we trusted them. We didn't use a generic rule when we decided what our children were capable of handling. One son got his license at 16 because we knew he was responsible enough to handle it ... the other two didn't get theirs until they were legally adults and we no longer had a say. That same child was very good with guns and bows and did well in competitions ... the other two, nope .... they didn't even like touching them.

Perhaps your children don't exhibit the same qualities that would give you the ability to see why some parents have more confidence in their children than other people have in theirs.

More importantly, after reading some of your posts here, and how immature you sound, I can understand why you would think a 16 yr old isn't mature enough.

NONE of that applies to a situation where a father coerced his daughter into a dangerous sea, not just dangerous but the most dangerous season for the most dangerous sea, in an undersized , mechanically unsound boat by herself. Defending that is indefensible.

As for my own maturity level.... I never denied that I often let debates drag me down to their level. I do it for a few reasons, not the least of which is the sheer joy of calling out dumb people for being dumb. Please don't even act like am I alone, or even in the minority there, b/c we both know that certainly isn't true.

Really? Drag you down to what level? Please show me where I come any where near what you did and said in this post? All it does appear to do is make you look foolish.

Get over your own arrogance and self importance.

 

[Againsheila]

No I don't consider this child abuse. She wanted to go and try sailing around the world, and the parents gave their consent. Rather like training for the Olympics and going for the gold, don't you think?

Yeah, perfect comparison if going for the gold meant being on your own in a dangerous environment for several months.

OMG Sweet Jesus when did people become so fucking stupid as to think a 16 y/o girl should be able to CHOOSE to do something like this?

If you think that please for the sake of your children give them up for adoption, if you haven't any children , please report for sterilization because YOU ARE TOO FUCKING STUPID AND IRRESPONSIBLE TO HAVE KIDS.

I am one of seven kids and I've raised one biological daughter and two stepsons, and I have three grandchildren, so I think I can speak from experience. Each one matured differently and were given different responsibilities at different ages based upon how experienced they were and how much we trusted them. We didn't use a generic rule when we decided what our children were capable of handling. One son got his license at 16 because we knew he was responsible enough to handle it ... the other two didn't get theirs until they were legally adults and we no longer had a say. That same child was very good with guns and bows and did well in competitions ... the other two, nope .... they didn't even like touching them.

Perhaps your children don't exhibit the same qualities that would give you the ability to see why some parents have more confidence in their children than other people have in theirs.

More importantly, after reading some of your posts here, and how immature you sound, I can understand why you would think a 16 yr old isn't mature enough.

Regardless of how mature the 16 year old is, she is not legally responsible for herself, unless of course she is an emancipated minor. What's the big deal about waiting 2 more years until she's legally responsible for herself and then she can sail around the world if she wants, it's her life. At 16, it's still the parent's responsibility to keep her safe, even from herself. They failed to do that.

If she were caught and raped and murdered by pirates, would you still be backing those irresponsible parents?