.02% chance of death.... thats what we are destroying our nation over

[colfax_m]

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

Congrats, you have passed 4th grade math!

The point is, that this isn’t over. It’s actually a long way from being over. We aren’t shutting down the country because of the people that HAVE died. We are doing it to protect the people that WILL die. We are fighting to prevent 0.02% from becoming 0.1% or 1%.

No, we are not. The policy is wrong and will cost more lives than if no policy had been put in place.

That doesn’t seem likely. Did you see what happened in New York? Do you want that everywhere?

NY was an anomaly. Again odds of you dying if you’re under 59 are very slim.

NY was what happens when the virus takes hold before mitigation.

No. NYC happens when you infect nursing homes at a rapid rate. They are an outlier. Didn’t happen anywhere else in the country. And still 98% of those who died are those who either old and or very unhealthy. We can protect them and open the country. They were wrong in terms of how many hospital beds and ventilators they would need. Need to follow Sweden’s model.

Sweden’s Coronavirus Strategy Will Soon Be the World’s

Herd immunity is the only realistic option—the question is how to get there safely.

www.foreignaffairs.com

Nursing homes are everywhere dude. Unhealthy people are everywhere. Old people are everywhere.

The more you open up the country, the harder it is to protect them. Old, unhealthy, nursing home patients cannot exist in isolation. They are almost by definition reliant on others for activities of daily life.

And they can remain on lockdown. The rest of us should be able to go out and give the economy a boost. Set up testing at nursing homes to test those going in (workers). Vaccines are not 100% effective. When would you reopen?

Id reopen when we can identify, trace and isolate cases, like you do with any outbreak.

It’ll happen. It won’t be that long.

How long. Guesstimate.

Different place to place. Depends on how competent your state is.

I’m not a big fan of the “Jesus take the wheel” approach.

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

We are all going to get infected sooner or later

and those with underlying medical conditions will die from it

but everyone else will survive just as humans always have

I don't believe that's true. Not everyone gets the flu every year.

True

some of us may postpone the inevitable for two years

But sooner or later...

There's nothing inevitable about it.

I suppose total isolation in space might keep the chinese disease at bay

but here on earth only one person out of a million can live in total isolation

It doesn't require total isolation. It requires contact tracing and testing. Find out who has it, isolate them, find out who they possibly gave it to, test them, isolate those that turn out to be infect, etc. etc. etc. Find the disease, track it, end it.

Or spread it and allow for herd immunity.

Lets say there are 100 of us and 25 are old or at risk. We protect the 25 but we 75 go out. We all get it and then the virus has nowhere to go and dies out and then we release the remaining 25.

The very fact that 75 out of 100 has it means the 25 aren’t protected.

That’s how it always works. Healthy protect the vulnerable.

Here that’s what I thought we were doing by social distancing. The healthy are sacrificing to protect the vulnerable. Yet, what I’m hearing is that the healthy should not be “punished” and shouldn’t have to protect the vulnerable, who are only a very small percentage.

we protect them better by garnering herd immunity. This was supposed to flatten the curve not lockdown til there is a cure. By garnering herd immunity we protect the vulnerable. By doing what we are doing now we prolong the pain for everyone. ECONOMIC Pain is real. It’s lives vs lives not $$$ vs lives

There never was a curve to flatten. Even in the hardest hit New York where the deaths were deliberate the hospitals were never really overwhelmed.

Never overwhelmed? That's nonsense. They were totally overwhelmed. They were flying in doctors/nurses from all over the country. They had built hundreds of ICU beds into makeshift units in OR suites. It was nuts.

just because they brought in extra resources doesnt mean they were overwhelmed,,,only a few of the hospitals were overwhelmed while others barely saw an increase
if you look into it you will find that most of those resources werent used and later dismantled and went back from where they came,,,

Sorry dude, but I know people who were in the thick of it. It was a disaster.

I call bullshit!

Good for you.

They say it was a disaster but it was not. I want More statistical data such as how close to death were those who ultimately died from this. Such as those in nursing homes who had months or weeks to live anyway. Average age there is 85 and average life span is 80 in the US.

This statement suggests their lives aren’t as valuable.

They aren’t. They have lived 2x my lifespan. I’d gladly give up my life for my kids for example. Doesn’t mean I want to kill people but I want to make it as palatable as possible for everyone. Deaths are part of life. We have a car accident every 30 minutes in the US but we don’t stop driving.

We don’t treat them as less valuable.

Why can’t I drive 120 MPH down the interstate? I got a new car. I’d love to open it up.

most car deaths are at under 65 MPH,,,

Not my fault. I want to drive really fast. Why can’t I? what if I want to drive drunk? Or drive while texting?

go ahead nobodies stopping you,,,

The police don’t stop people who do so?
I don’t know where you come from, but in this country that’s not the case.

not if they dont see you,,,

Unfortunately I and my car are very much visible.

I cant see it from here,,,


face it your attempts to escalate this so you can push your fascist ideology is failing,,,,

The only thing that’s failing is your attempt to kill old people so you don’t have to pay their social security.
/s

you are so pathetic,,,

Face it. You want as many old people to get COVID as possible in order to reduce the federal deficit. You want them killed off by November so that they don’t vote for Biden.
/s

if that were true then the 84 yr old women living with us would be dead and shes not,,,

Pfft, keeping someone alive so you can take her SS check isn’t virtuous.
/s

I dont get a dime of her money,,and I do provide all her living expenses she does pay the offset of the mortgage of the house she lives in which is close to 1000 dollars under market value,,,

BS. I see through your schemes.
/s

 

[Marion Morrison]

I don't live in fear either. That's why I don't shake people's hands and I do wear a mask. Because it's not about ME. It's about the kid in the grocery store, cleaning my cart before and I after I use it. I don't want him to get sick, and if I wear a mask, my chances of giving it to him are less, should I become infected. And if he gets infected, he won't give it to his grandparents or parents, or his little sister. So it's safer for HIM to go to work. He is subjecting himself to hundreds of people every day, helping to keep us safe.

It's so health care workers don't have to deal with more cases, more illness and more death. A lot of them are getting sick and dying too. Anything that saves lives is worth it, even if you think it's dumb.

I was at the grocery story the other week and a woman brushed past me twice. I was about to say something to her on the second occasion, when the man behind me in line said very sharply - "Watch YOUR distance! What is wrong with you? Show some respect for others and watch where you're going". It was her husband.

When someone says to me "I'm not changing my behaviour and I'm not wearing a mask", my first thought is "My aren't you the selfish prick". You're more important than anybody else, and if you're making others sick, so what! Grow the fuck up and act like a man instead of an entitled spoiled child.

#StayTheFuckAtHome

STFU Karen. You don't gotta shake anyone's hands because you are not a breadwinner.


Social Justice Deez Nutz.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

Congrats, you have passed 4th grade math!

The point is, that this isn’t over. It’s actually a long way from being over. We aren’t shutting down the country because of the people that HAVE died. We are doing it to protect the people that WILL die. We are fighting to prevent 0.02% from becoming 0.1% or 1%.

No, we are not. The policy is wrong and will cost more lives than if no policy had been put in place.

That doesn’t seem likely. Did you see what happened in New York? Do you want that everywhere?

NY was an anomaly. Again odds of you dying if you’re under 59 are very slim.

NY was what happens when the virus takes hold before mitigation.

No. NYC happens when you infect nursing homes at a rapid rate. They are an outlier. Didn’t happen anywhere else in the country. And still 98% of those who died are those who either old and or very unhealthy. We can protect them and open the country. They were wrong in terms of how many hospital beds and ventilators they would need. Need to follow Sweden’s model.

Sweden’s Coronavirus Strategy Will Soon Be the World’s

Herd immunity is the only realistic option—the question is how to get there safely.

www.foreignaffairs.com

Nursing homes are everywhere dude. Unhealthy people are everywhere. Old people are everywhere.

The more you open up the country, the harder it is to protect them. Old, unhealthy, nursing home patients cannot exist in isolation. They are almost by definition reliant on others for activities of daily life.

And they can remain on lockdown. The rest of us should be able to go out and give the economy a boost. Set up testing at nursing homes to test those going in (workers). Vaccines are not 100% effective. When would you reopen?

Id reopen when we can identify, trace and isolate cases, like you do with any outbreak.

It’ll happen. It won’t be that long.

How long. Guesstimate.

Different place to place. Depends on how competent your state is.

I’m not a big fan of the “Jesus take the wheel” approach.

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

We are all going to get infected sooner or later

and those with underlying medical conditions will die from it

but everyone else will survive just as humans always have

I don't believe that's true. Not everyone gets the flu every year.

True

some of us may postpone the inevitable for two years

But sooner or later...

There's nothing inevitable about it.

I suppose total isolation in space might keep the chinese disease at bay

but here on earth only one person out of a million can live in total isolation

It doesn't require total isolation. It requires contact tracing and testing. Find out who has it, isolate them, find out who they possibly gave it to, test them, isolate those that turn out to be infect, etc. etc. etc. Find the disease, track it, end it.

Or spread it and allow for herd immunity.

Lets say there are 100 of us and 25 are old or at risk. We protect the 25 but we 75 go out. We all get it and then the virus has nowhere to go and dies out and then we release the remaining 25.

The very fact that 75 out of 100 has it means the 25 aren’t protected.

That’s how it always works. Healthy protect the vulnerable.

Here that’s what I thought we were doing by social distancing. The healthy are sacrificing to protect the vulnerable. Yet, what I’m hearing is that the healthy should not be “punished” and shouldn’t have to protect the vulnerable, who are only a very small percentage.

we protect them better by garnering herd immunity. This was supposed to flatten the curve not lockdown til there is a cure. By garnering herd immunity we protect the vulnerable. By doing what we are doing now we prolong the pain for everyone. ECONOMIC Pain is real. It’s lives vs lives not $$$ vs lives

There never was a curve to flatten. Even in the hardest hit New York where the deaths were deliberate the hospitals were never really overwhelmed.

Never overwhelmed? That's nonsense. They were totally overwhelmed. They were flying in doctors/nurses from all over the country. They had built hundreds of ICU beds into makeshift units in OR suites. It was nuts.

just because they brought in extra resources doesnt mean they were overwhelmed,,,only a few of the hospitals were overwhelmed while others barely saw an increase
if you look into it you will find that most of those resources werent used and later dismantled and went back from where they came,,,

Sorry dude, but I know people who were in the thick of it. It was a disaster.

I call bullshit!

Good for you.

They say it was a disaster but it was not. I want More statistical data such as how close to death were those who ultimately died from this. Such as those in nursing homes who had months or weeks to live anyway. Average age there is 85 and average life span is 80 in the US.

This statement suggests their lives aren’t as valuable.

They aren’t. They have lived 2x my lifespan. I’d gladly give up my life for my kids for example. Doesn’t mean I want to kill people but I want to make it as palatable as possible for everyone. Deaths are part of life. We have a car accident every 30 minutes in the US but we don’t stop driving.

When someone is killed in a car accident, guilt is assessed, charges are laid, and the guilty party has to pay the injured party for their damages.

Trump is trying to make it so that if your employer doesn't take steps to protect you from the virus, you're not allowed to sue them for making you sick. And if you get sick, they cans till fire you, and you lose your health insurance.

What protections do the WORKERS have to keep them safe?

Workers don’t have to go to work. It’s their choice. It’s our country. Your opinion is unwanted. It’s not up to your employer but you. Everyone knows if you wash your hands and don’t touch your face you won’t get it and if you do there is a 99.9% chance you ll be fine. You’re a drama queen.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

Congrats, you have passed 4th grade math!

The point is, that this isn’t over. It’s actually a long way from being over. We aren’t shutting down the country because of the people that HAVE died. We are doing it to protect the people that WILL die. We are fighting to prevent 0.02% from becoming 0.1% or 1%.

No, we are not. The policy is wrong and will cost more lives than if no policy had been put in place.

That doesn’t seem likely. Did you see what happened in New York? Do you want that everywhere?

NY was an anomaly. Again odds of you dying if you’re under 59 are very slim.

NY was what happens when the virus takes hold before mitigation.

No. NYC happens when you infect nursing homes at a rapid rate. They are an outlier. Didn’t happen anywhere else in the country. And still 98% of those who died are those who either old and or very unhealthy. We can protect them and open the country. They were wrong in terms of how many hospital beds and ventilators they would need. Need to follow Sweden’s model.

Sweden’s Coronavirus Strategy Will Soon Be the World’s

Herd immunity is the only realistic option—the question is how to get there safely.

www.foreignaffairs.com

Nursing homes are everywhere dude. Unhealthy people are everywhere. Old people are everywhere.

The more you open up the country, the harder it is to protect them. Old, unhealthy, nursing home patients cannot exist in isolation. They are almost by definition reliant on others for activities of daily life.

And they can remain on lockdown. The rest of us should be able to go out and give the economy a boost. Set up testing at nursing homes to test those going in (workers). Vaccines are not 100% effective. When would you reopen?

Id reopen when we can identify, trace and isolate cases, like you do with any outbreak.

It’ll happen. It won’t be that long.

How long. Guesstimate.

Different place to place. Depends on how competent your state is.

I’m not a big fan of the “Jesus take the wheel” approach.

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

We are all going to get infected sooner or later

and those with underlying medical conditions will die from it

but everyone else will survive just as humans always have

I don't believe that's true. Not everyone gets the flu every year.

True

some of us may postpone the inevitable for two years

But sooner or later...

There's nothing inevitable about it.

I suppose total isolation in space might keep the chinese disease at bay

but here on earth only one person out of a million can live in total isolation

It doesn't require total isolation. It requires contact tracing and testing. Find out who has it, isolate them, find out who they possibly gave it to, test them, isolate those that turn out to be infect, etc. etc. etc. Find the disease, track it, end it.

Or spread it and allow for herd immunity.

Lets say there are 100 of us and 25 are old or at risk. We protect the 25 but we 75 go out. We all get it and then the virus has nowhere to go and dies out and then we release the remaining 25.

The very fact that 75 out of 100 has it means the 25 aren’t protected.

That’s how it always works. Healthy protect the vulnerable.

Here that’s what I thought we were doing by social distancing. The healthy are sacrificing to protect the vulnerable. Yet, what I’m hearing is that the healthy should not be “punished” and shouldn’t have to protect the vulnerable, who are only a very small percentage.

we protect them better by garnering herd immunity. This was supposed to flatten the curve not lockdown til there is a cure. By garnering herd immunity we protect the vulnerable. By doing what we are doing now we prolong the pain for everyone. ECONOMIC Pain is real. It’s lives vs lives not $$$ vs lives

There never was a curve to flatten. Even in the hardest hit New York where the deaths were deliberate the hospitals were never really overwhelmed.

Never overwhelmed? That's nonsense. They were totally overwhelmed. They were flying in doctors/nurses from all over the country. They had built hundreds of ICU beds into makeshift units in OR suites. It was nuts.

just because they brought in extra resources doesnt mean they were overwhelmed,,,only a few of the hospitals were overwhelmed while others barely saw an increase
if you look into it you will find that most of those resources werent used and later dismantled and went back from where they came,,,

Sorry dude, but I know people who were in the thick of it. It was a disaster.

I call bullshit!

Good for you.

They say it was a disaster but it was not. I want More statistical data such as how close to death were those who ultimately died from this. Such as those in nursing homes who had months or weeks to live anyway. Average age there is 85 and average life span is 80 in the US.

This statement suggests their lives aren’t as valuable.

They aren’t. They have lived 2x my lifespan. I’d gladly give up my life for my kids for example. Doesn’t mean I want to kill people but I want to make it as palatable as possible for everyone. Deaths are part of life. We have a car accident every 30 minutes in the US but we don’t stop driving.

We don’t treat them as less valuable.

Why can’t I drive 120 MPH down the interstate? I got a new car. I’d love to open it up.

You actually can. Many do. You should not but your car is not maxed out at 60MPH.

Back to playing games? You know understand the point of the question.

Nope. When I buy a car I know the laws. You cannot just change the laws after I buy it via an executive order. Happened in Wisconsin and was overturned. I don't believe this is a major crisis so go through the proper procedures.

You can always change the laws. Laws aren’t written in stone. The speed limit can be 60 one day, 65 the next. Laws change. Situations change.

You said we don’t outlaw driving because it is dangerous. Well, we put limits on it specifically to make it less dangerous.

Laws don't change via a whim from the Governor. If you want to fine me for going to a bar then so be it but don't ban me from doing it. What if they say driving over 30 is dangerous? You think people would just accept that? They went too far with this.

Governors have emergency powers granted them by the legislature so that they can respond to crises such as this.

Except I do not believe a virus that kills 1 out of every 10k in population is an "emergency" and other states are open so many disagree with him. Even NY is opened today. As more data comes out I believe his "emergency" is a false statement. So if an Islamist kills 100 people in Boston, does Baker have the power to arrest all Islamists? Where does his power end? Honest question. In March we were unsure how deadly this is. Now we see it is statistically minor. Why isn't MA open when NY is?

Your disagreement is noted. I’m sure you’ll consider that the next time you vote for dictator.

Didn’t they shut down Boston when they were hunting down the marathon bomber?

No. Watertown and only because the shooters were supposedly armed. Clear and present danger and it was done by the police for a few hours not for several months.

 

[Dragonlady]

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

Congrats, you have passed 4th grade math!

The point is, that this isn’t over. It’s actually a long way from being over. We aren’t shutting down the country because of the people that HAVE died. We are doing it to protect the people that WILL die. We are fighting to prevent 0.02% from becoming 0.1% or 1%.

No, we are not. The policy is wrong and will cost more lives than if no policy had been put in place.

That doesn’t seem likely. Did you see what happened in New York? Do you want that everywhere?

NY was an anomaly. Again odds of you dying if you’re under 59 are very slim.

NY was what happens when the virus takes hold before mitigation.

No. NYC happens when you infect nursing homes at a rapid rate. They are an outlier. Didn’t happen anywhere else in the country. And still 98% of those who died are those who either old and or very unhealthy. We can protect them and open the country. They were wrong in terms of how many hospital beds and ventilators they would need. Need to follow Sweden’s model.

Sweden’s Coronavirus Strategy Will Soon Be the World’s

Herd immunity is the only realistic option—the question is how to get there safely.

www.foreignaffairs.com

Nursing homes are everywhere dude. Unhealthy people are everywhere. Old people are everywhere.

The more you open up the country, the harder it is to protect them. Old, unhealthy, nursing home patients cannot exist in isolation. They are almost by definition reliant on others for activities of daily life.

And they can remain on lockdown. The rest of us should be able to go out and give the economy a boost. Set up testing at nursing homes to test those going in (workers). Vaccines are not 100% effective. When would you reopen?

Id reopen when we can identify, trace and isolate cases, like you do with any outbreak.

It’ll happen. It won’t be that long.

How long. Guesstimate.

Different place to place. Depends on how competent your state is.

I’m not a big fan of the “Jesus take the wheel” approach.

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

We are all going to get infected sooner or later

and those with underlying medical conditions will die from it

but everyone else will survive just as humans always have

I don't believe that's true. Not everyone gets the flu every year.

True

some of us may postpone the inevitable for two years

But sooner or later...

There's nothing inevitable about it.

I suppose total isolation in space might keep the chinese disease at bay

but here on earth only one person out of a million can live in total isolation

It doesn't require total isolation. It requires contact tracing and testing. Find out who has it, isolate them, find out who they possibly gave it to, test them, isolate those that turn out to be infect, etc. etc. etc. Find the disease, track it, end it.

Or spread it and allow for herd immunity.

Lets say there are 100 of us and 25 are old or at risk. We protect the 25 but we 75 go out. We all get it and then the virus has nowhere to go and dies out and then we release the remaining 25.

The very fact that 75 out of 100 has it means the 25 aren’t protected.

That’s how it always works. Healthy protect the vulnerable.

Here that’s what I thought we were doing by social distancing. The healthy are sacrificing to protect the vulnerable. Yet, what I’m hearing is that the healthy should not be “punished” and shouldn’t have to protect the vulnerable, who are only a very small percentage.

we protect them better by garnering herd immunity. This was supposed to flatten the curve not lockdown til there is a cure. By garnering herd immunity we protect the vulnerable. By doing what we are doing now we prolong the pain for everyone. ECONOMIC Pain is real. It’s lives vs lives not $$$ vs lives

There never was a curve to flatten. Even in the hardest hit New York where the deaths were deliberate the hospitals were never really overwhelmed.

Never overwhelmed? That's nonsense. They were totally overwhelmed. They were flying in doctors/nurses from all over the country. They had built hundreds of ICU beds into makeshift units in OR suites. It was nuts.

just because they brought in extra resources doesnt mean they were overwhelmed,,,only a few of the hospitals were overwhelmed while others barely saw an increase
if you look into it you will find that most of those resources werent used and later dismantled and went back from where they came,,,

Sorry dude, but I know people who were in the thick of it. It was a disaster.

I call bullshit!

Good for you.

They say it was a disaster but it was not. I want More statistical data such as how close to death were those who ultimately died from this. Such as those in nursing homes who had months or weeks to live anyway. Average age there is 85 and average life span is 80 in the US.

This statement suggests their lives aren’t as valuable.

They aren’t. They have lived 2x my lifespan. I’d gladly give up my life for my kids for example. Doesn’t mean I want to kill people but I want to make it as palatable as possible for everyone. Deaths are part of life. We have a car accident every 30 minutes in the US but we don’t stop driving.

When someone is killed in a car accident, guilt is assessed, charges are laid, and the guilty party has to pay the injured party for their damages.

Trump is trying to make it so that if your employer doesn't take steps to protect you from the virus, you're not allowed to sue them for making you sick. And if you get sick, they cans till fire you, and you lose your health insurance.

What protections do the WORKERS have to keep them safe?

that would mean something if the are forced to work,,,and in this country nobody is forced to work,,,

and how do you prove they got infected at work???
you cant,,,

Yeah, you can. Easily. Because you can do a DNA analysis of the virus and all you need is for one other coworker to have the virus with the same DNA, and Bob's your uncle.

Many states are telling workers that if their employer calls them back to work, their unemployment benefits will be cut off if they refuse. Donald Trump signed an EO ordering meat processing plants to stay open. Trump is prepared to sacrifice low wage workers to the economy.

The reason why the rate of death is so high in America is because so many people lack health insurance and can't afford to treat "underlying conditions", so they fester. The only country in the first world with a declining life expectancy. Monsanto frankenfood, over-processed, low nutrient, high fat junk food. Lack of fresh food in poor neighbourhoods. The cheapest food in the world, and like all cheap goods, you get what you pay for.

"Essential workers" are rapidly turning into "expendable workers". After all they're old/sick/fat/poor and they're likely not even white.

 

[Cecilie1200]

That is the weapon of choice for the left. That is the manner in which we will cause the total collapse of our own nation.

The fact that most people never even know they've had the virus and they recover from their symptomless death sentence of .02% means what in the big picture?

Do you refuse to get behind the wheel of a car because of the risk of death?
Do you refuse to live ANYWHERE where natural disasters regularly threaten lives?
Do you refuse to fly on a plane because of the risk of crashing?
Do you refuse to go swimming because of the risk of drowning?

I'm guessing you answered no to all those yet for some inexplicable reason you are scared to death of a viruse with a super low mortality rate...

Why?

Using a bit of common sense leads me to the conclusion that many are doing it to hurt Trump.

Yeah more will get sick. That is the nature of life and the risks it has ALWAYS posed. The mortality rate is still absurdly low for the archaic reactions of the left.

Thread seven thousand by a blob supporter based on the flawed premise that a politician will self destruct to hurt the blob. I guess when their your lord and master is a total failure like the blob has been...they have to invent excuses.

Post seven million by Cornball thinking that saying "the blob" over and over will somehow qualify as cutting political commentary. I guess when your attempts at thinking are a total failure like Cornball's have been . . . you have to spew childish invective.

 

[progressive hunter]

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

Congrats, you have passed 4th grade math!

The point is, that this isn’t over. It’s actually a long way from being over. We aren’t shutting down the country because of the people that HAVE died. We are doing it to protect the people that WILL die. We are fighting to prevent 0.02% from becoming 0.1% or 1%.

No, we are not. The policy is wrong and will cost more lives than if no policy had been put in place.

That doesn’t seem likely. Did you see what happened in New York? Do you want that everywhere?

NY was an anomaly. Again odds of you dying if you’re under 59 are very slim.

NY was what happens when the virus takes hold before mitigation.

No. NYC happens when you infect nursing homes at a rapid rate. They are an outlier. Didn’t happen anywhere else in the country. And still 98% of those who died are those who either old and or very unhealthy. We can protect them and open the country. They were wrong in terms of how many hospital beds and ventilators they would need. Need to follow Sweden’s model.

Sweden’s Coronavirus Strategy Will Soon Be the World’s

Herd immunity is the only realistic option—the question is how to get there safely.

www.foreignaffairs.com

Nursing homes are everywhere dude. Unhealthy people are everywhere. Old people are everywhere.

The more you open up the country, the harder it is to protect them. Old, unhealthy, nursing home patients cannot exist in isolation. They are almost by definition reliant on others for activities of daily life.

And they can remain on lockdown. The rest of us should be able to go out and give the economy a boost. Set up testing at nursing homes to test those going in (workers). Vaccines are not 100% effective. When would you reopen?

Id reopen when we can identify, trace and isolate cases, like you do with any outbreak.

It’ll happen. It won’t be that long.

How long. Guesstimate.

Different place to place. Depends on how competent your state is.

I’m not a big fan of the “Jesus take the wheel” approach.

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

We are all going to get infected sooner or later

and those with underlying medical conditions will die from it

but everyone else will survive just as humans always have

I don't believe that's true. Not everyone gets the flu every year.

True

some of us may postpone the inevitable for two years

But sooner or later...

There's nothing inevitable about it.

I suppose total isolation in space might keep the chinese disease at bay

but here on earth only one person out of a million can live in total isolation

It doesn't require total isolation. It requires contact tracing and testing. Find out who has it, isolate them, find out who they possibly gave it to, test them, isolate those that turn out to be infect, etc. etc. etc. Find the disease, track it, end it.

Or spread it and allow for herd immunity.

Lets say there are 100 of us and 25 are old or at risk. We protect the 25 but we 75 go out. We all get it and then the virus has nowhere to go and dies out and then we release the remaining 25.

The very fact that 75 out of 100 has it means the 25 aren’t protected.

That’s how it always works. Healthy protect the vulnerable.

Here that’s what I thought we were doing by social distancing. The healthy are sacrificing to protect the vulnerable. Yet, what I’m hearing is that the healthy should not be “punished” and shouldn’t have to protect the vulnerable, who are only a very small percentage.

we protect them better by garnering herd immunity. This was supposed to flatten the curve not lockdown til there is a cure. By garnering herd immunity we protect the vulnerable. By doing what we are doing now we prolong the pain for everyone. ECONOMIC Pain is real. It’s lives vs lives not $$$ vs lives

There never was a curve to flatten. Even in the hardest hit New York where the deaths were deliberate the hospitals were never really overwhelmed.

Never overwhelmed? That's nonsense. They were totally overwhelmed. They were flying in doctors/nurses from all over the country. They had built hundreds of ICU beds into makeshift units in OR suites. It was nuts.

just because they brought in extra resources doesnt mean they were overwhelmed,,,only a few of the hospitals were overwhelmed while others barely saw an increase
if you look into it you will find that most of those resources werent used and later dismantled and went back from where they came,,,

Sorry dude, but I know people who were in the thick of it. It was a disaster.

I call bullshit!

Good for you.

They say it was a disaster but it was not. I want More statistical data such as how close to death were those who ultimately died from this. Such as those in nursing homes who had months or weeks to live anyway. Average age there is 85 and average life span is 80 in the US.

This statement suggests their lives aren’t as valuable.

They aren’t. They have lived 2x my lifespan. I’d gladly give up my life for my kids for example. Doesn’t mean I want to kill people but I want to make it as palatable as possible for everyone. Deaths are part of life. We have a car accident every 30 minutes in the US but we don’t stop driving.

When someone is killed in a car accident, guilt is assessed, charges are laid, and the guilty party has to pay the injured party for their damages.

Trump is trying to make it so that if your employer doesn't take steps to protect you from the virus, you're not allowed to sue them for making you sick. And if you get sick, they cans till fire you, and you lose your health insurance.

What protections do the WORKERS have to keep them safe?

that would mean something if the are forced to work,,,and in this country nobody is forced to work,,,

and how do you prove they got infected at work???
you cant,,,

Yeah, you can. Easily. Because you can do a DNA analysis of the virus and all you need is for one other coworker to have the virus with the same DNA, and Bob's your uncle.

Many states are telling workers that if their employer calls them back to work, their unemployment benefits will be cut off if they refuse. Donald Trump signed an EO ordering meat processing plants to stay open. Trump is prepared to sacrifice low wage workers to the economy.

The reason why the rate of death is so high in America is because so many people lack health insurance and can't afford to treat "underlying conditions", so they fester. The only country in the first world with a declining life expectancy. Monsanto frankenfood, over-processed, low nutrient, high fat junk food. Lack of fresh food in poor neighbourhoods. The cheapest food in the world, and like all cheap goods, you get what you pay for.

"Essential workers" are rapidly turning into "expendable workers". After all they're old/sick/fat/poor and they're likely not even white.

my god you really are a fucking idiot,,,

 

[progressive hunter]

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

Congrats, you have passed 4th grade math!

The point is, that this isn’t over. It’s actually a long way from being over. We aren’t shutting down the country because of the people that HAVE died. We are doing it to protect the people that WILL die. We are fighting to prevent 0.02% from becoming 0.1% or 1%.

No, we are not. The policy is wrong and will cost more lives than if no policy had been put in place.

That doesn’t seem likely. Did you see what happened in New York? Do you want that everywhere?

NY was an anomaly. Again odds of you dying if you’re under 59 are very slim.

NY was what happens when the virus takes hold before mitigation.

No. NYC happens when you infect nursing homes at a rapid rate. They are an outlier. Didn’t happen anywhere else in the country. And still 98% of those who died are those who either old and or very unhealthy. We can protect them and open the country. They were wrong in terms of how many hospital beds and ventilators they would need. Need to follow Sweden’s model.

Sweden’s Coronavirus Strategy Will Soon Be the World’s

Herd immunity is the only realistic option—the question is how to get there safely.

www.foreignaffairs.com

Nursing homes are everywhere dude. Unhealthy people are everywhere. Old people are everywhere.

The more you open up the country, the harder it is to protect them. Old, unhealthy, nursing home patients cannot exist in isolation. They are almost by definition reliant on others for activities of daily life.

And they can remain on lockdown. The rest of us should be able to go out and give the economy a boost. Set up testing at nursing homes to test those going in (workers). Vaccines are not 100% effective. When would you reopen?

Id reopen when we can identify, trace and isolate cases, like you do with any outbreak.

It’ll happen. It won’t be that long.

How long. Guesstimate.

Different place to place. Depends on how competent your state is.

I’m not a big fan of the “Jesus take the wheel” approach.

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

We are all going to get infected sooner or later

and those with underlying medical conditions will die from it

but everyone else will survive just as humans always have

I don't believe that's true. Not everyone gets the flu every year.

True

some of us may postpone the inevitable for two years

But sooner or later...

There's nothing inevitable about it.

I suppose total isolation in space might keep the chinese disease at bay

but here on earth only one person out of a million can live in total isolation

It doesn't require total isolation. It requires contact tracing and testing. Find out who has it, isolate them, find out who they possibly gave it to, test them, isolate those that turn out to be infect, etc. etc. etc. Find the disease, track it, end it.

Or spread it and allow for herd immunity.

Lets say there are 100 of us and 25 are old or at risk. We protect the 25 but we 75 go out. We all get it and then the virus has nowhere to go and dies out and then we release the remaining 25.

The very fact that 75 out of 100 has it means the 25 aren’t protected.

That’s how it always works. Healthy protect the vulnerable.

Here that’s what I thought we were doing by social distancing. The healthy are sacrificing to protect the vulnerable. Yet, what I’m hearing is that the healthy should not be “punished” and shouldn’t have to protect the vulnerable, who are only a very small percentage.

we protect them better by garnering herd immunity. This was supposed to flatten the curve not lockdown til there is a cure. By garnering herd immunity we protect the vulnerable. By doing what we are doing now we prolong the pain for everyone. ECONOMIC Pain is real. It’s lives vs lives not $$$ vs lives

There never was a curve to flatten. Even in the hardest hit New York where the deaths were deliberate the hospitals were never really overwhelmed.

Never overwhelmed? That's nonsense. They were totally overwhelmed. They were flying in doctors/nurses from all over the country. They had built hundreds of ICU beds into makeshift units in OR suites. It was nuts.

just because they brought in extra resources doesnt mean they were overwhelmed,,,only a few of the hospitals were overwhelmed while others barely saw an increase
if you look into it you will find that most of those resources werent used and later dismantled and went back from where they came,,,

Sorry dude, but I know people who were in the thick of it. It was a disaster.

I call bullshit!

Good for you.

They say it was a disaster but it was not. I want More statistical data such as how close to death were those who ultimately died from this. Such as those in nursing homes who had months or weeks to live anyway. Average age there is 85 and average life span is 80 in the US.

This statement suggests their lives aren’t as valuable.

They aren’t. They have lived 2x my lifespan. I’d gladly give up my life for my kids for example. Doesn’t mean I want to kill people but I want to make it as palatable as possible for everyone. Deaths are part of life. We have a car accident every 30 minutes in the US but we don’t stop driving.

We don’t treat them as less valuable.

Why can’t I drive 120 MPH down the interstate? I got a new car. I’d love to open it up.

most car deaths are at under 65 MPH,,,

Not my fault. I want to drive really fast. Why can’t I? what if I want to drive drunk? Or drive while texting?

go ahead nobodies stopping you,,,

The police don’t stop people who do so?
I don’t know where you come from, but in this country that’s not the case.

not if they dont see you,,,

Unfortunately I and my car are very much visible.

I cant see it from here,,,


face it your attempts to escalate this so you can push your fascist ideology is failing,,,,

The only thing that’s failing is your attempt to kill old people so you don’t have to pay their social security.
/s

you are so pathetic,,,

Face it. You want as many old people to get COVID as possible in order to reduce the federal deficit. You want them killed off by November so that they don’t vote for Biden.
/s

if that were true then the 84 yr old women living with us would be dead and shes not,,,

Pfft, keeping someone alive so you can take her SS check isn’t virtuous.
/s

I dont get a dime of her money,,and I do provide all her living expenses she does pay the offset of the mortgage of the house she lives in which is close to 1000 dollars under market value,,,

BS. I see through your schemes.
/s

sure you do,,,

 

[Cecilie1200]

It makes one think there might be ulterior and maybe even nefarious motives.

The old adage, “Follow the money,” might apply.

Have you seen the NFL's re opening schedule plan?
It is eye opening.

In a nutshell the NFL is saying that if ONE STATE refuses to let a single team open they won't allow any team to open.
You think states are going to stop that MASSIVE pile of money to slip away? Then ask yourself if playing Football is "essential"

The NFL does approximately 8 billion in revenue. There are corporations that piss 8 billion. I think we need sports to boost morale more than anything. Not downplaying the financial significance of the NFL potentially shutting down, just saying other businesses are more important to the U.S. economy.

The decisions to open or close a team will be made at the city level and that amount of money is MASSIVE to a city who's revenue stream has all but dried up because of a lockdown that is self imposed.

Why are you complaining about the destruction of the American economy? Trump promised you that he would undo everything Obama did, and Obama's greatest achievement was the longest sustained recovery in the history of the nation.

Obamacare hasn't been completely destroyed yet, but the economy has been. Promise kept!!!

I can see why you wouldn't understand why people care about destroying an economy based on freedom and personal responsibility, since your government-sucking ass has never had any interest in those things. Trump gave us a great economy prior to coronavirus precisely by undoing all the bullshit Obama did, and hearing mindless government-worshipping drones like you prattling on and on about how we should "really" think it was all wonderful is unlikely to convince us to believe you over our own eyes and reasoning abilities.

I have yet to understand what it was that convinced you that anyone was viewing you as a source of knowledge and wisdom, or even vaguely interesting input.

 

[Dragonlady]

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

Congrats, you have passed 4th grade math!

The point is, that this isn’t over. It’s actually a long way from being over. We aren’t shutting down the country because of the people that HAVE died. We are doing it to protect the people that WILL die. We are fighting to prevent 0.02% from becoming 0.1% or 1%.

No, we are not. The policy is wrong and will cost more lives than if no policy had been put in place.

That doesn’t seem likely. Did you see what happened in New York? Do you want that everywhere?

NY was an anomaly. Again odds of you dying if you’re under 59 are very slim.

NY was what happens when the virus takes hold before mitigation.

No. NYC happens when you infect nursing homes at a rapid rate. They are an outlier. Didn’t happen anywhere else in the country. And still 98% of those who died are those who either old and or very unhealthy. We can protect them and open the country. They were wrong in terms of how many hospital beds and ventilators they would need. Need to follow Sweden’s model.

Sweden’s Coronavirus Strategy Will Soon Be the World’s

Herd immunity is the only realistic option—the question is how to get there safely.

www.foreignaffairs.com

Nursing homes are everywhere dude. Unhealthy people are everywhere. Old people are everywhere.

The more you open up the country, the harder it is to protect them. Old, unhealthy, nursing home patients cannot exist in isolation. They are almost by definition reliant on others for activities of daily life.

And they can remain on lockdown. The rest of us should be able to go out and give the economy a boost. Set up testing at nursing homes to test those going in (workers). Vaccines are not 100% effective. When would you reopen?

Id reopen when we can identify, trace and isolate cases, like you do with any outbreak.

It’ll happen. It won’t be that long.

How long. Guesstimate.

Different place to place. Depends on how competent your state is.

I’m not a big fan of the “Jesus take the wheel” approach.

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

We are all going to get infected sooner or later

and those with underlying medical conditions will die from it

but everyone else will survive just as humans always have

I don't believe that's true. Not everyone gets the flu every year.

True

some of us may postpone the inevitable for two years

But sooner or later...

There's nothing inevitable about it.

I suppose total isolation in space might keep the chinese disease at bay

but here on earth only one person out of a million can live in total isolation

It doesn't require total isolation. It requires contact tracing and testing. Find out who has it, isolate them, find out who they possibly gave it to, test them, isolate those that turn out to be infect, etc. etc. etc. Find the disease, track it, end it.

Or spread it and allow for herd immunity.

Lets say there are 100 of us and 25 are old or at risk. We protect the 25 but we 75 go out. We all get it and then the virus has nowhere to go and dies out and then we release the remaining 25.

The very fact that 75 out of 100 has it means the 25 aren’t protected.

That’s how it always works. Healthy protect the vulnerable.

Here that’s what I thought we were doing by social distancing. The healthy are sacrificing to protect the vulnerable. Yet, what I’m hearing is that the healthy should not be “punished” and shouldn’t have to protect the vulnerable, who are only a very small percentage.

we protect them better by garnering herd immunity. This was supposed to flatten the curve not lockdown til there is a cure. By garnering herd immunity we protect the vulnerable. By doing what we are doing now we prolong the pain for everyone. ECONOMIC Pain is real. It’s lives vs lives not $$$ vs lives

There never was a curve to flatten. Even in the hardest hit New York where the deaths were deliberate the hospitals were never really overwhelmed.

Never overwhelmed? That's nonsense. They were totally overwhelmed. They were flying in doctors/nurses from all over the country. They had built hundreds of ICU beds into makeshift units in OR suites. It was nuts.

just because they brought in extra resources doesnt mean they were overwhelmed,,,only a few of the hospitals were overwhelmed while others barely saw an increase
if you look into it you will find that most of those resources werent used and later dismantled and went back from where they came,,,

Sorry dude, but I know people who were in the thick of it. It was a disaster.

I call bullshit!

Good for you.

They say it was a disaster but it was not. I want More statistical data such as how close to death were those who ultimately died from this. Such as those in nursing homes who had months or weeks to live anyway. Average age there is 85 and average life span is 80 in the US.

This statement suggests their lives aren’t as valuable.

They aren’t. They have lived 2x my lifespan. I’d gladly give up my life for my kids for example. Doesn’t mean I want to kill people but I want to make it as palatable as possible for everyone. Deaths are part of life. We have a car accident every 30 minutes in the US but we don’t stop driving.

When someone is killed in a car accident, guilt is assessed, charges are laid, and the guilty party has to pay the injured party for their damages.

Trump is trying to make it so that if your employer doesn't take steps to protect you from the virus, you're not allowed to sue them for making you sick. And if you get sick, they cans till fire you, and you lose your health insurance.

What protections do the WORKERS have to keep them safe?

Workers don’t have to go to work. It’s their choice. It’s our country. Your opinion is unwanted. It’s not up to your employer but you. Everyone knows if you wash your hands and don’t touch your face you won’t get it and if you do there is a 99.9% chance you ll be fine. You’re a drama queen.

Well Dr. Azoz aren't you the bright one! I guess the part where you're a medical doctor too. The doctors and the scientists say you're full of shit, but then we really didn't need them to tell us what we already knew. And maybe if you do get it, nothing bad will happen to you. And I guess you play Russian Roulette all the time with your life.

I choose sensible precautions. So do my family and friends. That's why none of us have gotten sick. We plan to keep it that way, and besides, in Canada. It's why the death rate in Canada

Who says it's "your" country, troll? Where's you evidence that you're aren't just the lying Russian bot we all have you pegged for?

 

[Cecilie1200]

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

Congrats, you have passed 4th grade math!

The point is, that this isn’t over. It’s actually a long way from being over. We aren’t shutting down the country because of the people that HAVE died. We are doing it to protect the people that WILL die. We are fighting to prevent 0.02% from becoming 0.1% or 1%.

No, we are not. The policy is wrong and will cost more lives than if no policy had been put in place.

That doesn’t seem likely. Did you see what happened in New York? Do you want that everywhere?

NY was an anomaly. Again odds of you dying if you’re under 59 are very slim.

NY was what happens when the virus takes hold before mitigation.

No. NYC happens when you infect nursing homes at a rapid rate. They are an outlier. Didn’t happen anywhere else in the country. And still 98% of those who died are those who either old and or very unhealthy. We can protect them and open the country. They were wrong in terms of how many hospital beds and ventilators they would need. Need to follow Sweden’s model.

Sweden’s Coronavirus Strategy Will Soon Be the World’s

Herd immunity is the only realistic option—the question is how to get there safely.

www.foreignaffairs.com

Nursing homes are everywhere dude. Unhealthy people are everywhere. Old people are everywhere.

The more you open up the country, the harder it is to protect them. Old, unhealthy, nursing home patients cannot exist in isolation. They are almost by definition reliant on others for activities of daily life.

And they can remain on lockdown. The rest of us should be able to go out and give the economy a boost. Set up testing at nursing homes to test those going in (workers). Vaccines are not 100% effective. When would you reopen?

Id reopen when we can identify, trace and isolate cases, like you do with any outbreak.

It’ll happen. It won’t be that long.

How long. Guesstimate.

Different place to place. Depends on how competent your state is.

I’m not a big fan of the “Jesus take the wheel” approach.

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

We are all going to get infected sooner or later

and those with underlying medical conditions will die from it

but everyone else will survive just as humans always have

I don't believe that's true. Not everyone gets the flu every year.

True

some of us may postpone the inevitable for two years

But sooner or later...

There's nothing inevitable about it.

I suppose total isolation in space might keep the chinese disease at bay

but here on earth only one person out of a million can live in total isolation

It doesn't require total isolation. It requires contact tracing and testing. Find out who has it, isolate them, find out who they possibly gave it to, test them, isolate those that turn out to be infect, etc. etc. etc. Find the disease, track it, end it.

Or spread it and allow for herd immunity.

Lets say there are 100 of us and 25 are old or at risk. We protect the 25 but we 75 go out. We all get it and then the virus has nowhere to go and dies out and then we release the remaining 25.

The very fact that 75 out of 100 has it means the 25 aren’t protected.

That’s how it always works. Healthy protect the vulnerable.

Here that’s what I thought we were doing by social distancing. The healthy are sacrificing to protect the vulnerable. Yet, what I’m hearing is that the healthy should not be “punished” and shouldn’t have to protect the vulnerable, who are only a very small percentage.

we protect them better by garnering herd immunity. This was supposed to flatten the curve not lockdown til there is a cure. By garnering herd immunity we protect the vulnerable. By doing what we are doing now we prolong the pain for everyone. ECONOMIC Pain is real. It’s lives vs lives not $$$ vs lives

There never was a curve to flatten. Even in the hardest hit New York where the deaths were deliberate the hospitals were never really overwhelmed.

Never overwhelmed? That's nonsense. They were totally overwhelmed. They were flying in doctors/nurses from all over the country. They had built hundreds of ICU beds into makeshift units in OR suites. It was nuts.

just because they brought in extra resources doesnt mean they were overwhelmed,,,only a few of the hospitals were overwhelmed while others barely saw an increase
if you look into it you will find that most of those resources werent used and later dismantled and went back from where they came,,,

Sorry dude, but I know people who were in the thick of it. It was a disaster.

I call bullshit!

Good for you.

They say it was a disaster but it was not. I want More statistical data such as how close to death were those who ultimately died from this. Such as those in nursing homes who had months or weeks to live anyway. Average age there is 85 and average life span is 80 in the US.

This statement suggests their lives aren’t as valuable.

They aren’t. They have lived 2x my lifespan. I’d gladly give up my life for my kids for example. Doesn’t mean I want to kill people but I want to make it as palatable as possible for everyone. Deaths are part of life. We have a car accident every 30 minutes in the US but we don’t stop driving.

When someone is killed in a car accident, guilt is assessed, charges are laid, and the guilty party has to pay the injured party for their damages.

Trump is trying to make it so that if your employer doesn't take steps to protect you from the virus, you're not allowed to sue them for making you sick. And if you get sick, they cans till fire you, and you lose your health insurance.

What protections do the WORKERS have to keep them safe?

that would mean something if the are forced to work,,,and in this country nobody is forced to work,,,

and how do you prove they got infected at work???
you cant,,,

Yeah, you can. Easily. Because you can do a DNA analysis of the virus and all you need is for one other coworker to have the virus with the same DNA, and Bob's your uncle.

Many states are telling workers that if their employer calls them back to work, their unemployment benefits will be cut off if they refuse. Donald Trump signed an EO ordering meat processing plants to stay open. Trump is prepared to sacrifice low wage workers to the economy.

The reason why the rate of death is so high in America is because so many people lack health insurance and can't afford to treat "underlying conditions", so they fester. The only country in the first world with a declining life expectancy. Monsanto frankenfood, over-processed, low nutrient, high fat junk food. Lack of fresh food in poor neighbourhoods. The cheapest food in the world, and like all cheap goods, you get what you pay for.

"Essential workers" are rapidly turning into "expendable workers". After all they're old/sick/fat/poor and they're likely not even white.

So your "brilliant" suggestion was what? That the President show how much he "cares" about people by letting them starve because the food supply lines shut down? Why do I think that if he'd gone that way, THEN you'd be bitching about how he was the ultimate eeeevil in the universe for NOT making sure people had food?

Why don't you cut to the chase, be honest, and just admit that you think Trump is evil because everything he champions is a direct refutation of the mindless "Take care of me, Mommy Government" mindset you have wasted your life pursuing? Then perhaps we can finally move on to you understanding that there is nothing that you recommend that anyone who isn't a useless waste of oxygen like you wants any part of.

 

[progressive hunter]

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

Congrats, you have passed 4th grade math!

The point is, that this isn’t over. It’s actually a long way from being over. We aren’t shutting down the country because of the people that HAVE died. We are doing it to protect the people that WILL die. We are fighting to prevent 0.02% from becoming 0.1% or 1%.

No, we are not. The policy is wrong and will cost more lives than if no policy had been put in place.

That doesn’t seem likely. Did you see what happened in New York? Do you want that everywhere?

NY was an anomaly. Again odds of you dying if you’re under 59 are very slim.

NY was what happens when the virus takes hold before mitigation.

No. NYC happens when you infect nursing homes at a rapid rate. They are an outlier. Didn’t happen anywhere else in the country. And still 98% of those who died are those who either old and or very unhealthy. We can protect them and open the country. They were wrong in terms of how many hospital beds and ventilators they would need. Need to follow Sweden’s model.

Sweden’s Coronavirus Strategy Will Soon Be the World’s

Herd immunity is the only realistic option—the question is how to get there safely.

www.foreignaffairs.com

Nursing homes are everywhere dude. Unhealthy people are everywhere. Old people are everywhere.

The more you open up the country, the harder it is to protect them. Old, unhealthy, nursing home patients cannot exist in isolation. They are almost by definition reliant on others for activities of daily life.

And they can remain on lockdown. The rest of us should be able to go out and give the economy a boost. Set up testing at nursing homes to test those going in (workers). Vaccines are not 100% effective. When would you reopen?

Id reopen when we can identify, trace and isolate cases, like you do with any outbreak.

It’ll happen. It won’t be that long.

How long. Guesstimate.

Different place to place. Depends on how competent your state is.

I’m not a big fan of the “Jesus take the wheel” approach.

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

We are all going to get infected sooner or later

and those with underlying medical conditions will die from it

but everyone else will survive just as humans always have

I don't believe that's true. Not everyone gets the flu every year.

True

some of us may postpone the inevitable for two years

But sooner or later...

There's nothing inevitable about it.

I suppose total isolation in space might keep the chinese disease at bay

but here on earth only one person out of a million can live in total isolation

It doesn't require total isolation. It requires contact tracing and testing. Find out who has it, isolate them, find out who they possibly gave it to, test them, isolate those that turn out to be infect, etc. etc. etc. Find the disease, track it, end it.

Or spread it and allow for herd immunity.

Lets say there are 100 of us and 25 are old or at risk. We protect the 25 but we 75 go out. We all get it and then the virus has nowhere to go and dies out and then we release the remaining 25.

The very fact that 75 out of 100 has it means the 25 aren’t protected.

That’s how it always works. Healthy protect the vulnerable.

Here that’s what I thought we were doing by social distancing. The healthy are sacrificing to protect the vulnerable. Yet, what I’m hearing is that the healthy should not be “punished” and shouldn’t have to protect the vulnerable, who are only a very small percentage.

we protect them better by garnering herd immunity. This was supposed to flatten the curve not lockdown til there is a cure. By garnering herd immunity we protect the vulnerable. By doing what we are doing now we prolong the pain for everyone. ECONOMIC Pain is real. It’s lives vs lives not $$$ vs lives

There never was a curve to flatten. Even in the hardest hit New York where the deaths were deliberate the hospitals were never really overwhelmed.

Never overwhelmed? That's nonsense. They were totally overwhelmed. They were flying in doctors/nurses from all over the country. They had built hundreds of ICU beds into makeshift units in OR suites. It was nuts.

just because they brought in extra resources doesnt mean they were overwhelmed,,,only a few of the hospitals were overwhelmed while others barely saw an increase
if you look into it you will find that most of those resources werent used and later dismantled and went back from where they came,,,

Sorry dude, but I know people who were in the thick of it. It was a disaster.

I call bullshit!

Good for you.

They say it was a disaster but it was not. I want More statistical data such as how close to death were those who ultimately died from this. Such as those in nursing homes who had months or weeks to live anyway. Average age there is 85 and average life span is 80 in the US.

This statement suggests their lives aren’t as valuable.

They aren’t. They have lived 2x my lifespan. I’d gladly give up my life for my kids for example. Doesn’t mean I want to kill people but I want to make it as palatable as possible for everyone. Deaths are part of life. We have a car accident every 30 minutes in the US but we don’t stop driving.

When someone is killed in a car accident, guilt is assessed, charges are laid, and the guilty party has to pay the injured party for their damages.

Trump is trying to make it so that if your employer doesn't take steps to protect you from the virus, you're not allowed to sue them for making you sick. And if you get sick, they cans till fire you, and you lose your health insurance.

What protections do the WORKERS have to keep them safe?

Workers don’t have to go to work. It’s their choice. It’s our country. Your opinion is unwanted. It’s not up to your employer but you. Everyone knows if you wash your hands and don’t touch your face you won’t get it and if you do there is a 99.9% chance you ll be fine. You’re a drama queen.

Well Dr. Azoz aren't you the bright one! I guess the part where you're a medical doctor too. The doctors and the scientists say you're full of shit, but then we really didn't need them to tell us what we already knew. And maybe if you do get it, nothing bad will happen to you. And I guess you play Russian Roulette all the time with your life.

I choose sensible precautions. So do my family and friends. That's why none of us have gotten sick. We plan to keep it that way, and besides, in Canada. It's why the death rate in Canada

Who says it's "your" country, troll? Where's you evidence that you're aren't just the lying Russian bot we all have you pegged for?

since we know youre from canada you need to shut your fucking mouth about our country and who live here,,,

 

[Cecilie1200]

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

Congrats, you have passed 4th grade math!

The point is, that this isn’t over. It’s actually a long way from being over. We aren’t shutting down the country because of the people that HAVE died. We are doing it to protect the people that WILL die. We are fighting to prevent 0.02% from becoming 0.1% or 1%.

No, we are not. The policy is wrong and will cost more lives than if no policy had been put in place.

That doesn’t seem likely. Did you see what happened in New York? Do you want that everywhere?

NY was an anomaly. Again odds of you dying if you’re under 59 are very slim.

NY was what happens when the virus takes hold before mitigation.

No. NYC happens when you infect nursing homes at a rapid rate. They are an outlier. Didn’t happen anywhere else in the country. And still 98% of those who died are those who either old and or very unhealthy. We can protect them and open the country. They were wrong in terms of how many hospital beds and ventilators they would need. Need to follow Sweden’s model.

Sweden’s Coronavirus Strategy Will Soon Be the World’s

Herd immunity is the only realistic option—the question is how to get there safely.

www.foreignaffairs.com

Nursing homes are everywhere dude. Unhealthy people are everywhere. Old people are everywhere.

The more you open up the country, the harder it is to protect them. Old, unhealthy, nursing home patients cannot exist in isolation. They are almost by definition reliant on others for activities of daily life.

And they can remain on lockdown. The rest of us should be able to go out and give the economy a boost. Set up testing at nursing homes to test those going in (workers). Vaccines are not 100% effective. When would you reopen?

Id reopen when we can identify, trace and isolate cases, like you do with any outbreak.

It’ll happen. It won’t be that long.

How long. Guesstimate.

Different place to place. Depends on how competent your state is.

I’m not a big fan of the “Jesus take the wheel” approach.

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

We are all going to get infected sooner or later

and those with underlying medical conditions will die from it

but everyone else will survive just as humans always have

I don't believe that's true. Not everyone gets the flu every year.

True

some of us may postpone the inevitable for two years

But sooner or later...

There's nothing inevitable about it.

I suppose total isolation in space might keep the chinese disease at bay

but here on earth only one person out of a million can live in total isolation

It doesn't require total isolation. It requires contact tracing and testing. Find out who has it, isolate them, find out who they possibly gave it to, test them, isolate those that turn out to be infect, etc. etc. etc. Find the disease, track it, end it.

Or spread it and allow for herd immunity.

Lets say there are 100 of us and 25 are old or at risk. We protect the 25 but we 75 go out. We all get it and then the virus has nowhere to go and dies out and then we release the remaining 25.

The very fact that 75 out of 100 has it means the 25 aren’t protected.

That’s how it always works. Healthy protect the vulnerable.

Here that’s what I thought we were doing by social distancing. The healthy are sacrificing to protect the vulnerable. Yet, what I’m hearing is that the healthy should not be “punished” and shouldn’t have to protect the vulnerable, who are only a very small percentage.

we protect them better by garnering herd immunity. This was supposed to flatten the curve not lockdown til there is a cure. By garnering herd immunity we protect the vulnerable. By doing what we are doing now we prolong the pain for everyone. ECONOMIC Pain is real. It’s lives vs lives not $$$ vs lives

There never was a curve to flatten. Even in the hardest hit New York where the deaths were deliberate the hospitals were never really overwhelmed.

Never overwhelmed? That's nonsense. They were totally overwhelmed. They were flying in doctors/nurses from all over the country. They had built hundreds of ICU beds into makeshift units in OR suites. It was nuts.

just because they brought in extra resources doesnt mean they were overwhelmed,,,only a few of the hospitals were overwhelmed while others barely saw an increase
if you look into it you will find that most of those resources werent used and later dismantled and went back from where they came,,,

Sorry dude, but I know people who were in the thick of it. It was a disaster.

I call bullshit!

Good for you.

They say it was a disaster but it was not. I want More statistical data such as how close to death were those who ultimately died from this. Such as those in nursing homes who had months or weeks to live anyway. Average age there is 85 and average life span is 80 in the US.

This statement suggests their lives aren’t as valuable.

They aren’t. They have lived 2x my lifespan. I’d gladly give up my life for my kids for example. Doesn’t mean I want to kill people but I want to make it as palatable as possible for everyone. Deaths are part of life. We have a car accident every 30 minutes in the US but we don’t stop driving.

When someone is killed in a car accident, guilt is assessed, charges are laid, and the guilty party has to pay the injured party for their damages.

Trump is trying to make it so that if your employer doesn't take steps to protect you from the virus, you're not allowed to sue them for making you sick. And if you get sick, they cans till fire you, and you lose your health insurance.

What protections do the WORKERS have to keep them safe?

Workers don’t have to go to work. It’s their choice. It’s our country. Your opinion is unwanted. It’s not up to your employer but you. Everyone knows if you wash your hands and don’t touch your face you won’t get it and if you do there is a 99.9% chance you ll be fine. You’re a drama queen.

Well Dr. Azoz aren't you the bright one! I guess the part where you're a medical doctor too. The doctors and the scientists say you're full of shit, but then we really didn't need them to tell us what we already knew. And maybe if you do get it, nothing bad will happen to you. And I guess you play Russian Roulette all the time with your life.

I choose sensible precautions. So do my family and friends. That's why none of us have gotten sick. We plan to keep it that way, and besides, in Canada. It's why the death rate in Canada

Who says it's "your" country, troll? Where's you evidence that you're aren't just the lying Russian bot we all have you pegged for?

I always love it when fools who get their "science" from reading media headlines start telling us about what "the doctors and scientists" say, as if they're one hive-minded collective that 100% agrees on everything.

As for "I know that me and my family haven't gotten sick because I've been so wise in hiding in my house", I'd like to inform you that my husband, my brother-in-law, and I have gone out to work every weekday and many of the weekends during this entire pandemic, plus having to continue shopping and other regular errands, and no one in my family has gotten sick, either. It's almost like this, too, is an example of how your existence has been wasted on bullshit.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I'll feel more comfortable fully participating in the economy once there is the appropriate widespread testing, effective therapies and a vaccine

Thats funny shit right there.

1. Wide spread testing will only heighten your fear.
2 & 3. Haha, enjoy hiding under your bed until it's time to switch to your coffin

Those of us who are self-isolating aren't "afraid". Those who are in denial are the ones who are afraid. You're terrified your economy is collapsing.

When the Weather Channel says "Tornado warning", I go to the basement, because that's the safest thing to do, and I stay there until the storm passes. What are the odds you're going to be killed in a tornado? Less than being killed in this pandemic. Yet you wouldn't dare go outside during the tornado warning. This virus is far more deadly than a tornado, and you can't see it or know it's there. You don't know if you're one of the "lucky" ones it kills, until you get it.

Nobody is hiding under beds. We're adjusting to life lived with social distancing. We're developing strategies to work without endangering others, especially the essential workers who have been risking their lives daily, to let us shelter at home. We're finding ways to keep ourselves from getting the virus, because health care workers can't take much more of this. They're dying because Trump was unprepared.

You still don't have adequate testing or public health strategies to keep people safe. That's all on Trump. His leadership has been worse than non-existant. The USA would be better off if Trump had just gone back to the White House and stayed there, saying and doing nothing. Everything he did do, made things worse. Much, much worse, and his actions, continue to cost American lives.

The USA hasn't really ever been shut down. And yet you're pushing to reduce restrictions. 85,000 dead, 1,054,000 still sick, and people are out drinking, shoulder to should, with no masks. Americans are behaving like petulant toddlers, and like petulant toddlers, nothing is going to happen until they cut out the nonsense and start behaving themselves in a medically resonable way.

I'm willing to let these fools kill themselves, but they're endangering others and prolonging the shut down, and making their own greatest fears a reality. In the meantime, countries which really did lock down, with testing and PPE's, are re-opening, slowly.

I see water parks are opening in the USA???? Are you fucking shitting me? All pools, splash pads, and water parks are closed for the season in Canada. I'd been counting the weeks until the pool opens. Rats!!! Time to use those Pilates tapes I have.

#Staythefuckathome.

Whatever, honey. "I'm huddling in my house, avoiding other people and ranting like a mad thing on the Internet about the eeeeevils of reopening, but how DARE you say I'm afraid? YOU'RE the one who's afraid!"

Why don't you REALLY be willing to "let these fools kill themselves" by minding your own fucking business? It amazes me that I have to keep saying this because your peabrain can't wrap around it, but do you see me going to Canadian message boards and spewing my guts about how you should run your country "correctly"? No. Know why? Because I genuinely do not give a fuck.

Try it.

 

[colfax_m]

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

Congrats, you have passed 4th grade math!

The point is, that this isn’t over. It’s actually a long way from being over. We aren’t shutting down the country because of the people that HAVE died. We are doing it to protect the people that WILL die. We are fighting to prevent 0.02% from becoming 0.1% or 1%.

No, we are not. The policy is wrong and will cost more lives than if no policy had been put in place.

That doesn’t seem likely. Did you see what happened in New York? Do you want that everywhere?

NY was an anomaly. Again odds of you dying if you’re under 59 are very slim.

NY was what happens when the virus takes hold before mitigation.

No. NYC happens when you infect nursing homes at a rapid rate. They are an outlier. Didn’t happen anywhere else in the country. And still 98% of those who died are those who either old and or very unhealthy. We can protect them and open the country. They were wrong in terms of how many hospital beds and ventilators they would need. Need to follow Sweden’s model.

Sweden’s Coronavirus Strategy Will Soon Be the World’s

Herd immunity is the only realistic option—the question is how to get there safely.

www.foreignaffairs.com

Nursing homes are everywhere dude. Unhealthy people are everywhere. Old people are everywhere.

The more you open up the country, the harder it is to protect them. Old, unhealthy, nursing home patients cannot exist in isolation. They are almost by definition reliant on others for activities of daily life.

And they can remain on lockdown. The rest of us should be able to go out and give the economy a boost. Set up testing at nursing homes to test those going in (workers). Vaccines are not 100% effective. When would you reopen?

Id reopen when we can identify, trace and isolate cases, like you do with any outbreak.

It’ll happen. It won’t be that long.

How long. Guesstimate.

Different place to place. Depends on how competent your state is.

I’m not a big fan of the “Jesus take the wheel” approach.

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

We are all going to get infected sooner or later

and those with underlying medical conditions will die from it

but everyone else will survive just as humans always have

I don't believe that's true. Not everyone gets the flu every year.

True

some of us may postpone the inevitable for two years

But sooner or later...

There's nothing inevitable about it.

I suppose total isolation in space might keep the chinese disease at bay

but here on earth only one person out of a million can live in total isolation

It doesn't require total isolation. It requires contact tracing and testing. Find out who has it, isolate them, find out who they possibly gave it to, test them, isolate those that turn out to be infect, etc. etc. etc. Find the disease, track it, end it.

Or spread it and allow for herd immunity.

Lets say there are 100 of us and 25 are old or at risk. We protect the 25 but we 75 go out. We all get it and then the virus has nowhere to go and dies out and then we release the remaining 25.

The very fact that 75 out of 100 has it means the 25 aren’t protected.

That’s how it always works. Healthy protect the vulnerable.

Here that’s what I thought we were doing by social distancing. The healthy are sacrificing to protect the vulnerable. Yet, what I’m hearing is that the healthy should not be “punished” and shouldn’t have to protect the vulnerable, who are only a very small percentage.

we protect them better by garnering herd immunity. This was supposed to flatten the curve not lockdown til there is a cure. By garnering herd immunity we protect the vulnerable. By doing what we are doing now we prolong the pain for everyone. ECONOMIC Pain is real. It’s lives vs lives not $$$ vs lives

There never was a curve to flatten. Even in the hardest hit New York where the deaths were deliberate the hospitals were never really overwhelmed.

Never overwhelmed? That's nonsense. They were totally overwhelmed. They were flying in doctors/nurses from all over the country. They had built hundreds of ICU beds into makeshift units in OR suites. It was nuts.

just because they brought in extra resources doesnt mean they were overwhelmed,,,only a few of the hospitals were overwhelmed while others barely saw an increase
if you look into it you will find that most of those resources werent used and later dismantled and went back from where they came,,,

Sorry dude, but I know people who were in the thick of it. It was a disaster.

I call bullshit!

Good for you.

They say it was a disaster but it was not. I want More statistical data such as how close to death were those who ultimately died from this. Such as those in nursing homes who had months or weeks to live anyway. Average age there is 85 and average life span is 80 in the US.

This statement suggests their lives aren’t as valuable.

They aren’t. They have lived 2x my lifespan. I’d gladly give up my life for my kids for example. Doesn’t mean I want to kill people but I want to make it as palatable as possible for everyone. Deaths are part of life. We have a car accident every 30 minutes in the US but we don’t stop driving.

We don’t treat them as less valuable.

Why can’t I drive 120 MPH down the interstate? I got a new car. I’d love to open it up.

You actually can. Many do. You should not but your car is not maxed out at 60MPH.

Back to playing games? You know understand the point of the question.

Nope. When I buy a car I know the laws. You cannot just change the laws after I buy it via an executive order. Happened in Wisconsin and was overturned. I don't believe this is a major crisis so go through the proper procedures.

You can always change the laws. Laws aren’t written in stone. The speed limit can be 60 one day, 65 the next. Laws change. Situations change.

You said we don’t outlaw driving because it is dangerous. Well, we put limits on it specifically to make it less dangerous.

Laws don't change via a whim from the Governor. If you want to fine me for going to a bar then so be it but don't ban me from doing it. What if they say driving over 30 is dangerous? You think people would just accept that? They went too far with this.

Governors have emergency powers granted them by the legislature so that they can respond to crises such as this.

Except I do not believe a virus that kills 1 out of every 10k in population is an "emergency" and other states are open so many disagree with him. Even NY is opened today. As more data comes out I believe his "emergency" is a false statement. So if an Islamist kills 100 people in Boston, does Baker have the power to arrest all Islamists? Where does his power end? Honest question. In March we were unsure how deadly this is. Now we see it is statistically minor. Why isn't MA open when NY is?

Your disagreement is noted. I’m sure you’ll consider that the next time you vote for dictator.

Didn’t they shut down Boston when they were hunting down the marathon bomber?

No. Watertown and only because the shooters were supposedly armed. Clear and present danger and it was done by the police for a few hours not for several months.

So you’re saying that once the threat was neutralized, it went back to normal?

A pandemic isn’t a clear and present danger?

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

Congrats, you have passed 4th grade math!

The point is, that this isn’t over. It’s actually a long way from being over. We aren’t shutting down the country because of the people that HAVE died. We are doing it to protect the people that WILL die. We are fighting to prevent 0.02% from becoming 0.1% or 1%.

No, we are not. The policy is wrong and will cost more lives than if no policy had been put in place.

That doesn’t seem likely. Did you see what happened in New York? Do you want that everywhere?

NY was an anomaly. Again odds of you dying if you’re under 59 are very slim.

NY was what happens when the virus takes hold before mitigation.

No. NYC happens when you infect nursing homes at a rapid rate. They are an outlier. Didn’t happen anywhere else in the country. And still 98% of those who died are those who either old and or very unhealthy. We can protect them and open the country. They were wrong in terms of how many hospital beds and ventilators they would need. Need to follow Sweden’s model.

Sweden’s Coronavirus Strategy Will Soon Be the World’s

Herd immunity is the only realistic option—the question is how to get there safely.

www.foreignaffairs.com

Nursing homes are everywhere dude. Unhealthy people are everywhere. Old people are everywhere.

The more you open up the country, the harder it is to protect them. Old, unhealthy, nursing home patients cannot exist in isolation. They are almost by definition reliant on others for activities of daily life.

And they can remain on lockdown. The rest of us should be able to go out and give the economy a boost. Set up testing at nursing homes to test those going in (workers). Vaccines are not 100% effective. When would you reopen?

Id reopen when we can identify, trace and isolate cases, like you do with any outbreak.

It’ll happen. It won’t be that long.

How long. Guesstimate.

Different place to place. Depends on how competent your state is.

I’m not a big fan of the “Jesus take the wheel” approach.

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

We are all going to get infected sooner or later

and those with underlying medical conditions will die from it

but everyone else will survive just as humans always have

I don't believe that's true. Not everyone gets the flu every year.

True

some of us may postpone the inevitable for two years

But sooner or later...

There's nothing inevitable about it.

I suppose total isolation in space might keep the chinese disease at bay

but here on earth only one person out of a million can live in total isolation

It doesn't require total isolation. It requires contact tracing and testing. Find out who has it, isolate them, find out who they possibly gave it to, test them, isolate those that turn out to be infect, etc. etc. etc. Find the disease, track it, end it.

Or spread it and allow for herd immunity.

Lets say there are 100 of us and 25 are old or at risk. We protect the 25 but we 75 go out. We all get it and then the virus has nowhere to go and dies out and then we release the remaining 25.

The very fact that 75 out of 100 has it means the 25 aren’t protected.

That’s how it always works. Healthy protect the vulnerable.

Here that’s what I thought we were doing by social distancing. The healthy are sacrificing to protect the vulnerable. Yet, what I’m hearing is that the healthy should not be “punished” and shouldn’t have to protect the vulnerable, who are only a very small percentage.

we protect them better by garnering herd immunity. This was supposed to flatten the curve not lockdown til there is a cure. By garnering herd immunity we protect the vulnerable. By doing what we are doing now we prolong the pain for everyone. ECONOMIC Pain is real. It’s lives vs lives not $$$ vs lives

There never was a curve to flatten. Even in the hardest hit New York where the deaths were deliberate the hospitals were never really overwhelmed.

Never overwhelmed? That's nonsense. They were totally overwhelmed. They were flying in doctors/nurses from all over the country. They had built hundreds of ICU beds into makeshift units in OR suites. It was nuts.

just because they brought in extra resources doesnt mean they were overwhelmed,,,only a few of the hospitals were overwhelmed while others barely saw an increase
if you look into it you will find that most of those resources werent used and later dismantled and went back from where they came,,,

Sorry dude, but I know people who were in the thick of it. It was a disaster.

I call bullshit!

Good for you.

They say it was a disaster but it was not. I want More statistical data such as how close to death were those who ultimately died from this. Such as those in nursing homes who had months or weeks to live anyway. Average age there is 85 and average life span is 80 in the US.

This statement suggests their lives aren’t as valuable.

They aren’t. They have lived 2x my lifespan. I’d gladly give up my life for my kids for example. Doesn’t mean I want to kill people but I want to make it as palatable as possible for everyone. Deaths are part of life. We have a car accident every 30 minutes in the US but we don’t stop driving.

We don’t treat them as less valuable.

Why can’t I drive 120 MPH down the interstate? I got a new car. I’d love to open it up.

You actually can. Many do. You should not but your car is not maxed out at 60MPH.

Back to playing games? You know understand the point of the question.

Nope. When I buy a car I know the laws. You cannot just change the laws after I buy it via an executive order. Happened in Wisconsin and was overturned. I don't believe this is a major crisis so go through the proper procedures.

You can always change the laws. Laws aren’t written in stone. The speed limit can be 60 one day, 65 the next. Laws change. Situations change.

You said we don’t outlaw driving because it is dangerous. Well, we put limits on it specifically to make it less dangerous.

Laws don't change via a whim from the Governor. If you want to fine me for going to a bar then so be it but don't ban me from doing it. What if they say driving over 30 is dangerous? You think people would just accept that? They went too far with this.

Governors have emergency powers granted them by the legislature so that they can respond to crises such as this.

Except I do not believe a virus that kills 1 out of every 10k in population is an "emergency" and other states are open so many disagree with him. Even NY is opened today. As more data comes out I believe his "emergency" is a false statement. So if an Islamist kills 100 people in Boston, does Baker have the power to arrest all Islamists? Where does his power end? Honest question. In March we were unsure how deadly this is. Now we see it is statistically minor. Why isn't MA open when NY is?

Your disagreement is noted. I’m sure you’ll consider that the next time you vote for dictator.

Didn’t they shut down Boston when they were hunting down the marathon bomber?

No. Watertown and only because the shooters were supposedly armed. Clear and present danger and it was done by the police for a few hours not for several months.

So you’re saying that once the threat was neutralized, it went back to normal?

A pandemic isn’t a clear and present danger?

Yep, it did. And that chase didn't impact me whatsoever. If me going to a bar would impede doctors from curing the sick its one thing but me going to a bar has zero impact on old people in nursing homes. Why can I not go to a bar?

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

Congrats, you have passed 4th grade math!

The point is, that this isn’t over. It’s actually a long way from being over. We aren’t shutting down the country because of the people that HAVE died. We are doing it to protect the people that WILL die. We are fighting to prevent 0.02% from becoming 0.1% or 1%.

No, we are not. The policy is wrong and will cost more lives than if no policy had been put in place.

That doesn’t seem likely. Did you see what happened in New York? Do you want that everywhere?

NY was an anomaly. Again odds of you dying if you’re under 59 are very slim.

NY was what happens when the virus takes hold before mitigation.

No. NYC happens when you infect nursing homes at a rapid rate. They are an outlier. Didn’t happen anywhere else in the country. And still 98% of those who died are those who either old and or very unhealthy. We can protect them and open the country. They were wrong in terms of how many hospital beds and ventilators they would need. Need to follow Sweden’s model.

Sweden’s Coronavirus Strategy Will Soon Be the World’s

Herd immunity is the only realistic option—the question is how to get there safely.

www.foreignaffairs.com

Nursing homes are everywhere dude. Unhealthy people are everywhere. Old people are everywhere.

The more you open up the country, the harder it is to protect them. Old, unhealthy, nursing home patients cannot exist in isolation. They are almost by definition reliant on others for activities of daily life.

And they can remain on lockdown. The rest of us should be able to go out and give the economy a boost. Set up testing at nursing homes to test those going in (workers). Vaccines are not 100% effective. When would you reopen?

Id reopen when we can identify, trace and isolate cases, like you do with any outbreak.

It’ll happen. It won’t be that long.

How long. Guesstimate.

Different place to place. Depends on how competent your state is.

I’m not a big fan of the “Jesus take the wheel” approach.

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

We are all going to get infected sooner or later

and those with underlying medical conditions will die from it

but everyone else will survive just as humans always have

I don't believe that's true. Not everyone gets the flu every year.

True

some of us may postpone the inevitable for two years

But sooner or later...

There's nothing inevitable about it.

I suppose total isolation in space might keep the chinese disease at bay

but here on earth only one person out of a million can live in total isolation

It doesn't require total isolation. It requires contact tracing and testing. Find out who has it, isolate them, find out who they possibly gave it to, test them, isolate those that turn out to be infect, etc. etc. etc. Find the disease, track it, end it.

Or spread it and allow for herd immunity.

Lets say there are 100 of us and 25 are old or at risk. We protect the 25 but we 75 go out. We all get it and then the virus has nowhere to go and dies out and then we release the remaining 25.

The very fact that 75 out of 100 has it means the 25 aren’t protected.

That’s how it always works. Healthy protect the vulnerable.

Here that’s what I thought we were doing by social distancing. The healthy are sacrificing to protect the vulnerable. Yet, what I’m hearing is that the healthy should not be “punished” and shouldn’t have to protect the vulnerable, who are only a very small percentage.

we protect them better by garnering herd immunity. This was supposed to flatten the curve not lockdown til there is a cure. By garnering herd immunity we protect the vulnerable. By doing what we are doing now we prolong the pain for everyone. ECONOMIC Pain is real. It’s lives vs lives not $$$ vs lives

There never was a curve to flatten. Even in the hardest hit New York where the deaths were deliberate the hospitals were never really overwhelmed.

Never overwhelmed? That's nonsense. They were totally overwhelmed. They were flying in doctors/nurses from all over the country. They had built hundreds of ICU beds into makeshift units in OR suites. It was nuts.

just because they brought in extra resources doesnt mean they were overwhelmed,,,only a few of the hospitals were overwhelmed while others barely saw an increase
if you look into it you will find that most of those resources werent used and later dismantled and went back from where they came,,,

Sorry dude, but I know people who were in the thick of it. It was a disaster.

I call bullshit!

Good for you.

They say it was a disaster but it was not. I want More statistical data such as how close to death were those who ultimately died from this. Such as those in nursing homes who had months or weeks to live anyway. Average age there is 85 and average life span is 80 in the US.

This statement suggests their lives aren’t as valuable.

They aren’t. They have lived 2x my lifespan. I’d gladly give up my life for my kids for example. Doesn’t mean I want to kill people but I want to make it as palatable as possible for everyone. Deaths are part of life. We have a car accident every 30 minutes in the US but we don’t stop driving.

When someone is killed in a car accident, guilt is assessed, charges are laid, and the guilty party has to pay the injured party for their damages.

Trump is trying to make it so that if your employer doesn't take steps to protect you from the virus, you're not allowed to sue them for making you sick. And if you get sick, they cans till fire you, and you lose your health insurance.

What protections do the WORKERS have to keep them safe?

Workers don’t have to go to work. It’s their choice. It’s our country. Your opinion is unwanted. It’s not up to your employer but you. Everyone knows if you wash your hands and don’t touch your face you won’t get it and if you do there is a 99.9% chance you ll be fine. You’re a drama queen.

Well Dr. Azoz aren't you the bright one! I guess the part where you're a medical doctor too. The doctors and the scientists say you're full of shit, but then we really didn't need them to tell us what we already knew. And maybe if you do get it, nothing bad will happen to you. And I guess you play Russian Roulette all the time with your life.

I choose sensible precautions. So do my family and friends. That's why none of us have gotten sick. We plan to keep it that way, and besides, in Canada. It's why the death rate in Canada

Who says it's "your" country, troll? Where's you evidence that you're aren't just the lying Russian bot we all have you pegged for?

No. SOME doctors say I am full of shit. They don't know. I think you're full of shit. You're just old and scared and want the rest of us to suffer like you do. No thanks. I had the virus. It was just a sickness. 99.9% are fine. Stop being such a drama queen. Russian Roulette? So you're saying 1 in 6 who gets this dies? Link....

 

[Dragonlady]

It makes one think there might be ulterior and maybe even nefarious motives.

The old adage, “Follow the money,” might apply.

Have you seen the NFL's re opening schedule plan?
It is eye opening.

In a nutshell the NFL is saying that if ONE STATE refuses to let a single team open they won't allow any team to open.
You think states are going to stop that MASSIVE pile of money to slip away? Then ask yourself if playing Football is "essential"

The NFL does approximately 8 billion in revenue. There are corporations that piss 8 billion. I think we need sports to boost morale more than anything. Not downplaying the financial significance of the NFL potentially shutting down, just saying other businesses are more important to the U.S. economy.

The decisions to open or close a team will be made at the city level and that amount of money is MASSIVE to a city who's revenue stream has all but dried up because of a lockdown that is self imposed.

Why are you complaining about the destruction of the American economy? Trump promised you that he would undo everything Obama did, and Obama's greatest achievement was the longest sustained recovery in the history of the nation.

Obamacare hasn't been completely destroyed yet, but the economy has been. Promise kept!!!

I can see why you wouldn't understand why people care about destroying an economy based on freedom and personal responsibility, since your government-sucking ass has never had any interest in those things. Trump gave us a great economy prior to coronavirus precisely by undoing all the bullshit Obama did, and hearing mindless government-worshipping drones like you prattling on and on about how we should "really" think it was all wonderful is unlikely to convince us to believe you over our own eyes and reasoning abilities.

I have yet to understand what it was that convinced you that anyone was viewing you as a source of knowledge and wisdom, or even vaguely interesting input.

OBAMA gave you a great economy. Trump destroyed it.

You spout off like a trained seal about a system of government which takes care of its people first, because you've been brainwashed to think that putting corporations first is working for you. All of the liberal lead democracies who listened to the scientists, and put testing first, are starting to re-open, while the cases and death continues to rise in the USA, and Italy and the UK, all with bully boy conservative leadership, were ill prepared, and your leaders behaved like idiots in a pandemic.

The Canadian economy is taking hits, but it's already re-opening, on the downside of the infection. With thousands more recovered patients. Of course, we have competent governance which works for its people and a Prime Minister whose focus is not his re-election or his ego, and who actually followed the advice our scientists gave him. Denial of science seems to be a conservative American thing. 40 years of Reublican approved education.

Our healthcare workers aren't marching in the streets for PPE's carrying pictures of dead health care workers. We have a robust national testing system. If I want a test, I really can get a test, and an accurate one at that. Not that Abbott garbage with the 30% false negative.

Our province has 3 times the number of recovered cases to active cases, and we just opened some stores this week - hardward stores, nurseries. Construction started last week, with protection and social distancing. No beauty salons, bars or restaurants except take out. My neighbour is back working full time. Pools, splash pads are water parks are closed for the summer.

Keep thinking that letting people suffer while the corporations are fat and healthy, is working for you as a nation. You count of the sick and the dead, say its a total fucking disaster.

 

[NotYourBody]

I don't live in fear either. That's why I don't shake people's hands and I do wear a mask. Because it's not about ME. It's about the kid in the grocery store, cleaning my cart before and I after I use it. I don't want him to get sick, and if I wear a mask, my chances of giving it to him are less, should I become infected. And if he gets infected, he won't give it to his grandparents or parents, or his little sister. So it's safer for HIM to go to work. He is subjecting himself to hundreds of people every day, helping to keep us safe.

It's so health care workers don't have to deal with more cases, more illness and more death. A lot of them are getting sick and dying too. Anything that saves lives is worth it, even if you think it's dumb.

I was at the grocery story the other week and a woman brushed past me twice. I was about to say something to her on the second occasion, when the man behind me in line said very sharply - "Watch YOUR distance! What is wrong with you? Show some respect for others and watch where you're going". It was her husband.

When someone says to me "I'm not changing my behaviour and I'm not wearing a mask", my first thought is "My aren't you the selfish prick". You're more important than anybody else, and if you're making others sick, so what! Grow the fuck up and act like a man instead of an entitled spoiled child.

#StayTheFuckAtHome

STFU Karen. You don't gotta shake anyone's hands because you are not a breadwinner.


Social Justice Deez Nutz.

Maybe you should be brave like Karen and JUST SAY NO to shaking hands.

I've always said no. I'm not grabbing someone's hand and mashing it all around in my own. Not unless there is a soap and hot water nearby. For all I know they just got off the toilet and did not wash their hands.

 

[Dragonlady]

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

Congrats, you have passed 4th grade math!

The point is, that this isn’t over. It’s actually a long way from being over. We aren’t shutting down the country because of the people that HAVE died. We are doing it to protect the people that WILL die. We are fighting to prevent 0.02% from becoming 0.1% or 1%.

No, we are not. The policy is wrong and will cost more lives than if no policy had been put in place.

That doesn’t seem likely. Did you see what happened in New York? Do you want that everywhere?

NY was an anomaly. Again odds of you dying if you’re under 59 are very slim.

NY was what happens when the virus takes hold before mitigation.

No. NYC happens when you infect nursing homes at a rapid rate. They are an outlier. Didn’t happen anywhere else in the country. And still 98% of those who died are those who either old and or very unhealthy. We can protect them and open the country. They were wrong in terms of how many hospital beds and ventilators they would need. Need to follow Sweden’s model.

Sweden’s Coronavirus Strategy Will Soon Be the World’s

Herd immunity is the only realistic option—the question is how to get there safely.

www.foreignaffairs.com

Nursing homes are everywhere dude. Unhealthy people are everywhere. Old people are everywhere.

The more you open up the country, the harder it is to protect them. Old, unhealthy, nursing home patients cannot exist in isolation. They are almost by definition reliant on others for activities of daily life.

And they can remain on lockdown. The rest of us should be able to go out and give the economy a boost. Set up testing at nursing homes to test those going in (workers). Vaccines are not 100% effective. When would you reopen?

Id reopen when we can identify, trace and isolate cases, like you do with any outbreak.

It’ll happen. It won’t be that long.

How long. Guesstimate.

Different place to place. Depends on how competent your state is.

I’m not a big fan of the “Jesus take the wheel” approach.

0.02% of the entire country today has died as a result of COVID. That’s out of everyone, not just the infected.

We are all going to get infected sooner or later

and those with underlying medical conditions will die from it

but everyone else will survive just as humans always have

I don't believe that's true. Not everyone gets the flu every year.

True

some of us may postpone the inevitable for two years

But sooner or later...

There's nothing inevitable about it.

I suppose total isolation in space might keep the chinese disease at bay

but here on earth only one person out of a million can live in total isolation

It doesn't require total isolation. It requires contact tracing and testing. Find out who has it, isolate them, find out who they possibly gave it to, test them, isolate those that turn out to be infect, etc. etc. etc. Find the disease, track it, end it.

Or spread it and allow for herd immunity.

Lets say there are 100 of us and 25 are old or at risk. We protect the 25 but we 75 go out. We all get it and then the virus has nowhere to go and dies out and then we release the remaining 25.

The very fact that 75 out of 100 has it means the 25 aren’t protected.

That’s how it always works. Healthy protect the vulnerable.

Here that’s what I thought we were doing by social distancing. The healthy are sacrificing to protect the vulnerable. Yet, what I’m hearing is that the healthy should not be “punished” and shouldn’t have to protect the vulnerable, who are only a very small percentage.

we protect them better by garnering herd immunity. This was supposed to flatten the curve not lockdown til there is a cure. By garnering herd immunity we protect the vulnerable. By doing what we are doing now we prolong the pain for everyone. ECONOMIC Pain is real. It’s lives vs lives not $$$ vs lives

There never was a curve to flatten. Even in the hardest hit New York where the deaths were deliberate the hospitals were never really overwhelmed.

Never overwhelmed? That's nonsense. They were totally overwhelmed. They were flying in doctors/nurses from all over the country. They had built hundreds of ICU beds into makeshift units in OR suites. It was nuts.

just because they brought in extra resources doesnt mean they were overwhelmed,,,only a few of the hospitals were overwhelmed while others barely saw an increase
if you look into it you will find that most of those resources werent used and later dismantled and went back from where they came,,,

Sorry dude, but I know people who were in the thick of it. It was a disaster.

I call bullshit!

Good for you.

They say it was a disaster but it was not. I want More statistical data such as how close to death were those who ultimately died from this. Such as those in nursing homes who had months or weeks to live anyway. Average age there is 85 and average life span is 80 in the US.

This statement suggests their lives aren’t as valuable.

They aren’t. They have lived 2x my lifespan. I’d gladly give up my life for my kids for example. Doesn’t mean I want to kill people but I want to make it as palatable as possible for everyone. Deaths are part of life. We have a car accident every 30 minutes in the US but we don’t stop driving.

When someone is killed in a car accident, guilt is assessed, charges are laid, and the guilty party has to pay the injured party for their damages.

Trump is trying to make it so that if your employer doesn't take steps to protect you from the virus, you're not allowed to sue them for making you sick. And if you get sick, they cans till fire you, and you lose your health insurance.

What protections do the WORKERS have to keep them safe?

Workers don’t have to go to work. It’s their choice. It’s our country. Your opinion is unwanted. It’s not up to your employer but you. Everyone knows if you wash your hands and don’t touch your face you won’t get it and if you do there is a 99.9% chance you ll be fine. You’re a drama queen.

Well Dr. Azoz aren't you the bright one! I guess the part where you're a medical doctor too. The doctors and the scientists say you're full of shit, but then we really didn't need them to tell us what we already knew. And maybe if you do get it, nothing bad will happen to you. And I guess you play Russian Roulette all the time with your life.

I choose sensible precautions. So do my family and friends. That's why none of us have gotten sick. We plan to keep it that way, and besides, in Canada. It's why the death rate in Canada

Who says it's "your" country, troll? Where's you evidence that you're aren't just the lying Russian bot we all have you pegged for?

No. SOME doctors say I am full of shit. They don't know. I think you're full of shit. You're just old and scared and want the rest of us to suffer like you do. No thanks. I had the virus. It was just a sickness. 99.9% are fine. Stop being such a drama queen. Russian Roulette? So you're saying 1 in 6 who gets this dies? Link....

Easy:

COVID Live - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...

www.worldometers.info

Global death rate 15%. USA death rate 25%. That's 1/4.

I'm not scared. I go out all of the time. This idea that those of us who are social distance are all hiding under beds is just as stupid as all of the other things that dolts like you are always saying about liberals - complete and utter bullshit. I'm not going to restaurants, or local gatherings. I'm not having a birthday party next week and there's no fireworks for my birthday (May 24th Weekend), but I am having a birthday dinner with my daughter's family. We're not going out for retail therapy with the girls, but I took my granddaughter for a walk along the water's edge last week.

I don't really go to bars, but I do play poker. There no live poker games and I doubt there will be for a while - the era of passing around chips and cards is over. I'm going to miss live poker. I suspect casinos will go to video dealers and chips.

Anyone who doesn't clearly understand that things will never go back to "normal" ever again, is dreaming in technicolor.