A Majority of people polled want the Supremes to rule based upon what the Constitution means today.

[Doc1]

The FF are dead. They will remain dead. The Living Document will continue, having escaped the dead slave owners.

Sure thing, except you will never get an amendment passed in your lifetime allowing you Progressives do what you want to do.

 

[Doc1]

There is some good news, and some bad news in that by the way. First the link. Pew: Majority now says SCOTUS should base rulings on what Constitution means "in current times," not originally

For years now people like myself have been pointing out that the asinine arguments of the anti-gunners that the Second Amendment applies to the National Guard, what they see as the “Militia” is wrong. We have been pointing out with links, and articles, that the Militia at the time the Constitution was Ratified, was every single person. Ok, actually it was every able bodied free man. But that is because Women and Slaves were not considered for the right. A belief fixed by Amendments later on.

Well the good news is that people are obviously learning. The bad news, they still don’t want those rules to apply to Supreme Court Decisions. Instead, they want the Constitution viewed by what the words mean TODAY.

This means that the education is working. Those of us who keep trying to educate our fellow citizens should feel gratified that our efforts are showing results. Now, if we could only explain to them that the words used were an effort to capture an ideal, a principle intended to guide us, then we would be better off.

President Obama understood much of this. He said that the Constitution was a series of negative rights. It said what the States, the Government could not do to you, but did not say what the Government can do for you. There is no authority of the people in that change. It's a criminal act by the courts

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/arti...obamas-poor-understanding-of-the-constitution

He was right. The Consititution sets out things that may never be taken from someone, things that they may never endure at the hands of their Government. The Government may not abridge your Freedom of Speech, it may not prevent you form worshipping in your own way. Everything in there are things it can’t do.

The Constitution was never intended to limit the citizenry, but to limit the power of the Government. Those are the Negative Rights that Obama talked about. The Government can’t just walk in and search your home, and go through your stuff on a whim. It must have a Warrant.

Every time the Supreme Court rules that there are exceptions, those negative rights get weaker. Those exceptions should be in the most extreme circumstances, never the standard by which we remove even more of your rights.

I feel good that people are learning the truth about the history of the Constitution. Now it is time to start explaining why the Constitution is set up the way it is. If you want a more modern reading of a right, then we have a process for that. It is called an Amendment. Those are very hard to get because they should be. It should be hard to place restrictions on the people. It should be hard to take away their rights. It should be damned near impossible to remove a right from an individual in this nation.

More people are learning what, now it is time to teach them why.

It completely depends how you ask the question.

The Constitution was written and ratified by the States. And there were two methods to modify the Constitution. Constitutional Convention and 2/3, 2/3 and 3/4. That was how it was considered the people consented. It wasn't majority vote. Power divided is power checked. For all those governments to ratify it, it had to have broad support of the people. Consent of the governed.

When the Courts change the Constitution, what is the authority behind that change? It isn't the authority of the people because 5 people decided to change the Constitution. Not a super majority of State governments

It was written the way it was written for a reason, there is a prescribed way to change and that way limits what people like Jake can get away with.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

OK, you are the one who is wrong on this.

Feel free to point to my mistake in the verbiage of the contract. Or you could provide the agreement to the alteration, signed by the parties to the contract. Those are the only ways to prove me wrong..

Your errors have been rebutted many times with factual, objective evidence, and you simply go to the equivalent of "nuh uh, what about you."

(1) The OP is correct about how the majority want the Constitution handled in American law.

(2) SCOTUS has made it clear that it will decide how to do that, not the far right.

Yet you can't demonstrate what in the Constitution gives the feds the right to regulate the potted tomato plant on your patio. Other than unelected lawyers says they can. Good job, commie.


.

Wow..I wonder if you actually read what you write? We, the people, decide...and we have said, over time, that the Federal govt. can do certain things..you may or may not agree, but our government governs with the permission of the governed.

Indeed, limited to the authority granted them by the Constitution. We are not a mob, but a nation of law. The governed cannot legally increase or decrease that authority, save by the amendment process, nor can the government increase its own mandated authority by its own whim.

That it has occurred in the past is not relevant.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The FF are dead. They will remain dead. The Living Document will continue, having escaped the dead slave owners.

Sure thing, except you will never get an amendment passed in your lifetime allowing you Progressives do what you want to do.

I am a gun owner. I do not think the 2dA will disappear. I do think SCOTUS will whittle away under the provisions of "weapons of war." How that will turn out, I do not know and neither does anyone else.

 

[sakinago]

The problem is that the context has changed, and the actual words do not apply. A well-regulated militia is no longer necessary for the security of a free state. We have a secure free state, guaranteed by a permanent standing army. This something the Founding Father never anticipated.

Therefore, it would not be entirely specious for the USSC to declare the entire Second Amendment void, because it no longer applies.

Not that I expect that to happen anytime soon.

bullshit. times msy change its true. people do not.

leave it alone.

People do change, of course.

Do they? All the major empires throughout history go through all the same stages, patterns, trends, during their rise; go through all the same stages, patterns, trends, during their peak; and go through the same stages, pattern, trends, during their downfall. All within the same amount of time which is around 250 years, plus or minus 50. There have been 8 different holocausts throughout history. There are more slaves today than at any time during human history. A coup attempt of a major 1st world country just happened 2 years ago. And now that once democratic country is on its way to becoming a dictatorship (if it’s not already there).

The most popular holocaust happened in the 1940’s, a little over a decade later a psychologist proved that around 80 percent of Americans would shock someone to death just because a guy in a lab coat told them to do it. And just this year, a televised experiment was conducted through Netflix’s The Push, where 3 out of 4 normal decent people just like you and me would push a guy off a ledge to what they believe is his death.

This poem was written shortly after WW1, and then was followed by WW2.



The Gods of the Copybook Headings




AS I PASS through my incarnations in every age and race,
I make my proper prostrations to the Gods of the Market Place.
Peering through reverent fingers I watch them flourish and fall,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings, I notice, outlast them all.

We were living in trees when they met us. They showed us each in turn
That Water would certainly wet us, as Fire would certainly burn:
But we found them lacking in Uplift, Vision and Breadth of Mind,
So we left them to teach the Gorillas while we followed the March of Mankind.

We moved as the Spirit listed. They never altered their pace,
Being neither cloud nor wind-borne like the Gods of the Market Place,
But they always caught up with our progress, and presently word would come
That a tribe had been wiped off its icefield, or the lights had gone out in Rome.

With the Hopes that our World is built on they were utterly out of touch,
They denied that the Moon was Stilton; they denied she was even Dutch;
They denied that Wishes were Horses; they denied that a Pig had Wings;
So we worshipped the Gods of the Market Who promised these beautiful things.

When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know."

On the first Feminian Sandstones we were promised the Fuller Life
(Which started by loving our neighbour and ended by loving his wife)
Till our women had no more children and the men lost reason and faith,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "The Wages of Sin is Death."

In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all,
By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul;
But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "If you don't work you die."

Then the Gods of the Market tumbled, and their smooth-tongued wizards withdrew
And the hearts of the meanest were humbled and began to believe it was true
That All is not Gold that Glitters, and Two and Two make Four
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings limped up to explain it once more.

As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man
There are only four things certain since Social Progress began.
That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,
And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;

And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn,
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!

 

[sakinago]

You can have your opinion, but amendments and SCOTUS have the final word.

No the constitution is the final word. And the SCOTUS is subject to the constitution. If justice Kennedy retires and trump appoints a Ted Cruz type...I’m sure you’re going to be changing your tone about the scotus real fast.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

The problem is that the context has changed, and the actual words do not apply. A well-regulated militia is no longer necessary for the security of a free state. We have a secure free state, guaranteed by a permanent standing army. This something the Founding Father never anticipated.

Therefore, it would not be entirely specious for the USSC to declare the entire Second Amendment void, because it no longer applies.

Not that I expect that to happen anytime soon.

bullshit. times msy change its true. people do not.

leave it alone.

People do change, of course.

Do they? All the major empires throughout history go through all the same stages, patterns, trends, during their rise; go through all the same stages, patterns, trends, during their peak; and go through the same stages, pattern, trends, during their downfall. All within the same amount of time which is around 250 years, plus or minus 50. There have been 8 different holocausts throughout history. There are more slaves today than at any time during human history. A coup attempt of a major 1st world country just happened 2 years ago. And now that once democratic country is on its way to becoming a dictatorship (if it’s not already there).

The most popular holocaust happened in the 1940’s, a little over a decade later a psychologist proved that around 80 percent of Americans would shock someone to death just because a guy in a lab coat told them to do it. And just this year, a televised experiment was conducted through Netflix’s The Push, where 3 out of 4 normal decent people just like you and me would push a guy off a ledge to what they believe is his death.

This poem was written shortly after WW1, and then was followed by WW2.



The Gods of the Copybook Headings




AS I PASS through my incarnations in every age and race,
I make my proper prostrations to the Gods of the Market Place.
Peering through reverent fingers I watch them flourish and fall,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings, I notice, outlast them all.

We were living in trees when they met us. They showed us each in turn
That Water would certainly wet us, as Fire would certainly burn:
But we found them lacking in Uplift, Vision and Breadth of Mind,
So we left them to teach the Gorillas while we followed the March of Mankind.

We moved as the Spirit listed. They never altered their pace,
Being neither cloud nor wind-borne like the Gods of the Market Place,
But they always caught up with our progress, and presently word would come
That a tribe had been wiped off its icefield, or the lights had gone out in Rome.

With the Hopes that our World is built on they were utterly out of touch,
They denied that the Moon was Stilton; they denied she was even Dutch;
They denied that Wishes were Horses; they denied that a Pig had Wings;
So we worshipped the Gods of the Market Who promised these beautiful things.

When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know."

On the first Feminian Sandstones we were promised the Fuller Life
(Which started by loving our neighbour and ended by loving his wife)
Till our women had no more children and the men lost reason and faith,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "The Wages of Sin is Death."

In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all,
By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul;
But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "If you don't work you die."

Then the Gods of the Market tumbled, and their smooth-tongued wizards withdrew
And the hearts of the meanest were humbled and began to believe it was true
That All is not Gold that Glitters, and Two and Two make Four
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings limped up to explain it once more.

As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man
There are only four things certain since Social Progress began.
That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,
And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;

And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn,
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!

Nice poem.

All in All...not a bad, nor entirely inaccurate, portrayal of Western history. I would like to point out the exceptions, in a Global context, if I may...Egypt lasted millennia--as did China and India. The idea that cultures and countries have expiration dates is pretty old. Given all the new variables--it's too soon to prognosticate, IMO.

I'd like to think that we may outgrow the tribalism that gave birth to nationalism--but it's going to be a long slog..if it happens at all. Resistance is fierce...and will be for generations. The free dissemination of knowledge via the internet is a great first step---which is why many are invested in controlling the flow of said information.

A lot of blood and tears in our futures....a worldwide disaster could be the only way to unite humanity...but it's just as likely that the more fortunate will close up...and leave the rest of mankind to rot.

Many here--- would favor the 2nd option.

 

[JoeMoma]

There is some good news, and some bad news in that by the way. First the link. Pew: Majority now says SCOTUS should base rulings on what Constitution means "in current times," not originally

For years now people like myself have been pointing out that the asinine arguments of the anti-gunners that the Second Amendment applies to the National Guard, what they see as the “Militia” is wrong. We have been pointing out with links, and articles, that the Militia at the time the Constitution was Ratified, was every single person. Ok, actually it was every able bodied free man. But that is because Women and Slaves were not considered for the right. A belief fixed by Amendments later on.

Well the good news is that people are obviously learning. The bad news, they still don’t want those rules to apply to Supreme Court Decisions. Instead, they want the Constitution viewed by what the words mean TODAY.

This means that the education is working. Those of us who keep trying to educate our fellow citizens should feel gratified that our efforts are showing results. Now, if we could only explain to them that the words used were an effort to capture an ideal, a principle intended to guide us, then we would be better off.

President Obama understood much of this. He said that the Constitution was a series of negative rights. It said what the States, the Government could not do to you, but did not say what the Government can do for you.

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/arti...obamas-poor-understanding-of-the-constitution

He was right. The Consititution sets out things that may never be taken from someone, things that they may never endure at the hands of their Government. The Government may not abridge your Freedom of Speech, it may not prevent you form worshipping in your own way. Everything in there are things it can’t do.

The Constitution was never intended to limit the citizenry, but to limit the power of the Government. Those are the Negative Rights that Obama talked about. The Government can’t just walk in and search your home, and go through your stuff on a whim. It must have a Warrant.

Every time the Supreme Court rules that there are exceptions, those negative rights get weaker. Those exceptions should be in the most extreme circumstances, never the standard by which we remove even more of your rights.

I feel good that people are learning the truth about the history of the Constitution. Now it is time to start explaining why the Constitution is set up the way it is. If you want a more modern reading of a right, then we have a process for that. It is called an Amendment. Those are very hard to get because they should be. It should be hard to place restrictions on the people. It should be hard to take away their rights. It should be damned near impossible to remove a right from an individual in this nation.

More people are learning what, now it is time to teach them why.

Guess there is no need to have a process to amend the constitution any longer. People can simply change their minds about what the constitution means. Well actually, nine judges get to decide what the constitution means, even when they know it’s not what the writers originally intended.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

You can have your opinion, but amendments and SCOTUS have the final word.

No the constitution is the final word. And the SCOTUS is subject to the constitution. If justice Kennedy retires and trump appoints a Ted Cruz type...I’m sure you’re going to be changing your tone about the scotus real fast.

Nope...but I bet you do! After all, if a future court were to turn back the clock, they'd have to use the same mechanisms that you now condemn. Of course--that would be OK, right?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Hence the need to read it with an originalist's eye. If you change the meaning of the words from their 18th Century definitions to whatever they may be accepted as now, you change the meaning of the Constitution, and by that process is not permitted.

Yes..yes it is permitted...obviously. You may argue that it is not right...but that it is permitted..is beyond question. In most cases, the meaning of the words is not changed..but the struggle is how to apply them to real-world situations that the FF's never envisioned.

As an aside, people on the right are not above changing words meanings to support their agendas....such as the idiocy of claiming that 'well-regulated' means well armed.

Regulated means controlled..simple as that.

No Comrade, it sure doesn't.

Outfitted to regulation,

No dumb-ass..you are wrong...again..or still. You need some better spin..because that shyte is lame.

Learn to read, stupid.

A Majority of people polled want the Supremes to rule based upon what the Constitution means today.

Fucking Stalinists....

Fucking idiot! You link another lame post..to justify your current lame post! Learn to think..you poster child for Darwinist culling.

I link to my post where I provided you Constitutional scholars who explain what "well regulated" means.

That you are too stupid to grasp it is why you are a Stalinist.

 

[sakinago]

The problem is that the context has changed, and the actual words do not apply. A well-regulated militia is no longer necessary for the security of a free state. We have a secure free state, guaranteed by a permanent standing army. This something the Founding Father never anticipated.

Therefore, it would not be entirely specious for the USSC to declare the entire Second Amendment void, because it no longer applies.

Not that I expect that to happen anytime soon.

bullshit. times msy change its true. people do not.

leave it alone.

People do change, of course.

Do they? All the major empires throughout history go through all the same stages, patterns, trends, during their rise; go through all the same stages, patterns, trends, during their peak; and go through the same stages, pattern, trends, during their downfall. All within the same amount of time which is around 250 years, plus or minus 50. There have been 8 different holocausts throughout history. There are more slaves today than at any time during human history. A coup attempt of a major 1st world country just happened 2 years ago. And now that once democratic country is on its way to becoming a dictatorship (if it’s not already there).

The most popular holocaust happened in the 1940’s, a little over a decade later a psychologist proved that around 80 percent of Americans would shock someone to death just because a guy in a lab coat told them to do it. And just this year, a televised experiment was conducted through Netflix’s The Push, where 3 out of 4 normal decent people just like you and me would push a guy off a ledge to what they believe is his death.

This poem was written shortly after WW1, and then was followed by WW2.



The Gods of the Copybook Headings




AS I PASS through my incarnations in every age and race,
I make my proper prostrations to the Gods of the Market Place.
Peering through reverent fingers I watch them flourish and fall,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings, I notice, outlast them all.

We were living in trees when they met us. They showed us each in turn
That Water would certainly wet us, as Fire would certainly burn:
But we found them lacking in Uplift, Vision and Breadth of Mind,
So we left them to teach the Gorillas while we followed the March of Mankind.

We moved as the Spirit listed. They never altered their pace,
Being neither cloud nor wind-borne like the Gods of the Market Place,
But they always caught up with our progress, and presently word would come
That a tribe had been wiped off its icefield, or the lights had gone out in Rome.

With the Hopes that our World is built on they were utterly out of touch,
They denied that the Moon was Stilton; they denied she was even Dutch;
They denied that Wishes were Horses; they denied that a Pig had Wings;
So we worshipped the Gods of the Market Who promised these beautiful things.

When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know."

On the first Feminian Sandstones we were promised the Fuller Life
(Which started by loving our neighbour and ended by loving his wife)
Till our women had no more children and the men lost reason and faith,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "The Wages of Sin is Death."

In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all,
By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul;
But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "If you don't work you die."

Then the Gods of the Market tumbled, and their smooth-tongued wizards withdrew
And the hearts of the meanest were humbled and began to believe it was true
That All is not Gold that Glitters, and Two and Two make Four
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings limped up to explain it once more.

As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man
There are only four things certain since Social Progress began.
That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,
And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;

And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn,
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!

Nice poem.

All in All...not a bad, nor entirely inaccurate, portrayal of Western history. I would like to point out the exceptions, in a Global context, if I may...Egypt lasted millennia--as did China and India. The idea that cultures and countries have expiration dates is pretty old. Given all the new variables--it's too soon to prognosticate, IMO.

I'd like to think that we may outgrow the tribalism that gave birth to nationalism--but it's going to be a long slog..if it happens at all. Resistance is fierce...and will be for generations. The free dissemination of knowledge via the internet is a great first step---which is why many are invested in controlling the flow of said information.

A lot of blood and tears in our futures....a worldwide disaster could be the only way to unite humanity...but it's just as likely that the more fortunate will close up...and leave the rest of mankind to rot.

Many here--- would favor the 2nd option.

You’re confusing geographical names of areas with empires/governments. There have been A LOT of changes in areas you have referenced. Notice how Egypt isn’t ruled by Pharaohs anymore? Egypt was a Christian “country” for a long ass time. There’s multiple thousand page books on the dozens of different era’s in the region we call China. India I don’t know enough about their history, other than A the great went down there and conquered them too...but I’m sure they are not the exception to the entire timeline of rhyming change throughout human history.

 

[Uncensored2008]

So..you're saying that the FF's were Stalinists? Since they set it up that way....in our Constitution.

You really are quite stupid...please continue to demonstrate it to us all. Your fellow travelers on the right are no doubt cringing at what a poor case you are making.

My god but you're fucking stupid.

The founding fathers did not give the court the power to "interpret" the Constitution, you drooling moron. Chief Justice Marshall usurped the power under "Marbury v, Madison," you dolt.

The founding fathers, specifically Mason and Jefferson, strongly argued that the power to decide constitutionality lay with the elected representatives of the people in the house.

You are truly an uneducated fool spewing shit that you have no knowledge of.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Yes..yes it is permitted...obviously. You may argue that it is not right...but that it is permitted..is beyond question. In most cases, the meaning of the words is not changed..but the struggle is how to apply them to real-world situations that the FF's never envisioned.

As an aside, people on the right are not above changing words meanings to support their agendas....such as the idiocy of claiming that 'well-regulated' means well armed.

Regulated means controlled..simple as that.

No Comrade, it sure doesn't.

Outfitted to regulation,

No dumb-ass..you are wrong...again..or still. You need some better spin..because that shyte is lame.

Learn to read, stupid.

A Majority of people polled want the Supremes to rule based upon what the Constitution means today.

Fucking Stalinists....

Fucking idiot! You link another lame post..to justify your current lame post! Learn to think..you poster child for Darwinist culling.

I link to my post where I provided you Constitutional scholars who explain what "well regulated" means.

That you are too stupid to grasp it is why you are a Stalinist.

That you don't see that I reject your reasoning..and your cherry-picked links--and prefer the vast majority of Constitutional scholars that see it MY way--is why most of the informed..even those on your side--believe you are stupid. Not to mention your constant misuse of the term Stalinist...which, along with your insistence that someone who disagrees with you is a Communist--reveals your intellectual weakness and your inability to reason cogently. Without cut and paste you'd not be able to define what a Communist is, to save your life.
It's like a 3 year old trying to butt in while the grown-ups are talking. Cute for a moment..then just embarrassing.

 

[Uncensored2008]

The presence in the Constitution of the method to amend it is argument enough that the 'founders' were realists. They understood that they didn't know what the future might hold and that people would change.
Documents are only words. Words are symbols. Symbols are relative. Those who cannot understand that are handicapped.

Yes, they understood that times change, and gave us the tools to change the Constitution through the Amendment process. The concept that 9 unelected dictators may twist the constitution to fit any agenda they may hold is contrary to every aspect of the Constitution.

 

[sakinago]

You can have your opinion, but amendments and SCOTUS have the final word.

No the constitution is the final word. And the SCOTUS is subject to the constitution. If justice Kennedy retires and trump appoints a Ted Cruz type...I’m sure you’re going to be changing your tone about the scotus real fast.

Nope...but I bet you do! After all, if a future court were to turn back the clock, they'd have to use the same mechanisms that you now condemn. Of course--that would be OK, right?

Ok you missed that point. The role of SCOTUS is to strictly give a thumbs up or down on whether or not a particular law is constitutional. Not to preform as activists. Just because 5 out of 9 give a law a thumbs up or down, does not mean they did so under the confines of the constitution. After all they gave the thumbs up to interment camps for the Japanese...that doesn’t make the internment camps constitutional, it just means the SCOTUS failed to do their job and acted as activists. Need a more recent example? How about giving the thumbs up to DOMA. Then they turned around and said gay marriage is a states right issue...2 years later the same SCOTUS said states have no say in the matter...see what I mean by activism?

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

The problem is that the context has changed, and the actual words do not apply. A well-regulated militia is no longer necessary for the security of a free state. We have a secure free state, guaranteed by a permanent standing army. This something the Founding Father never anticipated.

Therefore, it would not be entirely specious for the USSC to declare the entire Second Amendment void, because it no longer applies.

Not that I expect that to happen anytime soon.

bullshit. times msy change its true. people do not.

leave it alone.

People do change, of course.

Do they? All the major empires throughout history go through all the same stages, patterns, trends, during their rise; go through all the same stages, patterns, trends, during their peak; and go through the same stages, pattern, trends, during their downfall. All within the same amount of time which is around 250 years, plus or minus 50. There have been 8 different holocausts throughout history. There are more slaves today than at any time during human history. A coup attempt of a major 1st world country just happened 2 years ago. And now that once democratic country is on its way to becoming a dictatorship (if it’s not already there).

The most popular holocaust happened in the 1940’s, a little over a decade later a psychologist proved that around 80 percent of Americans would shock someone to death just because a guy in a lab coat told them to do it. And just this year, a televised experiment was conducted through Netflix’s The Push, where 3 out of 4 normal decent people just like you and me would push a guy off a ledge to what they believe is his death.

This poem was written shortly after WW1, and then was followed by WW2.



The Gods of the Copybook Headings




AS I PASS through my incarnations in every age and race,
I make my proper prostrations to the Gods of the Market Place.
Peering through reverent fingers I watch them flourish and fall,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings, I notice, outlast them all.

We were living in trees when they met us. They showed us each in turn
That Water would certainly wet us, as Fire would certainly burn:
But we found them lacking in Uplift, Vision and Breadth of Mind,
So we left them to teach the Gorillas while we followed the March of Mankind.

We moved as the Spirit listed. They never altered their pace,
Being neither cloud nor wind-borne like the Gods of the Market Place,
But they always caught up with our progress, and presently word would come
That a tribe had been wiped off its icefield, or the lights had gone out in Rome.

With the Hopes that our World is built on they were utterly out of touch,
They denied that the Moon was Stilton; they denied she was even Dutch;
They denied that Wishes were Horses; they denied that a Pig had Wings;
So we worshipped the Gods of the Market Who promised these beautiful things.

When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know."

On the first Feminian Sandstones we were promised the Fuller Life
(Which started by loving our neighbour and ended by loving his wife)
Till our women had no more children and the men lost reason and faith,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "The Wages of Sin is Death."

In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all,
By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul;
But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "If you don't work you die."

Then the Gods of the Market tumbled, and their smooth-tongued wizards withdrew
And the hearts of the meanest were humbled and began to believe it was true
That All is not Gold that Glitters, and Two and Two make Four
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings limped up to explain it once more.

As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man
There are only four things certain since Social Progress began.
That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,
And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;

And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn,
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!

Nice poem.

All in All...not a bad, nor entirely inaccurate, portrayal of Western history. I would like to point out the exceptions, in a Global context, if I may...Egypt lasted millennia--as did China and India. The idea that cultures and countries have expiration dates is pretty old. Given all the new variables--it's too soon to prognosticate, IMO.

I'd like to think that we may outgrow the tribalism that gave birth to nationalism--but it's going to be a long slog..if it happens at all. Resistance is fierce...and will be for generations. The free dissemination of knowledge via the internet is a great first step---which is why many are invested in controlling the flow of said information.

A lot of blood and tears in our futures....a worldwide disaster could be the only way to unite humanity...but it's just as likely that the more fortunate will close up...and leave the rest of mankind to rot.

Many here--- would favor the 2nd option.

You’re confussing geographical names of areas with empires/governments. There have been A LOT of changes in areas you have referenced. Notice how Egypt isn’t ruled by Pharaohs anymore? Egypt was a Christian “country” for a long ass time. There’s multiple thousand page books on the dozens of different era’s in the region we call China. India I don’t know enough about their history, other than A the great went down there and conquered them too...but I’m sure they are not the exception to the entire timeline of rhyming change throughout human history.

You do me an injustice. I'm well aware of the area and cultures we speak of--the Egyptian Kingdoms--both Old and New..spanned millennia without significant change. You set the timeline at about 250 years..so that is what I used. You can search and find many cultures that lasted more than 250 years. Not that it matters..as a cautionary tale..your poem is both relevant and cogent...not that anyone will learn anything from it here.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

You can have your opinion, but amendments and SCOTUS have the final word.

No the constitution is the final word. And the SCOTUS is subject to the constitution. If justice Kennedy retires and trump appoints a Ted Cruz type...I’m sure you’re going to be changing your tone about the scotus real fast.

Nope...but I bet you do! After all, if a future court were to turn back the clock, they'd have to use the same mechanisms that you now condemn. Of course--that would be OK, right?

Ok you missed that point. The role of SCOTUS is to strictly give a thumbs up or down on whether or not a particular law is constitutional. Not to preform as activists. Just because 5 out of 9 give a law a thumbs up or down, does not mean they did so under the confines of the constitution. After all they gave the thumbs up to interment camps for the Japanese...that doesn’t make the internment camps constitutional, it just means the SCOTUS failed to do their job and acted as activists. Need a more recent example? How about giving the thumbs up to DOMA. Then they turned around and said gay marriage is a states right issue...2 years later the same SCOTUS said states have no say in the matter...see what I mean by activism?

Welll...we could go at this for a while...but the gist of it is..we disagree. There may well come a time when the court becomes revisionist--it wouldn't be the first time. But it is what it is. Power lies in what you call 'activism'--i doubt that any side is going to give it up...to revert to some rote rubber stamp.

Were the court to revert to Conservative control..they'd remain activist, IMO---just for the other side.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You can have your opinion, but amendments and SCOTUS have the final word.

No the constitution is the final word. And the SCOTUS is subject to the constitution. If justice Kennedy retires and trump appoints a Ted Cruz type...I’m sure you’re going to be changing your tone about the scotus real fast.

The constitution is not holy. SCOTUS interprets the writ. If Cruz became a Justice, he would toss originalism out the window first thing. It's all about Cruz.

 

[JakeStarkey]

So..you're saying that the FF's were Stalinists? Since they set it up that way....in our Constitution.

You really are quite stupid...please continue to demonstrate it to us all. Your fellow travelers on the right are no doubt cringing at what a poor case you are making.

My god but you're fucking stupid.

The founding fathers did not give the court the power to "interpret" the Constitution, you drooling moron. Chief Justice Marshall usurped the power under "Marbury v, Madison," you dolt.

The founding fathers, specifically Mason and Jefferson, strongly argued that the power to decide constitutionality lay with the elected representatives of the people in the house.

You are truly an uneducated fool spewing shit that you have no knowledge of.

The drooling madness above infects his post.

Nine of the colonies possessed the doctrine of judicial review.

What Marshall did was nothing new with Marbury.

It would be doltish to think that we will be leaving judicial review behind.

 

[sakinago]

You can have your opinion, but amendments and SCOTUS have the final word.

No the constitution is the final word. And the SCOTUS is subject to the constitution. If justice Kennedy retires and trump appoints a Ted Cruz type...I’m sure you’re going to be changing your tone about the scotus real fast.

Nope...but I bet you do! After all, if a future court were to turn back the clock, they'd have to use the same mechanisms that you now condemn. Of course--that would be OK, right?

Ok you missed that point. The role of SCOTUS is to strictly give a thumbs up or down on whether or not a particular law is constitutional. Not to preform as activists. Just because 5 out of 9 give a law a thumbs up or down, does not mean they did so under the confines of the constitution. After all they gave the thumbs up to interment camps for the Japanese...that doesn’t make the internment camps constitutional, it just means the SCOTUS failed to do their job and acted as activists. Need a more recent example? How about giving the thumbs up to DOMA. Then they turned around and said gay marriage is a states right issue...2 years later the same SCOTUS said states have no say in the matter...see what I mean by activism?

Welll...we could go at this for a while...but the gist of it is..we disagree. There may well come a time when the court becomes revisionist--if wouldn't be the first time. But it is what it is. Power lies in what you call 'activism'--i doubt that any side is going to give it up...to revert to some rote rubber stamp.

Were the court to revert to Conservative control..they'd remain activist, IMO---just for the other side.

Conservativism means the conservation of the constitution. Now whether or not someone is conservative in name only is a different issue. But I’d prefer to go with people who profess to believe in the constitution, then call them out as the frauds they are when they go against it. Vs just saying you’re tribal, I’m tribal, we’ll just go on being tribal...