A question about Columbine

[CaféAuLait]

So Columbine had an armed guard that was eating his lunch and guarding the 'smokers' pit. Not entrances, but a smokers pit far away from school entrances. A place the guard had to drive from to get to where he was needed.

He normally would have been in front of the cafeteria, his normal post but was not. His testimony was he was told by school officials to guard the smokers pit, which took him from his normal position. By the time he was able to drive to the correct side of the school, other police units were already arriving.


DEPUTIES_TEXT

 

[BallsBrunswick]

So Columbine had an armed guard that was eating his lunch and guarding the 'smokers' pit. Not entrances, but a smokers pit far away from school entrances. A place the guard had to drive from to get to where he was needed.

He normally would have been in front of the cafeteria, his normal post but was not. His testimony was he was told by school officials to guard the smokers pit, which took him from his normal position. By the time he was able to drive to the correct side of the school, other police units were already arriving.


DEPUTIES_TEXT

And why do we assume Bubba Ray here wouldn't have gotten his blown off with the rest of the victims?

 

[CaféAuLait]

So Columbine had an armed guard that was eating his lunch and guarding the 'smokers' pit. Not entrances, but a smokers pit far away from school entrances. A place the guard had to drive from to get to where he was needed.

He normally would have been in front of the cafeteria, his normal post but was not. His testimony was he was told by school officials to guard the smokers pit, which took him from his normal position. By the time he was able to drive to the correct side of the school, other police units were already arriving.


DEPUTIES_TEXT

And why do we assume Bubba Ray here wouldn't have gotten his blown off with the rest of the victims?

Bubba Ray, I assume you meant Deputy Neil Gardner?? He did NOT get his head blown off though, did he? He was able to arrive to the scene almost at the same time other officers were since he had to drive from the other side of the school via a street. Maybe he should have been at his post and not reassinged to an "outpost" by school officials.

 

[Politico]

Is it true, they had a armed guard there? If so, what the hell happened and why are there so many dead people?

NRA supporters, comments?

"The Department of Education has counted 98,817 public schools in the United States and an additional 33,366 private schools." The NRA wants armed guards at all these schools. If Columbine had one, doesnt that prove it wouldn't matter?

Schools are pretty big... and it takes time to get to the scene.

So a nut can get in, wipe out an entire class of kids before the armed guard is even on scene. Whats the fucking point of having a guard at every school then?

Dismissing the practicality of security is just an excuse to stay focused on the ban gun agenda.

 

[Doc91678]

Is it true, they had a armed guard there? If so, what the hell happened and why are there so many dead people?

NRA supporters, comments?

"The Department of Education has counted 98,817 public schools in the United States and an additional 33,366 private schools." The NRA wants armed guards at all these schools. If Columbine had one, doesnt that prove it wouldn't matter?

Not a NRA member or supporter or detractor for that matter anyway from what I have found out there was a armed deputy a Columbine who called for backup exchanged fire with one of the shooters once before he called for the back up a second time with his back up and helped begin the evacuation of students before the SWAT team arrived. So if this is correct then his exchanging gunfire with the shooters keep them for going after the students and the evacuating of the students ahead of SWAT arrival probably saved lives did this stop the attack no but it does seem like it keep it from being even worse than it was.

I'm retired, had Military, some police training and would gladly volunteer to guard school children. I'm sure there are others out there that would do the same. Heck, I'd even pay for my update training courses.

 

[Lakhota]

In 1999, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold killed 15 people and wounded 23 more at Columbine High School. The destruction occurred despite the fact that there was an armed security officer at the school and another one nearby -- exactly what LaPierre argued on Friday was the answer to stopping "a bad guy with a gun."

Deputy Neil Gardner was a 15-year veteran of the Jefferson County, Colo., Sheriff’s Office assigned as the uniformed officer at Columbine. According to an account compiled by the police department, Gardner fired on Harris but was unsuccessful in stopping him:

More: Columbine High School Had Armed Guards During Massacre In 1999

 

[CaféAuLait]

In 1999, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold killed 15 people and wounded 23 more at Columbine High School. The destruction occurred despite the fact that there was an armed security officer at the school and another one nearby -- exactly what LaPierre argued on Friday was the answer to stopping "a bad guy with a gun."

Deputy Neil Gardner was a 15-year veteran of the Jefferson County, Colo., Sheriff’s Office assigned as the uniformed officer at Columbine. According to an account compiled by the police department, Gardner fired on Harris but was unsuccessful in stopping him:

More: Columbine High School Had Armed Guards During Massacre In 1999

The armed security guard was not in the school, he was tasked with guarding the smokers pit and had to drive onto a road to get to the school and the other security guard was UNarmed.

DEPUTIES_TEXT

They were far enough away that they arrived about the same time as the police.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Is it true, they had a armed guard there? If so, what the hell happened and why are there so many dead people?

NRA supporters, comments?

"The Department of Education has counted 98,817 public schools in the United States and an additional 33,366 private schools." The NRA wants armed guards at all these schools. If Columbine had one, doesnt that prove it wouldn't matter?

Schools are pretty big... and it takes time to get to the scene.

So a nut can get in, wipe out an entire class of kids before the armed guard is even on scene. Whats the fucking point of having a guard at every school then?

That is what the NRA wants. Oh and who pays for these guards. I wonder what a right leanining person would say if he heard his taxes were being raised to pay for guards like that one at columbine.

And you think police are any better after you dial 911?

 

[Noomi]

Is it true, they had a armed guard there? If so, what the hell happened and why are there so many dead people?

NRA supporters, comments?

"The Department of Education has counted 98,817 public schools in the United States and an additional 33,366 private schools." The NRA wants armed guards at all these schools. If Columbine had one, doesnt that prove it wouldn't matter?

On April 20, 1999, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold killed 12 students and one teacher at Columbine. On the scene that day was Neil Gardner, an armed sheriff’s deputy who had been policing the school for almost two years.

Columbine-armed guard: Colorado shooting shows that NRA's Shield program likely won't work.

I don't understand why so many people are saying that if someone had a gun at Sandy Hook, they would have shot Lanza. Columbine had an armed deputy, and he wasn't able to shoot the two teenagers.
What makes them think the situation would be different any other time?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Is it true, they had a armed guard there? If so, what the hell happened and why are there so many dead people?

NRA supporters, comments?

"The Department of Education has counted 98,817 public schools in the United States and an additional 33,366 private schools." The NRA wants armed guards at all these schools. If Columbine had one, doesnt that prove it wouldn't matter?

On April 20, 1999, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold killed 12 students and one teacher at Columbine. On the scene that day was Neil Gardner, an armed sheriff’s deputy who had been policing the school for almost two years.

Columbine-armed guard: Colorado shooting shows that NRA's Shield program likely won't work.

I don't understand why so many people are saying that if someone had a gun at Sandy Hook, they would have shot Lanza. Columbine had an armed deputy, and he wasn't able to shoot the two teenagers.
What makes them think the situation would be different any other time?

I don't understand why you think gun bans work since Columbine happen when their was a GUN BAN

 

[CaféAuLait]

Is it true, they had a armed guard there? If so, what the hell happened and why are there so many dead people?

NRA supporters, comments?

"The Department of Education has counted 98,817 public schools in the United States and an additional 33,366 private schools." The NRA wants armed guards at all these schools. If Columbine had one, doesnt that prove it wouldn't matter?

On April 20, 1999, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold killed 12 students and one teacher at Columbine. On the scene that day was Neil Gardner, an armed sheriff’s deputy who had been policing the school for almost two years.

Columbine-armed guard: Colorado shooting shows that NRA's Shield program likely won't work.

I don't understand why so many people are saying that if someone had a gun at Sandy Hook, they would have shot Lanza. Columbine had an armed deputy, and he wasn't able to shoot the two teenagers.
What makes them think the situation would be different any other time?

Why was he not at his post? Why did the school have him guarding the smoking pit? If their plan had gone off as they intended ( they did not start shooting until the bombs did not go off correctly-- shooting was their secondary plan ) it is estimated hundreds would have died if the bombs had worked. Do we stop selling propane tanks and books on how to make explosives?

Only one of these bombs went off, only partially detonating. It was estimated that if any of the bombs placed in the cafeteria had detonated properly, the blast could have caused extensive structural damage to the school and would have resulted in hundreds of casualties.[19]

Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Noomi]

I don't know why he wasn't at his post. I wasn't there. My point was, simply, that there was an armed guard at Colombine, and he couldn't stop Eric and Dylan.

 

[CaféAuLait]

I don't know why he wasn't at his post. I wasn't there. My point was, simply, that there was an armed guard at Colombine, and he couldn't stop Eric and Dylan.

I linked to the article above, he was not at his post because school officials had him guarding the smokers pit, far enough away he had to DRIVE his car to where the shooting occured. Taking a road, Pierce Street to get to his post, his arrival was almost idential to that of police. One can say he was 'at the school" but he was a drive away, a few streets above the school itself:

The guard was up by the discolored blue area of the map, per school officials wishes.

DEPUTIES_TEXT

The guards normal post was directly in front of the cafeteria/library, where the carnage occured.

 

[CaféAuLait]

And I’m going to say it, probably get my head ripped off here but I don’t care. Since the guns are being blamed do we blame Harris and Klebold’s tormentors? The bullies who picked on them since age 8? I wonder if they carry guilt or not? Those who squirted ketchup all over them calling them faggots and the teachers who did nothing to stop it?

"People surrounded them in the commons and squirted ketchup packets all over them, while laughing at them, calling them faggots," Brown says. "That happened while teachers watched. They couldn't fight back. They wore the ketchup all day and went home covered with it."[29]

There was another incident where the teachers watched as ketchup covered tampons were thrown at them. They were called names and bullied for years. These stories come from classmates and teachers.

Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Papageorgio]

I don't know why he wasn't at his post. I wasn't there. My point was, simply, that there was an armed guard at Colombine, and he couldn't stop Eric and Dylan.

Why acknowledge the scum's names? I find it offensive that people remember the degenerates that killed but not the victims and their families. Another part of the issue of glorifying scum.

 

[Noomi]

And I’m going to say it, probably get my head ripped off here but I don’t care. Since the guns are being blamed do we blame Harris and Klebold’s tormentors? The bullies who picked on them since age 8? I wonder if they carry guilt or not? Those who squirted ketchup all over them calling them faggots and the teachers who did nothing to stop it?

"People surrounded them in the commons and squirted ketchup packets all over them, while laughing at them, calling them faggots," Brown says. "That happened while teachers watched. They couldn't fight back. They wore the ketchup all day and went home covered with it."[29]

There was another incident where the teachers watched as ketchup covered tampons were thrown at them. They were called names and bullied for years. These stories come from classmates and teachers.

Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Which is why I have never had any sympathy for those bullies. I think Dylan and Eric were at their wits end, and did the only thing they felt they could do - take action into their own hands. It doesn't make it right, but obviously the amount of bullying they had suffered came to a head, and they snapped.

Have you ever seen a movie called 'Home Room'? Better known as 'Heart Of America'?

 

[Noomi]

I don't know why he wasn't at his post. I wasn't there. My point was, simply, that there was an armed guard at Colombine, and he couldn't stop Eric and Dylan.

Why acknowledge the scum's names? I find it offensive that people remember the degenerates that killed but not the victims and their families. Another part of the issue of glorifying scum.

I was a victim of severe bullying myself, and took to taking a knife to school so I could feel like I had more control over my tormenters. Eric and Dylan suffered the same kind of bullying as I did. Its a little hard to forget.

 

[CaféAuLait]

And I’m going to say it, probably get my head ripped off here but I don’t care. Since the guns are being blamed do we blame Harris and Klebold’s tormentors? The bullies who picked on them since age 8? I wonder if they carry guilt or not? Those who squirted ketchup all over them calling them faggots and the teachers who did nothing to stop it?

"People surrounded them in the commons and squirted ketchup packets all over them, while laughing at them, calling them faggots," Brown says. "That happened while teachers watched. They couldn't fight back. They wore the ketchup all day and went home covered with it."[29]

There was another incident where the teachers watched as ketchup covered tampons were thrown at them. They were called names and bullied for years. These stories come from classmates and teachers.

Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Which is why I have never had any sympathy for those bullies. I think Dylan and Eric were at their wits end, and did the only thing they felt they could do - take action into their own hands. It doesn't make it right, but obviously the amount of bullying they had suffered came to a head, and they snapped.

Have you ever seen a movie called 'Home Room'? Better known as 'Heart Of America'?

No, I have not. What is it about?

 

[auditor0007]

Is it true, they had a armed guard there? If so, what the hell happened and why are there so many dead people?

NRA supporters, comments?

"The Department of Education has counted 98,817 public schools in the United States and an additional 33,366 private schools." The NRA wants armed guards at all these schools. If Columbine had one, doesnt that prove it wouldn't matter?

Yes, there were officers at the school. One of the problems you have is that these schools are pretty big. Once in the school, an armed guard may be on the other side of the school. In some schools, you would need up to five or more armed guards to cover all sectors of the school. Also, armed guards are in uniform, so if a gunmen gets into a school, he shoots the guard first, at least that would be the logical plan.

I do not like the idea of armed guards for that simple reason, plus the cost would be more than is affordable. If we want weapons in schools for defense of such situations, then we need to discuss if teachers and school administrators should have access to guns in the school. I think it is an idea worth talking about. That doesn't mean every teacher needs to be packing.

Here is something to think about, and this is solely from a cost standpoint. If every school had two armed guards, with bigger schools having more, the cost nationwide would run between $10 billion and $20 billion per year. Now just to play a numbers game, let's assume that 100 kids and teachers are killed in mass shootings each year. That number is way high, but it makes the math easy. Now let's assume that by having all these paid guards in our schools we could save every single one of those 100 lives, then the cost per life saved would run upward of $200 million per life.

I do not want to try to put a financial value on the life of anyone, but $200 million per life is a lot of money. This is why I believe arming some school administrators and/or teachers would not only be much more cost effective, but would probably give us better long term results.

 

[Noomi]

And I’m going to say it, probably get my head ripped off here but I don’t care. Since the guns are being blamed do we blame Harris and Klebold’s tormentors? The bullies who picked on them since age 8? I wonder if they carry guilt or not? Those who squirted ketchup all over them calling them faggots and the teachers who did nothing to stop it?




There was another incident where the teachers watched as ketchup covered tampons were thrown at them. They were called names and bullied for years. These stories come from classmates and teachers.

Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Which is why I have never had any sympathy for those bullies. I think Dylan and Eric were at their wits end, and did the only thing they felt they could do - take action into their own hands. It doesn't make it right, but obviously the amount of bullying they had suffered came to a head, and they snapped.

Have you ever seen a movie called 'Home Room'? Better known as 'Heart Of America'?

No, I have not. What is it about?

Its based on the Columbine shooting, but it involves a male and a female, both who are victims of extreme bullying. In one scene, the lad is attacked by a group of jocks after school and forced to eat dog excrement. The teachers do nothing about the bullying, and the two students become so angry and frustrated that they shoot up the school.

I found it hard to watch - and it really shows how much bullying in schools needs to be stamped out.
I highly recommend it, though - it stars mostly unknown actors, didn't win any awards, but its one of my favorite films.