12 Dead in Mass Shooting at So.Cal Bar

[Vandalshandle]

You fucks won't address it, so let me ask again:

Why should I, an innocent American citizen, be punished, and have my constitutional right to defend my life and family removed, due to the actions of a criminal murderer?

^^^ This is the kind of whining that led me to finally say "FUCK THE SECOND AMENDMENT"

Yea, of course my life is forfeit because I don't believe that guns are simple tools and it's the murderers themselves that are the problem.

You twatwaffles whine all day about empathy for victims, but you literally don't have a single scrap of it that's real.

I already said I don't want you disarmed unless you're irresponsible. Are you having a hard time reading today or are you telling me you're irresponsible or a lunatic?

You fucks won't address it, so let me ask again:

Why should I, an innocent American citizen, be punished, and have my constitutional right to defend my life and family removed, due to the actions of a criminal murderer?

^^^ This is the kind of whining that led me to finally say "FUCK THE SECOND AMENDMENT"

She was absolutely right. Self-defense is a basic human right. If you want to strip law-abiding people of that right, then you are no better than the criminals who kill others.

Okay. The whole idea is that with many less guns in the country, less will end up in the hands of criminals. Most of the guns confiscated in crimes were obtained illegally. Less guns, less will be available to steal or sell illegally on the street.

-------------------------------------------- guns would be imported from Russia and other places for a black market . Little old island nation of 'england' can't stop illegal guns from getting in . And the USA can't stop illegal drugs from flooding the USA OldLady .

26 Gun murders (equiv. 130) in England vs. *11,004* in US Annually

 

[2aguy]

Does anyone realize how few people are actually killed by mass public shooters in this country....more people are killed falling off ladders than are killed by mass pubic shooters, and except for 2017, more people are killed by lawn mowers than by mass shooters...

Does any of this sink into the brains of anti gunners?

 

[pismoe]

You fucks won't address it, so let me ask again:

Why should I, an innocent American citizen, be punished, and have my constitutional right to defend my life and family removed, due to the actions of a criminal murderer?

^^^ This is the kind of whining that led me to finally say "FUCK THE SECOND AMENDMENT"

Yea, of course my life is forfeit because I don't believe that guns are simple tools and it's the murderers themselves that are the problem.

You twatwaffles whine all day about empathy for victims, but you literally don't have a single scrap of it that's real.

I already said I don't want you disarmed unless you're irresponsible. Are you having a hard time reading today or are you telling me you're irresponsible or a lunatic?

You fucks won't address it, so let me ask again:

Why should I, an innocent American citizen, be punished, and have my constitutional right to defend my life and family removed, due to the actions of a criminal murderer?

^^^ This is the kind of whining that led me to finally say "FUCK THE SECOND AMENDMENT"

She was absolutely right. Self-defense is a basic human right. If you want to strip law-abiding people of that right, then you are no better than the criminals who kill others.

Okay. The whole idea is that with many less guns in the country, less will end up in the hands of criminals. Most of the guns confiscated in crimes were obtained illegally. Less guns, less will be available to steal or sell illegally on the street.

-------------------------------------------- guns would be imported from Russia and other places for a black marker . Little old island nation of 'england' can't stop illegal guns from getting in . And the USA can't stop illegal drugs from flooding the USA OldLady .

The Mexican drug cartels are already building gun factories on the border....

-------------------------------------- and the Cartels will be building fine weapons because they have the MONEY for machinery , proper steal , thoughtful gun designers and guns will be easily available for sale on the Black Market .

 

[2aguy]

You fucks won't address it, so let me ask again:

Why should I, an innocent American citizen, be punished, and have my constitutional right to defend my life and family removed, due to the actions of a criminal murderer?

^^^ This is the kind of whining that led me to finally say "FUCK THE SECOND AMENDMENT"

Yea, of course my life is forfeit because I don't believe that guns are simple tools and it's the murderers themselves that are the problem.

You twatwaffles whine all day about empathy for victims, but you literally don't have a single scrap of it that's real.

I already said I don't want you disarmed unless you're irresponsible. Are you having a hard time reading today or are you telling me you're irresponsible or a lunatic?

You fucks won't address it, so let me ask again:

Why should I, an innocent American citizen, be punished, and have my constitutional right to defend my life and family removed, due to the actions of a criminal murderer?

^^^ This is the kind of whining that led me to finally say "FUCK THE SECOND AMENDMENT"

She was absolutely right. Self-defense is a basic human right. If you want to strip law-abiding people of that right, then you are no better than the criminals who kill others.

Okay. The whole idea is that with many less guns in the country, less will end up in the hands of criminals. Most of the guns confiscated in crimes were obtained illegally. Less guns, less will be available to steal or sell illegally on the street.

-------------------------------------------- guns would be imported from Russia and other places for a black market . Little old island nation of 'england' can't stop illegal guns from getting in . And the USA can't stop illegal drugs from flooding the USA OldLady .

26 Gun murders (equiv. 130) in England vs. *11,004* in US Annually

Yes.... focus on an irrelevant statistic in the gun control debate..... you morons tell us that more guns = more gun crime..that is the basis for demanding banning and confiscating guns...

You then show us Britain....Britain had that number of gun murders before they banned guns.... and now they have that number after they banned guns....showing that gun control had no bearing on criminals using guns to murder people..... our knife murder is higher than their total murder rate...

What you have to desperately try to hide is the fact that after banning and confiscating guns, the gun crime rate in Britain has gone up....not down, showing that your premise that more gun control will keep guns out of the hands of criminals is a lie....

Meanwhile...here in the U.S....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

 

[2aguy]

You fucks won't address it, so let me ask again:

Why should I, an innocent American citizen, be punished, and have my constitutional right to defend my life and family removed, due to the actions of a criminal murderer?

^^^ This is the kind of whining that led me to finally say "FUCK THE SECOND AMENDMENT"

Yea, of course my life is forfeit because I don't believe that guns are simple tools and it's the murderers themselves that are the problem.

You twatwaffles whine all day about empathy for victims, but you literally don't have a single scrap of it that's real.

I already said I don't want you disarmed unless you're irresponsible. Are you having a hard time reading today or are you telling me you're irresponsible or a lunatic?

You fucks won't address it, so let me ask again:

Why should I, an innocent American citizen, be punished, and have my constitutional right to defend my life and family removed, due to the actions of a criminal murderer?

^^^ This is the kind of whining that led me to finally say "FUCK THE SECOND AMENDMENT"

She was absolutely right. Self-defense is a basic human right. If you want to strip law-abiding people of that right, then you are no better than the criminals who kill others.

Okay. The whole idea is that with many less guns in the country, less will end up in the hands of criminals. Most of the guns confiscated in crimes were obtained illegally. Less guns, less will be available to steal or sell illegally on the street.

-------------------------------------------- guns would be imported from Russia and other places for a black market . Little old island nation of 'england' can't stop illegal guns from getting in . And the USA can't stop illegal drugs from flooding the USA OldLady .

26 Gun murders (equiv. 130) in England vs. *11,004* in US Annually

And another point.....of those 10,982 murdered with guns in the U.S.....80-90% of the victims are criminals engaged in crime, or their friends and family caught in their lifestyle......

So if you stay out of democrat party controlled inner cities.... your chances of being shot and killed are better than in Europe....

Gang Killers In Chicago Used Christmas Gatherings To Target Their Victims

Gang killers, knowing their targets would be home for Christmas, launched a bloody weekend of shootings in Chicago that left 11 dead and another 37 wounded.

"We now know that the majority of these shootings and homicides were targeted attacks by gangs against potential rivals who were at holiday gatherings. This was followed by several acts of retaliatory gun violence," police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi said in a statement Monday.

--------------

The violence primarily occurred in areas with historical gang conflicts on the South and West Side of Chicago."


And this is what we keep telling you anti gunners and you refuse to believe it....

"Ninety percent of those fatally wounded had gang affiliations, criminal histories and were pre-identified by the department's strategic subject algorithm as being a potential suspect or victim of gun violence," Guglielmi said.
===============

As Gun-Related Deaths Increase, Prior Criminal Records Is Common Link Among Shooters, Victims | Wisconsin Public Radio

Almost two-thirds of the fatal shootings in the state have taken place in Milwaukee. The others are scattered around 15 different cities and towns. In almost all cases, however, both victims and alleged perpetrators have criminal records.

Mallory O'Brien, of the Milwaukee Homicide Review Commission, tracks those numbers for the city of Milwaukee.

"(About) 94 percent of our victims have an arrest history and 93 percent of our suspects have an arrest history," O'Brien said.

O'Brien said the same percentage is true for non-fatal shooting incidents. There's been an increase in those numbers as well. By the end of June of last year, there were 204 cases and the count at the six-month mark this year, there have been 248 incidents -- a 21-percent increase. She said there' also been an increase in the number of shooting incidents with multiple victims.
=========

Roy Exum: How We Stop The Bullets

David Kennedy, a renowned criminal justice professor and co-chair of the National Network for Safe Communities, believes that places like the 1500 block of East 50th Street where Deontrey was killed, or Central Avenue where two other Chattanoogans were shot around the same time, aren’t necessarily bad areas. Good people live in those areas, just as the overwhelming numbers of those who live in our inner city are decent and law-abiding citizens.
No, our new focus isn’t on neighborhoods like Alton Park or East Chattanooga but instead on “hot” places” and “hot” people. In an article entitled, “The Story Behind the Nation’s Falling Body Count,” Kennedy writes, “Research on hot spots shows violence to be concentrated in ‘micro’ places, rather than ‘dangerous neighborhoods,’ as the popular idea goes. Blocks, corners, and buildings representing just five or six percent of an entire city will drive half of its serious crime.”
The same is true about people. “We now know that homicide and gun violence are overwhelmingly concentrated among serious offenders operating in groups: gangs, drug crews, and the like representing under half of one percent of a city's population who commit half to three-quarters of all murders.”

 

[Natural Citizen]

And people call me radical.....
The FDA?

Yeah. The FDA and the pharmaceutical companies are pretty much in bed together. It's pretty much a revolving door between one and the other as far as employment goes. Not good.Not withstanding the fact that together, they kill any competition with regard to the market for alternative and natural products.

Mainly, it's the revoving door, though. That's not good.

Ron Paul condemns close ties between FDA and Big Pharma

 

[gipper]

This is the new level.....not just people at mass shootings....but people experiencing MORE than one mass shooting.

What bothers me about it is that nobody ever talks about the fact that almost every single one of these combatants were prescribed and on psychotropic drugs. I posted a rather long list around here some place a while back. It was disturbing.

The fact that nobody ever talks about that is very telling to me that people aren't really interested in discussing the more fundamental issue here.

The fact that every other commercial between news breaks is a drug commercial warning of suicidal thoughts and depression if you take their product is also very telling about why we never hear it discussed on those same news outlets. Have to cater to the sponsors. In this case and in many others we've read about, they're more like sponsors of mass murder.

Some of us are suspicious of the affects of big pharmaceutical’s nasty drugs and being the cause or and integral cause of these mass shootings. As you say, the fact that the MSM and our corrupt federal government ignore this, could be proof they are the cause.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Some of us are suspicious of the affects of big pharmaceutical’s nasty drugs and being the cause or and integral cause of these mass shootings. As you say, the fact that the MSM and our corrupt federal government ignore this, could be proof they are the cause.

Yeah. We'll always be in the minority, though. Read my sig : /

 

[OldLady]

You fucks won't address it, so let me ask again:

Why should I, an innocent American citizen, be punished, and have my constitutional right to defend my life and family removed, due to the actions of a criminal murderer?

^^^ This is the kind of whining that led me to finally say "FUCK THE SECOND AMENDMENT"

Yea, of course my life is forfeit because I don't believe that guns are simple tools and it's the murderers themselves that are the problem.

You twatwaffles whine all day about empathy for victims, but you literally don't have a single scrap of it that's real.

I already said I don't want you disarmed unless you're irresponsible. Are you having a hard time reading today or are you telling me you're irresponsible or a lunatic?

You're the one advocating that the 2nd is "worthless" and shouldn't exist, thereby arguing that because of /your/ personal belief (aka fear of guns) that /I/ am left at the mercy of fucking criminals - and that's not even fucking mentioning the wolves, bears, and moose in my back yard here either.

I should have to "prove" I'm worthy of defending my fucking life because /you/ don't like the 2nd, the NRA, or guns that have existed in this nation basically from the beginning? I fucking think not.

I'm sick of trying to talk to someone who won't respond to my posts, just goes ahead and vomits some gun nutter garbage that probably has no more to do with your reality than it does to what I said.
You aren't adding anything to the conversation whatever.

 

[miketx]

If your neighbor had an active case of Ebola Fever, would you want them removed from society? Keep your ridiculous Nazi comparisons to yourself.

---------------------------- ebola can be proven , mental illness can not be proven . Some people on this board could be accused of mental illness because of their political point of view i suppose Hunarcy .

And mental illness can be proven by the irrational ravings of the mentally ill. And, of course, by the dead bodies left in their wake. Honestly, I would rather err on the side of caution than mop up the aftermath of a shooting like happened in California.

--------------------------------------- i think that rational or irrational are simply OPINIONS until laws are broken Hunarcy

Sorry that you think that way. You, and people who think like you, are the problem. Your ilk EMPTIED the asylums back in the 70's, turning thousands out and creating the homeless problem we have today, where the mentally ill are reduced to screaming at lamp posts instead of getting the help they needed. And, you insist on having the mentally ill live amongst us and shoot us because you seem unwilling to allow them to get the help they need.

Wrong...left wing social activists also pushed to clear out the mental hospitals.... mentally ill people apparently have the Right to be on the street without help..that is what they wanted, not us.

leftard scum want the prisons emptied as well.

 

[OldLady]

Two things for sure:
1) after Sandy Hook where little children were cut to pieces by gun fire, this country will do NOTHING about gun violence
2) crazy gun nuts will sell fear of having their phallic symbols taken away and cry "false flag"

1) no, you guys don't want to do anything to stop the shootings...as you keep showing by focusing on banning guns, and keeping the gun free zones that allow the killings to happen. The reason? You need dead children.....they are your best tool to push gun control.

2) You anti gun people.....it is obvious you have a psycho-sexual problem, and that it manifests itself in a sexual fixation of firearms...you need to get help.

You need dead children.....they are your best tool to push gun control.
That is an absolutely heinous thing to say and if you expect to even be considered in a reasonable conversation, you need to back off such a flakey retarded InfoWars type idea. You know very well it is not true. You know it and don't deny it.

 

[miketx]

Two things for sure:
1) after Sandy Hook where little children were cut to pieces by gun fire, this country will do NOTHING about gun violence
2) crazy gun nuts will sell fear of having their phallic symbols taken away and cry "false flag"

1) no, you guys don't want to do anything to stop the shootings...as you keep showing by focusing on banning guns, and keeping the gun free zones that allow the killings to happen. The reason? You need dead children.....they are your best tool to push gun control.

2) You anti gun people.....it is obvious you have a psycho-sexual problem, and that it manifests itself in a sexual fixation of firearms...you need to get help.

You need dead children.....they are your best tool to push gun control.
That is an absolutely heinous thing to say and if you expect to even be considered in a reasonable conversation, you need to back off such a flakey retarded InfoWars type idea. You know very well it is not true. You know it and don't deny it.

You lie

 

[OldLady]

You fucks won't address it, so let me ask again:

Why should I, an innocent American citizen, be punished, and have my constitutional right to defend my life and family removed, due to the actions of a criminal murderer?

^^^ This is the kind of whining that led me to finally say "FUCK THE SECOND AMENDMENT"

She was absolutely right. Self-defense is a basic human right. If you want to strip law-abiding people of that right, then you are no better than the criminals who kill others.

Okay. The whole idea is that with many less guns in the country, less will end up in the hands of criminals. Most of the guns confiscated in crimes were obtained illegally. Less guns, less will be available to steal or sell illegally on the street.

You’re never going to get rid of all guns. Unless you want a totalitarian police state, but even THEN, even if you were to send jackbooted thugs over to confiscate everyone’s guns, there will still be people with guns. If they don’t have them, they will make them.

So disarming law-abiding people is not the solution, because all it does is shift the balance of power to criminals, (and of course the government) being the only ones armed.

That makes all of us sitting ducks. You do realize that, don’t you?

I so want you people to learn to read.

 

[OldLady]

Two things for sure:
1) after Sandy Hook where little children were cut to pieces by gun fire, this country will do NOTHING about gun violence
2) crazy gun nuts will sell fear of having their phallic symbols taken away and cry "false flag"

1) no, you guys don't want to do anything to stop the shootings...as you keep showing by focusing on banning guns, and keeping the gun free zones that allow the killings to happen. The reason? You need dead children.....they are your best tool to push gun control.

2) You anti gun people.....it is obvious you have a psycho-sexual problem, and that it manifests itself in a sexual fixation of firearms...you need to get help.

You need dead children.....they are your best tool to push gun control.
That is an absolutely heinous thing to say and if you expect to even be considered in a reasonable conversation, you need to back off such a flakey retarded InfoWars type idea. You know very well it is not true. You know it and don't deny it.

You lie

Your feet stink.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Why do you want to give up your right to self defense? Have you bothered to study the history of this issue? If you had, you would know what a terrible idea this is.

Well, I appreciate your approach, gipper. I made the choice early in my life not to protect myself with a firearm and I have never changed my mind. I was not aware that a lot of other countries had ever had an automatic right to own guns emblazoned in their Constitution. In retrospect, I think THAT may be been a terrible idea. Certainly, the resistance to restricting ownership to responsible and stable people has been a terrible idea and if people don't start compromising on this, I think the threat of the 2nd going away is going to become more real.
My position on guns has always been radical and I have no hope whatsoever of ever seeing my country agree with me.

Again, you just stated your position is radical, so no one will ever convince you how wrong you are!

Maybe if you stop your hate speech on all sides, giving people pills for everything, and enforce the laws you have, well just maybe shit will change, but of course you will just want gun owners to give in when the majority of us did nothing wrong!

Quote some of my hate speech for me, Bruce. I mean real hate speech, as actually defined. My words.
Get back to me.

Your Nazi nonsense and I can point it out.

Now point where I spew the NRA narrative word for word.

You support the hateful view of Maxine Waters and Louis Farrakhan, so stop supporting those views...

I'm waiting

I have been waiting for your proof that I spew word for word what the NRA says and yet you never produced it.

Also anyone can search the word Nazi and your opinion of anyone that disagree with you...

Now go hide in a closet!

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

You fucks won't address it, so let me ask again:

Why should I, an innocent American citizen, be punished, and have my constitutional right to defend my life and family removed, due to the actions of a criminal murderer?

^^^ This is the kind of whining that led me to finally say "FUCK THE SECOND AMENDMENT"

She was absolutely right. Self-defense is a basic human right. If you want to strip law-abiding people of that right, then you are no better than the criminals who kill others.

Okay. The whole idea is that with many less guns in the country, less will end up in the hands of criminals. Most of the guns confiscated in crimes were obtained illegally. Less guns, less will be available to steal or sell illegally on the street.

You’re never going to get rid of all guns. Unless you want a totalitarian police state, but even THEN, even if you were to send jackbooted thugs over to confiscate everyone’s guns, there will still be people with guns. If they don’t have them, they will make them.

So disarming law-abiding people is not the solution, because all it does is shift the balance of power to criminals, (and of course the government) being the only ones armed.

That makes all of us sitting ducks. You do realize that, don’t you?

I so want you people to learn to read.

I did read what you wrote and in one type you claim you want solutions and later wrote fuck the second amendment while stating you have radical views.

So go drink a damn coke and teach the world to sing because someone will most likely kill even after that flower power child...

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

No, it's not that.

She thinks none of that is really the issue, she doesn't see the need for the 2nd Amendment. We are not having a conversation. She is comparing our nation with other nation's that don't have a 2nd Amendment. She wants our right to bear arms gone, that is what the media is telling folks, that we don't need it.

All I want her to address is these two videos, as the world authority on history has written, an armed people is a free people;

Breaking News - 12 Dead in Mass Shooting at So.Cal Bar

. .. . and there is no denying, America has more free speech, and more liberty than any other nation.

and there is no denying, America has more free speech, and more liberty than any other nation.
Something has gone wrong. Is it perhaps that we have let those two things take precedence over responsibility for a safe and sane society?

Then I suggest you call repealing your right to free speech and right to vote...

I can prove more people die because of your vote by showing you the wars you support and hate speech by our politicians beside Trump!

Someone is shooting up a high school in North Carolina this morning, Bruce. When are you people gonna stop your knee jerk reactions and think this over?

Really?

If found out the individual was not to have the guns when will you finally blame the LEO for their failure?

Never as usual!

Also if the individual is on a pill when will you blame the pill pushers?

Never as usual!

So tell me old lady how many more laws do you need to feel safe?

When will you get the Second Amendment repealed and while at it I demand your right to free speech and vote to be repealed because they are more dangerous!

So as you use those shootings go hide in a damn closet you pathetic excuse of a human!

The pill didn't shoot anyone.

The gun did not fire itself!

So blame yourself for how people act in life because you dope up kids and wonder why they go nuts!

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

There is another thread starting in Health & Lifestyle about the role antidepressants and other drugs may be playing in this suicidal/homicidal increase in violence.
Although it is easy to say "yes, they were mentally ill so of course they were on meds," I don't think we should dismiss the idea out of hand without taking a serious look at it. "Cutting edge" medical treatments over the years have been pretty wild. Like mercury to cure syphilis and bleeding patients to cure whatever ailed them. Electric shock treatments for depression were pretty rough, too, although they did seem to work for awhile.

So there's nothing wrong with taking a look see at what is happening. Think of what the doctor's advice was fifty years ago and compare it to today on any number of issues. Their ideas and treatments are always changing.

All that said, for the most part, I believe antidepressants are successful in helping most patients with garden variety depression. We still have a lot to learn, but let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater, either.

The only time gun nuts mention pharmaceuticals is when they are trying to deflect attention from another mass gun murder.

And when a mass shooter kills after LEO fails to do it job those like you blame gun owners that never kill.

Oh, owning two shotguns is not a gun but except to those that have their balls in their man purse.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

If the pillhead didn't have a gun, how many people would he have shot?

He could have used a truck and killed even more people.....the muslim terrorist in Nice, France used a rental Truck and murdered 86 people, not 12, and injured 450, not 18, in 5 minutes of driving.......

It isn't the tool...it is the target.

Yet another deflection. What a surprise. How many would he have "shot"?

You obviously don't care about how they die, since all you care about are getting rid of guns....do you understand that if there had been civilians there with their own legal guns, fewer people would have been killed....how do we know this..? Because from past mass public shootings with armed civilians on site have lower death numbers...

Also...do you realize there were 6 off duty police officers in that bar at the time of the Attack? All they could do was help people escape since they were not allowed to carry their guns with them into the bar when they were off duty.....that is another reason so many died...

The gun free zone status allowed more people to be killed...

Deflecting still. Yes, there are lots of ways to meet your maker.

You make erroneous assumptions. I have three long guns, including a tube-fed .22 semi-automatic. I favor banning concealed weapons, handguns, and high-powered rifles with high-capacity magazines. That covers most of the mass murders, and leaves me with what I need.

Santa Fe shooter used shotguns...

So no it will not stop...

 

[Natural Citizen]

These cats built a trebuchet.

They're not screwin around either...