A Blow to the Muslim Brotherhood

[Connery]

I do not like what the military did there but what does a country do when the elected officials refuse to follow their own constitution?

This is the lynch of what democratic values are based. Democracy is a two way street, not the appointment of what has earmarks of an autocratic rule but a representative system where people's wishes and rights are taken into account and valued.

 

[Gadawg73]

Israel hated the fact that the Muslim Brotherhood was the political party which won the election 1 year ago.

And was working furiously behind the scenes to destabilize the elected government and forment a military coup.

And with the help of a 1.5 billion dollar bribe from the U.S. government to the military.

The budding Egyptian democracy was squished like a bug.

Wouldn't you hate it if someone wanted to wipe your country off the map?
Are you seriously claiming Israel has any influence over the Egyptian military?
Sunni, that is absurd.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I am impressed.

I was NOT impressed when they voted in a theocracy. But there have been a lot of human rights issues and for now, unless there is some reason to change my mind, I salute the people of Egypt.

We can envy them the smallness of their country which allows such direct participation in government.

Yeah, the best thing coming out of Egypt this week is the apparent fear that the military has for the masses.

Ass-u-me-ing a free society is the goal, in all cases where they conflict, reasonable Civil Law MUST trump Religious Law.

 

[Kondor3]

"...reasonable Civil Law MUST trump Religious Law."

Exactly.

Or, at least, that's the Western ideal to which the rest of the world is trying to catch-up.

But, what happens when your Constitution is thrown in the garbage-bin and another is rammed down your throat at the speed of light, stacking the deck to keep the newly-elected Party in power - thereby rendering Civil Law as UNreasonable?

Our own Founding Fathers had something to say about the Right of Revolution...

"...whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness..."

It would appear that the People of Egypt have chosen to "abolish it".

Perhaps, in their gut, at a visceral level, the People of Egypt understand the spirit behind those words even better than many of their American counterparts.

 

[Connery]

I am impressed.

I was NOT impressed when they voted in a theocracy. But there have been a lot of human rights issues and for now, unless there is some reason to change my mind, I salute the people of Egypt.

We can envy them the smallness of their country which allows such direct participation in government.

Yeah, the best thing coming out of Egypt this week is the apparent fear that the military has for the masses.

Ass-u-me-ing a free society is the goal, in all cases where they conflict, reasonable Civil Law MUST trump Religious Law.

Secular law and a consistent message speaking of fairness for all. There has been a broken trust regarding the entire nation and the next person to be elected will have a very hard and long battle in winning back the trust of the Egyptian people.

 

[Sunni Man]

Make no mistake about it.

Israel's mossad and the CIA are behind the unrest and ousting of Pres. Morsi.

It's zionist rulers hated the idea of the Muslim Brotherhood being in control of Egypt.

So Israel paid off the millions of Egyptians protesting in the streets?

Nope, just the leaders and organizers of the protest were paid off to stage the anti-democracy event and oust the legitimate President.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I do not like what the military did there but what does a country do when the elected officials refuse to follow their own constitution?

This is the lynch of what democratic values are based. Democracy is a two way street, not the appointment of what has earmarks of an autocratic rule but a representative system where people's wishes and rights are taken into account and valued.

This is a sentiment that our own democracy could do a better job of seeking out. Between the gridlock, the gerrymandered districts, and the corruption in politics here, I wonder sometimes....

 

[Gadawg73]

Make no mistake about it.

Israel's mossad and the CIA are behind the unrest and ousting of Pres. Morsi.

It's zionist rulers hated the idea of the Muslim Brotherhood being in control of Egypt.

So Israel paid off the millions of Egyptians protesting in the streets?

Nope, just the leaders and organizers of the protest were paid off to stage the anti-democracy event and oust the legitimate President.

22 million signatures all paid off?
You know the Egyptians were lied to.
I was optimistic when he was elected.
People value freedom more than their religious beliefs Sunni. You have the protections of the US Constitution here.
How come you do not support those same protections for other Muslims in Egypt?
How come you do not stand up for them and their rights?

 

[AVG-JOE]

Make no mistake about it.

Israel's mossad and the CIA are behind the unrest and ousting of Pres. Morsi.

It's zionist rulers hated the idea of the Muslim Brotherhood being in control of Egypt.

So Israel paid off the millions of Egyptians protesting in the streets?

Nope, just the leaders and organizers of the protest were paid off to stage the anti-democracy event and oust the legitimate President.

Would you feel the same if The Brotherhood was a Shiite organization?

 

[Sunni Man]

So Israel paid off the millions of Egyptians protesting in the streets?

Nope, just the leaders and organizers of the protest were paid off to stage the anti-democracy event and oust the legitimate President.

22 million signatures all paid off?

The alleged 22 million signatures was just a PR lie feed to the western media and has never been verified.

 

[Gadawg73]

Looks as if Egyptians want their rights protected under the law OVER AND ABOVE their religious beliefs.
THE LAW and only the law protects those rights.
And as I stated earlier I was optimistic when the MB took power. They have a history of charitable work for decades.
But the power went to their heads and they caved in to the religious hard core in their party.
And Egyptians do not want that.

 

[Connery]

I do not like what the military did there but what does a country do when the elected officials refuse to follow their own constitution?

This is the lynch of what democratic values are based. Democracy is a two way street, not the appointment of what has earmarks of an autocratic rule but a representative system where people's wishes and rights are taken into account and valued.

This is a sentiment that our own democracy could do a better job of seeking out. Between the gridlock, the gerrymandered districts, and the corruption in politics here, I wonder sometimes....

On it's face sure. However, based on my personal experience with the "system" I do know it works and like anything else worthwhile it takes hard work and persistence.

 

[Kondor3]

Make no mistake about it.

Israel's mossad and the CIA are behind the unrest and ousting of Pres. Morsi.

It's zionist rulers hated the idea of the Muslim Brotherhood being in control of Egypt.

So Israel paid off the millions of Egyptians protesting in the streets?

Nope, just the leaders and organizers of the protest were paid off to stage the anti-democracy event and oust the legitimate President.

Yes, you keep saying this, but, when pressed to produce either (a) solid evidence or (b) substantial and credible data and would lead a reasonable person to conclude that such is the case - you have produced nothing more than 'the CIA and Mossad have done such things in the past' - which, frankly, is insufficient to the day, and our purposes; thus rendering such observations as nothing more than unfounded personal opinion; consequently...

Thank you for your expression of Personal Opinion on the subject...

 

[AVG-JOE]

I am impressed.

I was NOT impressed when they voted in a theocracy. But there have been a lot of human rights issues and for now, unless there is some reason to change my mind, I salute the people of Egypt.

We can envy them the smallness of their country which allows such direct participation in government.

Yeah, the best thing coming out of Egypt this week is the apparent fear that the military has for the masses.

Ass-u-me-ing a free society is the goal, in all cases where they conflict, reasonable Civil Law MUST trump Religious Law.

Secular law and a consistent message speaking of fairness for all. There has been a broken trust regarding the entire nation and the next person to be elected will have a very hard and long battle in winning back the trust of the Egyptian people.

Ass-u-me-ing a reasonable constitution is voted on and accepted by at least two thirds of the people first, and ass-u-me-ing the military continues to back the masses during the process, Egypt will most likely look back on this with the same practicality that we now view the Articles of Confederation in light of our enduring Constitution. Just a mistake along the way, a mistake fully expected in a nation with such a single, dominating religion.

The best thing about religion in politics is that politics is the best way to highlight the sectarian differences in religions of the same name.

 

[Derideo_Te]

I am impressed.

I was NOT impressed when they voted in a theocracy. But there have been a lot of human rights issues and for now, unless there is some reason to change my mind, I salute the people of Egypt.

We can envy them the smallness of their country which allows such direct participation in government.

Yeah, the best thing coming out of Egypt this week is the apparent fear that the military has for the masses.

Ass-u-me-ing a free society is the goal, in all cases where they conflict, reasonable Civil Law MUST trump Religious Law.

How about the military was more afraid of the MB getting them involved in a civil war conflict similar to that of Syria? Alternatively the military might have been concerned that the MB was heading in the direction of another war with Israel.

The reality is that the Egyptian military is the 800 lb gorilla that has all of the power and that whomever "rules" the country only does so with the "consent" of the military.

 

[AVG-JOE]

This is the lynch of what democratic values are based. Democracy is a two way street, not the appointment of what has earmarks of an autocratic rule but a representative system where people's wishes and rights are taken into account and valued.

This is a sentiment that our own democracy could do a better job of seeking out. Between the gridlock, the gerrymandered districts, and the corruption in politics here, I wonder sometimes....

On it's face sure. However, based on my personal experience with the "system" I do know it works and like anything else worthwhile it takes hard work and persistence.

True. For all its faults, our system is still very much worth participating in.

Change comes from within.... and if it doesn't, we march on DC.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Israel and the CIA were sabotaging everything they could behind the scenes to destroy the MB

Obama recently gave the Egyptian military 1.5 billion in weapons and support.

Which was in reality a pay off to oust Morsi and kick out the MB from power.

I have to ask for some reasonable back up for that.

There is a certain amount of logic to Sunniman's allegation.

Israel would not be happy knowing that Egypt was now under the control of an organization with the sworn goal of wiping Israel off the map. Just recall how unhappy the US has been when it comes to communist influence in nations to the south. There has been undeniable attempts by the US to overthrow communist regimes in Latin American nations. Why would Israel be any different when it came to what it perceived as it's mortal enemy?

 

[Sunni Man]

Anyone who doubts the CIA / Mossad involvement in organizing and funding the protests in Egypt is very naive.

Everyone in the Middle East knows that whenever there is chaos, war, or any kind of political disruption.

Just scratch the surface a little and you will find Israel behind the event with the blessing of the U.S. government.

 

[Kondor3]

Anyone who doubts the CIA / Mossad involvement in organizing and funding the protests in Egypt is very naive...

And, I respectfully submit: anyone who takes such pronouncements at face-value without confirmation (or even simply reasonable supporting data in the case) is even more naive.

"...Everyone in the Middle East knows that whenever there is chaos, war, or any kind of political disruption... Just scratch the surface a little and you will find Israel behind the event with the blessing of the U.S. government."

Argumentum ad populum, unfortunately.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Israel and the CIA were sabotaging everything they could behind the scenes to destroy the MB

Obama recently gave the Egyptian military 1.5 billion in weapons and support.

Which was in reality a pay off to oust Morsi and kick out the MB from power.

I have to ask for some reasonable back up for that.

There is a certain amount of logic to Sunniman's allegation.

Israel would not be happy knowing that Egypt was now under the control of an organization with the sworn goal of wiping Israel off the map. Just recall how unhappy the US has been when it comes to communist influence in nations to the south. There has been undeniable attempts by the US to overthrow communist regimes in Latin American nations. Why would Israel be any different when it came to what it perceived as it's mortal enemy?

None of that matters. If the Muslim Brotherhood had been able to govern in a fair and secular fashion, there would have been no protests in the street and no change of regime needed or fomented.