12 Dead in Mass Shooting at So.Cal Bar

[OldLady]

You fucks won't address it, so let me ask again:

Why should I, an innocent American citizen, be punished, and have my constitutional right to defend my life and family removed, due to the actions of a criminal murderer?

^^^ This is the kind of whining that led me to finally say "FUCK THE SECOND AMENDMENT"

Yea, of course my life is forfeit because I don't believe that guns are simple tools and it's the murderers themselves that are the problem.

You twatwaffles whine all day about empathy for victims, but you literally don't have a single scrap of it that's real.

I already said I don't want you disarmed unless you're irresponsible. Are you having a hard time reading today or are you telling me you're irresponsible or a lunatic?

 

[OldLady]

And the FDA, too.

And people call me radical.....
The FDA?

 

[OldLady]

You fucks won't address it, so let me ask again:

Why should I, an innocent American citizen, be punished, and have my constitutional right to defend my life and family removed, due to the actions of a criminal murderer?

^^^ This is the kind of whining that led me to finally say "FUCK THE SECOND AMENDMENT"

She was absolutely right. Self-defense is a basic human right. If you want to strip law-abiding people of that right, then you are no better than the criminals who kill others.

Okay. The whole idea is that with many less guns in the country, less will end up in the hands of criminals. Most of the guns confiscated in crimes were obtained illegally. Less guns, less will be available to steal or sell illegally on the street.

 

[2aguy]

Sieg Heil.

If your neighbor had an active case of Ebola Fever, would you want them removed from society? Keep your ridiculous Nazi comparisons to yourself.

---------------------------- ebola can be proven , mental illness can not be proven . Some people on this board could be accused of mental illness because of their political point of view i suppose Hunarcy .

And mental illness can be proven by the irrational ravings of the mentally ill. And, of course, by the dead bodies left in their wake. Honestly, I would rather err on the side of caution than mop up the aftermath of a shooting like happened in California.

--------------------------------------- i think that rational or irrational are simply OPINIONS until laws are broken Hunarcy

Sorry that you think that way. You, and people who think like you, are the problem. Your ilk EMPTIED the asylums back in the 70's, turning thousands out and creating the homeless problem we have today, where the mentally ill are reduced to screaming at lamp posts instead of getting the help they needed. And, you insist on having the mentally ill live amongst us and shoot us because you seem unwilling to allow them to get the help they need.

Wrong...left wing social activists also pushed to clear out the mental hospitals.... mentally ill people apparently have the Right to be on the street without help..that is what they wanted, not us.

 

[buttercup]

You fucks won't address it, so let me ask again:

Why should I, an innocent American citizen, be punished, and have my constitutional right to defend my life and family removed, due to the actions of a criminal murderer?

^^^ This is the kind of whining that led me to finally say "FUCK THE SECOND AMENDMENT"

She was absolutely right. Self-defense is a basic human right. If you want to strip law-abiding people of that right, then you are no better than the criminals who kill others.

Okay. The whole idea is that with many less guns in the country, less will end up in the hands of criminals. Most of the guns confiscated in crimes were obtained illegally. Less guns, less will be available to steal or sell illegally on the street.

You’re never going to get rid of all guns. Unless you want a totalitarian police state, but even THEN, even if you were to send jackbooted thugs over to confiscate everyone’s guns, there will still be people with guns. If they don’t have them, they will make them.

So disarming law-abiding people is not the solution, because all it does is shift the balance of power to criminals, (and of course the government) being the only ones armed.

That makes all of us sitting ducks. You do realize that, don’t you?

 

[EverCurious]

You fucks won't address it, so let me ask again:

Why should I, an innocent American citizen, be punished, and have my constitutional right to defend my life and family removed, due to the actions of a criminal murderer?

^^^ This is the kind of whining that led me to finally say "FUCK THE SECOND AMENDMENT"

Yea, of course my life is forfeit because I don't believe that guns are simple tools and it's the murderers themselves that are the problem.

You twatwaffles whine all day about empathy for victims, but you literally don't have a single scrap of it that's real.

I already said I don't want you disarmed unless you're irresponsible. Are you having a hard time reading today or are you telling me you're irresponsible or a lunatic?

You're the one advocating that the 2nd is "worthless" and shouldn't exist, thereby arguing that because of /your/ personal belief (aka fear of guns) that /I/ am left at the mercy of fucking criminals - and that's not even fucking mentioning the wolves, bears, and moose in my back yard here either.

I should have to "prove" I'm worthy of defending my fucking life because /you/ don't like the 2nd, the NRA, or guns that have existed in this nation basically from the beginning? I fucking think not.

 

[2aguy]

If the pillhead didn't have a gun, how many people would he have shot?

He could have used a truck and killed even more people.....the muslim terrorist in Nice, France used a rental Truck and murdered 86 people, not 12, and injured 450, not 18, in 5 minutes of driving.......

It isn't the tool...it is the target.

Yet another deflection. What a surprise. How many would he have "shot"?

You obviously don't care about how they die, since all you care about are getting rid of guns....do you understand that if there had been civilians there with their own legal guns, fewer people would have been killed....how do we know this..? Because from past mass public shootings with armed civilians on site have lower death numbers...

Also...do you realize there were 6 off duty police officers in that bar at the time of the Attack? All they could do was help people escape since they were not allowed to carry their guns with them into the bar when they were off duty.....that is another reason so many died...

The gun free zone status allowed more people to be killed...

Deflecting still. Yes, there are lots of ways to meet your maker.

You make erroneous assumptions. I have three long guns, including a tube-fed .22 semi-automatic. I favor banning concealed weapons, handguns, and high-powered rifles with high-capacity magazines. That covers most of the mass murders, and leaves me with what I need.

Wrong....

While you sit there feeling superior....Americans use their legal guns, rifles and pistols, 1.1 million times a year to stop violent criminals from committing rape, robbery and murder...and even in our worst year for mass shootings so far, 2017, the total number murdered for the whole year was 117 people.....an outlier....300 people are killed every year falling off ladders...

Nothing you posted is rational.

How does banning concealed weapons stop mass shootings? Since the shooter doesn't care about that law?

Handguns? Really, considering they are the best tool for self defense?

High powered rifles....like what? The AR-15 is not a "high powered" rifle by any stretch of the imaginatio.

You are not a bright human being.

 

[2aguy]

You fucks won't address it, so let me ask again:

Why should I, an innocent American citizen, be punished, and have my constitutional right to defend my life and family removed, due to the actions of a criminal murderer?

^^^ This is the kind of whining that led me to finally say "FUCK THE SECOND AMENDMENT"

She was absolutely right. Self-defense is a basic human right. If you want to strip law-abiding people of that right, then you are no better than the criminals who kill others.

Okay. The whole idea is that with many less guns in the country, less will end up in the hands of criminals. Most of the guns confiscated in crimes were obtained illegally. Less guns, less will be available to steal or sell illegally on the street.

and that doesn't work...it hasn't worked anywhere .... criminals get the guns they need to commit crimes..the only people who will obey those laws are the law abiding people who will now be the prey of those gun armed criminals....

 

[PoliticalChic]

If your neighbor had an active case of Ebola Fever, would you want them removed from society? Keep your ridiculous Nazi comparisons to yourself.

---------------------------- ebola can be proven , mental illness can not be proven . Some people on this board could be accused of mental illness because of their political point of view i suppose Hunarcy .

And mental illness can be proven by the irrational ravings of the mentally ill. And, of course, by the dead bodies left in their wake. Honestly, I would rather err on the side of caution than mop up the aftermath of a shooting like happened in California.

--------------------------------------- i think that rational or irrational are simply OPINIONS until laws are broken Hunarcy

Sorry that you think that way. You, and people who think like you, are the problem. Your ilk EMPTIED the asylums back in the 70's, turning thousands out and creating the homeless problem we have today, where the mentally ill are reduced to screaming at lamp posts instead of getting the help they needed. And, you insist on having the mentally ill live amongst us and shoot us because you seem unwilling to allow them to get the help they need.

Wrong...left wing social activists also pushed to clear out the mental hospitals.... mentally ill people apparently have the Right to be on the street without help..that is what they wanted, not us.

".....left wing social activists also pushed to clear out the mental hospitals."

Let me point out that it was a Democrat initiative.


It was Democrat JFK's plan
Carter continued it.
The plan was a failure....so Reagan turned it over to the states.



1963

President John F. Kennedy signs the Community Mental Health Act to provide federal funding for the construction of community-based preventive care and treatment facilities. Between the Vietnam War and an economic crisis, the program was never adequately funded.

1980

President Jimmy Carter signs the Mental Health Systems Act, which aims to restructure the community mental-health-center program and improve services for people with chronic mental illness.


1981

Under President Ronald Reagan, the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act repeals Carter’s community health legislation and establishes block grants for the states, ending the federal government’s role in providing services to the mentally ill. Federal mental-health spending decreases by 30 percent.

TIMELINE: Deinstitutionalization And Its Consequences






Really interesting reason why it was important to Kennedy.

 

[pismoe]

No, it's fucking crazy. Tell me which mass murder was a psyop to advance gun control.

Do you own research. Check "Sandy Hook" & "Infowars". So there!

It proves there's no Sanity Clause.

It really isn't funny at all.

From research demonstrating that anyone owning a gun is far more likely to be killed by that gun than using it to defend themselves, to the ludicrous notion that fat couch-potatos with a gun will take down the overbearing Federal Government running amuck, the U.S. Army, the FBI, the various National Guards, and local law enforcement, it all demonstrates that some "think" lunacy is invincible. And, by the looks of it, their numbers are exploding.

As I said, it isn't funny at all.

----------------------------------- yeah , same could be said for some of the groups overseas that have been fighting the USA eh OldEuro .

 

[2aguy]

There is another thread starting in Health & Lifestyle about the role antidepressants and other drugs may be playing in this suicidal/homicidal increase in violence.
Although it is easy to say "yes, they were mentally ill so of course they were on meds," I don't think we should dismiss the idea out of hand without taking a serious look at it. "Cutting edge" medical treatments over the years have been pretty wild. Like mercury to cure syphilis and bleeding patients to cure whatever ailed them. Electric shock treatments for depression were pretty rough, too, although they did seem to work for awhile.

So there's nothing wrong with taking a look see at what is happening. Think of what the doctor's advice was fifty years ago and compare it to today on any number of issues. Their ideas and treatments are always changing.

All that said, for the most part, I believe antidepressants are successful in helping most patients with garden variety depression. We still have a lot to learn, but let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater, either.

Oh that's fucking rich while you advocate to leave me defenseless to fucking protect myself and my family with the only equalizer for a woman my size...

I've already said that nixing the 2nd doesn't mean taking away everyone's guns. It should be a privilege, which I'm sure you would earn. I don't think taking away all medications for the mentally ill is a good idea, if that's what you're saying.

So... not being raped, robbed an murdered is a privilege? Really?

 

[2aguy]

If the pillhead didn't have a gun, how many people would he have shot?

He could have used a truck and killed even more people.....the muslim terrorist in Nice, France used a rental Truck and murdered 86 people, not 12, and injured 450, not 18, in 5 minutes of driving.......

It isn't the tool...it is the target.

He could have driven through the bar's doors? Neat trick.

Why do you idiots on the anti gun side always pretend to be this stupid...or are you really this stupid?

 

[pismoe]

and been doing that fighting for over 16 years OldEuro !!!

 

[2aguy]

Two things for sure:
1) after Sandy Hook where little children were cut to pieces by gun fire, this country will do NOTHING about gun violence
2) crazy gun nuts will sell fear of having their phallic symbols taken away and cry "false flag"

1) no, you guys don't want to do anything to stop the shootings...as you keep showing by focusing on banning guns, and keeping the gun free zones that allow the killings to happen. The reason? You need dead children.....they are your best tool to push gun control.

2) You anti gun people.....it is obvious you have a psycho-sexual problem, and that it manifests itself in a sexual fixation of firearms...you need to get help.

 

[2aguy]

I addressed your false perception about the uselessness of the 2nd Amendment.

Perhaps you need to revisit it? It was by the authority on world history, by that guy, Carroll Quigley, that is telling you the truth behind the corporate media conditioning you to the reason why you really want to get rid of it?

Did you watch that video? Breaking News - 12 Dead in Mass Shooting at So.Cal Bar

Minute 8:00, remember? You never addressed it. Why not? That is the authority on world history, he told us, remember, crucial to a nation's liberty?

Who are you to dispute that? Some professor at Harvard now?

I tried watching it, Mr. Beale, but I listened to quite a bit of it and did not see that it was addressing the second amendment. I don't agree with how you view the world's affairs. Sorry.

Why do you want to give up your right to self defense? Have you bothered to study the history of this issue? If you had, you would know what a terrible idea this is.

Well, I appreciate your approach, gipper. I made the choice early in my life not to protect myself with a firearm and I have never changed my mind. I was not aware that a lot of other countries had ever had an automatic right to own guns emblazoned in their Constitution. In retrospect, I think THAT may have been a terrible idea. Certainly, the resistance to restricting ownership to responsible and stable people has been a terrible idea and if people don't start compromising on this, I think the threat of the 2nd going away is going to become more real.
My position on guns has always been radical and I have no hope whatsoever of ever seeing my country agree with me.

As long as it is YOUR choice, that's fine. But, when you begin to impose your choice on everyone else because you don't like their choice, you create a problem.

As for "resistance to restricting ownership to responsible and stable people", I do not know anyone who feels that way. However, for the past 50 years, we have been promised that if we just "give up this one right", the world will become safer, which hasn't happened...in fact, things are worse. As a result, those who do see a need to own a firearm feel imposed on and don't want to give up any more of their rights.

Well put. There is great resistance among gun owners to give up their "right" to a gun, even if it means refusing to even allow more comprehensive and complete background checks and ERPO laws nationally that would help get guns out of the hands of those having a mental health crisis.
I have had enough people argue against those in these threads over the past couple of years to assure you the resistance to restricting ownership to responsible and stable people is very real. They do see it as an imposition on their freedom and their rights, you are right. I understand that. To me, it is simply about limiting access to firearms to those who can demonstrate they are safe and responsible with them. We have a long way to go.

You can't show how a universal background check would stop criminals from getting guns or mass shooters from getting guns.

A universal background check would not have stopped this shooter, he bought his gun legally, therefore he could have bought a gun from a private seller legally and passed the background check.

The only reason the leaders of the anti gun movement want universal background checks, since they do nothing at all to stop criminals or mass shooters, is to be able to demand universal gun registration, which they need for when they have the political power to ban and confiscate guns.

 

[2aguy]

No, it's fucking crazy. Tell me which mass murder was a psyop to advance gun control.

Do you own research. Check "Sandy Hook" & "Infowars". So there!

It proves there's no Sanity Clause.

It really isn't funny at all.

From research demonstrating that anyone owning a gun is far more likely to be killed by that gun than using it to defend themselves, to the ludicrous notion that fat couch-potatos with a gun will take down the overbearing Federal Government running amuck, the U.S. Army, the FBI, the various National Guards, and local law enforcement, it all demonstrates that some "think" lunacy is invincible. And, by the looks of it, their numbers are exploding.

As I said, it isn't funny at all.

that research is wrong.....we have shown over and over that that research was created with bias.....the researchers focused on homes where the people in the home had histories of crime, alcoholism and drug addiction....they did not balance their sample with normal gun owners.

 

[pismoe]

You fucks won't address it, so let me ask again:

Why should I, an innocent American citizen, be punished, and have my constitutional right to defend my life and family removed, due to the actions of a criminal murderer?

^^^ This is the kind of whining that led me to finally say "FUCK THE SECOND AMENDMENT"

Yea, of course my life is forfeit because I don't believe that guns are simple tools and it's the murderers themselves that are the problem.

You twatwaffles whine all day about empathy for victims, but you literally don't have a single scrap of it that's real.

I already said I don't want you disarmed unless you're irresponsible. Are you having a hard time reading today or are you telling me you're irresponsible or a lunatic?

You fucks won't address it, so let me ask again:

Why should I, an innocent American citizen, be punished, and have my constitutional right to defend my life and family removed, due to the actions of a criminal murderer?

^^^ This is the kind of whining that led me to finally say "FUCK THE SECOND AMENDMENT"

She was absolutely right. Self-defense is a basic human right. If you want to strip law-abiding people of that right, then you are no better than the criminals who kill others.

Okay. The whole idea is that with many less guns in the country, less will end up in the hands of criminals. Most of the guns confiscated in crimes were obtained illegally. Less guns, less will be available to steal or sell illegally on the street.

-------------------------------------------- guns would be imported from Russia and other places for a black market . Little old island nation of 'england' can't stop illegal guns from getting in . And the USA can't stop illegal drugs from flooding the USA OldLady .

 

[2aguy]

You fucks won't address it, so let me ask again:

Why should I, an innocent American citizen, be punished, and have my constitutional right to defend my life and family removed, due to the actions of a criminal murderer?

^^^ This is the kind of whining that led me to finally say "FUCK THE SECOND AMENDMENT"

Yea, of course my life is forfeit because I don't believe that guns are simple tools and it's the murderers themselves that are the problem.

You twatwaffles whine all day about empathy for victims, but you literally don't have a single scrap of it that's real.

I already said I don't want you disarmed unless you're irresponsible. Are you having a hard time reading today or are you telling me you're irresponsible or a lunatic?

You fucks won't address it, so let me ask again:

Why should I, an innocent American citizen, be punished, and have my constitutional right to defend my life and family removed, due to the actions of a criminal murderer?

^^^ This is the kind of whining that led me to finally say "FUCK THE SECOND AMENDMENT"

She was absolutely right. Self-defense is a basic human right. If you want to strip law-abiding people of that right, then you are no better than the criminals who kill others.

Okay. The whole idea is that with many less guns in the country, less will end up in the hands of criminals. Most of the guns confiscated in crimes were obtained illegally. Less guns, less will be available to steal or sell illegally on the street.

-------------------------------------------- guns would be imported from Russia and other places for a black marker . Little old island nation of 'england' can't stop illegal guns from getting in . And the USA can't stop illegal drugs from flooding the USA OldLady .

The Mexican drug cartels are already building gun factories on the border....

 

[buttercup]

1) no, you guys don't want to do anything to stop the shootings... The reason? You need dead children.....they are your best tool to push gun control.

Exactly!!!


FINALLY, someone is stating the truth, ugly as it may be.

 

[pismoe]

You fucks won't address it, so let me ask again:

Why should I, an innocent American citizen, be punished, and have my constitutional right to defend my life and family removed, due to the actions of a criminal murderer?

^^^ This is the kind of whining that led me to finally say "FUCK THE SECOND AMENDMENT"

Yea, of course my life is forfeit because I don't believe that guns are simple tools and it's the murderers themselves that are the problem.

You twatwaffles whine all day about empathy for victims, but you literally don't have a single scrap of it that's real.

I already said I don't want you disarmed unless you're irresponsible. Are you having a hard time reading today or are you telling me you're irresponsible or a lunatic?

-------------------------------------- the people that will decide if a person is ALLOWED to own a government approved type of gun will be OldLADY and her type of lefty ilk .