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I am offering a verse that Paul wrote to the Romans, which included people who believed in many Gods--or no God. He noted that God's ways are written on our hearts, meaning within us. It is part of who we are as humans. There is no need for you to agree with Paul. In fact, I "insist" you make up your own mind.You insist there is a message from your gods written on my heart.
Why predict? Seek and find.What reasonable conclusions about gods can we predict using facts, evidence, prior examples and predicted outcome relative to past history when it applies to supernatural agents?
Seek and find what?Why predict? Seek and find.
Yeah how many people here are fluent in ancient Hebrew and Aramaic?A deeper dive into English and Modern Western culture? If you wish to read the Bible critically, learn the original languages--or at least read commentaries of those who were working off the original languages.
No he's thinking of his own salvation and doing what he is told he as to do to get it.An Evangelical Christian has incentive to proselytize because he's thinking of your eternal situation. The atheist has no such incentive, so why the hard-core evangelizing from them? What do they gain?
The claim that someone named Paul wrote ''God's ways are written on our hearts'' is presumed to be true and unassailable? Other than someone having a predisposition or compelling need to believe that, why should anyone but a Christian believer accept it as true?I am offering a verse that Paul wrote to the Romans, which included people who believed in many Gods--or no God. He noted that God's ways are written on our hearts, meaning within us. It is part of who we are as humans. There is no need for you to agree with Paul. In fact, I "insist" you make up your own mind.
Your bias shows best with that statement. For example, is it your position that we all believe that a donkey talked? That a flood covered the entire planet?
For thousands of years government (power) and religion were intertwined. Ever wonder why religion got the blame for the sword? Perhaps look at the political aspects of wars and conflicts.
It's perfectly okay, but it would be nice if they were honest about their intentions and acknowledge that they have a problem with people holding beliefs they don't like. You KNOW why Evangelical Christians knock on your door, they're concerned for your eternal situation, but there's no such incentive for an atheist to, as the OP has stated, hold thousands of debates on the subject. Again, what does the atheist gain?No he's thinking of his own salvation and doing what he is told he as to do to get it.
And like I said I don;t know anyone who has had an ashiest knock on his door to try to convince them to be atheists.
Why is it ok for religious people to tell their views to people but it's not OK for atheists?
Life is of greatest value, whether it was lived before any religion, before science, before a democratic government. Whether a person has a religion or no religion, human life has meaning/value. Period. Of course that is independent of belief in God! Who is arguing that it is not?Most of humanity has come and gone before the invention of the Christian gods. Would anyone suggest all those lives were lessened in either value or meaning because they came and went before Christianity? If not, then pretty clearly human existence and the value / meaning of that existence is independent of your gods and everyone else's gods.
We were speaking of God. Seek and find God. If you want. If you don't want, that is fine, too.Seek and find what?
No. I know/depend on those who are. I also look for independent translations. I've been doing this for years, decades now. Why? Because in places, the modern English version of the Bible--when the English is taken literally--to me seemed like a jumble that made little sense. I highly recommend the original languages and the study of Biblical cultures and histories.Yeah how many people here are fluent in ancient Hebrew and Aramaic?
Are you?
What we know is that those words are attributed to Paul. Whether you believe that or not is immaterial. Do those words have a point? If your answer is, "No" then move on.The claim that someone named Paul wrote ''God's ways are written on our hearts''
Questioning and challenging can be done sitting down. For people who are more interested in action, I recommend seeking. You will find.'Seek and find' is better written as ''question and challenge''. Oddly, religions don't want questioning and challenges, they want unquestioning conformance and ''belief''.
Even if you believe the Bible, there is nothing that "proves" or provides evidence that it is the Word of God. If you are looking for proof, you will not find it. That is like searching for dinosaurs in a beehive.Why don't we cut right to the quick and say that if you don't already believe the bible is the "word of a god" there is nothing in the bible that proves that it is.
The Bible is clear about "belief" and consequences for the heathen. And, according to the Bible, the gods are very quick to ruthlessly slaughter masses of people on a whim - being a disappointment to them. The slaughters committed by the Christian gods are, you know, biblical.Life is of greatest value, whether it was lived before any religion, before science, before a democratic government. Whether a person has a religion or no religion, human life has meaning/value. Period. Of course that is independent of belief in God! Who is arguing that it is not?
Look, my husband chose to live independently of God, and has always said even if there were undeniable proof of God he would still want to live independently of him. He wants to live this life knowing the only person he has ever depended upon is himself and his choices.
I believe God honors such personal decisions. Do you? Or do you believe God is some tyrant ready to strike people down at whim?
From someone who has studied myths, fables, folklore, etc., if it is "plagiarism" someone did a terrible job at plagiarizing. Bet we can find most schools of thought in the Bible, just as we can find most schools of thought in fables, myths, and folklore. Humanity shares common experiences, so I find it astonishing you seem to expect the Bible to be something isolated and unrepeated.If a person could read the bible with absolutely no exposure to Judaism, Christianity or any other major religion then I don't think they would be able to take it as the word of some god but rather a collection of fables and a lot of plagiarism from other schools of thought
"the Bible is testimony from those who have either experienced or believed in God"Even if you believe the Bible, there is nothing that "proves" or provides evidence that it is the Word of God. If you are looking for proof, you will not find it. That is like searching for dinosaurs in a beehive.
What we have in the Bible is testimony from those who have either experienced or believed in God. They wrote out a way of life, that can either be followed or discarded. All that is gold does not glitter, and the Bible (for some) contains golden threads that guide us in our choices, decisions and paths through life.
The version of "God kills babies and floods a planet" offers no insights or instructions to anyone. It is useless, it is worthless. It is like a gold miner returning to town with a wheelbarrow of dirt, leaving the gold behind.
And here is the ultimate circle back to the English/Modern Western Culture literally interpreting the Bible. I repeat: It pays to do the research on the history/culture/intent of the original author(s) and what they wished to teach their original audience. That is who they were speaking to...not you.The Bible is clear about "belief" and consequences for the heathen. And, according to the Bible, the gods are very quick to ruthlessly slaughter masses of people on a whim - being a disappointment to them. The slaughters committed by the Christian gods are, you know, biblical.
In part. I seek to gain an acknowledgement that we can live our es free from ancient fears and superstitions, that we are the ones responsible for how we live our lives and also, to understand the dangers in allowing religious extremists to force fundamentalist Christianity into the school system.Questioning and challenging can be done sitting down. For people who are more interested in action, I recommend seeking. You will find.
What is your purpose for questioning and challenging? What do you seek to gain from it?
