Your Vision For America

[Tech_Esq]

I would like to see the US go to the point just before Ronald Reagan took office and undo basically everything the neo-cons have done to this country. True conservatives and liberals could have done a far better job.

I think we should overturn US v. Darby and Griswold v. Connecticut. That ought to just about fix most things.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Very intelligent. And how long before we would be saluting a foriegn flag, idiot! The machinery and military that defend this nation are costly.

Well if it were true that the income tax were actually being used to defend our country I might have less of a problem with it. As it is, I don't like my income being used to fund the American empire around the world. If we got rid of the income tax we'd have to stop our military occupation of the at least 130 countries around the globe, but I don't see a problem with that. I also don't see a problem with the government having to spend less, and the private sector having more to spend or save.

 

[Skull Pilot]

That is caused by the bubble life, the echo chamber, the lack of thought. The DMS is being revised to include those under the spell of voodoo economics in the latest edition. Blaming the poor for everything is one of the major symptoms, you have a serious case and may need medical help. Good luck on finding your heart.

The Conservative Nanny State

I'm not blaming anyone you twit. I just disagreed with you that the "rich" use government services more than the poor. And FYI I am not in any financial percentile that would see any increase in taxes under the dimocrat tax raises. I hold the position that the government is too big, too intrusive and too expensive.

The only way to stop the government from being bigger, more intrusive and more expensive is to force it to function with less money.

As far as a flat tax is concerned, I am not wholly against the idea but I have come to prefer the Fair Tax plan. And BTW don't you think that if nearly 50% of the population cannot afford to pay taxes that the taxes are indeed too high?

 

[editec]

fuzzy math Ed

children in a family of four don't earn income and would not be taxed on it.

Nothing fuzzy about it.

A truly FAIRER tax (in that simplic thinking that the FLAT TAXERS demand, I mean) isn't a FLAT tax which taxes incomes, but a FLATTEST TAX which simply takes the total cost of government, divides it between ALL the citizens, and demands that EVERYONE PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE.

An idiotic way of thinking about FAIR taxation, you say?

Yeah, that's right. It is.

It is a childish way of thinking about what is fair, I quite agree.

As is the FLAT tax that so many nitwits on this board ALSO think is fair.

The FLAT TAX that some of you insist is so fair, is extremely unfair.

I just decided to use the same simplistic thinking you FLAT TAXERS are using to show you that I can find an even more simplitic FAIR system of taxation which is even less sane than the FLAT tax theory is.

We do not live in a world where such simplitic ideas result in anything being even remotely FAIR.

A FLAT tax makes perfect sense the monent we also have FAIR (as in completely equal) WAGES.

Until that time, that FLAT TAX system many advocate is goofy to the extreme.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Nothing fuzzy about it.

A truly FAIRER tax (in that simplic thinking that the FLAT TAXERS demand, I mean) isn't a FLAT tax which taxes incomes, but a FLATTEST TAX which simply takes the total cost of government, divides it between ALL the citizens, and demands that EVERYONE PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE.

An idiotic way of thinking about FAIR taxation, you say?

Yeah, that's right. It is.

It is a childish way of thinking about what is fair, I quite agree.

As is the FLAT tax that so many nitwits on this board ALSO think is fair.

The FLAT TAX that some of you insist is so fair, is extremely unfair.

I just decided to use the same simplistic thinking you FLAT TAXERS are using to show you that I can find an even more simplitic FAIR system of taxation which is even less sane than the FLAT tax theory is.

We do not live in a world where such simplitic ideas result in anything being even remotely FAIR.

A FLAT tax makes perfect sense the monent we also have FAIR (as in completely equal) WAGES.

Until that time, that FLAT TAX system many advocate is goofy to the extreme.

ed You know the flat taxers as you call them are not for assessing the exact amount but rather the same percentage to everyone.

 

[Old Rocks]

Well if it were true that the income tax were actually being used to defend our country I might have less of a problem with it. As it is, I don't like my income being used to fund the American empire around the world. If we got rid of the income tax we'd have to stop our military occupation of the at least 130 countries around the globe, but I don't see a problem with that. I also don't see a problem with the government having to spend less, and the private sector having more to spend or save.

I have a plan that would achieve what you say you want much faster. Bush has repeatedly stated that we are in a state of war. I have been repeatedly called treasonous for speaking out against the President, because we are at war, and speaking against the policies of the President is aiding the enemy. So, if we are at war, then put our tax system on exactly the same footing as we did during WW2. In two weeks, the wars would be over.

 

[editec]

ed You know the flat taxers as you call them are not for assessing the exact amount but rather the same percentage to everyone.

Exactly.

They don't really want a FAIR tax.

They want a tax that taxes the poor rich people MORE than it taxes the lucky poor people.

My plan taxes in that simplictic way they are using the word "fair" even more FAIRLY than theirs does.

My modest proposal of fairness here, is even less cognizant of the outcomes of implementing that childish concept of fairness than their is.

They talk about fairness as though, but for the system of taxation we have, the world is perfectly fair already!.

Such blind nonsense about what is fair appeals to children, but not to people who understand that there are many aspects to what constitutes what is TRULY a fair and just society.

I'll tell you who is REALLY getting screwed by this system...it's not the rich and its not the poor either...

It's the upper middle class who are REALLY getting screwed.

And WHY must they be screwed?

So the billionaires can get a pass on paying their FAIR SHARE of the taxes, that's why.

Now how the upper middle class who support FLAT TAX miss this most obvious fact I cannot say.

Seems astoundingly obvious to me.

When we cut the taxes on the superwealthy down from the 90% it once was, down to the 35% it now is, the superwealthy could STILL mess with their incomes such that they don't pay a very high percentage of the taxes.

Seldom do they pay anything remotely approaching that 35%.

Who does pay that percentage, though?

Working affluent middle and upper middle class people, that's who.

And you don't fix that by imposing a flat tax that would kill the poor.

What you do is increase the percentage of taxes that the people WITH MONEY pay.

Blaming the poor for the plight of the middle and upper class tax policies is boneheadedly stupid.

The poor, all those millions and millions of people reap about 3% of our total GDP.

Meanwhile the superwealthy, all half million of them (at best!) reap about one-third (I just made that number up, it's probably more) of the GDP, and they pay taxes on that far less than your average affluent working upper middle class person does.

Them what has the money must pay the bills to keep the system going that makes that luckey few so damned much money.

That seems drop dead obvious to me

But apparently many of the bourgeious class here on this board aren't quite observant enough to get that obvious fact.

The poor cannot pay a flat tax, they don't make enough to pay any taxes!

duh!

 

[DiamondDave]

Exactly.

They don't really want a FAIR tax.

They want a tax that taxes the poor rich people MORE than it taxes the lucky poor people.

My plan taxes in that simplictic way they are using the word "fair" even more FAIRLY than theirs does.

My modest proposal of fairness here, is even less cognizant of the outcomes of implementing that childish concept of fairness than their is.

They talk about fairness as though, but for the system of taxation we have, the world is perfectly fair already!.

Such blind nonsense about what is fair appeals to children, but not to people who understand that there are many aspects to what constitutes what is TRULY a fair and just society.

I'll tell you who is REALLY getting screwed by this system...it's not the rich and its not the poor either...

It's the upper middle class who are REALLY getting screwed.

And WHY must they be screwed?

So the billionaires can get a pass on paying their FAIR SHARE of the taxes, that's why.

Now how the upper middle class who support FLAT TAX miss this most obvious fact I cannot say.

Seems astoundingly obvious to me.

When we cut the taxes on the superwealthy down from the 90% it once was, down to the 35% it now is, the superwealthy could STILL mess with their incomes such that they don't pay a very high percentage of the taxes.

Seldom do they pay anything remotely approaching that 35%.

Who does pay that percentage, though?

Working affluent middle and upper middle class people, that's who.

And you don't fix that by imposing a flat tax that would kill the poor.

What you do is increase the percentage of taxes that the people WITH MONEY pay.

Blaming the poor for the plight of the middle and upper class tax policies is boneheadedly stupid.

The poor, all those millions and millions of people reap about 3% of our total GDP.

Meanwhile the superwealthy, all half million of them (at best!) reap about one-third (I just made that number up, it's probably more) of the GDP, and they pay taxes on that far less than your average affluent working upper middle class person does.

Them what has the money must pay the bills to keep the system going that makes that luckey few so damned much money.

That seems drop dead obvious to me

But apparently many of the bourgeious class here on this board aren't quite observant enough to get that obvious fact.

The poor cannot pay a flat tax, they don't make enough to pay any taxes!

duh!

Ahh.. the liberal idiocy continues on SO many level in this post... but let us pick out a few

The government runs on a yearly cycle with a yearly budget and assesses that budget and values each year... and as stated SO many times before, we are taxing income, earning, and all based on the dollar itself... we are not taxing the person themselves or a part of the person, nor are we taxing the person based on net worth... we also do not assess and levy individual taxes on minors... so your bullshit little system (which is more of a way to try and give a jab back against an annual assessed system based on equal percentage burden, than it is even close to a viable system) is nothing more than that, pure bullshit

It is not "Them what has the money must pay the bills"... it is EVERYONE NEEDS TO PAY... see... the little term of equality again that liberals hate... unless it refers to something like gay marriage.... everyone pays their share of their income.. notice the word share and not lump... the government assesses that it would take X% amount of all income, expenditures, etc to run the government over the next year... and that same % should be taken from all peoples as their share towards the upkeep of this country, it's defense, etc

And you notice that I am not using, nor do I use the word "fair".... it is a plan based on equal percentage burden... because "fair" is a subjective term, that even little morons like you can try and warp and twist to fit an argument (no matter how inane) or an agenda...

But no... you will continue to spew off slogans and unfounded crap statements like "it's the upper middle class getting screwed"... because it helps in your attempt to fool people for power, and keep them off the truth with the ever popular "make the rich pay for it" mantra

So consider the ever growing support of a flat tax as the support for a governmental tithe, that much like the religious tithe is based on percentage and not a lump sum... because even the ancients who did not even conceive of the concepts of the pulley, algebra, gravitational force, and compound interest, had the understanding that support of a system was better carried by all when based on percentage burden and not lump sum

 

[pegwinn]

So consider the ever growing support of a flat tax as the support for a governmental tithe, that much like the religious tithe is based on percentage and not a lump sum... because even the ancients who did not even conceive of the concepts of the pulley, algebra, gravitational force, and compound interest, had the understanding that support of a system was better carried by all when based on percentage burden and not lump sum

I hope you are mistaken about the growing support for the FLAT Tax. I hope you meant the Fairtax (H.R. 25) which is a national sales tax.

My tax priorities are simple.

Eliminate the Income Tax entirely and institute the FairTax.
-or-
Eliminate the Income Tax entirely and institute a Flat Income Tax
-or-
Vast, Vast, Draconian simplification of the current income tax code.

The first and second choices are not likely to take place in my lifetime. Too much political power already in place based on the tax code. Only a genuine tax revolt will fix it. I think number three is virtually impossible to get because the annual tweaks are just so much fun.

In a word, we are screwed.

 

[Bern80]

Exactly.

They don't really want a FAIR tax.

They want a tax that taxes the poor rich people MORE than it taxes the lucky poor people.

My plan taxes in that simplictic way they are using the word "fair" even more FAIRLY than theirs does.

My modest proposal of fairness here, is even less cognizant of the outcomes of implementing that childish concept of fairness than their is.........

Except those of us that know you well ed, know that you're arguing from a purely tongue in cheek point of view. As some silly attempt to show that the fair tax isn't fair. That taxing x percentage of every dollar is somehow not fair. Yes I get that you're simply trying to show how unfeasable a flat dollar amount levied against everyone would be. So just cut to the chase and say what you mean.

The question is why is taxing the percentage of a dollar unfair or even less fair than that (you can drop your feigned defense of the rich for that)?