A gun made for women? European women don't bother watching, you aren't allowed to protect yourselves anyway....

[M14 Shooter]

I disagree

And yet, you know you cannot demonstrate otherwise.

 

[Vagabond63]

And yet, you know you cannot demonstrate otherwise.

I have done, to my satisfaction. But I've made my case and I'll leave it to the more rational gun owners out there, to decide for themselves. (66% of American gun owners already want stricter gun control, fun fact.)

Wonder how many smokers denied the statistics because they thought everything was a post hoc fallacy?

 

[M14 Shooter]

What story?

The difference in gun-related violent crime rates between whiles and blacks in the US.
The rates with black offenders and black victims are all considerably higher than the rates with white offenders and white victims.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Maybe the French are more civilised.

And thus, you defeat your own argument.
Well done.

 

[Vagabond63]

The difference in gun-related violent crime rates between whiles and blacks in the US.
The rates with black offenders and black victims are all considerably higher than the rates with white offenders and white victims.

Why?

 

[Vagabond63]

And thus, you defeat your own argument.
Well done.

More civilised because they have gun control. My argument stands.

 

[M14 Shooter]

More civilised because they have gun control. My argument stands.

You proved that France has pretty lax gun control laws -- so that can't be it.
So., again:
Why is it gun-related violent crime is so much lower in France than it is here?

 

[2aguy]

True, gun crazies make things up all the time.
Here's a post from another 2aguy thread, hopefully the links still work that describe apparently commonplace incidents throughout America. I'm sure a Google search can come up with more.

Lengthy prison term imposed in shooting case linked to stolen beanie

In the UK, no one involved would have been shot over an argument about a hat, of all things. But hey, that’s what happens if everyone has a gun…

Shooting spree in Denver and Lakewood leaves five dead including shooter; officer wounded

To be fair, something like this happens once every decade or so, always with legally owned firearms, unlike in the USA where you seem to get such incidents every week.

2 Men Killed In Shooting Outside Club Risqué In Philadelphia's Wissinoming Section, Police Say

Well, punch ups outside nightclubs are a relatively common event at weekends here in the UK, but no one ever gets shot.

Daughters injured in quadruple shooting that left mom dead say they want justice

Oh dear, another “responsible” gun owner gets upset.

'A crime of opportunity': More guns than ever were stolen from vehicles in Nashville in 2021

More “responsible” gun owners behaving irresponsibly; and that’s only in one city. We could do a Lott or Kleck and extrapolate these numbers across the USA which would give us between 402,880 and 24,544,205 guns stolen from responsible gun owners in the US in 2021. Wow, so many irresponsible “responsible” gun owners! Of course, we also need to look at thefts from homes and gun stores…

New York personal trainer arrested and accused of shooting his parents on Christmas


California man accused of fatally shooting his grandmother, father's girlfriend on Christmas

Oh dear, family arguments at Christmas, we have lots of those in the UK every year, but no one gets shot, I wonder why?

911 caller says husband shot 16-year-old daughter because he thought she was an intruder

Oh dear, that’ll teach her to come home late.

No fries with that: Ogden man charged in gun threat at fast-food drive-up

Oh dear, in the UK we occasionally can’t make up our minds what to order, but it’s never life threatening.

Employee Charged With Murder After Shooting Suspected Thief: Police

But, but, it’s a “good guy” with a gun… a “responsible” gun owner, at least he was until he opened fire. This is what can happen if you give guns to everybody.

Shotgun expert 'only wanted to scare son-in-law'

Oh, those fathers-in-law! Another “responsible gun owner” behaving irresponsibly.

Police: Pregnant librarian killed in alleged road rage shooting was aggressor

Aggressor or not, this wouldn’t have happened in the UK, because guns aren’t so easy to get hold of.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/nation-world/national/article256082512.html

In the UK working in a Pizza restaurant isn’t normally a life threatening experience… unless the joint has a low hygiene rating.

This is just a quick trawl through the internet involving “responsible” American gun owners, “good guys with guns” as the NRA calls them. I suspect I could find a lot more if I can be bothered.

If you want to own a gun, fine by me. If you want everyone to own a gun in America, that’s also fine by me. It’s your country after all. But please, stop trying to tell me banning handguns hasn’t worked over here, because I can get involved in an argument, buy a pizza, go for a walk, even have a fight, with absolute certainty that I won’t get shot.

And yet.....in 6 years, from 1939-1945 your governments murdered 15 million innocent men, women and children, all across gun controlled Euorpe...unlike the vast majority of murder victims in the U.S. these people were innocent citizens, having committed no crime, engaged in no criminal activity...

Did they steal beani babies before your governments murdered them?

Did the guy working in the pizza place who was murdered by your governments deserve that?

You guys took away their guns on the promise they would be safer. You did this in the 1920s.....by the beginning of the 1930s, the murders began....and they only stopped because Americans with guns stopped them...

If you look at American gun murder...and we even give you double the normal rate....20,000 people murdered a year......over 246 years that doesn't come close to the number of people you guys murdered in just 6 years...

But you don't want to count those victims......because they show that unarmed people are in danger from their own governments...more so than from owning guns for self defense....

And as you always point out, the vast majority of all shootings in the United States are criminals shooting other criminals......

350 million Americans.

600 million guns.

Over 21.5 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

On average about 10,000 gun murders a year, in years when the democrat party isn't destroying local police forces and releasing violent gun criminals over and over again.....

The vast majority of those victims are criminals, and the family, friends and associates of criminals...

On the other end, the end you don't want to acknowledge....Americans use their legal guns 1.2 million times a year to stop rapes, robberies, murders, stabbings, mass public shootings.......according to the Centers for Disease Control.....or 1.5 million times a year according to the Department of Justice research....

Now

 

[M14 Shooter]

Why?

Beats me -- all I can say is it -doesn't- have anything to do with gun control.

 

[Vagabond63]

And another analysis that backs my position.

U.S. Gun Policy: Global Comparisons

The United States is witnessing another year of record gun violence, raising domestic and international scrutiny of its comparatively loose gun laws and placing pressure on lawmakers to enact meaning…

www.cfr.org

 

[Vagabond63]

Beats me -- all I can say is it -doesn't- have anything to do with gun control.

Prove it.

 

[westwall]

Oh, OK, a well planned terrorist attack can be prevented by a granny with a gun, eh? Fun fact,

"With nearly 20 guns for every 100 people, the French rank high on the European gun ownership ranking. What’s more, it is relatively straightforward to obtain a gun license in France. You simply need to tick these boxes;

• Be older than 18 (or over 12 with permission for shooting sports);
• Be affiliated with a shooting range;
• Have followed at least three shooting sessions with an instructor;
• Submit a medical certificate stating you are physically and mentally fit"

10 Countries With The Easiest Gun Laws In The World

The United States of America is the best/easiest place in the world to own guns. Period. It’s the only place

www.liveandinvestoverseas.com

130 dead. Not one could defend themselves. Hell the COPS couldn't defend themselves.

Gun control makes crime easier.

So simple a stupid person can understand.

But you are far beyond stupid.

 

[M14 Shooter]

And another analysis that backs my position.

More post hoc nonsense - nothing here demonstrates the necessary relationship between the gun control laws in those countries and their lower rates of gun violence.

 

[westwall]

And another analysis that backs my position.

U.S. Gun Policy: Global Comparisons

The United States is witnessing another year of record gun violence, raising domestic and international scrutiny of its comparatively loose gun laws and placing pressure on lawmakers to enact meaning…

www.cfr.org

Fake bullshit put out by an anti gun group. They ignore real facts that refute their propaganda, and morons, like you lap it up.

 

[2aguy]

Oh, OK, a well planned terrorist attack can be prevented by a granny with a gun, eh? Fun fact,

"With nearly 20 guns for every 100 people, the French rank high on the European gun ownership ranking. What’s more, it is relatively straightforward to obtain a gun license in France. You simply need to tick these boxes;

• Be older than 18 (or over 12 with permission for shooting sports);
• Be affiliated with a shooting range;
• Have followed at least three shooting sessions with an instructor;
• Submit a medical certificate stating you are physically and mentally fit"

10 Countries With The Easiest Gun Laws In The World

The United States of America is the best/easiest place in the world to own guns. Period. It’s the only place

www.liveandinvestoverseas.com

The muslim terrorists who murdered 130 people in the worst terrorist attack in both European and American history.......were on government terrorist watch lists.....most were also criminals, banned from any form of gun ownership.......

The weapons used were not civilian weapons...they were fully automatic military weapons banned on the Continent, in France and in Paris....

Yet the criminals were able to get them easily...

Gun control only limits law abiding citizens.....you can't even control them on your island....

29 out of 43 English and Welsh police forces have seen increases in gun crime during that same period.



Eight of those forces reported a doubling of the number of offences involving firearms, and one force saw levels six times higher than a decade ago.

---------

County lines​

Peter Squires, professor of criminology at the University of Brighton, told The Guardian that so-called “county lines” – a form of criminal exploitation where urban gangs persuade young people to take drugs to rural areas of the country – are probably behind the rise in gun crime in places such as Sussex, Kent and Cheshire.

-----

Gun smuggling​

The prevalence of firearm offences is also partially to do with gun smuggling, experts say. Firearms can now be hired for as little as £100 around the UK and can be acquired in “less than a day”, reported the i news site’s investigations correspondent Dean Kirby.



According to Dr Robert Hesketh, a criminology expert at Liverpool John Moores University, it is “relatively easy” to get hold of a firearm in many cities.

“A MAC-10 will cost about £3,000, an MP5 £3,000,” Hesketh said. “These are automatic weapons. Another gun doing the rounds a few years ago and possibly now was a Desert Eagle, for about £500. It isn’t hard, put it that way.”

There is also an option to rent a weapon – with criminals borrowing firearms for short periods. “You can get one possibly for £100 to £150 if you know the right people,” Hesketh said.



While it is working to cut off supplies to the UK, the National Crime Agency has seen a “gradual increase” in the use of fully automatic weapons.

Some of the weapons used are deactivated or blank-firing devices, which are being bought in eastern Europe, where they are legal and unrestricted. They are then illegally reactivated by criminals before being transported to the UK, Kirby said.

Guns can also be bought on the dark web, and stolen, lawfully bought guns have also ended up being used in shootings. On the messaging app Telegram The Sunday Times found firearms advertised for sale from £400.

In 2019/20, the National Crime Agency seized 552 illegal firearms in the UK and abroad. The UK Border Force, meanwhile, picked up 2,600 lethal and non-lethal firearms in the year to September 2020.



Why is gun crime on the rise? | The Week UK



=================





Gun offences had been increasing since roughly 2015 across England and Wales, according to figures from the Office of National Statistics. But then came the pandemic.

Are gun crimes on the rise again?​

Dr Robert Hesketh, from the School of Justice Studies at Liverpool John Moores University, thinks the incidents will increase because of the cost of living crisis.

"People are getting desperate and desperate times call for desperate measures," he said.



Dr Hesketh disagreed with senior police officers, who say it is hard for a criminal to buy a gun in Britain.



The academic instead suggested in Liverpool a cheap firearm can be obtained for as little as £150 with a bit of asking around.



Gun crime is closely linked with drug dealing. At the top of the criminal tree drug gangs arrange imports to sell in the UK.

The retail arm of the market has become dominated by a relatively new business model.

County lines gangs, using dedicated mobile phones for customers to make orders, shift drugs around the country and have been blamed for increasing the risk of violence involving guns and knives.

Liverpool is an important part of the UK's drug gang infrastructure.

http://[URL='https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-62667546[/URL]']https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-62667546

[/URL]





Police struggle to stop flood of firearms into UK


Police and border officials are struggling to stop a rising supply of illegal firearms being smuggled into Britain, a senior police chief has warned.

Chief constable Andy Cooke, the national police lead for serious and organised crime, said law enforcement had seen an increased supply of guns over the past year, and feared that it would continue in 2019

The Guardian has learned that the situation is so serious that the National Crime Agency has taken the rare step of using its legal powers to direct every single police force to step up the fight against illegal guns.

The NCA has used tasking powers to direct greater intelligence about firearms to be gathered by all 43 forces in England and Wales.

Another senior law enforcement official said that “new and clean” weapons were now being used in the majority of shootings, as opposed to guns once being so difficult to obtain that they would be “rented out” to be used in multiple crimes.

Cooke, the Merseyside chief constable, told the Guardian: “We in law enforcement expect the rise in new firearms to continue. We are doing all we can. We are not in a position to stop it anytime soon.

“Law enforcement is more joined up now than before, but the scale of the problem is such that despite a number of excellent firearms seizures, I expect the rise in supply to be a continuing issue.”

The increasing supply of guns belies problems with UK border security and innovations by organised crime gangs. Smugglers have increasingly found new ways and innovative routes to get guns past border defences.


Cooke said that the dynamics of the streets of British cities had changed and that criminals were more willing to use guns: “If they bring them in people will buy them. It’s a kudos thing for organised criminals.”

Simon Brough, head of firearms at the NCA, said: “The majority of guns being used are new, clean firearms ... which indicates a relatively fluid supply.”

He said shotguns were 40% of the total, with an increase in burglaries to try and steal them.

Handguns are the next biggest category, most often smuggled in from overseas, with ferry ports such as Dover being a popular entry point into the UK for organised crime groups:




==========

9/1/22

Concerns are now being raised about the growing availability of firearms in parts of the north of England and the Midlands as some police forces are struggling to tackle rising gun crime with fewer officers than they had a decade ago.


The sharpest rise is in the north-east, where gun crime has more than tripled from an average of 91 firearms offences a year between 2009 and 2012, to 294 a year between 2019 and 2022.
In the Cleveland police area, firearms offences have risen almost sixfold, from a yearly average of 22 to 127. Durham, Sussex, Lincolnshire, Northumbria, South Yorkshire, Norfolk and Kent police have all seen numbers more than double in 10 years.
While big cities dominate the headlines, the rise in gun crime in places such as Sussex, Kent and Cheshire is probably down to what has become known as “county lines” – urban organised crime groups pushing out into rural areas – said Peter Squires, a gun crime expert and professor of criminology at the University of Brighton.

Gun crime rising in two-thirds of police force areas in England and Wales
=========

Gun crime rising in two-thirds of police force areas in England and Wales


10/13/21



Powerful automatic guns are being smuggled into Britain for use by organised crime gangs.

The National Crime Agency and police seized weapons in raids on the homes of previously untouchable “Mr Big”s after receiving intelligence from European detectives who broke an encrypted phone network used by drug dealers and gun traffickers.

Gangs bring rapid‑fire guns to Britain’s streets

 

[2aguy]

Looks like Scientific American agrees with me,
"As we previously reported, in 2015, assaults with a firearm were 6.8 times more common in states that had the most guns, compared to the least. More than a dozen studies have revealed that if you had a gun at home, you were twice as likely to be killed as someone who didn’t. Research from the Harvard School of Public Health tells us that states with higher gun ownership levels have higher rates of homicide. Data even tells us that where gun shops or gun dealers open for business, killings go up. These are but a few of the studies that show the exact opposite of what progun politicians are saying. The science must not be ignored."

The Science Is Clear: Gun Control Saves Lives

By enacting simple laws that make guns safer and harder to get, we can prevent killings like the ones in Uvalde and Buffalo

www.scientificamerican.com

Scientific American can no longer tell us what is a "woman." They are no longer a "Science," journal, they are a left wing propaganda rag.....

 

[Vagabond63]

You proved that France has pretty lax gun control laws

You really need to look up French gun laws. I quoted an American publication, that oversimplified the case.

 

[2aguy]

And a cat amongst the pigeons...

FACT SHEET: California’s Gun Safety Policies Save Lives, Provide Model for a Nation Seeking Solutions | Governor of California

SACRAMENTO – With the country still reeling from the mass shooting in Uvalde, Texas that left 19 children and two teachers dead last week, California’s nation-leading record on gun safety provides a…

www.gov.ca.gov

Moron...California has had more mass public shootings than Texas...Texas has gun stores on every corner and concealed and open carry of guns, as well as being a huge border state right next to the drug cartel nation of Mexico.......

You moron....

As of July 2022, California had the most mass shootings in the United States, with 23 total shootings since 1982. The source defines a mass shooting as a shooting where four or more people were killed.

Mass shootings in the U.S. by state 1982-2023 | Statista

As of December 2023, California had the most mass shootings in the United States, with 26 total shootings since 1982.

www.statista.com

 

[2aguy]

You really need to look up French gun laws. I quoted an American publication, that oversimplified the case.

Hey....tell us......do French gun laws allow convicted criminals and individuals on government terrorist watch lists to buy illegal, fully automatic military rifles? What about grenades?

Can you point to us where in French law it allows criminals and suspected terrorists to buy, own and carry fully automatic military rifles?

I am not sure you know what you are talking about.....

 

[2aguy]

You really need to look up French gun laws. I quoted an American publication, that oversimplified the case.

You mean like these......

France....

Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

The arsenal of weapons deployed by the eight attackers who terrorised Paris on Friday night underlined France’s gun control problems and raised the spectre of further attacks.

The country has extremely strict weapons laws, but Europe’s open borders and growing trade in illegal weapons means assault rifles are relatively easy to come by on the black market.


===============

A police investigation is underway after two people were shot dead, and a third burnt alive on Saturday evening in the southern French city of Marseille. It's the fourth death linked to gun violence this week, a phenomenon which the Mayor Benoît Payan says is out of control.

"In Marseille, you can buy a Kalachnikov as easy as buying a pain au chocolat," he said.

"This has to stop, and the Interior Minister, who is aware of the problem, must make it a key objective."
----
"If people are being killed by Kalachnikov rifles, it's because they are too easily sold throughout the city."



Three dead in Marseille shootout: 'guns are too easy to buy' says mayor

Reports of 'heavy gunfire' on the streets of French city of Nimes | Daily Mail Online

Machine-gun shots have been heard on the streets of a French city this evening as it was claimed a 'shootout' took place between rival gangs.

Repeated 'heavy gunfire' bursts were let off in the city of Nimes in southern France after armed men were seen in the area.

Social media videos showed several people running through the street as shots rang out at around 8.30pm.

Initial reports suggested the shooting could have been linked to gangs operating in the area.

Residents in a suburb of Pissevin district in the city claimed gang members shot at a building occupied by a rival group.


Reports of gunfire in the district have been on the rise in recent months, according to local media