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Only in Egypt is a military coup not a coup
For the first time in the history of the world, a coup is not a coup. The army take over, depose and imprison the democratically elected president, suspend the constitution, arrest the usual suspects, close down television stations and mass their armour in the streets of the capital. But the word coup does not and cannot cross the lips of the Blessed Barack Obama. Nor does the hopeless UN secretary general Ban Ki-moon dare to utter such an offensive word. Its not as if Obama doesnt know whats going on. Snipers in Cairo killed 15 Egyptians this week from a rooftop of the very university in which Obama made his reach-out speech to the Muslim world in 2009.
Is this reticence because millions of Egyptians demanded just such a coup they didnt call it that, of course and thus became the first massed people in the world to demand a coup prior to the actual coup taking place? Is it because Obama fears that to acknowledge its a coup would force the US to impose sanctions on the most important Arab nation at peace with Israel? Or because the men who staged the coup might forever lose their 1.5 billion subvention from the US rather than suffer a mere delay -- if they were told theyd actually carried out a coup.
And there is one salient fact about the events of the last 48 hours in Egypt. No one is happier no one more satisfied nor more conscious of the correctness of his own national struggle against Islamists and terrorists -- than Assad. The West has been wetting itself to destroy Assad but does absolutely nothing when the Egyptian army destroys its democratically-elected president for lining up with Assads armed Islamist opponents. The army called Morsis supporters terrorists and fools. Isnt that just what Bashar calls his enemies? No wonder Assad told us yesterday that no one should use religion to gain power. Hollow laughter here -- offstage, of course.
But this doesnt let Obama off the hook. Those Western leaders who are gently telling us that Egypt is still on the path to democracy, that this is an interim period like the interim Egyptian government concocted by the military and that millions of Egyptians support the coup that isnt a coup, have to remember that Morsi was indeed elected in a real, Western-approved election.
Israel, however, must be pleased. It knows a coup when it sees one and its now back playing its familiar role as the only democracy in the Middle East, and with the kind of neighbours it understands: military rulers. And if Egypts wealthy military king-makers are getting a nifty $1.5 billion dollars a year from Washington albeit postponed -- they are certainly not going to tamper with their countrys peace treaty with Israel, however unpopular it remains with the people for whom it supposedly staged the coup-that-wasnt.
When is a military coup not a military coup? When it happens in Egypt, apparently - Comment - Voices - The Independent
My understanding is the US has to find a way to not call it a coup, so they can keep giving Egypt aid, under American laws. I think we use that aid to seek to get whatever government is in power to do what we want them to do.
"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the
same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism,
it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and
to provide new Guards for their future security."
This trend is seen throughout the region as questions arise as to what caused this decline in support coupled with where is this movement headed now. This failed experiment leaves behind the legacy that sharia cannot coexist with democratic principals where people need to have freedoms but are thwarted by "the imposition of the Islamist views propagated by the Muslim Brotherhood."
I'm not so sure it's that definitive. Sharia is not a monolithic entity and the Islamist view of Sharia is not the only one. There are Islamic scholars working out how Sharia can fit into a modern and democratic society - that's the real experiment for those countries. There are also democratic countries where Sharia is part of the civil law but not the criminal or penal code.
The Islamists fail because they don't take into account their people and assume a victory is a victory for a fundamentalist religious agenda. What I hope is that the opposition can better organize itself for the next election. A large part of MB's success was that it was well organized and ready to take advantage of the momentum the revolution created.
Personally though - I have serious reservations that any religious system of law or governance can be truly democratic and provide for a truly free and open society with equal protections for all. We have yet to see that.
This trend is seen throughout the region as questions arise as to what caused this decline in support coupled with where is this movement headed now. This failed experiment leaves behind the legacy that sharia cannot coexist with democratic principals where people need to have freedoms but are thwarted by "the imposition of the Islamist views propagated by the Muslim Brotherhood."
I'm not so sure it's that definitive. Sharia is not a monolithic entity and the Islamist view of Sharia is not the only one. There are Islamic scholars working out how Sharia can fit into a modern and democratic society - that's the real experiment for those countries. There are also democratic countries where Sharia is part of the civil law but not the criminal or penal code.
The Islamists fail because they don't take into account their people and assume a victory is a victory for a fundamentalist religious agenda. What I hope is that the opposition can better organize itself for the next election. A large part of MB's success was that it was well organized and ready to take advantage of the momentum the revolution created.
Personally though - I have serious reservations that any religious system of law or governance can be truly democratic and provide for a truly free and open society with equal protections for all. We have yet to see that.
thank you for steering the discussion in this direction. it is a very confusing issue really because religion plays such a huge part in the lives of many people and the connections between the church and state take many forms and come in varying degrees.
what i find particularly odd about this thread is that it is celebrating a military coup over a democratically elected, albeit currently unpopular, government...lol...and what preceded morsi with mubarak and the arab spring is anyone's guess.
it is very complicated but true democracy doesn't spring up overnight. it takes decades, centuries. to evolve and cannot be forced.
to expect islamic contries not to retain some of the laws (sharia) that have influenced their governance for centuries is as an unrealistic expectation as expecting evangelical christianity to not interject its influence into the political workings of this country.
democracy takes time and proceeds with small steps. we need to let it develop fearlessly on its own accord and meet the needs of those it governs. we need not force it to our own ends.
Israel and the CIA were sabotaging everything they could behind the scenes to destroy the MB
Obama recently gave the Egyptian military 1.5 billion in weapons and support.
Which was in reality a pay off to oust Morsi and kick out the MB from power.
This trend is seen throughout the region as questions arise as to what caused this decline in support coupled with where is this movement headed now. This failed experiment leaves behind the legacy that sharia cannot coexist with democratic principals where people need to have freedoms but are thwarted by "the imposition of the Islamist views propagated by the Muslim Brotherhood."
I'm not so sure it's that definitive. Sharia is not a monolithic entity and the Islamist view of Sharia is not the only one. There are Islamic scholars working out how Sharia can fit into a modern and democratic society - that's the real experiment for those countries. There are also democratic countries where Sharia is part of the civil law but not the criminal or penal code.
The Islamists fail because they don't take into account their people and assume a victory is a victory for a fundamentalist religious agenda. What I hope is that the opposition can better organize itself for the next election. A large part of MB's success was that it was well organized and ready to take advantage of the momentum the revolution created.
Personally though - I have serious reservations that any religious system of law or governance can be truly democratic and provide for a truly free and open society with equal protections for all. We have yet to see that.
thank you for steering the discussion in this direction. it is a very confusing issue really because religion plays such a huge part in the lives of many people and the connections between the church and state take many forms and come in varying degrees.
what i find particularly odd about this thread is that it is celebrating a military coup over a democratically elected, albeit currently unpopular, government...lol...and what preceded morsi with mubarak and the arab spring is anyone's guess.
it is very complicated but true democracy doesn't spring up overnight. it takes decades, centuries. to evolve and cannot be forced.
to expect islamic contries not to retain some of the laws (sharia) that have influenced their governance for centuries is as an unrealistic expectation as expecting evangelical christianity to not interject its influence into the political workings of this country.
democracy takes time and proceeds with small steps. we need to let it develop fearlessly on its own accord and meet the needs of those it governs. we need not force it to our own ends.
I'm not so sure it's that definitive. Sharia is not a monolithic entity and the Islamist view of Sharia is not the only one. There are Islamic scholars working out how Sharia can fit into a modern and democratic society - that's the real experiment for those countries. There are also democratic countries where Sharia is part of the civil law but not the criminal or penal code.
The Islamists fail because they don't take into account their people and assume a victory is a victory for a fundamentalist religious agenda. What I hope is that the opposition can better organize itself for the next election. A large part of MB's success was that it was well organized and ready to take advantage of the momentum the revolution created.
Personally though - I have serious reservations that any religious system of law or governance can be truly democratic and provide for a truly free and open society with equal protections for all. We have yet to see that.
thank you for steering the discussion in this direction. it is a very confusing issue really because religion plays such a huge part in the lives of many people and the connections between the church and state take many forms and come in varying degrees.
what i find particularly odd about this thread is that it is celebrating a military coup over a democratically elected, albeit currently unpopular, government...lol...and what preceded morsi with mubarak and the arab spring is anyone's guess.
it is very complicated but true democracy doesn't spring up overnight. it takes decades, centuries. to evolve and cannot be forced.
to expect islamic contries not to retain some of the laws (sharia) that have influenced their governance for centuries is as an unrealistic expectation as expecting evangelical christianity to not interject its influence into the political workings of this country.
democracy takes time and proceeds with small steps. we need to let it develop fearlessly on its own accord and meet the needs of those it governs. we need not force it to our own ends.
The the Islamist-backed constitution under Morsy's decree came into effect in December 2012. Further, "Liberals, Christians and other minority opposition groups said they felt excluded from the Constituent Assembly that drafted it and that the wording did not include their voices. They had sought a new assembly.
Opposition members said the charter uses vague language and will not protect the rights Egyptians fought for in last year's revolution, which ousted former President Hosni Mubarak."
The Egyptian people were sold a bill of goods which was in effect a bait and switch by Morsi and his rouges gallery of henchmen who had an agenda the people simply would not stand for.
As far as steering the thread back? This is about the failings of the Muslim Brotherhood and the direction they are headed.
Israel and the CIA were sabotaging everything they could behind the scenes to destroy the MB
Obama recently gave the Egyptian military 1.5 billion in weapons and support.
Which was in reality a pay off to oust Morsi and kick out the MB from power.
I don't think Obama knows what the hell he's doing.
He's friends with the MB, and he supports them. Maybe he thought they had better control of the military.
I seriously think Obama cannot do anything right unless it is preordained.
I'm not so sure it's that definitive. Sharia is not a monolithic entity and the Islamist view of Sharia is not the only one. There are Islamic scholars working out how Sharia can fit into a modern and democratic society - that's the real experiment for those countries. There are also democratic countries where Sharia is part of the civil law but not the criminal or penal code.
The Islamists fail because they don't take into account their people and assume a victory is a victory for a fundamentalist religious agenda. What I hope is that the opposition can better organize itself for the next election. A large part of MB's success was that it was well organized and ready to take advantage of the momentum the revolution created.
Personally though - I have serious reservations that any religious system of law or governance can be truly democratic and provide for a truly free and open society with equal protections for all. We have yet to see that.
thank you for steering the discussion in this direction. it is a very confusing issue really because religion plays such a huge part in the lives of many people and the connections between the church and state take many forms and come in varying degrees.
what i find particularly odd about this thread is that it is celebrating a military coup over a democratically elected, albeit currently unpopular, government...lol...and what preceded morsi with mubarak and the arab spring is anyone's guess.
it is very complicated but true democracy doesn't spring up overnight. it takes decades, centuries. to evolve and cannot be forced.
to expect islamic contries not to retain some of the laws (sharia) that have influenced their governance for centuries is as an unrealistic expectation as expecting evangelical christianity to not interject its influence into the political workings of this country.
democracy takes time and proceeds with small steps. we need to let it develop fearlessly on its own accord and meet the needs of those it governs. we need not force it to our own ends.
The the Islamist-backed constitution under Morsy's decree came into effect in December 2012. Further, "Liberals, Christians and other minority opposition groups said they felt excluded from the Constituent Assembly that drafted it and that the wording did not include their voices. They had sought a new assembly.
Opposition members said the charter uses vague language and will not protect the rights Egyptians fought for in last year's revolution, which ousted former President Hosni Mubarak."
The Egyptian people were sold a bill of goods which was in effect a bait and switch by Morsi and his rouges gallery of henchmen who had an agenda the people simply would not stand for.
As far as steering the thread back? This is about the failings of the Muslim Brotherhood and the direction they are headed.
thank you for steering the discussion in this direction. it is a very confusing issue really because religion plays such a huge part in the lives of many people and the connections between the church and state take many forms and come in varying degrees.
what i find particularly odd about this thread is that it is celebrating a military coup over a democratically elected, albeit currently unpopular, government...lol...and what preceded morsi with mubarak and the arab spring is anyone's guess.
it is very complicated but true democracy doesn't spring up overnight. it takes decades, centuries. to evolve and cannot be forced.
to expect islamic contries not to retain some of the laws (sharia) that have influenced their governance for centuries is as an unrealistic expectation as expecting evangelical christianity to not interject its influence into the political workings of this country.
democracy takes time and proceeds with small steps. we need to let it develop fearlessly on its own accord and meet the needs of those it governs. we need not force it to our own ends.
The the Islamist-backed constitution under Morsy's decree came into effect in December 2012. Further, "Liberals, Christians and other minority opposition groups said they felt excluded from the Constituent Assembly that drafted it and that the wording did not include their voices. They had sought a new assembly.
Opposition members said the charter uses vague language and will not protect the rights Egyptians fought for in last year's revolution, which ousted former President Hosni Mubarak."
The Egyptian people were sold a bill of goods which was in effect a bait and switch by Morsi and his rouges gallery of henchmen who had an agenda the people simply would not stand for.
As far as steering the thread back? This is about the failings of the Muslim Brotherhood and the direction they are headed.
Agree. One of the criticism levied towards Morsi was his unbending and uncompromising attitude towards the other political groups and towards the wishes of his electorate. He over-reached and refused to work with the opposition, something that is necessary in a democratic form of government.
But - what is disturbing is, bait or switch or not - he was fairly elected and the way in which he was deposed is not ideal - not for a democracy.
Make no mistake about it.
Israel's mossad and the CIA are behind the unrest and ousting of Pres. Morsi.
It's zionist rulers hated the idea of the Muslim Brotherhood being in control of Egypt.
Hopefully, in the next few days, the Muslim Brotherhood will be forced entirely underground once again, by the patriotic Egyptian People and their Army, as the supporters of the bait-and-switch Brotherhood Proxy Figurehead (Morsi, democratically-elected but revealed as autocrat-in-the-making, who was deposed before he-and-his could do still more damage to Egypt) are shown for the dangerous minority that Western sources believe them to be.Hopefully, in the next few days, the Muslim Brotherhood and the patriotic Egyption people will stage a counter coup and restore the democratically elected Pres. Morsi back to office.
Hopefully, in the next few days, the Muslim Brotherhood and the patriotic Egyption people will stage a counter coup and restore the democratically elected Pres. Morsi back to office.
