A few questions so I will know who I'm dealing with...

[toastman]

OP, you realize those same questions can vary and also the same concerns are to be addressed by the other side. This is a vast world with people with many different views and it isn't simply black and white as you see it.

Now, the irony of this 'post quiz' you've entertained us with is that you've given us a general rundown of who we're dealing with.

The same arrogant and extremist views shared by Likud officials in the Israeli government and is looked down upon around the world.

It's a shame some people still have these extreme black and white views, either a Jewish state or a Palestinian state and that's it. They come from both sides but honestly we see it commonly from the israeli side, the Palestinians on the other hand are just asking for independence and their rights.

Even though you may whitewash their intentions with your own fabrications.

Then start a thread about it addressing the questions from the other side. I'm actually serious, it might be an interesting thread ...

that can be done in this thread, which i did and was greeted with the comment "irrelevant" several times.

Well it's not irrelevant, but it would kind of be like derailing the thread.
I would definitely partake in the thread id it is started

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, to an extent I agree.

You are trying to confuse the issue.

There were the Jews who immigrated on their own to live in the holy land. Then there were the Jews who were imported by the Zionists to take over the country. They were two separate, unrelated groups of people.

The immigration policy when Palestine was part of the Ottoman Empire were no longer valid.

(COMMENT)

After the Ottoman Empire, there was:

All necessary measures shall be taken to encourage and stimulate immigration of Jews into Palestine on a large scale, and as quickly as possible to settle Jewish immigrants upon the land through closer settlement and intensive cultivation of the soil. In taking such measures the Arab peasant and tenant farmers shall be protected in their rights, and shall be assisted in forwarding their economic development.

SOURCE: Faisal-Weizmann agreement/Non-UN document (3 January 1919)

Most Respectfully,
R

Two foreigners make an agreement.

OK???

 

[pbel]

this is directed primarily to the anti-israel/pro-"palestinian" posters...

1. Do you believe that there should be a jewish state of israel?

2. The old city of jerusalem should be under (a) israeli control; (b) jordanian control; (c) palestinian control; or (d) international control?

3. Do you believe that a viable "2 state solution" can include a "palestinian right of return" to israel?

4. Rocket fire from gaza into israel constitutes (a) terrorist activity, or (b) legitimate resistence.

5. Do you believe that the majority of those who consider themselves "palestinians" support a "two-state solution" resulting in a peaceful coexistence with a jewish state of israel?

1. Y
2. D
3. N
4. A
5. Y

 

[Hossfly]

this is directed primarily to the anti-israel/pro-"palestinian" posters...

1. Do you believe that there should be a jewish state of israel?

2. The old city of jerusalem should be under (a) israeli control; (b) jordanian control; (c) palestinian control; or (d) international control?

3. Do you believe that a viable "2 state solution" can include a "palestinian right of return" to israel?

4. Rocket fire from gaza into israel constitutes (a) terrorist activity, or (b) legitimate resistence.

5. Do you believe that the majority of those who consider themselves "palestinians" support a "two-state solution" resulting in a peaceful coexistence with a jewish state of israel?

1. Y
2. D
3. N
4. A
5. Y

Only 60% right Phillip. Go sit in the corner with your dunce cap on. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Why is it that when I click on page 12 I get page 11?

Anyone else having this Problem?

 

[Roudy]

There are Jews that are Anti-Zionist Roudy.
It's not that simple.

Does Israel have a Right to exist?
If it puts God first, establishes and serves Justice, by all means.

Does Palestine have a Right to Exist? If it puts God first, establishes and serves Justice. Yes. Can it do that while denying Israel's right to exist and live in peace? Not at all.

What is the foundation community is built on? What is your reaction to being treated fairly and honestly, as opposed to being cheated or scammed, or exploited? Value for value. What kind of seeds you plant, they are going to mature.

As Believers, is the foundation, God first in all things, regardless of the brand? What does that promote? It is not about getting the World to choose sides. It is about atonement across the board. Just a thought.

You are confusing anti Zionism with being critical of Israel. Do you understand what is the definition of anti Zionism? Zionism is simply the right for the Jewish people to exist in the land that is central to their faith and which their ancestors lived in. So one cannot be an "anti Zionist" and then say I believe that Israel has the right to exist. There are many Americans that are critical of the USA and its policies, including myself, does that make me anti American? However, not surprisingly you will find that most anti zionists happen to also be anti American.

Israel is a democracy by all standards, and has proven that it is for justice and peace and willing to make sacrifices to establish peace, as it has done in the past with Jordan and Egypt. Unfortunately the Palestinians as they say "never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity" and have shown many times that all they are interested in is the total destruction of the Israeli state to be replaced by an Islamic Palestinian Kalifate. That of course will never happen.

No I'm not, nor am I confusing Israels short comings with It's Right to exist. Zionism, to me, by definition means a Jewish State. I'm neither a Citizen of Israel or Jewish. I don't see that as my business, anymore than I would have an interest in Saudi Arabia choosing to be Sharia. Here in USA, We have chosen a path that, at least in theory, tries to protect and preserve Individual Rights without regard to gender or religion. Personally, that is my preference. What I am saying to you, as a witness, before the One True God, Maker of Heaven and Earth, is that my remaining true to your Faith, you are less likely to be the servant of Injustice, be you Jew or Muslim. God first in all things leaves little room for backsliding, scamming others, or compounding the damage. Christ was not the first to proclaim doing something other than returning evil for evil. There is a better way. Ezekiel Chapter 18 is a favorite of mine. Make no mistake, I support Israel's right to exist, as a matter of faith.

Thanks for your honesty. Faith and its uses and abuses throughout human history can be a never ending thread. Many of those who believed that they were "staying true to their faith and God" were actually in total violation of their faith and God, as you know.

I am not a "devout Jew" nor am I the type you would see walking on Saturdays or keeping Kosher. But my life experience has taught me to be weary of those who practice any religion to an extreme. As a secular Jew born and raised in Muslim societies, I believe that Israel's right to exist is not only a matter of faith, but of necessity as well. And the only way to guarantee that there won't be another genocide or Holocaust committed upon Jews, just because of their faith.

 

[sealadaigh]

You are confusing anti Zionism with being critical of Israel. Do you understand what is the definition of anti Zionism? Zionism is simply the right for the Jewish people to exist in the land that is central to their faith and which their ancestors lived in. So one cannot be an "anti Zionist" and then say I believe that Israel has the right to exist. There are many Americans that are critical of the USA and its policies, including myself, does that make me anti American? However, not surprisingly you will find that most anti zionists happen to also be anti American.

Israel is a democracy by all standards, and has proven that it is for justice and peace and willing to make sacrifices to establish peace, as it has done in the past with Jordan and Egypt. Unfortunately the Palestinians as they say "never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity" and have shown many times that all they are interested in is the total destruction of the Israeli state to be replaced by an Islamic Palestinian Kalifate. That of course will never happen.

No I'm not, nor am I confusing Israels short comings with It's Right to exist. Zionism, to me, by definition means a Jewish State. I'm neither a Citizen of Israel or Jewish. I don't see that as my business, anymore than I would have an interest in Saudi Arabia choosing to be Sharia. Here in USA, We have chosen a path that, at least in theory, tries to protect and preserve Individual Rights without regard to gender or religion. Personally, that is my preference. What I am saying to you, as a witness, before the One True God, Maker of Heaven and Earth, is that my remaining true to your Faith, you are less likely to be the servant of Injustice, be you Jew or Muslim. God first in all things leaves little room for backsliding, scamming others, or compounding the damage. Christ was not the first to proclaim doing something other than returning evil for evil. There is a better way. Ezekiel Chapter 18 is a favorite of mine. Make no mistake, I support Israel's right to exist, as a matter of faith.

Thanks for your honesty. Faith and its uses and abuses throughout human history can be a never ending thread. Many of those who believed that they were "staying true to their faith and God" were actually in total violation of their faith and God, as you know.

I am not a "devout Jew" nor am I the type you would see walking on Saturdays or keeping Kosher. But my life experience has taught me to be weary of those who practice any religion to an extreme. As a secular Jew born and raised in Muslim societies, I believe that Israel's right to exist is not only a matter of faith, but of necessity as well. And the only way to guarantee that there won't be another genocide or Holocaust committed upon Jews, just because of their faith.

makes perfect sense. gather all the jews together in one small place, plop them down right in the middle of a hostile population that outnumbers them 100 to 1, abuse the native population and force them to live in refugee camps in neighbouring states endlessly and generally act like jerks. i can think of no more sure way than that to insure any population from genocide and provide for a safe and secure homeland..

 

[Connery]

Thread cleaned again actions taken regarding offending poster.

The Administration and the Moderation Team are serious in their efforts to have a civil discourse as it pertains to the OP and any further posts which violate Zone 2 rules will be viewed in a more serious manner where infractions will be administered on a case by case basis.

 

[Indofred]

Indofred, et al,

I thank you for the straight forward way in which you approach the interrogatives.

In an attempt to make the dialog manageable, the Asperger's in me says: Start with Issue #1.

This is directed primarily to the anti-Israel/pro-"Palestinian" posters...

1. Do you believe that there should be a Jewish State of Israel?

No. No state should be built on a bigoted/racist principle that allows for only one religion/ethnic group/whatever.
That is wrong.

(PREFACE)

The response you gave answers the question, What Kind of State? But it doesn't truly answer if there "should be a state." Of course, clearly the inference here is that you don't agree with that either.

There is no question that Arab and Zionist Leadership understood what the intentions were of each other.

The Zionist wanted a home where they could be safe. Were both parties wrong?

Most Respectfully,
R

How polite.

Should there be a state - no.

I firmly believe the state of Israel should never have come into existence as it's been nothing but the cause of death, suffering and misery.

The Zionists were wrong as the violent action to create the country was guaranteed problems and expand more extreme actions amongst displaced people.

Time has pretty much proven that.

However, that doesn't mean I don't think Jews have no right to live in that area.
As far as I'm concerned - had there been no Israel and immigration had been slower; I believe all could have lived together in peace.
Sadly, there was sudden mass immigration and a violent creation of a country, starting with terrorist attacks by the new, Jewish immigrants.
Again - historical fact and undisputed but one side wants it forgotten.

Has those events not come to pass; there would be no middle east situation as we see today.

As for safe - hardly.
All the more extreme elements want Israel gone and that war, should it ever happen, will kill thousands on both sides, regardless of who wins.
Hardly safe as it will happen sooner or later.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

For those who think that the "Palestinians" support a two state solution, consider this:

Senior PA Official: ALL of Israel is Occupied Palestine | United with Israel

Sidenote: I didn't realize that Dr. Phil was a PA official.

 

[Roudy]

No I'm not, nor am I confusing Israels short comings with It's Right to exist. Zionism, to me, by definition means a Jewish State. I'm neither a Citizen of Israel or Jewish. I don't see that as my business, anymore than I would have an interest in Saudi Arabia choosing to be Sharia. Here in USA, We have chosen a path that, at least in theory, tries to protect and preserve Individual Rights without regard to gender or religion. Personally, that is my preference. What I am saying to you, as a witness, before the One True God, Maker of Heaven and Earth, is that my remaining true to your Faith, you are less likely to be the servant of Injustice, be you Jew or Muslim. God first in all things leaves little room for backsliding, scamming others, or compounding the damage. Christ was not the first to proclaim doing something other than returning evil for evil. There is a better way. Ezekiel Chapter 18 is a favorite of mine. Make no mistake, I support Israel's right to exist, as a matter of faith.

Thanks for your honesty. Faith and its uses and abuses throughout human history can be a never ending thread. Many of those who believed that they were "staying true to their faith and God" were actually in total violation of their faith and God, as you know.

I am not a "devout Jew" nor am I the type you would see walking on Saturdays or keeping Kosher. But my life experience has taught me to be weary of those who practice any religion to an extreme. As a secular Jew born and raised in Muslim societies, I believe that Israel's right to exist is not only a matter of faith, but of necessity as well. And the only way to guarantee that there won't be another genocide or Holocaust committed upon Jews, just because of their faith.

makes perfect sense. gather all the jews together in one small place, plop them down right in the middle of a hostile population that outnumbers them 100 to 1, abuse the native population and force them to live in refugee camps in neighbouring states endlessly and generally act like jerks. i can think of no more sure way than that to insure any population from genocide and provide for a safe and secure homeland..

Israel is the only thing that is preventing another genocidal anti Semitic maniac rising up to successfully kill Jews. Anti Semetism is not a recent phenomenon, it is a disease that has been around for thousands of years and will continue to be around. The screams of "slaughter the Jews!" Did not start because of Israel, in fact Israel is the result of genocide after genocide after pogroms by various groups thought history, until Jews who are one of the most peaceful people in history, had enough.

It is Jewish belief that in every generation a new evil will rise up to try eliminate the Jews. Yesterday it was the Nazis and Hitler and today it's Iran's IslamoNazis, the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, Hezbollah, Al queda, etc. not much has changed except for the geographical location. Both of these evils say the same things that have been said about the Jews (and repeated by you), ie Jews are greedy, they are out to control the world, they only care about themselves, they think they are better than others and consider themselves 'chosen', they are bloodsucking vampires who enjoy killing non Jews, blah blah blah.

The only difference is that this generation there is an Israel, which makes the animals think twice about the consequences of desiring to commit genocide upon the Jews.

 

[Hossfly]

Indofred, et al,

I thank you for the straight forward way in which you approach the interrogatives.

In an attempt to make the dialog manageable, the Asperger's in me says: Start with Issue #1.

(PREFACE)

The response you gave answers the question, What Kind of State? But it doesn't truly answer if there "should be a state." Of course, clearly the inference here is that you don't agree with that either.

There is no question that Arab and Zionist Leadership understood what the intentions were of each other.

The Zionist wanted a home where they could be safe. Were both parties wrong?

Most Respectfully,
R

How polite.

Should there be a state - no.

I firmly believe the state of Israel should never have come into existence as it's been nothing but the cause of death, suffering and misery.

The Zionists were wrong as the violent action to create the country was guaranteed problems and expand more extreme actions amongst displaced people.

Time has pretty much proven that.

However, that doesn't mean I don't think Jews have no right to live in that area.
As far as I'm concerned - had there been no Israel and immigration had been slower; I believe all could have lived together in peace.
Sadly, there was sudden mass immigration and a violent creation of a country, starting with terrorist attacks by the new, Jewish immigrants.
Again - historical fact and undisputed but one side wants it forgotten.

Has those events not come to pass; there would be no middle east situation as we see today.

As for safe - hardly.
All the more extreme elements want Israel gone and that war, should it ever happen, will kill thousands on both sides, regardless of who wins.
Hardly safe as it will happen sooner or later.

I wonder if Fred, the good Muslim convert, would ever say that Pakistan should never have been carved out of India. Why did the Muslims have to have their own country? Was it really that difficult for them to get along with the Hindus. When you compare Israel to Pakistan, you don't see the same things you see happen in Pakistan where people are suicide bombed and car bombed because of their religious beliefs, their houses of worship destroyed as well as being thrown in jail rotting away because of some alleged blasphemy. Maybe Fred could have some sympathy for the Shiites who are moving to Australia because of what Fred's Sunni brethren are doing to them. And we have to remember that the Ahmadis have said that the only place they feel safe is in America. After all, Fred must remember the time his brethren blew up two Ahmadi mosques where dozens of people were killed and dozens more injured. Strange how the Muslims around the world have it in for Israel and are so quiet about what their fellow Muslims are doing to innocent others.

 

[Roudy]

Fred the extremist, convert to Islam moron:

I firmly believe the state of Israel should never have come into existence as it's been nothing but the cause of death, suffering and misery.

Now, you are either an ignorant related, or totally uneducated, or both, to say something like that. Do you know the death and misery brought about by each of these Muslim govt.'s and the leaders upon their own people and neighboring countries, just in the 20th and 21st century? No you don't. Or you don't want to.

I suggest you read up each of their histories before vomiting the garbage you just did.

 

[toastman]

Indofred, et al,

I thank you for the straight forward way in which you approach the interrogatives.

In an attempt to make the dialog manageable, the Asperger's in me says: Start with Issue #1.

(PREFACE)

The response you gave answers the question, What Kind of State? But it doesn't truly answer if there "should be a state." Of course, clearly the inference here is that you don't agree with that either.

There is no question that Arab and Zionist Leadership understood what the intentions were of each other.

The Zionist wanted a home where they could be safe. Were both parties wrong?

Most Respectfully,
R

How polite.

Should there be a state - no.

I firmly believe the state of Israel should never have come into existence as it's been nothing but the cause of death, suffering and misery.

The Zionists were wrong as the violent action to create the country was guaranteed problems and expand more extreme actions amongst displaced people.

Time has pretty much proven that.

However, that doesn't mean I don't think Jews have no right to live in that area.
As far as I'm concerned - had there been no Israel and immigration had been slower; I believe all could have lived together in peace.
Sadly, there was sudden mass immigration and a violent creation of a country, starting with terrorist attacks by the new, Jewish immigrants.
Again - historical fact and undisputed but one side wants it forgotten.

Has those events not come to pass; there would be no middle east situation as we see today.

As for safe - hardly.
All the more extreme elements want Israel gone and that war, should it ever happen, will kill thousands on both sides, regardless of who wins.
Hardly safe as it will happen sooner or later.

Spoken like a true Jihadist. This is Arab propaganda at its best folks.

People like you who always question the justification of Israels existence need to stop bitching about the fact that Israel DOES exist. As a matter of fact, the sooner the Palestinians and hostile Arab States acknowledge that Israel does in fact exist in the Middle East and that she's not going anywhere, the sooner there could be peace.

 

[Indofred]

Indofred, et al,

I thank you for the straight forward way in which you approach the interrogatives.

In an attempt to make the dialog manageable, the Asperger's in me says: Start with Issue #1.


(PREFACE)

The response you gave answers the question, What Kind of State? But it doesn't truly answer if there "should be a state." Of course, clearly the inference here is that you don't agree with that either.

There is no question that Arab and Zionist Leadership understood what the intentions were of each other.

The Zionist wanted a home where they could be safe. Were both parties wrong?

Most Respectfully,
R

How polite.

Should there be a state - no.

I firmly believe the state of Israel should never have come into existence as it's been nothing but the cause of death, suffering and misery.

The Zionists were wrong as the violent action to create the country was guaranteed problems and expand more extreme actions amongst displaced people.

Time has pretty much proven that.

However, that doesn't mean I don't think Jews have no right to live in that area.
As far as I'm concerned - had there been no Israel and immigration had been slower; I believe all could have lived together in peace.
Sadly, there was sudden mass immigration and a violent creation of a country, starting with terrorist attacks by the new, Jewish immigrants.
Again - historical fact and undisputed but one side wants it forgotten.

Has those events not come to pass; there would be no middle east situation as we see today.

As for safe - hardly.
All the more extreme elements want Israel gone and that war, should it ever happen, will kill thousands on both sides, regardless of who wins.
Hardly safe as it will happen sooner or later.

Spoken like a true Jihadist. This is Arab propaganda at its best folks.

People like you who always question the justification of Israels existence need to stop bitching about the fact that Israel DOES exist. As a matter of fact, the sooner the Palestinians and hostile Arab States acknowledge that Israel does in fact exist in the Middle East and that she's not going anywhere, the sooner there could be peace.

Israel is a fact of life and many people know no other home than Israel.
For that reason, I don't want Israel destroyed or even attacked but I do want to see the '67 borders restored as they should be under international law.
However, we now have the news of Israel building yet more illegal settlements in the occupied lands so attack is inevitable.

 

[Indofred]

Indofred, et al,

I thank you for the straight forward way in which you approach the interrogatives.

In an attempt to make the dialog manageable, the Asperger's in me says: Start with Issue #1.


(PREFACE)

The response you gave answers the question, What Kind of State? But it doesn't truly answer if there "should be a state." Of course, clearly the inference here is that you don't agree with that either.

There is no question that Arab and Zionist Leadership understood what the intentions were of each other.

The Zionist wanted a home where they could be safe. Were both parties wrong?

Most Respectfully,
R

How polite.

Should there be a state - no.

I firmly believe the state of Israel should never have come into existence as it's been nothing but the cause of death, suffering and misery.

The Zionists were wrong as the violent action to create the country was guaranteed problems and expand more extreme actions amongst displaced people.

Time has pretty much proven that.

However, that doesn't mean I don't think Jews have no right to live in that area.
As far as I'm concerned - had there been no Israel and immigration had been slower; I believe all could have lived together in peace.
Sadly, there was sudden mass immigration and a violent creation of a country, starting with terrorist attacks by the new, Jewish immigrants.
Again - historical fact and undisputed but one side wants it forgotten.

Has those events not come to pass; there would be no middle east situation as we see today.

As for safe - hardly.
All the more extreme elements want Israel gone and that war, should it ever happen, will kill thousands on both sides, regardless of who wins.
Hardly safe as it will happen sooner or later.

I wonder if Fred, the good Muslim convert, would ever say that Pakistan should never have been carved out of India. Why did the Muslims have to have their own country? Was it really that difficult for them to get along with the Hindus. When you compare Israel to Pakistan, you don't see the same things you see happen in Pakistan where people are suicide bombed and car bombed because of their religious beliefs, their houses of worship destroyed as well as being thrown in jail rotting away because of some alleged blasphemy. Maybe Fred could have some sympathy for the Shiites who are moving to Australia because of what Fred's Sunni brethren are doing to them. And we have to remember that the Ahmadis have said that the only place they feel safe is in America. After all, Fred must remember the time his brethren blew up two Ahmadi mosques where dozens of people were killed and dozens more injured. Strange how the Muslims around the world have it in for Israel and are so quiet about what their fellow Muslims are doing to innocent others.

I condemn all violence against innocents.
Yes, that does include violence against someone because they believe in something different to the belief structure of the attacker.

I also condemn collective punishment against a whole people, as we see with Israeli government mass murder in Gaza, because some of their number are daft enough to fire ineffective rockets into Israel.
Whilst I'm at it, I condemn Israel's illegal blockade of Gaza and their clear attempt to drive the people out by starvation.

 

[Roudy]

How polite.

Should there be a state - no.

I firmly believe the state of Israel should never have come into existence as it's been nothing but the cause of death, suffering and misery.

The Zionists were wrong as the violent action to create the country was guaranteed problems and expand more extreme actions amongst displaced people.

Time has pretty much proven that.

However, that doesn't mean I don't think Jews have no right to live in that area.
As far as I'm concerned - had there been no Israel and immigration had been slower; I believe all could have lived together in peace.
Sadly, there was sudden mass immigration and a violent creation of a country, starting with terrorist attacks by the new, Jewish immigrants.
Again - historical fact and undisputed but one side wants it forgotten.

Has those events not come to pass; there would be no middle east situation as we see today.

As for safe - hardly.
All the more extreme elements want Israel gone and that war, should it ever happen, will kill thousands on both sides, regardless of who wins.
Hardly safe as it will happen sooner or later.

Spoken like a true Jihadist. This is Arab propaganda at its best folks.

People like you who always question the justification of Israels existence need to stop bitching about the fact that Israel DOES exist. As a matter of fact, the sooner the Palestinians and hostile Arab States acknowledge that Israel does in fact exist in the Middle East and that she's not going anywhere, the sooner there could be peace.

Israel is a fact of life and many people know no other home than Israel.
For that reason, I don't want Israel destroyed or even attacked but I do want to see the '67 borders restored as they should be under international law.
However, we now have the news of Israel building yet more illegal settlements in the occupied lands so attack is inevitable.

Kiss the 67 orders goodbye Freddy, that will never happen. There's a lot of upheaval going on in the Middle East now. Maybe the Palestinians will get lucky and get shoved up the kazoo of one of these collapsed Muslim states. Short of that, its only a matter of time that Israel will be annexing the West Bank and calling it by its true name for thousands of years, Judeah and Samaria. Now repeat after me: praise to the Allah.

 

[Indofred]

Kiss the 67 orders goodbye Freddy, that will never happen. There's a lot of upheaval going on in the Middle East now. Maybe the Palestinians will get lucky and get shoved up the kazoo of one of these collapsed Muslim states. Short of that, its only a matter of time that Israel will be annexing the West Bank and calling it by its true name for thousands of years, Judeah and Samaria. Now repeat after me: praise to the Allah.

This is why there will eventually be another major war in the region.
Extremist hate speech will ensure death, destruction and misery for a long time to come.

 

[toastman]

How polite.

Should there be a state - no.

I firmly believe the state of Israel should never have come into existence as it's been nothing but the cause of death, suffering and misery.

The Zionists were wrong as the violent action to create the country was guaranteed problems and expand more extreme actions amongst displaced people.

Time has pretty much proven that.

However, that doesn't mean I don't think Jews have no right to live in that area.
As far as I'm concerned - had there been no Israel and immigration had been slower; I believe all could have lived together in peace.
Sadly, there was sudden mass immigration and a violent creation of a country, starting with terrorist attacks by the new, Jewish immigrants.
Again - historical fact and undisputed but one side wants it forgotten.

Has those events not come to pass; there would be no middle east situation as we see today.

As for safe - hardly.
All the more extreme elements want Israel gone and that war, should it ever happen, will kill thousands on both sides, regardless of who wins.
Hardly safe as it will happen sooner or later.

Spoken like a true Jihadist. This is Arab propaganda at its best folks.

People like you who always question the justification of Israels existence need to stop bitching about the fact that Israel DOES exist. As a matter of fact, the sooner the Palestinians and hostile Arab States acknowledge that Israel does in fact exist in the Middle East and that she's not going anywhere, the sooner there could be peace.

Israel is a fact of life and many people know no other home than Israel.
For that reason, I don't want Israel destroyed or even attacked but I do want to see the '67 borders restored as they should be under international law.
However, we now have the news of Israel building yet more illegal settlements in the occupied lands so attack is inevitable.

You are under the assumption that Israel wouldn't be attacked if they hadn't built those settlements. Those who attack Israel also find some sort of justification. Even if there were no settlements, the enemies of Israel would find something else to complain about and some other bullshit reason to attack them.

 

[Coyote]

Indofred, et al,

I thank you for the straight forward way in which you approach the interrogatives.

In an attempt to make the dialog manageable, the Asperger's in me says: Start with Issue #1.


(PREFACE)

The response you gave answers the question, What Kind of State? But it doesn't truly answer if there "should be a state." Of course, clearly the inference here is that you don't agree with that either.

There is no question that Arab and Zionist Leadership understood what the intentions were of each other.

The Zionist wanted a home where they could be safe. Were both parties wrong?

Most Respectfully,
R

How polite.

Should there be a state - no.

I firmly believe the state of Israel should never have come into existence as it's been nothing but the cause of death, suffering and misery.

The Zionists were wrong as the violent action to create the country was guaranteed problems and expand more extreme actions amongst displaced people.

Time has pretty much proven that.

However, that doesn't mean I don't think Jews have no right to live in that area.
As far as I'm concerned - had there been no Israel and immigration had been slower; I believe all could have lived together in peace.
Sadly, there was sudden mass immigration and a violent creation of a country, starting with terrorist attacks by the new, Jewish immigrants.
Again - historical fact and undisputed but one side wants it forgotten.

Has those events not come to pass; there would be no middle east situation as we see today.

As for safe - hardly.
All the more extreme elements want Israel gone and that war, should it ever happen, will kill thousands on both sides, regardless of who wins.
Hardly safe as it will happen sooner or later.

I wonder if Fred, the good Muslim convert, would ever say that Pakistan should never have been carved out of India. Why did the Muslims have to have their own country? Was it really that difficult for them to get along with the Hindus. When you compare Israel to Pakistan, you don't see the same things you see happen in Pakistan where people are suicide bombed and car bombed because of their religious beliefs, their houses of worship destroyed as well as being thrown in jail rotting away because of some alleged blasphemy. Maybe Fred could have some sympathy for the Shiites who are moving to Australia because of what Fred's Sunni brethren are doing to them. And we have to remember that the Ahmadis have said that the only place they feel safe is in America. After all, Fred must remember the time his brethren blew up two Ahmadi mosques where dozens of people were killed and dozens more injured. Strange how the Muslims around the world have it in for Israel and are so quiet about what their fellow Muslims are doing to innocent others.

Maybe Hoss can remember that this is the IP forum, not Islam-around-the-world forum and get back on topic.

As a reminder - there is a General Middle East forum where you can post these important facts.