1,000 Jurists to EU: Settlements are Legal

[P F Tinmore]

Of course settlements are absolutely legal. I and others have stated so on this forum many times. However of course the ignorant haters on here don't want to accept it so therefore dispute it.

________

1,000 Jurists to EU: Settlements are Legal

Mammoth petition delivered to Catherine Ashton states: '1967 lines' don't exist.
​

By Gil Ronen
First Publish: 8/4/2013, 7:16 PM


A mammoth jurists' petition delivered to European Union foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton states that the EU is wrong in holding that Jewish communities in Judea and Samaria are illegal, and that the term “1967 lines” does not exist in international law.

The letter is signed by over 1,000 jurists worldwide.

Among the signatories are former justice minister Prof. Yaakov Ne'eman; former UN Ambassaor Dr. Meir Rosen; Britain's Baroness Prof. Ruth Deech, Prof. Eliav Shochetman and Prof. Talia Einhorn. They include legal scholars from the U.S., Australia, Belgium, Bolivia, Brazil, Canada, Switzerland, Chile, Czechoslovakia, Greece, India, Ireland, Italy, Mexico, Malta, Holland, Norway, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore, Taiwan, South Africa, Sweden and, of course, Israel.

The man behind the initiative is Dr. Alan Baker, Israel's former ambassador to Canada and legal adviser to the Foreign Ministry, who currently heads the International Action Division of the Legal Forum for Israel.

Baker was also a member of the three-person committee headed by former Supreme Court judge Edmond Levy, known as the Levy Committee, which pronounced that Judea and Samaria were not occupied territory.

Dr. Baker explained to Arutz Sheva that there is “no such thing” as the 1967 lines. “There never was such a thing. The matter of the borders is on the agenda of the negotiations, The EU cannot dictate a subject that is on the agenda of the negotiations. The pre-1967 lines are (1949) armistice lines. These are not recognized lines or security lines. In the Oslo process, it was agreed between us and the Palestinians that the matter of borders will be negotiated. The term '1967 lines' does not appear anywhere in our agreement with the Palestinians, therefore it is a legal and factual aberration to determine that these are our lines.”

"The second thing is the determination that the settlements are illegal according to international law. It is true that most of the world thinks so, but that does not make it true legally. Legally, the clause in the Geneva Convention that they use to say that settlements are illegal, was not intended to refer to cases like our settlements, but to prevent the forced transfer of populations by the Nazis. This is not relevant to the Israeli settlements.”

1,000 Jurists to EU: Settlements are Legal - Global Agenda - News - Israel National News

From Wiki:

"Alan Baker (Hebrew: אלן בייקר*; born 1947) is an Israeli expert in international law and former ambassador of the state of Israel to Canada. He is the director of the Institute for Contemporary Affairs at the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs and a former partner in the Tel Aviv law firm of Moshe, Bloomfield, Kobo, Baker & Co..."

"Baker explained the reference to the continued Israeli presence in the West Bank pursuant to the Oslo accords between the PLO and Israel in the interview as follows, [6] stating:

“'The legal claim today and the arguments rest on the Oslo accords. It was resolved - and the Palestinians agreed - that the settlements' fate would be determined in a future peace agreement.

"'After we signed those accords, which are still legally in force, we are no longer an occupying power, but we are instead present in the territories with their consent and subject to the outcome of negotiations.'[5]"

Since Dr. Baker lives beyond the Green Line, does that mean he has no permanent residence status in the Occupied Territories?

Alan Baker (diplomat) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

“'The legal claim today and the arguments rest on the Oslo accords. It was resolved - and the Palestinians agreed - that the settlements' fate would be determined in a future peace agreement.

The PLO is an unelected Palestinian organization that was in virtual collapse after Gulf War I. Israel saved it by bringing it back from exile and appointing it the legal representative of the Palestinian people.

Oslo was signed without input from the people. It was not approved by the people or ratified by their elected representatives.

I don't see how it can be viewed as a legally binding agreement.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is a legitimate point.

The PLO is an unelected Palestinian organization that was in virtual collapse after Gulf War I. Israel saved it by bringing it back from exile and appointing it the legal representative of the Palestinian people.

(COMMENT)

OK, lets say that Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas is the Emperor with no clothes. Who speaks for the Palestinian People?

Remembering that it is a HAMAS has a position and protocol:

3. The Arab Heads of State have agreed to unite their political efforts at the international and diplomatic level to eliminate the effects of the aggression and to ensure the withdrawal of the aggressive Israeli forces from the Arab lands which have been occupied since the aggression of June 5. This will be done within the framework of the main principles by which the Arab States abide, namely,

• no peace with Israel,
• no recognition of Israel,
• no negotiations with it,
• and insistence on the rights of the Palestinian people in their own country.

SOURCE: http://unispal.un.org/unispal.nsf/9a....D0JPgdYe.dpuf

In many respects, the Khartoum Resolution is what made US Military Base persona non grata in the Middle East leaving the State of Israel its only ally, and set the tone for future negotiations with Israel so difficult to kick-start. It is also the catalyst for the rhetoric that the "State of Israel" does not exist (calling the region "Palestine" instead) and the policy of the many terrorist organizations to adopt "Jihad" or continuous "armed struggles:"

• Article 13 of HAMAS Covenant: There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
• Article 9 of PNC Charter: Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine.

Oslo was signed without input from the people. It was not approved by the people or ratified by their elected representatives.

I don't see how it can be viewed as a legally binding agreement.

(COMMENT)

OK, let's say that I don't entire discount your position. HAMAS has no horsepower, and has not indicated that it has the knowledge, skills and abilities to operate on the same political plane as Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas. Where does that leave us?

So what is the solution?

Does this mean that the Palestinian People have no voice?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is a legitimate point.

The PLO is an unelected Palestinian organization that was in virtual collapse after Gulf War I. Israel saved it by bringing it back from exile and appointing it the legal representative of the Palestinian people.

(COMMENT)

OK, lets say that Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas is the Emperor with no clothes. Who speaks for the Palestinian People?

Remembering that it is a HAMAS has a position and protocol:

3. The Arab Heads of State have agreed to unite their political efforts at the international and diplomatic level to eliminate the effects of the aggression and to ensure the withdrawal of the aggressive Israeli forces from the Arab lands which have been occupied since the aggression of June 5. This will be done within the framework of the main principles by which the Arab States abide, namely,

• no peace with Israel,
• no recognition of Israel,
• no negotiations with it,
• and insistence on the rights of the Palestinian people in their own country.

SOURCE: http://unispal.un.org/unispal.nsf/9a....D0JPgdYe.dpuf

In many respects, the Khartoum Resolution is what made US Military Base persona non grata in the Middle East leaving the State of Israel its only ally, and set the tone for future negotiations with Israel so difficult to kick-start. It is also the catalyst for the rhetoric that the "State of Israel" does not exist (calling the region "Palestine" instead) and the policy of the many terrorist organizations to adopt "Jihad" or continuous "armed struggles:"

• Article 13 of HAMAS Covenant: There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
• Article 9 of PNC Charter: Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine.

Oslo was signed without input from the people. It was not approved by the people or ratified by their elected representatives.

I don't see how it can be viewed as a legally binding agreement.

(COMMENT)

OK, let's say that I don't entire discount your position. HAMAS has no horsepower, and has not indicated that it has the knowledge, skills and abilities to operate on the same political plane as Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas. Where does that leave us?

So what is the solution?

Does this mean that the Palestinian People have no voice?

Most Respectfully,
R

Good points. Israel always tries to back door its positions by going to other sources and ignoring the Palestinian people. It has been doing that for a hundred years.

Now that Palestine has a legally elected and constituted government, Israel is too chicken to talk to them. They must negotiate with their illegal, unelected government.

 

[Hossfly]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is a legitimate point.

The PLO is an unelected Palestinian organization that was in virtual collapse after Gulf War I. Israel saved it by bringing it back from exile and appointing it the legal representative of the Palestinian people.

(COMMENT)

OK, lets say that Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas is the Emperor with no clothes. Who speaks for the Palestinian People?

Remembering that it is a HAMAS has a position and protocol:


In many respects, the Khartoum Resolution is what made US Military Base persona non grata in the Middle East leaving the State of Israel its only ally, and set the tone for future negotiations with Israel so difficult to kick-start. It is also the catalyst for the rhetoric that the "State of Israel" does not exist (calling the region "Palestine" instead) and the policy of the many terrorist organizations to adopt "Jihad" or continuous "armed struggles:"

• Article 13 of HAMAS Covenant: There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
• Article 9 of PNC Charter: Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine.

Oslo was signed without input from the people. It was not approved by the people or ratified by their elected representatives.

I don't see how it can be viewed as a legally binding agreement.

(COMMENT)

OK, let's say that I don't entire discount your position. HAMAS has no horsepower, and has not indicated that it has the knowledge, skills and abilities to operate on the same political plane as Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas. Where does that leave us?

So what is the solution?

Does this mean that the Palestinian People have no voice?

Most Respectfully,
R

Good points. Israel always tries to back door its positions by going to other sources and ignoring the Palestinian people. It has been doing that for a hundred years.

Now that Palestine has a legally elected and constituted government, Israel is too chicken to talk to them. They must negotiate with their illegal, unelected government.

Never forget: "We don't negotiate with terrorists". ~~B.Netanyahu

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is a legitimate point.


(COMMENT)

OK, lets say that Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas is the Emperor with no clothes. Who speaks for the Palestinian People?

Remembering that it is a HAMAS has a position and protocol:


In many respects, the Khartoum Resolution is what made US Military Base persona non grata in the Middle East leaving the State of Israel its only ally, and set the tone for future negotiations with Israel so difficult to kick-start. It is also the catalyst for the rhetoric that the "State of Israel" does not exist (calling the region "Palestine" instead) and the policy of the many terrorist organizations to adopt "Jihad" or continuous "armed struggles:"

• Article 13 of HAMAS Covenant: There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
• Article 9 of PNC Charter: Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine.

(COMMENT)

OK, let's say that I don't entire discount your position. HAMAS has no horsepower, and has not indicated that it has the knowledge, skills and abilities to operate on the same political plane as Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas. Where does that leave us?

So what is the solution?

Does this mean that the Palestinian People have no voice?

Most Respectfully,
R

Good points. Israel always tries to back door its positions by going to other sources and ignoring the Palestinian people. It has been doing that for a hundred years.

Now that Palestine has a legally elected and constituted government, Israel is too chicken to talk to them. They must negotiate with their illegal, unelected government.

Never forget: "We don't negotiate with terrorists". ~~B.Netanyahu

Israel's euphemism for too chicken to talk to the elected government.

 

[Hossfly]

Good points. Israel always tries to back door its positions by going to other sources and ignoring the Palestinian people. It has been doing that for a hundred years.

Now that Palestine has a legally elected and constituted government, Israel is too chicken to talk to them. They must negotiate with their illegal, unelected government.

Never forget: "We don't negotiate with terrorists". ~~B.Netanyahu

Israel's euphemism for too chicken to talk to the elected government.

I think the other posters and the viewers realize that you are one of the representatives of Hamas in the U.S. and as such you will never admit that Hamas is a bunch of terrorists. Maybe Tinnie thinks we should also negotiate with Al Qaeda since Hamas apparently are friends with them.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Never forget: "We don't negotiate with terrorists". ~~B.Netanyahu

Israel's euphemism for too chicken to talk to the elected government.

I think the other posters and the viewers realize that you are one of the representatives of Hamas in the U.S. and as such you will never admit that Hamas is a bunch of terrorists. Maybe Tinnie thinks we should also negotiate with Al Qaeda since Hamas apparently are friends with them.

Pure speculation and irrelevant.

 

[Hossfly]

Israel's euphemism for too chicken to talk to the elected government.

I think the other posters and the viewers realize that you are one of the representatives of Hamas in the U.S. and as such you will never admit that Hamas is a bunch of terrorists. Maybe Tinnie thinks we should also negotiate with Al Qaeda since Hamas apparently are friends with them.

Pure speculation and irrelevant.

OK. Then what is your interest in the goings on in that region? Why do you kick against the pricks?

 

[P F Tinmore]

I think the other posters and the viewers realize that you are one of the representatives of Hamas in the U.S. and as such you will never admit that Hamas is a bunch of terrorists. Maybe Tinnie thinks we should also negotiate with Al Qaeda since Hamas apparently are friends with them.

Pure speculation and irrelevant.

OK. Then what is your interest in the goings on in that region? Why do you kick against the pricks?

The Palestinians hold the legal and moral high ground.

That is a position worth defending.

 

[Lipush]

When Germany lost World War I Germany lost land. When Germany lost World War II Germany lost more land.

The cost of starting a war of annihilation and losing is losing land. The Palestinians should have been deported right after Israel's victory in the 1967 Six Day War, and all of the land Israel conquered should have been formally annexed.

I would have let the Christian Palestinians stay, but I would have thrown the rest into the desert.

Is that like the Final Solution?

I don't recall you protesting when Sunni-Man said that all world's Jews should be put in an Isolated Island, as the only solution to "The Jewish problem".

 

[Bloodrock44]

Pure speculation and irrelevant.

OK. Then what is your interest in the goings on in that region? Why do you kick against the pricks?

The Palestinians hold the legal and moral high ground.

That is a position worth defending.

If they hold the legal ground then tell them to sue. If they hold the moral high ground then tell them to invade and take it back. Just quit your incessant whining.

 

[Hossfly]

Pure speculation and irrelevant.

OK. Then what is your interest in the goings on in that region? Why do you kick against the pricks?

The Palestinians hold the legal and moral high ground.

That is a position worth defending.

Really, Tinnie? Is that why you post day and night championing these "Palestinians" -- especially Hamas since we know you can't stand the other group. By the way, you once stated that you work, always have held a job, and that there was no computer at work so I am wondering how you are able to participate on a forum during working hours.

 

[P F Tinmore]

OK. Then what is your interest in the goings on in that region? Why do you kick against the pricks?

The Palestinians hold the legal and moral high ground.

That is a position worth defending.

Really, Tinnie? Is that why you post day and night championing these "Palestinians" -- especially Hamas since we know you can't stand the other group. By the way, you once stated that you work, always have held a job, and that there was no computer at work so I am wondering how you are able to participate on a forum during working hours.

I don't. I just work weird hours.

 

[Sunni Man]

The title of the OP should have been; "1,000 'Jewish' Jurists to EU: Settlements are Legal" ..

 

[Hossfly]

The title of the OP should have been; "1,000 'Jewish' Jurists to EU: Settlements are Legal" ..

Same difference, Sunshine. You don't say, SunniMan? Perhaps it is like what happens in the Muslim world -- 1,000 Muslim Jurists say throw someone in prison if they allegedly commit blasphemy and let him rot in there.

 

[Hossfly]

The Palestinians hold the legal and moral high ground.

That is a position worth defending.

Really, Tinnie? Is that why you post day and night championing these "Palestinians" -- especially Hamas since we know you can't stand the other group. By the way, you once stated that you work, always have held a job, and that there was no computer at work so I am wondering how you are able to participate on a forum during working hours.

I don't. I just work weird hours.

What a wonderful excuse for being on the forum night and day!!! It almost seems like you are awaiting your instructions from Hamas and that is why your hours are weird. I don't think anyone has ever experienced such weird working hours when they had jobs as Tinnie wants us to believe he has.
Or maybe it's 'wired' hours.