.02% chance of death.... thats what we are destroying our nation over

[AzogtheDefiler]

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

Congrats, you have passed 4th grade math!

The point is, that this isn’t over. It’s actually a long way from being over. We aren’t shutting down the country because of the people that HAVE died. We are doing it to protect the people that WILL die. We are fighting to prevent 0.02% from becoming 0.1% or 1%.

No, we are not. The policy is wrong and will cost more lives than if no policy had been put in place.

That doesn’t seem likely. Did you see what happened in New York? Do you want that everywhere?

NY was an anomaly. Again odds of you dying if you’re under 59 are very slim.

NY was what happens when the virus takes hold before mitigation.

No. NYC happens when you infect nursing homes at a rapid rate. They are an outlier. Didn’t happen anywhere else in the country. And still 98% of those who died are those who either old and or very unhealthy. We can protect them and open the country. They were wrong in terms of how many hospital beds and ventilators they would need. Need to follow Sweden’s model.

Sweden’s Coronavirus Strategy Will Soon Be the World’s

Herd immunity is the only realistic option—the question is how to get there safely.

www.foreignaffairs.com

Nursing homes are everywhere dude. Unhealthy people are everywhere. Old people are everywhere.

The more you open up the country, the harder it is to protect them. Old, unhealthy, nursing home patients cannot exist in isolation. They are almost by definition reliant on others for activities of daily life.

And they can remain on lockdown. The rest of us should be able to go out and give the economy a boost. Set up testing at nursing homes to test those going in (workers). Vaccines are not 100% effective. When would you reopen?

Id reopen when we can identify, trace and isolate cases, like you do with any outbreak.

It’ll happen. It won’t be that long.

How long. Guesstimate.

Different place to place. Depends on how competent your state is.

I’m not a big fan of the “Jesus take the wheel” approach.

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

We are all going to get infected sooner or later

and those with underlying medical conditions will die from it

but everyone else will survive just as humans always have

I don't believe that's true. Not everyone gets the flu every year.

True

some of us may postpone the inevitable for two years

But sooner or later...

There's nothing inevitable about it.

I suppose total isolation in space might keep the chinese disease at bay

but here on earth only one person out of a million can live in total isolation

It doesn't require total isolation. It requires contact tracing and testing. Find out who has it, isolate them, find out who they possibly gave it to, test them, isolate those that turn out to be infect, etc. etc. etc. Find the disease, track it, end it.

Or spread it and allow for herd immunity.

Lets say there are 100 of us and 25 are old or at risk. We protect the 25 but we 75 go out. We all get it and then the virus has nowhere to go and dies out and then we release the remaining 25.

The very fact that 75 out of 100 has it means the 25 aren’t protected.

That’s how it always works. Healthy protect the vulnerable.

Here that’s what I thought we were doing by social distancing. The healthy are sacrificing to protect the vulnerable. Yet, what I’m hearing is that the healthy should not be “punished” and shouldn’t have to protect the vulnerable, who are only a very small percentage.

we protect them better by garnering herd immunity. This was supposed to flatten the curve not lockdown til there is a cure. By garnering herd immunity we protect the vulnerable. By doing what we are doing now we prolong the pain for everyone. ECONOMIC Pain is real. It’s lives vs lives not $$$ vs lives

There never was a curve to flatten. Even in the hardest hit New York where the deaths were deliberate the hospitals were never really overwhelmed.

Never overwhelmed? That's nonsense. They were totally overwhelmed. They were flying in doctors/nurses from all over the country. They had built hundreds of ICU beds into makeshift units in OR suites. It was nuts.

just because they brought in extra resources doesnt mean they were overwhelmed,,,only a few of the hospitals were overwhelmed while others barely saw an increase
if you look into it you will find that most of those resources werent used and later dismantled and went back from where they came,,,

Sorry dude, but I know people who were in the thick of it. It was a disaster.

I call bullshit!

Good for you.

They say it was a disaster but it was not. I want More statistical data such as how close to death were those who ultimately died from this. Such as those in nursing homes who had months or weeks to live anyway. Average age there is 85 and average life span is 80 in the US.

This statement suggests their lives aren’t as valuable.

They aren’t. They have lived 2x my lifespan. I’d gladly give up my life for my kids for example. Doesn’t mean I want to kill people but I want to make it as palatable as possible for everyone. Deaths are part of life. We have a car accident every 30 minutes in the US but we don’t stop driving.

We don’t treat them as less valuable.

Why can’t I drive 120 MPH down the interstate? I got a new car. I’d love to open it up.

most car deaths are at under 65 MPH,,,

Not my fault. I want to drive really fast. Why can’t I? what if I want to drive drunk? Or drive while texting?

go ahead nobodies stopping you,,,

The police don’t stop people who do so?
I don’t know where you come from, but in this country that’s not the case.

not if they dont see you,,,

Unfortunately I and my car are very much visible.

I cant see it from here,,,


face it your attempts to escalate this so you can push your fascist ideology is failing,,,,

The only thing that’s failing is your attempt to kill old people so you don’t have to pay their social security.
/s

No one is killing them. The onus is on nursing homes to provide a safer environment. You're killing many people and their businesses with your rhetoric but that is OK for you. You are very subjective with your ethics.

I was being sarcastic. The other poster was making ridiculous assertions which I turned back on him with equally ridiculous assertions.

Fair enough. Enjoy your debate with him.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

That is the weapon of choice for the left. That is the manner in which we will cause the total collapse of our own nation.

The fact that most people never even know they've had the virus and they recover from their symptomless death sentence of .02% means what in the big picture?

Do you refuse to get behind the wheel of a car because of the risk of death?
Do you refuse to live ANYWHERE where natural disasters regularly threaten lives?
Do you refuse to fly on a plane because of the risk of crashing?
Do you refuse to go swimming because of the risk of drowning?

I'm guessing you answered no to all those yet for some inexplicable reason you are scared to death of a viruse with a super low mortality rate...

Why?

Using a bit of common sense leads me to the conclusion that many are doing it to hurt Trump.

Yeah more will get sick. That is the nature of life and the risks it has ALWAYS posed. The mortality rate is still absurdly low for the archaic reactions of the left.

I'll feel more comfortable fully participating in the economy once there is the appropriate widespread testing, effective therapies and a vaccine. Right now we have none of that. I don't believe the Trump administration is capable, or even has any interest in providing any of that. And there is still much we do not know about this novel virus.

Plus Trump has convinced his cult followers that masks are for babies and social distancing is the devil.

So I think I'll hang back for awhile. But you do you, Grandpa. Go on and get a haircut and a tattoo. Cough all over each other. Touch your face. Shake hands. It'll be good for your immunity.

Let's shut down the economy until there is a Vaccine for AIDs too.

We'd be a third world country by now, if we had shut down the economy since the 1980s waiting for a vaccine.

You don't know if there is going to be a vaccine. You don't know if there is going to be a treatment for the infected. You don't even know if there will actually be a wide spread effective method for testing.

You don't know any of that. How many people have to lose their lives, to saticify your demands that may never be met?

Don't you care? You don't give a crap about people dying, as long as you get what you want?

Doesn't that make you a selfish uncaring bastard?

I'm not demanding anything, dotard.

I am telling you what *I* will do. I will follow the recommendations of doctors and science.

You can do whatever the hell you want. Lick a toilet, suck your fingers, cough in each other's mouths, share cigarettes.

See, thats where you're screwed up. You automatically think since someone isn't going to take a vaccine or wear a mask....that they're going to go suck on toilets, rush to the aisle where people are hacking up lungs etc. Basically, you're mad and lashing out at people who arent willing to go along with your tin pot authoritarians.

Wrong. I'm looking at video and images of people who are ignoring every bit of advice from doctors and scientists. They might as well be coughing in each other's mouths.

I'm not mad. I'm astonished by the stupidity of people who chose to rely on their gut instead of science. I'm impatient to see how well that works out.

I'm on the sidelines, watching the show. I have my COVID-19 special blend popcorn and I even braved Costco last week to replenish.

Btw, this is a yearly thing for me. We have a situation in my house that requires us to take serious precautions EVERY flu season. This is normal for me. Sucks for you I guess.

I am a scientist. I don't dismiss everything but take an analytical and risk calculation approach. Im amazed at how gullible the masses are and how they devour the hourly propaganda from an idiot mainstream media.

 

[bripat9643]

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

Congrats, you have passed 4th grade math!

The point is, that this isn’t over. It’s actually a long way from being over. We aren’t shutting down the country because of the people that HAVE died. We are doing it to protect the people that WILL die. We are fighting to prevent 0.02% from becoming 0.1% or 1%.

No, we are not. The policy is wrong and will cost more lives than if no policy had been put in place.

That doesn’t seem likely. Did you see what happened in New York? Do you want that everywhere?

NY was an anomaly. Again odds of you dying if you’re under 59 are very slim.

NY was what happens when the virus takes hold before mitigation.

No. NYC happens when you infect nursing homes at a rapid rate. They are an outlier. Didn’t happen anywhere else in the country. And still 98% of those who died are those who either old and or very unhealthy. We can protect them and open the country. They were wrong in terms of how many hospital beds and ventilators they would need. Need to follow Sweden’s model.

Sweden’s Coronavirus Strategy Will Soon Be the World’s

Herd immunity is the only realistic option—the question is how to get there safely.

www.foreignaffairs.com

Nursing homes are everywhere dude. Unhealthy people are everywhere. Old people are everywhere.

The more you open up the country, the harder it is to protect them. Old, unhealthy, nursing home patients cannot exist in isolation. They are almost by definition reliant on others for activities of daily life.

And they can remain on lockdown. The rest of us should be able to go out and give the economy a boost. Set up testing at nursing homes to test those going in (workers). Vaccines are not 100% effective. When would you reopen?

Id reopen when we can identify, trace and isolate cases, like you do with any outbreak.

It’ll happen. It won’t be that long.

How long. Guesstimate.

Different place to place. Depends on how competent your state is.

I’m not a big fan of the “Jesus take the wheel” approach.

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

We are all going to get infected sooner or later

and those with underlying medical conditions will die from it

but everyone else will survive just as humans always have

I don't believe that's true. Not everyone gets the flu every year.

True

some of us may postpone the inevitable for two years

But sooner or later...

There's nothing inevitable about it.

I suppose total isolation in space might keep the chinese disease at bay

but here on earth only one person out of a million can live in total isolation

It doesn't require total isolation. It requires contact tracing and testing. Find out who has it, isolate them, find out who they possibly gave it to, test them, isolate those that turn out to be infect, etc. etc. etc. Find the disease, track it, end it.

Or spread it and allow for herd immunity.

Lets say there are 100 of us and 25 are old or at risk. We protect the 25 but we 75 go out. We all get it and then the virus has nowhere to go and dies out and then we release the remaining 25.

The very fact that 75 out of 100 has it means the 25 aren’t protected.

That’s how it always works. Healthy protect the vulnerable.

Here that’s what I thought we were doing by social distancing. The healthy are sacrificing to protect the vulnerable. Yet, what I’m hearing is that the healthy should not be “punished” and shouldn’t have to protect the vulnerable, who are only a very small percentage.

we protect them better by garnering herd immunity. This was supposed to flatten the curve not lockdown til there is a cure. By garnering herd immunity we protect the vulnerable. By doing what we are doing now we prolong the pain for everyone. ECONOMIC Pain is real. It’s lives vs lives not $$$ vs lives

There never was a curve to flatten. Even in the hardest hit New York where the deaths were deliberate the hospitals were never really overwhelmed.

Never overwhelmed? That's nonsense. They were totally overwhelmed. They were flying in doctors/nurses from all over the country. They had built hundreds of ICU beds into makeshift units in OR suites. It was nuts.

just because they brought in extra resources doesnt mean they were overwhelmed,,,only a few of the hospitals were overwhelmed while others barely saw an increase
if you look into it you will find that most of those resources werent used and later dismantled and went back from where they came,,,

Sorry dude, but I know people who were in the thick of it. It was a disaster.

I call bullshit!

Good for you.

They say it was a disaster but it was not. I want More statistical data such as how close to death were those who ultimately died from this. Such as those in nursing homes who had months or weeks to live anyway. Average age there is 85 and average life span is 80 in the US.

This statement suggests their lives aren’t as valuable.

They aren’t. They have lived 2x my lifespan. I’d gladly give up my life for my kids for example. Doesn’t mean I want to kill people but I want to make it as palatable as possible for everyone. Deaths are part of life. We have a car accident every 30 minutes in the US but we don’t stop driving.

We don’t treat them as less valuable.

Why can’t I drive 120 MPH down the interstate? I got a new car. I’d love to open it up.

most car deaths are at under 65 MPH,,,

Not my fault. I want to drive really fast. Why can’t I? what if I want to drive drunk? Or drive while texting?

go ahead nobodies stopping you,,,

The police don’t stop people who do so?
I don’t know where you come from, but in this country that’s not the case.

not if they dont see you,,,

Unfortunately I and my car are very much visible.

I cant see it from here,,,


face it your attempts to escalate this so you can push your fascist ideology is failing,,,,

The only thing that’s failing is your attempt to kill old people so you don’t have to pay their social security.
/s

That kind of argument is the absolute lowest. Why should any decent person listen to you vermin?

 

[Cecilie1200]

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

Congrats, you have passed 4th grade math!

A math that you never use for the flu.
By the way, what would be the number if no county had shut down businesses?
Ah. That pesky context! Grampa doesn't do context.

By the way, do YOU know what the number would be with no lockdown? Can you actually prove that lockdowns have saved any lives, beyond just your ASSumptions?

Ah, that pesky two-way street. Leftists don't do having answers and plans; they only do demanding them from others.

 

[NotYourBody]

I will follow the recommendations from the CDC.

Is that you Marion Morrison-fake John Wayne?

Exactly what I would have expected from idiots who ignore science and go with their massive 'gut'.

The picture is exactly what I'd expect from you if told to find cover.

You think I would listen to anything you have to say? A gut-truster?

Bless your precious heart!

 

[Cecilie1200]

Most of those are because of Cuomo. Get rid of Cuomo problem solved.

What's Cuomo's approval rating in New York?
Then do Trump

Do I actually give a fuck what NYers approve of or disapprove of, especially given how much they marinate every day in misinformation and propaganda? As far as I'm concerned, they elected that dickweed; they deserve whatever they get from him.

As for Trump's approval ratings, the only one I care about happens in November, sweetie. And I definitely think you should cling to the whole "Destroy the country and then try to blame it on Trump" strategy. It's evil, but that's better than all the other plans, which were evil AND incompetent.

 

[NotYourBody]

That is the weapon of choice for the left. That is the manner in which we will cause the total collapse of our own nation.

The fact that most people never even know they've had the virus and they recover from their symptomless death sentence of .02% means what in the big picture?

Do you refuse to get behind the wheel of a car because of the risk of death?
Do you refuse to live ANYWHERE where natural disasters regularly threaten lives?
Do you refuse to fly on a plane because of the risk of crashing?
Do you refuse to go swimming because of the risk of drowning?

I'm guessing you answered no to all those yet for some inexplicable reason you are scared to death of a viruse with a super low mortality rate...

Why?

Using a bit of common sense leads me to the conclusion that many are doing it to hurt Trump.

Yeah more will get sick. That is the nature of life and the risks it has ALWAYS posed. The mortality rate is still absurdly low for the archaic reactions of the left.

I'll feel more comfortable fully participating in the economy once there is the appropriate widespread testing, effective therapies and a vaccine. Right now we have none of that. I don't believe the Trump administration is capable, or even has any interest in providing any of that. And there is still much we do not know about this novel virus.

Plus Trump has convinced his cult followers that masks are for babies and social distancing is the devil.

So I think I'll hang back for awhile. But you do you, Grandpa. Go on and get a haircut and a tattoo. Cough all over each other. Touch your face. Shake hands. It'll be good for your immunity.

Let's shut down the economy until there is a Vaccine for AIDs too.

We'd be a third world country by now, if we had shut down the economy since the 1980s waiting for a vaccine.

You don't know if there is going to be a vaccine. You don't know if there is going to be a treatment for the infected. You don't even know if there will actually be a wide spread effective method for testing.

You don't know any of that. How many people have to lose their lives, to saticify your demands that may never be met?

Don't you care? You don't give a crap about people dying, as long as you get what you want?

Doesn't that make you a selfish uncaring bastard?

I'm not demanding anything, dotard.

I am telling you what *I* will do. I will follow the recommendations of doctors and science.

You can do whatever the hell you want. Lick a toilet, suck your fingers, cough in each other's mouths, share cigarettes.

See, thats where you're screwed up. You automatically think since someone isn't going to take a vaccine or wear a mask....that they're going to go suck on toilets, rush to the aisle where people are hacking up lungs etc. Basically, you're mad and lashing out at people who arent willing to go along with your tin pot authoritarians.

Wrong. I'm looking at video and images of people who are ignoring every bit of advice from doctors and scientists. They might as well be coughing in each other's mouths.

I'm not mad. I'm astonished by the stupidity of people who chose to rely on their gut instead of science. I'm impatient to see how well that works out.

I'm on the sidelines, watching the show. I have my COVID-19 special blend popcorn and I even braved Costco last week to replenish.

Btw, this is a yearly thing for me. We have a situation in my house that requires us to take serious precautions EVERY flu season. This is normal for me. Sucks for you I guess.

I am a scientist. I don't dismiss everything but take an analytical and risk calculation approach. Im amazed at how gullible the masses are and how they devour the hourly propaganda from an idiot mainstream media.

So I guess you were not in the pictures I saw of people in a bar in Wisconsin basically talking directly into each other's mouths without a mask. Those people laugh at science, by God. And they are proud of it.

Those are the idiots I am amazed by.

 

[progressive hunter]

Man died of alcohol poisoning — but health officials later classified his death as coronavirus-related | Blaze Media

Something doesn't smell right here

www.theblaze.com

 

[progressive hunter]

That is the weapon of choice for the left. That is the manner in which we will cause the total collapse of our own nation.

The fact that most people never even know they've had the virus and they recover from their symptomless death sentence of .02% means what in the big picture?

Do you refuse to get behind the wheel of a car because of the risk of death?
Do you refuse to live ANYWHERE where natural disasters regularly threaten lives?
Do you refuse to fly on a plane because of the risk of crashing?
Do you refuse to go swimming because of the risk of drowning?

I'm guessing you answered no to all those yet for some inexplicable reason you are scared to death of a viruse with a super low mortality rate...

Why?

Using a bit of common sense leads me to the conclusion that many are doing it to hurt Trump.

Yeah more will get sick. That is the nature of life and the risks it has ALWAYS posed. The mortality rate is still absurdly low for the archaic reactions of the left.

I'll feel more comfortable fully participating in the economy once there is the appropriate widespread testing, effective therapies and a vaccine. Right now we have none of that. I don't believe the Trump administration is capable, or even has any interest in providing any of that. And there is still much we do not know about this novel virus.

Plus Trump has convinced his cult followers that masks are for babies and social distancing is the devil.

So I think I'll hang back for awhile. But you do you, Grandpa. Go on and get a haircut and a tattoo. Cough all over each other. Touch your face. Shake hands. It'll be good for your immunity.

Let's shut down the economy until there is a Vaccine for AIDs too.

We'd be a third world country by now, if we had shut down the economy since the 1980s waiting for a vaccine.

You don't know if there is going to be a vaccine. You don't know if there is going to be a treatment for the infected. You don't even know if there will actually be a wide spread effective method for testing.

You don't know any of that. How many people have to lose their lives, to saticify your demands that may never be met?

Don't you care? You don't give a crap about people dying, as long as you get what you want?

Doesn't that make you a selfish uncaring bastard?

I'm not demanding anything, dotard.

I am telling you what *I* will do. I will follow the recommendations of doctors and science.

You can do whatever the hell you want. Lick a toilet, suck your fingers, cough in each other's mouths, share cigarettes.

See, thats where you're screwed up. You automatically think since someone isn't going to take a vaccine or wear a mask....that they're going to go suck on toilets, rush to the aisle where people are hacking up lungs etc. Basically, you're mad and lashing out at people who arent willing to go along with your tin pot authoritarians.

Wrong. I'm looking at video and images of people who are ignoring every bit of advice from doctors and scientists. They might as well be coughing in each other's mouths.

I'm not mad. I'm astonished by the stupidity of people who chose to rely on their gut instead of science. I'm impatient to see how well that works out.

I'm on the sidelines, watching the show. I have my COVID-19 special blend popcorn and I even braved Costco last week to replenish.

Btw, this is a yearly thing for me. We have a situation in my house that requires us to take serious precautions EVERY flu season. This is normal for me. Sucks for you I guess.

I am a scientist. I don't dismiss everything but take an analytical and risk calculation approach. Im amazed at how gullible the masses are and how they devour the hourly propaganda from an idiot mainstream media.

So I guess you were not in the pictures I saw of people in a bar in Wisconsin basically talking directly into each other's mouths without a mask. Those people laugh at science, by God. And they are proud of it.

Those are the idiots I am amazed by.

gotta love living in a free country,,,

 

[LordBrownTrout]

That is the weapon of choice for the left. That is the manner in which we will cause the total collapse of our own nation.

The fact that most people never even know they've had the virus and they recover from their symptomless death sentence of .02% means what in the big picture?

Do you refuse to get behind the wheel of a car because of the risk of death?
Do you refuse to live ANYWHERE where natural disasters regularly threaten lives?
Do you refuse to fly on a plane because of the risk of crashing?
Do you refuse to go swimming because of the risk of drowning?

I'm guessing you answered no to all those yet for some inexplicable reason you are scared to death of a viruse with a super low mortality rate...

Why?

Using a bit of common sense leads me to the conclusion that many are doing it to hurt Trump.

Yeah more will get sick. That is the nature of life and the risks it has ALWAYS posed. The mortality rate is still absurdly low for the archaic reactions of the left.

I'll feel more comfortable fully participating in the economy once there is the appropriate widespread testing, effective therapies and a vaccine. Right now we have none of that. I don't believe the Trump administration is capable, or even has any interest in providing any of that. And there is still much we do not know about this novel virus.

Plus Trump has convinced his cult followers that masks are for babies and social distancing is the devil.

So I think I'll hang back for awhile. But you do you, Grandpa. Go on and get a haircut and a tattoo. Cough all over each other. Touch your face. Shake hands. It'll be good for your immunity.

Let's shut down the economy until there is a Vaccine for AIDs too.

We'd be a third world country by now, if we had shut down the economy since the 1980s waiting for a vaccine.

You don't know if there is going to be a vaccine. You don't know if there is going to be a treatment for the infected. You don't even know if there will actually be a wide spread effective method for testing.

You don't know any of that. How many people have to lose their lives, to saticify your demands that may never be met?

Don't you care? You don't give a crap about people dying, as long as you get what you want?

Doesn't that make you a selfish uncaring bastard?

I'm not demanding anything, dotard.

I am telling you what *I* will do. I will follow the recommendations of doctors and science.

You can do whatever the hell you want. Lick a toilet, suck your fingers, cough in each other's mouths, share cigarettes.

See, thats where you're screwed up. You automatically think since someone isn't going to take a vaccine or wear a mask....that they're going to go suck on toilets, rush to the aisle where people are hacking up lungs etc. Basically, you're mad and lashing out at people who arent willing to go along with your tin pot authoritarians.

Wrong. I'm looking at video and images of people who are ignoring every bit of advice from doctors and scientists. They might as well be coughing in each other's mouths.

I'm not mad. I'm astonished by the stupidity of people who chose to rely on their gut instead of science. I'm impatient to see how well that works out.

I'm on the sidelines, watching the show. I have my COVID-19 special blend popcorn and I even braved Costco last week to replenish.

Btw, this is a yearly thing for me. We have a situation in my house that requires us to take serious precautions EVERY flu season. This is normal for me. Sucks for you I guess.

I am a scientist. I don't dismiss everything but take an analytical and risk calculation approach. Im amazed at how gullible the masses are and how they devour the hourly propaganda from an idiot mainstream media.

So I guess you were not in the pictures I saw of people in a bar in Wisconsin basically talking directly into each other's mouths without a mask. Those people laugh at science, by God. And they are proud of it.

Those are the idiots I am amazed by.

So what. If they want to sit next to each other and talk, that's their decision. When I'm out, I still shake people's hands, dont wear a mask, and I don't look at people as threats. I don't live in fear.

 

[Dragonlady]

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

Congrats, you have passed 4th grade math!

The point is, that this isn’t over. It’s actually a long way from being over. We aren’t shutting down the country because of the people that HAVE died. We are doing it to protect the people that WILL die. We are fighting to prevent 0.02% from becoming 0.1% or 1%.

No, we are not. The policy is wrong and will cost more lives than if no policy had been put in place.

That doesn’t seem likely. Did you see what happened in New York? Do you want that everywhere?

NY was an anomaly. Again odds of you dying if you’re under 59 are very slim.

NY was what happens when the virus takes hold before mitigation.

No. NYC happens when you infect nursing homes at a rapid rate. They are an outlier. Didn’t happen anywhere else in the country. And still 98% of those who died are those who either old and or very unhealthy. We can protect them and open the country. They were wrong in terms of how many hospital beds and ventilators they would need. Need to follow Sweden’s model.

Sweden’s Coronavirus Strategy Will Soon Be the World’s

Herd immunity is the only realistic option—the question is how to get there safely.

www.foreignaffairs.com

Nursing homes are everywhere dude. Unhealthy people are everywhere. Old people are everywhere.

The more you open up the country, the harder it is to protect them. Old, unhealthy, nursing home patients cannot exist in isolation. They are almost by definition reliant on others for activities of daily life.

And they can remain on lockdown. The rest of us should be able to go out and give the economy a boost. Set up testing at nursing homes to test those going in (workers). Vaccines are not 100% effective. When would you reopen?

Id reopen when we can identify, trace and isolate cases, like you do with any outbreak.

It’ll happen. It won’t be that long.

How long. Guesstimate.

Different place to place. Depends on how competent your state is.

I’m not a big fan of the “Jesus take the wheel” approach.

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

We are all going to get infected sooner or later

and those with underlying medical conditions will die from it

but everyone else will survive just as humans always have

I don't believe that's true. Not everyone gets the flu every year.

True

some of us may postpone the inevitable for two years

But sooner or later...

There's nothing inevitable about it.

I suppose total isolation in space might keep the chinese disease at bay

but here on earth only one person out of a million can live in total isolation

It doesn't require total isolation. It requires contact tracing and testing. Find out who has it, isolate them, find out who they possibly gave it to, test them, isolate those that turn out to be infect, etc. etc. etc. Find the disease, track it, end it.

Or spread it and allow for herd immunity.

Lets say there are 100 of us and 25 are old or at risk. We protect the 25 but we 75 go out. We all get it and then the virus has nowhere to go and dies out and then we release the remaining 25.

The very fact that 75 out of 100 has it means the 25 aren’t protected.

That’s how it always works. Healthy protect the vulnerable.

Here that’s what I thought we were doing by social distancing. The healthy are sacrificing to protect the vulnerable. Yet, what I’m hearing is that the healthy should not be “punished” and shouldn’t have to protect the vulnerable, who are only a very small percentage.

we protect them better by garnering herd immunity. This was supposed to flatten the curve not lockdown til there is a cure. By garnering herd immunity we protect the vulnerable. By doing what we are doing now we prolong the pain for everyone. ECONOMIC Pain is real. It’s lives vs lives not $$$ vs lives

There never was a curve to flatten. Even in the hardest hit New York where the deaths were deliberate the hospitals were never really overwhelmed.

Never overwhelmed? That's nonsense. They were totally overwhelmed. They were flying in doctors/nurses from all over the country. They had built hundreds of ICU beds into makeshift units in OR suites. It was nuts.

just because they brought in extra resources doesnt mean they were overwhelmed,,,only a few of the hospitals were overwhelmed while others barely saw an increase
if you look into it you will find that most of those resources werent used and later dismantled and went back from where they came,,,

Sorry dude, but I know people who were in the thick of it. It was a disaster.

I call bullshit!

Good for you.

They say it was a disaster but it was not. I want More statistical data such as how close to death were those who ultimately died from this. Such as those in nursing homes who had months or weeks to live anyway. Average age there is 85 and average life span is 80 in the US.

This statement suggests their lives aren’t as valuable.

They aren’t. They have lived 2x my lifespan. I’d gladly give up my life for my kids for example. Doesn’t mean I want to kill people but I want to make it as palatable as possible for everyone. Deaths are part of life. We have a car accident every 30 minutes in the US but we don’t stop driving.

When someone is killed in a car accident, guilt is assessed, charges are laid, and the guilty party has to pay the injured party for their damages.

Trump is trying to make it so that if your employer doesn't take steps to protect you from the virus, you're not allowed to sue them for making you sick. And if you get sick, they cans till fire you, and you lose your health insurance.

What protections do the WORKERS have to keep them safe?

 

[NotYourBody]

That is the weapon of choice for the left. That is the manner in which we will cause the total collapse of our own nation.

The fact that most people never even know they've had the virus and they recover from their symptomless death sentence of .02% means what in the big picture?

Do you refuse to get behind the wheel of a car because of the risk of death?
Do you refuse to live ANYWHERE where natural disasters regularly threaten lives?
Do you refuse to fly on a plane because of the risk of crashing?
Do you refuse to go swimming because of the risk of drowning?

I'm guessing you answered no to all those yet for some inexplicable reason you are scared to death of a viruse with a super low mortality rate...

Why?

Using a bit of common sense leads me to the conclusion that many are doing it to hurt Trump.

Yeah more will get sick. That is the nature of life and the risks it has ALWAYS posed. The mortality rate is still absurdly low for the archaic reactions of the left.

I'll feel more comfortable fully participating in the economy once there is the appropriate widespread testing, effective therapies and a vaccine. Right now we have none of that. I don't believe the Trump administration is capable, or even has any interest in providing any of that. And there is still much we do not know about this novel virus.

Plus Trump has convinced his cult followers that masks are for babies and social distancing is the devil.

So I think I'll hang back for awhile. But you do you, Grandpa. Go on and get a haircut and a tattoo. Cough all over each other. Touch your face. Shake hands. It'll be good for your immunity.

Let's shut down the economy until there is a Vaccine for AIDs too.

We'd be a third world country by now, if we had shut down the economy since the 1980s waiting for a vaccine.

You don't know if there is going to be a vaccine. You don't know if there is going to be a treatment for the infected. You don't even know if there will actually be a wide spread effective method for testing.

You don't know any of that. How many people have to lose their lives, to saticify your demands that may never be met?

Don't you care? You don't give a crap about people dying, as long as you get what you want?

Doesn't that make you a selfish uncaring bastard?

I'm not demanding anything, dotard.

I am telling you what *I* will do. I will follow the recommendations of doctors and science.

You can do whatever the hell you want. Lick a toilet, suck your fingers, cough in each other's mouths, share cigarettes.

See, thats where you're screwed up. You automatically think since someone isn't going to take a vaccine or wear a mask....that they're going to go suck on toilets, rush to the aisle where people are hacking up lungs etc. Basically, you're mad and lashing out at people who arent willing to go along with your tin pot authoritarians.

Wrong. I'm looking at video and images of people who are ignoring every bit of advice from doctors and scientists. They might as well be coughing in each other's mouths.

I'm not mad. I'm astonished by the stupidity of people who chose to rely on their gut instead of science. I'm impatient to see how well that works out.

I'm on the sidelines, watching the show. I have my COVID-19 special blend popcorn and I even braved Costco last week to replenish.

Btw, this is a yearly thing for me. We have a situation in my house that requires us to take serious precautions EVERY flu season. This is normal for me. Sucks for you I guess.

I am a scientist. I don't dismiss everything but take an analytical and risk calculation approach. Im amazed at how gullible the masses are and how they devour the hourly propaganda from an idiot mainstream media.

So I guess you were not in the pictures I saw of people in a bar in Wisconsin basically talking directly into each other's mouths without a mask. Those people laugh at science, by God. And they are proud of it.

Those are the idiots I am amazed by.

So what. If they want to sit next to each other and talk, that's their decision. When I'm out, I still shake people's hands, dont wear a mask, and I don't look at people as threats. I don't live in fear.

What kind of scientist are you, exactly?

 

[Dragonlady]

It makes one think there might be ulterior and maybe even nefarious motives.

The old adage, “Follow the money,” might apply.

Yeah, Trump is funnelling millions to big corporations. He wants to keep this going so he and his buddies can loot the treasury. No oversight on the distribution. Trump fired the IG doing oversight. That's dirty as hell.

Oh, TRUMP is? And now you're going to explain in detail how Trump specifically is doing this, right? Something more than just, "I want to believe everything in America is bad, and I want to believe it's all Trump's personal fault . . . because ORANGE MAN BAAAAAD!!!"

When are you going to get it through your thick head that I'm not here to do your bidding? I realize that cultists are lazy and self absorbed when you want everything spoonfed to you, it's easy to see why you believe Trump. Just suspend all critical disbelief and life is goo. If you want information, you're going to have to use google. I've not your personal servant.

I've already posted 5 different links to these latest abuses. Read the thread, Karen.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

That is the weapon of choice for the left. That is the manner in which we will cause the total collapse of our own nation.

The fact that most people never even know they've had the virus and they recover from their symptomless death sentence of .02% means what in the big picture?

Do you refuse to get behind the wheel of a car because of the risk of death?
Do you refuse to live ANYWHERE where natural disasters regularly threaten lives?
Do you refuse to fly on a plane because of the risk of crashing?
Do you refuse to go swimming because of the risk of drowning?

I'm guessing you answered no to all those yet for some inexplicable reason you are scared to death of a viruse with a super low mortality rate...

Why?

Using a bit of common sense leads me to the conclusion that many are doing it to hurt Trump.

Yeah more will get sick. That is the nature of life and the risks it has ALWAYS posed. The mortality rate is still absurdly low for the archaic reactions of the left.

I'll feel more comfortable fully participating in the economy once there is the appropriate widespread testing, effective therapies and a vaccine. Right now we have none of that. I don't believe the Trump administration is capable, or even has any interest in providing any of that. And there is still much we do not know about this novel virus.

Plus Trump has convinced his cult followers that masks are for babies and social distancing is the devil.

So I think I'll hang back for awhile. But you do you, Grandpa. Go on and get a haircut and a tattoo. Cough all over each other. Touch your face. Shake hands. It'll be good for your immunity.

Let's shut down the economy until there is a Vaccine for AIDs too.

We'd be a third world country by now, if we had shut down the economy since the 1980s waiting for a vaccine.

You don't know if there is going to be a vaccine. You don't know if there is going to be a treatment for the infected. You don't even know if there will actually be a wide spread effective method for testing.

You don't know any of that. How many people have to lose their lives, to saticify your demands that may never be met?

Don't you care? You don't give a crap about people dying, as long as you get what you want?

Doesn't that make you a selfish uncaring bastard?

I'm not demanding anything, dotard.

I am telling you what *I* will do. I will follow the recommendations of doctors and science.

You can do whatever the hell you want. Lick a toilet, suck your fingers, cough in each other's mouths, share cigarettes.

See, thats where you're screwed up. You automatically think since someone isn't going to take a vaccine or wear a mask....that they're going to go suck on toilets, rush to the aisle where people are hacking up lungs etc. Basically, you're mad and lashing out at people who arent willing to go along with your tin pot authoritarians.

Wrong. I'm looking at video and images of people who are ignoring every bit of advice from doctors and scientists. They might as well be coughing in each other's mouths.

I'm not mad. I'm astonished by the stupidity of people who chose to rely on their gut instead of science. I'm impatient to see how well that works out.

I'm on the sidelines, watching the show. I have my COVID-19 special blend popcorn and I even braved Costco last week to replenish.

Btw, this is a yearly thing for me. We have a situation in my house that requires us to take serious precautions EVERY flu season. This is normal for me. Sucks for you I guess.

I am a scientist. I don't dismiss everything but take an analytical and risk calculation approach. Im amazed at how gullible the masses are and how they devour the hourly propaganda from an idiot mainstream media.

So I guess you were not in the pictures I saw of people in a bar in Wisconsin basically talking directly into each other's mouths without a mask. Those people laugh at science, by God. And they are proud of it.

Those are the idiots I am amazed by.

So what. If they want to sit next to each other and talk, that's their decision. When I'm out, I still shake people's hands, dont wear a mask, and I don't look at people as threats. I don't live in fear.

What kind of scientist are you, exactly?

Geochemist. Anyway, it looks like you've made decisions for you and your family. I applaud your reasoning.

 

[colfax_m]

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

Congrats, you have passed 4th grade math!

The point is, that this isn’t over. It’s actually a long way from being over. We aren’t shutting down the country because of the people that HAVE died. We are doing it to protect the people that WILL die. We are fighting to prevent 0.02% from becoming 0.1% or 1%.

No, we are not. The policy is wrong and will cost more lives than if no policy had been put in place.

That doesn’t seem likely. Did you see what happened in New York? Do you want that everywhere?

NY was an anomaly. Again odds of you dying if you’re under 59 are very slim.

NY was what happens when the virus takes hold before mitigation.

No. NYC happens when you infect nursing homes at a rapid rate. They are an outlier. Didn’t happen anywhere else in the country. And still 98% of those who died are those who either old and or very unhealthy. We can protect them and open the country. They were wrong in terms of how many hospital beds and ventilators they would need. Need to follow Sweden’s model.

Sweden’s Coronavirus Strategy Will Soon Be the World’s

Herd immunity is the only realistic option—the question is how to get there safely.

www.foreignaffairs.com

Nursing homes are everywhere dude. Unhealthy people are everywhere. Old people are everywhere.

The more you open up the country, the harder it is to protect them. Old, unhealthy, nursing home patients cannot exist in isolation. They are almost by definition reliant on others for activities of daily life.

And they can remain on lockdown. The rest of us should be able to go out and give the economy a boost. Set up testing at nursing homes to test those going in (workers). Vaccines are not 100% effective. When would you reopen?

Id reopen when we can identify, trace and isolate cases, like you do with any outbreak.

It’ll happen. It won’t be that long.

How long. Guesstimate.

Different place to place. Depends on how competent your state is.

I’m not a big fan of the “Jesus take the wheel” approach.

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

We are all going to get infected sooner or later

and those with underlying medical conditions will die from it

but everyone else will survive just as humans always have

I don't believe that's true. Not everyone gets the flu every year.

True

some of us may postpone the inevitable for two years

But sooner or later...

There's nothing inevitable about it.

I suppose total isolation in space might keep the chinese disease at bay

but here on earth only one person out of a million can live in total isolation

It doesn't require total isolation. It requires contact tracing and testing. Find out who has it, isolate them, find out who they possibly gave it to, test them, isolate those that turn out to be infect, etc. etc. etc. Find the disease, track it, end it.

Or spread it and allow for herd immunity.

Lets say there are 100 of us and 25 are old or at risk. We protect the 25 but we 75 go out. We all get it and then the virus has nowhere to go and dies out and then we release the remaining 25.

The very fact that 75 out of 100 has it means the 25 aren’t protected.

That’s how it always works. Healthy protect the vulnerable.

Here that’s what I thought we were doing by social distancing. The healthy are sacrificing to protect the vulnerable. Yet, what I’m hearing is that the healthy should not be “punished” and shouldn’t have to protect the vulnerable, who are only a very small percentage.

we protect them better by garnering herd immunity. This was supposed to flatten the curve not lockdown til there is a cure. By garnering herd immunity we protect the vulnerable. By doing what we are doing now we prolong the pain for everyone. ECONOMIC Pain is real. It’s lives vs lives not $$$ vs lives

There never was a curve to flatten. Even in the hardest hit New York where the deaths were deliberate the hospitals were never really overwhelmed.

Never overwhelmed? That's nonsense. They were totally overwhelmed. They were flying in doctors/nurses from all over the country. They had built hundreds of ICU beds into makeshift units in OR suites. It was nuts.

just because they brought in extra resources doesnt mean they were overwhelmed,,,only a few of the hospitals were overwhelmed while others barely saw an increase
if you look into it you will find that most of those resources werent used and later dismantled and went back from where they came,,,

Sorry dude, but I know people who were in the thick of it. It was a disaster.

I call bullshit!

Good for you.

They say it was a disaster but it was not. I want More statistical data such as how close to death were those who ultimately died from this. Such as those in nursing homes who had months or weeks to live anyway. Average age there is 85 and average life span is 80 in the US.

This statement suggests their lives aren’t as valuable.

They aren’t. They have lived 2x my lifespan. I’d gladly give up my life for my kids for example. Doesn’t mean I want to kill people but I want to make it as palatable as possible for everyone. Deaths are part of life. We have a car accident every 30 minutes in the US but we don’t stop driving.

We don’t treat them as less valuable.

Why can’t I drive 120 MPH down the interstate? I got a new car. I’d love to open it up.

most car deaths are at under 65 MPH,,,

Not my fault. I want to drive really fast. Why can’t I? what if I want to drive drunk? Or drive while texting?

go ahead nobodies stopping you,,,

The police don’t stop people who do so?
I don’t know where you come from, but in this country that’s not the case.

not if they dont see you,,,

Unfortunately I and my car are very much visible.

I cant see it from here,,,


face it your attempts to escalate this so you can push your fascist ideology is failing,,,,

The only thing that’s failing is your attempt to kill old people so you don’t have to pay their social security.
/s

you are so pathetic,,,

Face it. You want as many old people to get COVID as possible in order to reduce the federal deficit. You want them killed off by November so that they don’t vote for Biden.
/s

if that were true then the 84 yr old women living with us would be dead and shes not,,,

Pfft, keeping someone alive so you can take her SS check isn’t virtuous.
/s

 

[colfax_m]

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

Congrats, you have passed 4th grade math!

The point is, that this isn’t over. It’s actually a long way from being over. We aren’t shutting down the country because of the people that HAVE died. We are doing it to protect the people that WILL die. We are fighting to prevent 0.02% from becoming 0.1% or 1%.

No, we are not. The policy is wrong and will cost more lives than if no policy had been put in place.

That doesn’t seem likely. Did you see what happened in New York? Do you want that everywhere?

NY was an anomaly. Again odds of you dying if you’re under 59 are very slim.

NY was what happens when the virus takes hold before mitigation.

No. NYC happens when you infect nursing homes at a rapid rate. They are an outlier. Didn’t happen anywhere else in the country. And still 98% of those who died are those who either old and or very unhealthy. We can protect them and open the country. They were wrong in terms of how many hospital beds and ventilators they would need. Need to follow Sweden’s model.

Sweden’s Coronavirus Strategy Will Soon Be the World’s

Herd immunity is the only realistic option—the question is how to get there safely.

www.foreignaffairs.com

Nursing homes are everywhere dude. Unhealthy people are everywhere. Old people are everywhere.

The more you open up the country, the harder it is to protect them. Old, unhealthy, nursing home patients cannot exist in isolation. They are almost by definition reliant on others for activities of daily life.

And they can remain on lockdown. The rest of us should be able to go out and give the economy a boost. Set up testing at nursing homes to test those going in (workers). Vaccines are not 100% effective. When would you reopen?

Id reopen when we can identify, trace and isolate cases, like you do with any outbreak.

It’ll happen. It won’t be that long.

How long. Guesstimate.

Different place to place. Depends on how competent your state is.

I’m not a big fan of the “Jesus take the wheel” approach.

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

We are all going to get infected sooner or later

and those with underlying medical conditions will die from it

but everyone else will survive just as humans always have

I don't believe that's true. Not everyone gets the flu every year.

True

some of us may postpone the inevitable for two years

But sooner or later...

There's nothing inevitable about it.

I suppose total isolation in space might keep the chinese disease at bay

but here on earth only one person out of a million can live in total isolation

It doesn't require total isolation. It requires contact tracing and testing. Find out who has it, isolate them, find out who they possibly gave it to, test them, isolate those that turn out to be infect, etc. etc. etc. Find the disease, track it, end it.

Or spread it and allow for herd immunity.

Lets say there are 100 of us and 25 are old or at risk. We protect the 25 but we 75 go out. We all get it and then the virus has nowhere to go and dies out and then we release the remaining 25.

The very fact that 75 out of 100 has it means the 25 aren’t protected.

That’s how it always works. Healthy protect the vulnerable.

Here that’s what I thought we were doing by social distancing. The healthy are sacrificing to protect the vulnerable. Yet, what I’m hearing is that the healthy should not be “punished” and shouldn’t have to protect the vulnerable, who are only a very small percentage.

we protect them better by garnering herd immunity. This was supposed to flatten the curve not lockdown til there is a cure. By garnering herd immunity we protect the vulnerable. By doing what we are doing now we prolong the pain for everyone. ECONOMIC Pain is real. It’s lives vs lives not $$$ vs lives

There never was a curve to flatten. Even in the hardest hit New York where the deaths were deliberate the hospitals were never really overwhelmed.

Never overwhelmed? That's nonsense. They were totally overwhelmed. They were flying in doctors/nurses from all over the country. They had built hundreds of ICU beds into makeshift units in OR suites. It was nuts.

just because they brought in extra resources doesnt mean they were overwhelmed,,,only a few of the hospitals were overwhelmed while others barely saw an increase
if you look into it you will find that most of those resources werent used and later dismantled and went back from where they came,,,

Sorry dude, but I know people who were in the thick of it. It was a disaster.

I call bullshit!

Good for you.

They say it was a disaster but it was not. I want More statistical data such as how close to death were those who ultimately died from this. Such as those in nursing homes who had months or weeks to live anyway. Average age there is 85 and average life span is 80 in the US.

This statement suggests their lives aren’t as valuable.

They aren’t. They have lived 2x my lifespan. I’d gladly give up my life for my kids for example. Doesn’t mean I want to kill people but I want to make it as palatable as possible for everyone. Deaths are part of life. We have a car accident every 30 minutes in the US but we don’t stop driving.

We don’t treat them as less valuable.

Why can’t I drive 120 MPH down the interstate? I got a new car. I’d love to open it up.

You actually can. Many do. You should not but your car is not maxed out at 60MPH.

Back to playing games? You know understand the point of the question.

Nope. When I buy a car I know the laws. You cannot just change the laws after I buy it via an executive order. Happened in Wisconsin and was overturned. I don't believe this is a major crisis so go through the proper procedures.

You can always change the laws. Laws aren’t written in stone. The speed limit can be 60 one day, 65 the next. Laws change. Situations change.

You said we don’t outlaw driving because it is dangerous. Well, we put limits on it specifically to make it less dangerous.

Laws don't change via a whim from the Governor. If you want to fine me for going to a bar then so be it but don't ban me from doing it. What if they say driving over 30 is dangerous? You think people would just accept that? They went too far with this.

Governors have emergency powers granted them by the legislature so that they can respond to crises such as this.

Except I do not believe a virus that kills 1 out of every 10k in population is an "emergency" and other states are open so many disagree with him. Even NY is opened today. As more data comes out I believe his "emergency" is a false statement. So if an Islamist kills 100 people in Boston, does Baker have the power to arrest all Islamists? Where does his power end? Honest question. In March we were unsure how deadly this is. Now we see it is statistically minor. Why isn't MA open when NY is?

Your disagreement is noted. I’m sure you’ll consider that the next time you vote for dictator.

Didn’t they shut down Boston when they were hunting down the marathon bomber?

 

[Marion Morrison]

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

Congrats, you have passed 4th grade math!

The point is, that this isn’t over. It’s actually a long way from being over. We aren’t shutting down the country because of the people that HAVE died. We are doing it to protect the people that WILL die. We are fighting to prevent 0.02% from becoming 0.1% or 1%.

No, we are not. The policy is wrong and will cost more lives than if no policy had been put in place.

That doesn’t seem likely. Did you see what happened in New York? Do you want that everywhere?

NY was an anomaly. Again odds of you dying if you’re under 59 are very slim.

NY was what happens when the virus takes hold before mitigation.

No. NYC happens when you infect nursing homes at a rapid rate. They are an outlier. Didn’t happen anywhere else in the country. And still 98% of those who died are those who either old and or very unhealthy. We can protect them and open the country. They were wrong in terms of how many hospital beds and ventilators they would need. Need to follow Sweden’s model.

Sweden’s Coronavirus Strategy Will Soon Be the World’s

Herd immunity is the only realistic option—the question is how to get there safely.

www.foreignaffairs.com

Nursing homes are everywhere dude. Unhealthy people are everywhere. Old people are everywhere.

The more you open up the country, the harder it is to protect them. Old, unhealthy, nursing home patients cannot exist in isolation. They are almost by definition reliant on others for activities of daily life.

And they can remain on lockdown. The rest of us should be able to go out and give the economy a boost. Set up testing at nursing homes to test those going in (workers). Vaccines are not 100% effective. When would you reopen?

Id reopen when we can identify, trace and isolate cases, like you do with any outbreak.

It’ll happen. It won’t be that long.

How long. Guesstimate.

Different place to place. Depends on how competent your state is.

I’m not a big fan of the “Jesus take the wheel” approach.

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

We are all going to get infected sooner or later

and those with underlying medical conditions will die from it

but everyone else will survive just as humans always have

I don't believe that's true. Not everyone gets the flu every year.

True

some of us may postpone the inevitable for two years

But sooner or later...

There's nothing inevitable about it.

I suppose total isolation in space might keep the chinese disease at bay

but here on earth only one person out of a million can live in total isolation

It doesn't require total isolation. It requires contact tracing and testing. Find out who has it, isolate them, find out who they possibly gave it to, test them, isolate those that turn out to be infect, etc. etc. etc. Find the disease, track it, end it.

Or spread it and allow for herd immunity.

Lets say there are 100 of us and 25 are old or at risk. We protect the 25 but we 75 go out. We all get it and then the virus has nowhere to go and dies out and then we release the remaining 25.

The very fact that 75 out of 100 has it means the 25 aren’t protected.

That’s how it always works. Healthy protect the vulnerable.

Here that’s what I thought we were doing by social distancing. The healthy are sacrificing to protect the vulnerable. Yet, what I’m hearing is that the healthy should not be “punished” and shouldn’t have to protect the vulnerable, who are only a very small percentage.

we protect them better by garnering herd immunity. This was supposed to flatten the curve not lockdown til there is a cure. By garnering herd immunity we protect the vulnerable. By doing what we are doing now we prolong the pain for everyone. ECONOMIC Pain is real. It’s lives vs lives not $$$ vs lives

There never was a curve to flatten. Even in the hardest hit New York where the deaths were deliberate the hospitals were never really overwhelmed.

Never overwhelmed? That's nonsense. They were totally overwhelmed. They were flying in doctors/nurses from all over the country. They had built hundreds of ICU beds into makeshift units in OR suites. It was nuts.

just because they brought in extra resources doesnt mean they were overwhelmed,,,only a few of the hospitals were overwhelmed while others barely saw an increase
if you look into it you will find that most of those resources werent used and later dismantled and went back from where they came,,,

Sorry dude, but I know people who were in the thick of it. It was a disaster.

I call bullshit!

Good for you.

They say it was a disaster but it was not. I want More statistical data such as how close to death were those who ultimately died from this. Such as those in nursing homes who had months or weeks to live anyway. Average age there is 85 and average life span is 80 in the US.

This statement suggests their lives aren’t as valuable.

They aren’t. They have lived 2x my lifespan. I’d gladly give up my life for my kids for example. Doesn’t mean I want to kill people but I want to make it as palatable as possible for everyone. Deaths are part of life. We have a car accident every 30 minutes in the US but we don’t stop driving.

We don’t treat them as less valuable.

Why can’t I drive 120 MPH down the interstate? I got a new car. I’d love to open it up.

most car deaths are at under 65 MPH,,,

Not my fault. I want to drive really fast. Why can’t I? what if I want to drive drunk? Or drive while texting?

go ahead nobodies stopping you,,,

The police don’t stop people who do so?
I don’t know where you come from, but in this country that’s not the case.

not if they dont see you,,,

Unfortunately I and my car are very much visible.

I cant see it from here,,,


face it your attempts to escalate this so you can push your fascist ideology is failing,,,,

The only thing that’s failing is your attempt to kill old people so you don’t have to pay their social security.
/s

you are so pathetic,,,

Face it. You want as many old people to get COVID as possible in order to reduce the federal deficit. You want them killed off by November so that they don’t vote for Biden.
/s

if that were true then the 84 yr old women living with us would be dead and shes not,,,

Pfft, keeping someone alive so you can take her SS check isn’t virtuous.
/s

You're no pillar of virtue, you advocate for baby-killings turd!
You don't even know what right is, STFU!
Right is what you oppose, dumbass.

 

[progressive hunter]

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

Congrats, you have passed 4th grade math!

The point is, that this isn’t over. It’s actually a long way from being over. We aren’t shutting down the country because of the people that HAVE died. We are doing it to protect the people that WILL die. We are fighting to prevent 0.02% from becoming 0.1% or 1%.

No, we are not. The policy is wrong and will cost more lives than if no policy had been put in place.

That doesn’t seem likely. Did you see what happened in New York? Do you want that everywhere?

NY was an anomaly. Again odds of you dying if you’re under 59 are very slim.

NY was what happens when the virus takes hold before mitigation.

No. NYC happens when you infect nursing homes at a rapid rate. They are an outlier. Didn’t happen anywhere else in the country. And still 98% of those who died are those who either old and or very unhealthy. We can protect them and open the country. They were wrong in terms of how many hospital beds and ventilators they would need. Need to follow Sweden’s model.

Sweden’s Coronavirus Strategy Will Soon Be the World’s

Herd immunity is the only realistic option—the question is how to get there safely.

www.foreignaffairs.com

Nursing homes are everywhere dude. Unhealthy people are everywhere. Old people are everywhere.

The more you open up the country, the harder it is to protect them. Old, unhealthy, nursing home patients cannot exist in isolation. They are almost by definition reliant on others for activities of daily life.

And they can remain on lockdown. The rest of us should be able to go out and give the economy a boost. Set up testing at nursing homes to test those going in (workers). Vaccines are not 100% effective. When would you reopen?

Id reopen when we can identify, trace and isolate cases, like you do with any outbreak.

It’ll happen. It won’t be that long.

How long. Guesstimate.

Different place to place. Depends on how competent your state is.

I’m not a big fan of the “Jesus take the wheel” approach.

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

We are all going to get infected sooner or later

and those with underlying medical conditions will die from it

but everyone else will survive just as humans always have

I don't believe that's true. Not everyone gets the flu every year.

True

some of us may postpone the inevitable for two years

But sooner or later...

There's nothing inevitable about it.

I suppose total isolation in space might keep the chinese disease at bay

but here on earth only one person out of a million can live in total isolation

It doesn't require total isolation. It requires contact tracing and testing. Find out who has it, isolate them, find out who they possibly gave it to, test them, isolate those that turn out to be infect, etc. etc. etc. Find the disease, track it, end it.

Or spread it and allow for herd immunity.

Lets say there are 100 of us and 25 are old or at risk. We protect the 25 but we 75 go out. We all get it and then the virus has nowhere to go and dies out and then we release the remaining 25.

The very fact that 75 out of 100 has it means the 25 aren’t protected.

That’s how it always works. Healthy protect the vulnerable.

Here that’s what I thought we were doing by social distancing. The healthy are sacrificing to protect the vulnerable. Yet, what I’m hearing is that the healthy should not be “punished” and shouldn’t have to protect the vulnerable, who are only a very small percentage.

we protect them better by garnering herd immunity. This was supposed to flatten the curve not lockdown til there is a cure. By garnering herd immunity we protect the vulnerable. By doing what we are doing now we prolong the pain for everyone. ECONOMIC Pain is real. It’s lives vs lives not $$$ vs lives

There never was a curve to flatten. Even in the hardest hit New York where the deaths were deliberate the hospitals were never really overwhelmed.

Never overwhelmed? That's nonsense. They were totally overwhelmed. They were flying in doctors/nurses from all over the country. They had built hundreds of ICU beds into makeshift units in OR suites. It was nuts.

just because they brought in extra resources doesnt mean they were overwhelmed,,,only a few of the hospitals were overwhelmed while others barely saw an increase
if you look into it you will find that most of those resources werent used and later dismantled and went back from where they came,,,

Sorry dude, but I know people who were in the thick of it. It was a disaster.

I call bullshit!

Good for you.

They say it was a disaster but it was not. I want More statistical data such as how close to death were those who ultimately died from this. Such as those in nursing homes who had months or weeks to live anyway. Average age there is 85 and average life span is 80 in the US.

This statement suggests their lives aren’t as valuable.

They aren’t. They have lived 2x my lifespan. I’d gladly give up my life for my kids for example. Doesn’t mean I want to kill people but I want to make it as palatable as possible for everyone. Deaths are part of life. We have a car accident every 30 minutes in the US but we don’t stop driving.

When someone is killed in a car accident, guilt is assessed, charges are laid, and the guilty party has to pay the injured party for their damages.

Trump is trying to make it so that if your employer doesn't take steps to protect you from the virus, you're not allowed to sue them for making you sick. And if you get sick, they cans till fire you, and you lose your health insurance.

What protections do the WORKERS have to keep them safe?

that would mean something if they are forced to work,, in this country nobody is forced to work,,,

and how do you prove they got infected at work???
you cant,,,

 

[Dragonlady]

That is the weapon of choice for the left. That is the manner in which we will cause the total collapse of our own nation.

The fact that most people never even know they've had the virus and they recover from their symptomless death sentence of .02% means what in the big picture?

Do you refuse to get behind the wheel of a car because of the risk of death?
Do you refuse to live ANYWHERE where natural disasters regularly threaten lives?
Do you refuse to fly on a plane because of the risk of crashing?
Do you refuse to go swimming because of the risk of drowning?

I'm guessing you answered no to all those yet for some inexplicable reason you are scared to death of a viruse with a super low mortality rate...

Why?

Using a bit of common sense leads me to the conclusion that many are doing it to hurt Trump.

Yeah more will get sick. That is the nature of life and the risks it has ALWAYS posed. The mortality rate is still absurdly low for the archaic reactions of the left.

I'll feel more comfortable fully participating in the economy once there is the appropriate widespread testing, effective therapies and a vaccine. Right now we have none of that. I don't believe the Trump administration is capable, or even has any interest in providing any of that. And there is still much we do not know about this novel virus.

Plus Trump has convinced his cult followers that masks are for babies and social distancing is the devil.

So I think I'll hang back for awhile. But you do you, Grandpa. Go on and get a haircut and a tattoo. Cough all over each other. Touch your face. Shake hands. It'll be good for your immunity.

Let's shut down the economy until there is a Vaccine for AIDs too.

We'd be a third world country by now, if we had shut down the economy since the 1980s waiting for a vaccine.

You don't know if there is going to be a vaccine. You don't know if there is going to be a treatment for the infected. You don't even know if there will actually be a wide spread effective method for testing.

You don't know any of that. How many people have to lose their lives, to saticify your demands that may never be met?

Don't you care? You don't give a crap about people dying, as long as you get what you want?

Doesn't that make you a selfish uncaring bastard?

I'm not demanding anything, dotard.

I am telling you what *I* will do. I will follow the recommendations of doctors and science.

You can do whatever the hell you want. Lick a toilet, suck your fingers, cough in each other's mouths, share cigarettes.

See, thats where you're screwed up. You automatically think since someone isn't going to take a vaccine or wear a mask....that they're going to go suck on toilets, rush to the aisle where people are hacking up lungs etc. Basically, you're mad and lashing out at people who arent willing to go along with your tin pot authoritarians.

Wrong. I'm looking at video and images of people who are ignoring every bit of advice from doctors and scientists. They might as well be coughing in each other's mouths.

I'm not mad. I'm astonished by the stupidity of people who chose to rely on their gut instead of science. I'm impatient to see how well that works out.

I'm on the sidelines, watching the show. I have my COVID-19 special blend popcorn and I even braved Costco last week to replenish.

Btw, this is a yearly thing for me. We have a situation in my house that requires us to take serious precautions EVERY flu season. This is normal for me. Sucks for you I guess.

I am a scientist. I don't dismiss everything but take an analytical and risk calculation approach. Im amazed at how gullible the masses are and how they devour the hourly propaganda from an idiot mainstream media.

So I guess you were not in the pictures I saw of people in a bar in Wisconsin basically talking directly into each other's mouths without a mask. Those people laugh at science, by God. And they are proud of it.

Those are the idiots I am amazed by.

So what. If they want to sit next to each other and talk, that's their decision. When I'm out, I still shake people's hands, dont wear a mask, and I don't look at people as threats. I don't live in fear.

I don't live in fear either. That's why I don't shake people's hands and I do wear a mask. Because it's not about ME. It's about the kid in the grocery store, cleaning my cart before and I after I use it. I don't want him to get sick, and if I wear a mask, my chances of giving it to him are less, should I become infected. And if he gets infected, he won't give it to his grandparents or parents, or his little sister. So it's safer for HIM to go to work. He is subjecting himself to hundreds of people every day, helping to keep us safe.

It's so health care workers don't have to deal with more cases, more illness and more death. A lot of them are getting sick and dying too. Anything that saves lives is worth it, even if you think it's dumb.

I was at the grocery story the other week and a woman brushed past me twice. I was about to say something to her on the second occasion, when the man behind me in line said very sharply - "Watch YOUR distance! What is wrong with you? Show some respect for others and watch where you're going". It was her husband.

When someone says to me "I'm not changing my behaviour and I'm not wearing a mask", my first thought is "My aren't you the selfish prick". You're more important than anybody else, and if you're making others sick, so what! Grow the fuck up and act like a man instead of an entitled spoiled child.

#StayTheFuckAtHome

 

[progressive hunter]

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

Congrats, you have passed 4th grade math!

The point is, that this isn’t over. It’s actually a long way from being over. We aren’t shutting down the country because of the people that HAVE died. We are doing it to protect the people that WILL die. We are fighting to prevent 0.02% from becoming 0.1% or 1%.

No, we are not. The policy is wrong and will cost more lives than if no policy had been put in place.

That doesn’t seem likely. Did you see what happened in New York? Do you want that everywhere?

NY was an anomaly. Again odds of you dying if you’re under 59 are very slim.

NY was what happens when the virus takes hold before mitigation.

No. NYC happens when you infect nursing homes at a rapid rate. They are an outlier. Didn’t happen anywhere else in the country. And still 98% of those who died are those who either old and or very unhealthy. We can protect them and open the country. They were wrong in terms of how many hospital beds and ventilators they would need. Need to follow Sweden’s model.

Sweden’s Coronavirus Strategy Will Soon Be the World’s

Herd immunity is the only realistic option—the question is how to get there safely.

www.foreignaffairs.com

Nursing homes are everywhere dude. Unhealthy people are everywhere. Old people are everywhere.

The more you open up the country, the harder it is to protect them. Old, unhealthy, nursing home patients cannot exist in isolation. They are almost by definition reliant on others for activities of daily life.

And they can remain on lockdown. The rest of us should be able to go out and give the economy a boost. Set up testing at nursing homes to test those going in (workers). Vaccines are not 100% effective. When would you reopen?

Id reopen when we can identify, trace and isolate cases, like you do with any outbreak.

It’ll happen. It won’t be that long.

How long. Guesstimate.

Different place to place. Depends on how competent your state is.

I’m not a big fan of the “Jesus take the wheel” approach.

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

We are all going to get infected sooner or later

and those with underlying medical conditions will die from it

but everyone else will survive just as humans always have

I don't believe that's true. Not everyone gets the flu every year.

True

some of us may postpone the inevitable for two years

But sooner or later...

There's nothing inevitable about it.

I suppose total isolation in space might keep the chinese disease at bay

but here on earth only one person out of a million can live in total isolation

It doesn't require total isolation. It requires contact tracing and testing. Find out who has it, isolate them, find out who they possibly gave it to, test them, isolate those that turn out to be infect, etc. etc. etc. Find the disease, track it, end it.

Or spread it and allow for herd immunity.

Lets say there are 100 of us and 25 are old or at risk. We protect the 25 but we 75 go out. We all get it and then the virus has nowhere to go and dies out and then we release the remaining 25.

The very fact that 75 out of 100 has it means the 25 aren’t protected.

That’s how it always works. Healthy protect the vulnerable.

Here that’s what I thought we were doing by social distancing. The healthy are sacrificing to protect the vulnerable. Yet, what I’m hearing is that the healthy should not be “punished” and shouldn’t have to protect the vulnerable, who are only a very small percentage.

we protect them better by garnering herd immunity. This was supposed to flatten the curve not lockdown til there is a cure. By garnering herd immunity we protect the vulnerable. By doing what we are doing now we prolong the pain for everyone. ECONOMIC Pain is real. It’s lives vs lives not $$$ vs lives

There never was a curve to flatten. Even in the hardest hit New York where the deaths were deliberate the hospitals were never really overwhelmed.

Never overwhelmed? That's nonsense. They were totally overwhelmed. They were flying in doctors/nurses from all over the country. They had built hundreds of ICU beds into makeshift units in OR suites. It was nuts.

just because they brought in extra resources doesnt mean they were overwhelmed,,,only a few of the hospitals were overwhelmed while others barely saw an increase
if you look into it you will find that most of those resources werent used and later dismantled and went back from where they came,,,

Sorry dude, but I know people who were in the thick of it. It was a disaster.

I call bullshit!

Good for you.

They say it was a disaster but it was not. I want More statistical data such as how close to death were those who ultimately died from this. Such as those in nursing homes who had months or weeks to live anyway. Average age there is 85 and average life span is 80 in the US.

This statement suggests their lives aren’t as valuable.

They aren’t. They have lived 2x my lifespan. I’d gladly give up my life for my kids for example. Doesn’t mean I want to kill people but I want to make it as palatable as possible for everyone. Deaths are part of life. We have a car accident every 30 minutes in the US but we don’t stop driving.

We don’t treat them as less valuable.

Why can’t I drive 120 MPH down the interstate? I got a new car. I’d love to open it up.

most car deaths are at under 65 MPH,,,

Not my fault. I want to drive really fast. Why can’t I? what if I want to drive drunk? Or drive while texting?

go ahead nobodies stopping you,,,

The police don’t stop people who do so?
I don’t know where you come from, but in this country that’s not the case.

not if they dont see you,,,

Unfortunately I and my car are very much visible.

I cant see it from here,,,


face it your attempts to escalate this so you can push your fascist ideology is failing,,,,

The only thing that’s failing is your attempt to kill old people so you don’t have to pay their social security.
/s

you are so pathetic,,,

Face it. You want as many old people to get COVID as possible in order to reduce the federal deficit. You want them killed off by November so that they don’t vote for Biden.
/s

if that were true then the 84 yr old women living with us would be dead and shes not,,,

Pfft, keeping someone alive so you can take her SS check isn’t virtuous.
/s

I dont get a dime of her money,,and I do provide all her living expenses she does pay the offset of the mortgage of the house she lives in which is close to 1000 dollars under market value,,,