A better way to do healthcare

[BobPlumb]

Originally Posted by BobPlumb

We had to pass the bill to find out what was in the bill (now it's law).

More fail.

There was a phony bill that originated from a wingnut in Tulsa, Oklahoma. That phony bill, with all of its obvious errors, was believed to be the real bill by people too stupid to know how real bills are written.

Nancy Pelosi was informing the idiots that until the REAL bill was passed it, like every other bill, would not be available for public viewing.

Negged for trying to revive a long-debunked wingnut lie.

That is so utterly stupid. You must have massive brain damage from when Paul Ryan pushed you off that cliff.

[ame=http://youtu.be/OGnE83A1Z4U]Granny Off the Cliff - YouTube[/ame]

 

[MeBelle]

Free market principles work. I've read this whole thing and it sounds like a much better way for Americans to get good quality affordable health coverage.

Free market health care was unaffordable for tens of millions, leaving them with no coverage. Shitty policies and surprise cancellations drove millions into bankruptcy.

Your history rewrite is a failure.

Millions....

Biggest cause of personal bankruptcy: Medical bills - TODAY.com

Got it...

Now how about that family of four in California making $96k a year?

Having to pay out of pocket >$23k a year in premiums and meeting deductibles on the 'affordable' silver plan, before health insurance benefits kick in, how long will this family be able to sustain itself?

 

[MeBelle]

Originally Posted by BobPlumb

We had to pass the bill to find out what was in the bill (now it's law).

More fail.

There was a phony bill that originated from a wingnut in Tulsa, Oklahoma. That phony bill, with all of its obvious errors, was believed to be the real bill by people too stupid to know how real bills are written.

Nancy Pelosi was informing the idiots that until the REAL bill was passed it, like every other bill, would not be available for public viewing.

Negged for trying to revive a long-debunked wingnut lie.

What phony bill?

 

[BobPlumb]

Originally Posted by BobPlumb

We had to pass the bill to find out what was in the bill (now it's law).

More fail.

There was a phony bill that originated from a wingnut in Tulsa, Oklahoma. That phony bill, with all of its obvious errors, was believed to be the real bill by people too stupid to know how real bills are written.

Nancy Pelosi was informing the idiots that until the REAL bill was passed it, like every other bill, would not be available for public viewing.

Negged for trying to revive a long-debunked wingnut lie.

What phony bill?

Here is what NP said about her " we have to pass the bill to find out what is in it " comment.
[ame=http://youtu.be/0LywMkNQ1q4]NBC's Gregory Confronts Pelosi With 'We Have to Pass the Bill to Find Out What's In It' Clip - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Votto]

It looks good because you don't see the details. It appears to me that the plan would require massive subsidies to the states. At the federal level, the most significant legislation would benefit upper middle class wealthy tax players. Tax incentive to people that aren't paying taxes now does not reduce their cost of insurance.

A plan such as this won't replace Obamacare because it assumes it has not been implemented. Replacing Obamacare would be far more difficult than implementing it.

However, several of the proposals are worth considering.

"It looks good because you don't see the details." Now that's a discription of liberals and Obamacare. We had to pass the bill to find out what was in the bill (now it's law). The bill was passed and made law based on a bunch of talking points such as "If you like your plan you can keep your plan". "If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor". It will bend the cost curve by $2500 per family.

Why start looking at details now? 7 million have signed up. Why bother to know how many of those have paid the bill yet. Why bother to determine how many of those that had insurance they were happy with before Obamacare kicked in. Why bother to determine how many would have qualified for Medicaid even without Obamacare. Details.....who cares about stinking details?

Republicans aren't going to repeal and replace Obamacare with their own plan even if they get control of government, because they would have to take the blame for all the problems their reforms created, and many problems they didn't, just as has happened to liberals with Obamacare. Although Obamacare will improve the accessibility to healthcare; political it was a mistake, one Republicans aren't going to repeat.

And if put in power, the GOP will continue to raise the debt ceiling, pass more entitlements, and ignore illegal immigration.

Tell us something we don't know.

 

[Flopper]

Nope. They screw the pooch right out of the gate. There should be either no tax exemptions related to health care costs, or all of them should be exempt. Incentives targeted at increasing insurance enrollment are the problem, not the solution.

Tax incentives are the heart of the plan. If there're going use taxes as an incentive to buy insurance, they should have proposed tax credits not deductions.

The irony is, extending the tax deduction to everyone is the exact same thing as the individual mandate. And they're going to pretend like it isn't.

An added tax deduction does nothing to make health insurance more affordable for the poor or lower income workers because most don't itemize and have little or no tax liability.

Upper income works benefit most from an added tax deduction however they would need the least help paying their insurance premiums. A credit to be used to defray premium costs would make more sense than a deduction.

 

[dblack]

Tax incentives are the heart of the plan. If there're going use taxes as an incentive to buy insurance, they should have proposed tax credits not deductions.

The irony is, extending the tax deduction to everyone is the exact same thing as the individual mandate. And they're going to pretend like it isn't.

An added tax deduction does nothing to make health insurance more affordable for the poor or lower income workers because most don't itemize and have little or no tax liability.

Upper income works benefit most from an added tax deduction however they would need the least help paying their insurance premiums. A credit to be used to defray premium costs would make more sense than a deduction.

Anything to pipe more public dollars into the insurance industry coffers.

 

[Flopper]

"It looks good because you don't see the details." Now that's a discription of liberals and Obamacare. We had to pass the bill to find out what was in the bill (now it's law). The bill was passed and made law based on a bunch of talking points such as "If you like your plan you can keep your plan". "If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor". It will bend the cost curve by $2500 per family.

Why start looking at details now? 7 million have signed up. Why bother to know how many of those have paid the bill yet. Why bother to determine how many of those that had insurance they were happy with before Obamacare kicked in. Why bother to determine how many would have qualified for Medicaid even without Obamacare. Details.....who cares about stinking details?

Republicans aren't going to repeal and replace Obamacare with their own plan even if they get control of government, because they would have to take the blame for all the problems their reforms created, and many problems they didn't, just as has happened to liberals with Obamacare. Although Obamacare will improve the accessibility to healthcare; political it was a mistake, one Republicans aren't going to repeat.

And if put in power, the GOP will continue to raise the debt ceiling, pass more entitlements, and ignore illegal immigration.

Tell us something we don't know.

The GOP is not going to deal with healthcare, immigration, or any other major issue that might upset voters.

Thinking that Republicans would repeal Obamacare and replace it with another healthcare reform bill is pretty silly. To do so would mean Republicans would be blamed with all the insuring problems just the way the Democrats were. No, the most likely thing to happen if Republican get a chance would be modifying Obamacare to add a tax deduction which would help defray premium costs for upper income earners, pump more money into Medicare that Obamacare cut, tort reform which would have a minimal impact for most people, and a dozen fixes which are covered now by executive order. Republicans could then claim they saved American healthcare and move on, a tactic not new to Republicans or Democrats.

 

[Greenbeard]

Now how about that family of four in California making $96k a year?

Having to pay out of pocket >$23k a year in premiums and meeting deductibles on the 'affordable' silver plan, before health insurance benefits kick in, how long will this family be able to sustain itself?

Not sure how you figure anyone has to pay $23,000 before benefits kick in. Covered California has a standard benefit design in which silver plans have a $2,000 deductible/per family member. After which insurance is paying 80% or more of the tab.

 

[Grandma]

Originally Posted by BobPlumb

We had to pass the bill to find out what was in the bill (now it's law).

More fail.

There was a phony bill that originated from a wingnut in Tulsa, Oklahoma. That phony bill, with all of its obvious errors, was believed to be the real bill by people too stupid to know how real bills are written.

Nancy Pelosi was informing the idiots that until the REAL bill was passed it, like every other bill, would not be available for public viewing.

Negged for trying to revive a long-debunked wingnut lie.

That is so utterly stupid. You must have massive brain damage from when Paul Ryan pushed you off that cliff.

[ame=http://youtu.be/OGnE83A1Z4U]Granny Off the Cliff - YouTube[/ame]

The only stupid here are people still trying to sell the lie that it's Pelosi's fault.

Here, let me help you with this: If you deal in facts, voters trust you more. If you're caught in lie after lie after lie, people know you're a liar and they'll never trust you or anyone you endorse.

 

[MeBelle]

Now how about that family of four in California making $96k a year?

Having to pay out of pocket >$23k a year in premiums and meeting deductibles on the 'affordable' silver plan, before health insurance benefits kick in, how long will this family be able to sustain itself?

Not sure how you figure anyone has to pay $23,000 before benefits kick in. Covered California has a standard benefit design in which silver plans have a $2,000 deductible/per family member. After which insurance is paying 80% or more of the tab.

When you leave out the word premiums. (VERY CRUCIAL btw)

and

When "Copays in Black are Not Subject to any Deductible."

Primary Care Visit Copay $45
Specialty Care Visit Copay $65
Urgent Care Visit Copay $90
Generic Medication Copay $19
Lab Testing Copay $45
X-Ray Copay $65

 

[Greenbeard]

Now how about that family of four in California making $96k a year?

Having to pay out of pocket >$23k a year in premiums and meeting deductibles on the 'affordable' silver plan, before health insurance benefits kick in, how long will this family be able to sustain itself?

Not sure how you figure anyone has to pay $23,000 before benefits kick in. Covered California has a standard benefit design in which silver plans have a $2,000 deductible/per family member. After which insurance is paying 80% or more of the tab.

When you leave out the word premiums. (VERY CRUCIAL btw)

and

When "Copays in Black are Not Subject to any Deductible."

Primary Care Visit Copay $45
Specialty Care Visit Copay $65
Urgent Care Visit Copay $90
Generic Medication Copay $19
Lab Testing Copay $45
X-Ray Copay $65

You certainly don't have to have paid 12 months of premiums before you can access benefits. So I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

 

[billyerock1991]

No, it isn't. But then, neither is this one.

are you saying Obama care is a government plan ???

Yes.

obama care has nothing to do with government selling you insurance ... all insurance bought is bought from private companies ... there aren't any government health care plan ... I challenge you to show us one government run health care plan that is paid for by the consumer ... I dare you to show us one ... by your statement alone show us all how ignorant you really are ...

 

[billyerock1991]

Nope. They screw the pooch right out of the gate. There should be either no tax exemptions related to health care costs, or all of them should be exempt. Incentives targeted at increasing insurance enrollment are the problem, not the solution.

Tax incentives are the heart of the plan. If there're going use taxes as an incentive to buy insurance, they should have proposed tax credits not deductions.

The irony is, extending the tax deduction to everyone is the exact same thing as the individual mandate. And they're going to pretend like it isn't.

you are stupid... not ignorant ... just plain stupid ...

 

[billyerock1991]

More fail.

There was a phony bill that originated from a wingnut in Tulsa, Oklahoma. That phony bill, with all of its obvious errors, was believed to be the real bill by people too stupid to know how real bills are written.

Nancy Pelosi was informing the idiots that until the REAL bill was passed it, like every other bill, would not be available for public viewing.

Negged for trying to revive a long-debunked wingnut lie.

What phony bill?

Here is what NP said about her " we have to pass the bill to find out what is in it " comment.

what pelosie was saying here is what the people will see whats in the bill ... if your understanding is what the congress will see is in the biil, you would be wrong in that assumption... she was clearly talking about the American citizen not the congress you idiot ...

 

[JakeStarkey]

(1) There is no free market.

(2) The health care industry, including insurance and providers, bribe the lawmakers while they extort the businesses for preference.

 

[dblack]

(1) There is no free market.

(2) The health care industry, including insurance and providers, bribe the lawmakers while they extort the businesses for preference.

Yep. Not often I agree with you, Jake, but you've nailed it. Let's get to correcting these problems!

 

[Flopper]

(1) There is no free market.

(2) The health care industry, including insurance and providers, bribe the lawmakers while they extort the businesses for preference.

Yep. Not often I agree with you, Jake, but you've nailed it. Let's get to correcting these problems!

To have a real free market in healthcare, you would have to deregulate and take government totally out of the picture, Medicare, Medicaid, FDA, EMTALA, etc. The amount of healthcare services available to you would depend on your ability to pay. There's no way that you can sell that to the public.

 

[Flopper]

(1) There is no free market.

(2) The health care industry, including insurance and providers, bribe the lawmakers while they extort the businesses for preference.

Yep. Not often I agree with you, Jake, but you've nailed it. Let's get to correcting these problems!

To have a real free market in healthcare, you would have to deregulate and take government out of the picture, Medicare, Medicaid, FDA, EMTALA, etc. The amount of healthcare services available to you would depend on your ability to pay. There's no way that you can sell that to the public.

 

[dblack]

(1) There is no free market.

(2) The health care industry, including insurance and providers, bribe the lawmakers while they extort the businesses for preference.

Yep. Not often I agree with you, Jake, but you've nailed it. Let's get to correcting these problems!

To have a real free market in healthcare, you would have to deregulate and take government out of the picture, Medicare, Medicaid, FDA, EMTALA, etc. The amount of healthcare services available to you would depend on your ability to pay. There's no way that you can sell that to the public.

I dunno. Freedom is more popular with the public, than with the powers that be.