A Conservative's view on waterboarding

[Dr.Drock]

Also, there can be no way of knowing how many people were waterboarded that were innocent and just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

If waterboarding is like taking a cold shower and for a few minutes believing you are drowning, why were all the videos destroyed?

This thread, led by Del, has done a wonderful job of exposing the pro-waterboarders.

The reason they don't want it used on american suspects, is because they know it's no better than regular interrogation and that there is a physical abuse aspect.

They've gone all in with republicans, and they like knowing terrorists are being put through pain, obtaining information for security reasons is the last thing they care about or they'd want this information used on american suspects as well.

Very eye opening, I learned a lot.

Nice assumption... not at all the truth.... but you seemed to like using that to twist circumstances to fit your argument position

I'm forced to make assessments based on what's said because everyone on this thread has been afraid to give their position.

All that has to happen is for me to be told I'm incorrect and why, hasn't happened yet.

 

[MaggieMae]

I've always wondered why people who think waterboarding is great don't want it done in prisons or in trials.

If waterboarding has a magical way of getting even scumbag terrorists to become genuine, honest people instantly, why not do it to scumbag rapists, murderers etc?

I have to believe your title of Dr. is self assigned.

I always wonder why people are so scared to answer that question.


If it works on terror suspects, why wouldn't you want it done to rape or murder suspects?

Wouldn't it be good to waterboard someone to find out where they buried a body?

If they raped a kid?

Give me the argument why it's ok against terrorists and not ok with the others.

Because Americans are not barbarians, and we live in a civil society. Oh wait...

 

[signelect]

We are in a war we don't understand and have never faced before. Remember carpet bombing in WWII, tell me that wasn't inhumane but it was war. We are dealing with people who will tell some smuch that he is going to get great rewards if he will strap on a bomb and go kill a bunch of people that never did him any harm.

They changed the rules, we didn't but once they set the rules both sides get to play. I still have the image of people jumping from the 80th floor of WTC, talk about torture. Bring on the hose and lets ask some hard question, failure to tell the truth is not an option.

 

[MaggieMae]

this message cannot be viewed because del is on your ignore list.

This discussion goes so much better when the drekk is filtered out.

Oh sure, then all we get to see are your little tantrums and thinking you've "won" because of it. You DO know, you can actually "see" the comments and keep him on ignore, I hope, if del's comments are copied into someone else's. My guess is you're doing that anyway; that is if you really have him on ignore at all.

 

[Sheldon]

this message cannot be viewed because del is on your ignore list.

This discussion goes so much better when the drekk is filtered out.

Oh sure, then all we get to see are your little tantrums and thinking you've "won" because of it. You DO know, you can actually "see" the comments and keep him on ignore, I hope, if del's comments are copied into someone else's. My guess is you're doing that anyway; that is if you really have him on ignore at all.

I'm almost 115 percent sure that moderators can't be put on ignore.

Poor Rabbi. A little man trapped in his little mind in his little word with his little lies.

 

[MaggieMae]

If you can jump for joy and boast about killing Gaddafi's Son & Grandchildren or blowing an unarmed man's face off,you have no right to whine about dunking some brutal Terrorist's head in some water. The War Mongering Left sounds more dishonest and nonsensical by the day. Their phony outrage over Water-Boarding was all about getting the power back. Nothing more,nothing less. And that's the fact Jack.

Who jumped for joy?

 

[Dr.Drock]

I have to believe your title of Dr. is self assigned.

I always wonder why people are so scared to answer that question.


If it works on terror suspects, why wouldn't you want it done to rape or murder suspects?

Wouldn't it be good to waterboard someone to find out where they buried a body?

If they raped a kid?

Give me the argument why it's ok against terrorists and not ok with the others.

Because Americans are not barbarians, and we live in a civil society. Oh wait...

It's funny the people who (correctly) complain about the actions of terrorists are the ones who try the hardest to make us more like them.

 

[MaggieMae]

We are in a war we don't understand and have never faced before. Remember carpet bombing in WWII, tell me that wasn't inhumane but it was war. We are dealing with people who will tell some smuch that he is going to get great rewards if he will strap on a bomb and go kill a bunch of people that never did him any harm.

They changed the rules, we didn't but once they set the rules both sides get to play. I still have the image of people jumping from the 80th floor of WTC, talk about torture. Bring on the hose and lets ask some hard question, failure to tell the truth is not an option.

That would be wonderful if there was a guarantee that the truth would be told. But how often were terrorists waterboarded and just spewed out diversions? Is there some magic involved in knowing what's truth and what's fiction? Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was waterboarded 183 times in one month. And there STILL is no confirmation by the CIA that anything he said led to saving lives. I'm not suggesting there wasn't, but the results of waterboarding are still vague as to its genuine effectiveness, other than torturing just because we hated the guy.

 

[DiamondDave]

This thread, led by Del, has done a wonderful job of exposing the pro-waterboarders.

The reason they don't want it used on american suspects, is because they know it's no better than regular interrogation and that there is a physical abuse aspect.

They've gone all in with republicans, and they like knowing terrorists are being put through pain, obtaining information for security reasons is the last thing they care about or they'd want this information used on american suspects as well.

Very eye opening, I learned a lot.

Nice assumption... not at all the truth.... but you seemed to like using that to twist circumstances to fit your argument position

I'm forced to make assessments based on what's said because everyone on this thread has been afraid to give their position.

All that has to happen is for me to be told I'm incorrect and why, hasn't happened yet.

Nice try...

I have given mine freely... I cannot accept what you choose to hear, nor can I control how others put their opinions or messages across

 

[xsited1]

We are in a war we don't understand and have never faced before. Remember carpet bombing in WWII, tell me that wasn't inhumane but it was war. We are dealing with people who will tell some smuch that he is going to get great rewards if he will strap on a bomb and go kill a bunch of people that never did him any harm.

They changed the rules, we didn't but once they set the rules both sides get to play. I still have the image of people jumping from the 80th floor of WTC, talk about torture. Bring on the hose and lets ask some hard question, failure to tell the truth is not an option.

That would be wonderful if there was a guarantee that the truth would be told. But how often were terrorists waterboarded and just spewed out diversions? Is there some magic involved in knowing what's truth and what's fiction? Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was waterboarded 183 times in one month. And there STILL is no confirmation by the CIA that anything he said led to saving lives. I'm not suggesting there wasn't, but the results of waterboarding are still vague as to its genuine effectiveness, other than torturing just because we hated the guy.

I don't think the common citizen will ever know if the results of waterboarding are effective. Leon Panetta alluded to the idea that some of the intelligence used to find and kill OBL was obtained using waterboarding. I'm sure this will continue to be debated for centuries to come. I do believe, however, that if someone's child was kidnapped and it was believed that a person in custody had information as to his whereabouts but was unwilling to provide that information, most parents would approve of waterboarding to obtain that information.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

so if the govt decided to round up all americans of a certain ethnic or religious background in order to protect us, you'd be okay with that?

Also, there can be no way of knowing how many people were waterboarded that were innocent and just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

If waterboarding is like taking a cold shower and for a few minutes believing you are drowning, why were all the videos destroyed?

This thread, led by Del, has done a wonderful job of exposing the pro-waterboarders.

The reason they don't want it used on american suspects, is because they know it's no better than regular interrogation and that there is a physical abuse aspect.

They've gone all in with republicans, and they like knowing terrorists are being put through pain, obtaining information for security reasons is the last thing they care about or they'd want this information used on american suspects as well.

Very eye opening, I learned a lot.

Yet you remain ignorant.

 

[bodecea]

Also, there can be no way of knowing how many people were waterboarded that were innocent and just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

If waterboarding is like taking a cold shower and for a few minutes believing you are drowning, why were all the videos destroyed?

This thread, led by Del, has done a wonderful job of exposing the pro-waterboarders.

The reason they don't want it used on american suspects, is because they know it's no better than regular interrogation and that there is a physical abuse aspect.

They've gone all in with republicans, and they like knowing terrorists are being put through pain, obtaining information for security reasons is the last thing they care about or they'd want this information used on american suspects as well.

Very eye opening, I learned a lot.

Yet you remain ignorant.

*goes out of way to show that he is smart/others are stupid.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Nice assumption... not at all the truth.... but you seemed to like using that to twist circumstances to fit your argument position

I'm forced to make assessments based on what's said because everyone on this thread has been afraid to give their position.

All that has to happen is for me to be told I'm incorrect and why, hasn't happened yet.

Nice try...

I have given mine freely... I cannot accept what you choose to hear, nor can I control how others put their opinions or messages across

Fair enough, then please go back and answer my question about waterboarding american suspects.

Every other pro-waterboarder has been scared to, trust me I'd be very happy to find one who wasn't and instead preferred openness and honesty.

 

[The Rabbi]

My view on waterboarding is that I feel bad for those who really didn't do anything wrong but were tortured. I have no sympathy for actual terrorists that get waterboarded.

I totally support waterboarding on actual terrorists.

I would like to assume our military only waterboards KNOWN radicals and not civilians they "suspect" may have intel.

You realize that waterboarding is not a punishment, and therefore no one does anything "wrong" to get it, right? The only think wrong people can do is withhold information vital to saving American lives.

I never implied it was a punishment... Its a tool to get information and I know that.

I suppose if you look at it philosophically - it is a punishment to the innocent.

I support waterboarding, I just don't like to see innocent people who know nothing get the hose (pun intended indeed)..

You understand that waterboarding is used only after it has been determined that there is a very very high likelihood that the person is withholding valuable information, and other methods have failed to obtain it, right?

 

[The Rabbi]

this message cannot be viewed because del is on your ignore list.

This discussion goes so much better when the drekk is filtered out.

Oh sure, then all we get to see are your little tantrums and thinking you've "won" because of it. You DO know, you can actually "see" the comments and keep him on ignore, I hope, if del's comments are copied into someone else's. My guess is you're doing that anyway; that is if you really have him on ignore at all.

I'm almost 115 percent sure that moderators can't be put on ignore.

Poor Rabbi. A little man trapped in his little mind in his little word with his little lies.

Moderators can be put on ignore.
del is a female. Or pretends to be anyway.

Oh. And you suck.

 

[xsited1]

Oh sure, then all we get to see are your little tantrums and thinking you've "won" because of it. You DO know, you can actually "see" the comments and keep him on ignore, I hope, if del's comments are copied into someone else's. My guess is you're doing that anyway; that is if you really have him on ignore at all.

I'm almost 115 percent sure that moderators can't be put on ignore.

Poor Rabbi. A little man trapped in his little mind in his little word with his little lies.

Moderators can be put on ignore.
del is a female. Or pretends to be anyway.

Oh. And you suck.

Tried it:

Sorry del is a moderator/admin and you are not allowed to ignore him or her.

Maybe your account is somehow different from mine.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

This thread, led by Del, has done a wonderful job of exposing the pro-waterboarders.

The reason they don't want it used on american suspects, is because they know it's no better than regular interrogation and that there is a physical abuse aspect.

They've gone all in with republicans, and they like knowing terrorists are being put through pain, obtaining information for security reasons is the last thing they care about or they'd want this information used on american suspects as well.

Very eye opening, I learned a lot.

Yet you remain ignorant.

*goes out of way to show that he is smart/others are stupid.

Show us your not ignorant.

Is waterboarding used to illicit information? If so, then why are those subjected to it asked questions that we already know the answer to?

 

[Dr.Drock]

Yet you remain ignorant.

*goes out of way to show that he is smart/others are stupid.

Show us your not ignorant.

Is waterboarding used to illicit information? If so, then why are those subjected to it asked questions that we already know the answer to?

You do this a lot, learn your vs you're before you call others ignorant.

And don't answer this until a pro-waterboarder answers if they think it's ok to illicit information from americans suspected of crimes in the same way.

 

[The Rabbi]

*goes out of way to show that he is smart/others are stupid.

Show us your not ignorant.

Is waterboarding used to illicit information? If so, then why are those subjected to it asked questions that we already know the answer to?

You do this a lot, learn your vs you're before you call others ignorant.

And don't answer this until a pro-waterboarder answers if they think it's ok to illicit information from americans suspected of crimes in the same way.

The word is "elicit", Einstein.

Americans in a civil society have rights that preclude using techniques like waterboarding.
Prisoners, especially those not subject to the Geneva Convention, do not have such rights.
False premise to your argument.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Show us your not ignorant.

Is waterboarding used to illicit information? If so, then why are those subjected to it asked questions that we already know the answer to?

You do this a lot, learn your vs you're before you call others ignorant.

And don't answer this until a pro-waterboarder answers if they think it's ok to illicit information from americans suspected of crimes in the same way.

The word is "elicit", Einstein.

Americans in a civil society have rights that preclude using techniques like waterboarding.
Prisoners, especially those not subject to the Geneva Convention, do not have such rights.
False premise to your argument.

I'm not comparing the situations, I'm asking if you'd like the limitations removed so that we could waterboard american crime suspects.

Ignore he prisoner thing, if you would like for that to be possible here would you, why or why not?