A very serious thread about race relations

[MarcATL]

I just don't see Trump as Hitler. I just don't see these mouth-breathers as the SS. I just don't see millions of lives at stake.

Are there similarities to be found, here and there? Sure. On a minor, crackpot level. But that's as far as it goes.

I'm sorry, but I can't help but think that much of this is nothing more than partisan political opportunism.
.

The fact that you're so blind to even the possibility of something like that starting in Trump is what's scary.

Like jillian said, too many "good' people doing nothing. It's how Trump has and is able to maintain his stranglehold on the Republican party thus far.

#SMHGOP

 

[Aletheia4u]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

 

[Mac1958]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

I know some individuals, but as long as we have a media that magnifies differences instead of encouraging commonalities, race relations will only deteriorate.

When an authoritarian brand of identity politics replaced liberalism as the guiding principle of the left, the die was cast. Liberalism encourages a color-blind society while this new leftist authoritarianism is all about color.

Ignoring race and racism isn't going to magically make race relations better.

You guys really don't get it, do you?

Straw man "arguments" like this are a big part of the problem.

You're part of the problem. I wonder why you feel you have to misrepresent the views of others.
.

 

[Mac1958]

I just don't see Trump as Hitler. I just don't see these mouth-breathers as the SS. I just don't see millions of lives at stake.

Are there similarities to be found, here and there? Sure. On a minor, crackpot level. But that's as far as it goes.

I'm sorry, but I can't help but think that much of this is nothing more than partisan political opportunism.
.

The fact that you're so blind to even the possibility of something like that starting in Trump is what's scary.

Like jillian said, too many "good' people doing nothing. It's how Trump has and is able to maintain his stranglehold on the Republican party thus far.

#SMHGOP

And another straw man argument claiming I want to do nothing.

What I want is the opposite, just not attacking & screaming.

You're part of the problem. I wonder why you feel you have to misrepresent the views of others.
.

 

[Mac1958]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

I do! I'm so sick of hearing that we have yet to have the national discussion.

It's like this. Do the Jews and Germans need to rehash WW2? What's your advice to them? Get over it and move on.

One thing we have to deal with is whites who won't hire blacks. We can talk all we want if whites won't hire blacks we have a problem talking won't solve.

Anyways, let's stop talking about race. Where do you live? If it's a poverty place move. Do you take school seriously?

Are things really that bad? What are your personal experiences? Most of us only see race on the news and here. In our real lives things are normal.

Some have too much to be gained politically by keeping racial flames lit.

We're seeing it on this thread - they want this division for political advantage.
.

 

[Mac1958]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

Yeah, I am interested. I don't know how to implement something on a wide scale. I only know what I've tried to do:

1. Meet many different kinds of people, make friends, listen to their experiences.

2. Look for common ground over differences.

3. Be a good neighbor.

4. Assume the best in individuals until they prove you wrong.

5. Stop putting expectations on people based on their race, religion, sexuality....

Well in general, that would be my approach too.

Screaming & shouting & attacking & insulting are not going to do it. It's lazy and cowardly, and it only makes things worse.

We have to do the hard work of communicating. Of expecting people with whom we agree to be honest and look in the mirror, expecting our "side" hold up its end of the bargain too. We have to admit that both ends of this argument have to clean their own house before pointing the finger.

But look at this thread, for example. Are you seeing any of that?
.

 

[Mac1958]

When I talk to a Trump supporter about his (pick an adjective, I'm out) behaviors, their argument is that it's time someone stood up to "the establishment".

The blazingly obvious flaw in that thinking is the assumption that the way he's doing it is the only way.

I don't agree with them, and I don't agree that what we're seeing is the only way to heal racial divisions. I think we're all better than that.
.

I'm not quite sure how anyone who made half his appointments from Goldman Sachs and the other half for their contacts with Russia is fighting 'the establishment".

and one doesn't need to be a racist piece of garbage to oppose the so-called "establishment".

see if you find a single trumptard who stands up to the kkk and neonazi scum. good luck with that.

what is important now for people like you and people like me who don't agree on an awful lot but who agree that neo-Nazis are vile and should certainly shouldn't be enabled, to stand up and be as loud as possible.

I don't worry about making the bullies mad. I worry that we won't.

and I keep remembering "all it takes for evil to prevail is for decent [people] to do nothing".

I think it would be far smarter to completely ignore them.

And then have people who disagree, communicating, listening and slowly improving relations.

The idiots would be completely neutralized with no screaming, no attacking, no deaths.

Things are only getting worse with this approach.
.

Mac, I heard a guy on the news a few nights ago who has just written a book. His claim is that we can defeat racism by being MORE into our "identities," into being tribal, really building feeling of community around us and feeling of belonging in our own cultures, which defeats the reason for racist recruitment--needing a feeling of belonging, of a specific identity. If we have a strong sense of identity, of who we are, we will be more secure and less likely to be hostile or uncomfortable with other groups. Just being white isn't enough. It's way too global and ephemeral.
Wish I could remember where I heard him. It was an interesting and practical idea, actually. Some of the groups that try to "rehabilitate" racists claim the same underlying lack of a positive identity that sucks them in. The racist org gives broken folk a place to feel accepted and gives them a "tribe." Not so different from the lure of gang culture, actually.

That's not the ONLY factor or the only solution, but it was harmless and people have actually been talking about it for years--somehow recouping that feeling of belonging in something secure and positive.

Holy crap, that goes against all my impulses, but I'm open to anything at this point.

Let's not forget that it's Identity Politics, the division of people, that has so many (including myself) at odds with the Left.

Maybe the author might argue that it would depend on the way it's done. If it's done in a combative, divisive way, it simply can't work, because that's what got us here. If there's a way to do it in a civil, cooperate way, then maybe. Of course it takes two to tango...
.

The tribe is the community IMO. No white or black tribes necessary. Local tribes, neighborhood tribes, school group tribes, sports/extracurricular tribes, religious tribes and so on. All of these are well integrated where I live and it is working well.

There are some things predominantly one race or the other, churches for example. There are none that I know of that are exclusively one race. The other race is welcomed (even appreciated), but church music is an acquired taste and we don't seem to acquire other flavors of music so readily. There are whites that prefer black churches (mostly 20 to 30-somethings) and black people who prefer white churches (mostly 60+ and Catholics).

We identify with common interests and common ties more than skin color. We had a rocky time for a bit after Katrina, but the haters mostly moved back to NO, into BR or across the river. The rest seem to have acclimated well and are with the program.

Like politics, IMO, race relations is a local thing until you turn on the TV.

Here's the big picture problem from my perspective: (1) Race has (obviously) become politicized, and when that happens, all arguments get dumbed down to bumper-sticker level and no one wants to get in the weeds. We just want to keep stuff simple enough to fit on a sign. Well, that approach ain't gonna work here. (2) There are too many people who have a vested professional interest in keeping us angry and divided - I'm call them the Division Pimps - and their flocks are all too happy to dance to their tune.

Look at his thread. Accusations and insults, accusations and insults. This is what they want, and it's clearly working.
.

 

[ricechickie]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

Yeah, I am interested. I don't know how to implement something on a wide scale. I only know what I've tried to do:

1. Meet many different kinds of people, make friends, listen to their experiences.

2. Look for common ground over differences.

3. Be a good neighbor.

4. Assume the best in individuals until they prove you wrong.

5. Stop putting expectations on people based on their race, religion, sexuality....

Well in general, that would be my approach too.

Screaming & shouting & attacking & insulting are not going to do it. It's lazy and cowardly, and it only makes things worse.

We have to do the hard work of communicating. Of expecting people with whom we agree to be honest and look in the mirror, expecting our "side" hold up its end of the bargain too. We have to admit that both ends of this argument have to clean their own house before pointing the finger.

But look at this thread, for example. Are you seeing any of that?
.

Oh, I don't know. This is more civil than the dreck that usually ends up in the Race forum.....

 

[Mac1958]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

I know people talk about it, but "top priority"? No. There are a lot bigger problems in the world besides trying to legislate stupid people (AKA racist dimwits).

Scientifically, it would be interesting to know why some people feel skin tone is such a big deal. Most of our differences are cultural, not genetic. Genetically, we're 99.5-99.9% alike. Skin tone, eye and hair color are simply superficial differences. Culturally, we can be as different as night and day. Consider the "Death Culture" of the Palestinians versus the culture of those who are willing to die rather than harm another person?

My guess is that humans are tribal in nature and feel more comfortable when they belong to a group.

So as it pertains to politics, we "pick" a "side" and run with it, spinning & deflecting & attacking for our "side" because we want to belong.

I know that sounds simplistic, but sometimes the simple answer is the right one.
.

 

[Mac1958]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

Yeah, I am interested. I don't know how to implement something on a wide scale. I only know what I've tried to do:

1. Meet many different kinds of people, make friends, listen to their experiences.

2. Look for common ground over differences.

3. Be a good neighbor.

4. Assume the best in individuals until they prove you wrong.

5. Stop putting expectations on people based on their race, religion, sexuality....

Well in general, that would be my approach too.

Screaming & shouting & attacking & insulting are not going to do it. It's lazy and cowardly, and it only makes things worse.

We have to do the hard work of communicating. Of expecting people with whom we agree to be honest and look in the mirror, expecting our "side" hold up its end of the bargain too. We have to admit that both ends of this argument have to clean their own house before pointing the finger.

But look at this thread, for example. Are you seeing any of that?
.

Oh, I don't know. This is more civil than the dreck that usually ends up in the Race forum.....

This thread seems pretty representative of the national "conversation" (ha) to me, you don't think so?
.

 

[Correll]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

I know some individuals, but as long as we have a media that magnifies differences instead of encouraging commonalities, race relations will only deteriorate.

When an authoritarian brand of identity politics replaced liberalism as the guiding principle of the left, the die was cast. Liberalism encourages a color-blind society while this new leftist authoritarianism is all about color.

Ignoring race and racism isn't going to magically make race relations better.

You guys really don't get it, do you?

They seem oblivious to complaints from people that have claims...

I'm guessing that they haven't ever spent much time around black people, and so from their perspective, twenty years ago when no one was talking about racism and police brutality on a national stage, everything was just fine. It wasn't until the black people started complaining that "race relations" went bad.

If only those black folks would stop complaining about the systemic racism that they've been facing their entire lives, everything would be fine.

I remember twenty years ago. If you think that no one was talking about racism, you are either young and misinformed or old and very, very forgetful.

 

[Mac1958]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

I know some individuals, but as long as we have a media that magnifies differences instead of encouraging commonalities, race relations will only deteriorate.

When an authoritarian brand of identity politics replaced liberalism as the guiding principle of the left, the die was cast. Liberalism encourages a color-blind society while this new leftist authoritarianism is all about color.

It may be that there is a desire for improved race relations under the surface for some, I just don't see it.

I don't see a connection between these behaviors and anything that could be construed as constructive.
.

Maybe when people stop broad brushing "the other"....there will be improvement. When we realize we can sit down, share a meal, have a conversation about our kids...and realize we're not so different after all. It comes down to basic respect for each other.

I heard this guy on Ted Talks I think....really impressive....
A black man's quixotic quest to quell the racism of the KKK, one robe at a time

That's it. That's my argument. Communication.

Whether it's business or personal relationships or politics or race, once communication breaks down, it's over.

You go to the doctor and refuse to tell him what's wrong. He checks you out and refuses to tell you what he's found. No communication. What's the result?

There is none now, and here we are.
.

 

[Correll]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

I know some individuals, but as long as we have a media that magnifies differences instead of encouraging commonalities, race relations will only deteriorate.

When an authoritarian brand of identity politics replaced liberalism as the guiding principle of the left, the die was cast. Liberalism encourages a color-blind society while this new leftist authoritarianism is all about color.

Ignoring race and racism isn't going to magically make race relations better.

You guys really don't get it, do you?

"You guys"? I am an individual who thinks as an individual, and expresses my opinions as an individual.

I realize that is an alien concept to you, but you should try it some time. .

...and yet, you parrot the same exact same talking points as thousands of other old white men who consider themselves to be "above" racism, but think that everything was just fine back before black people started whining about how much it sucks for them.

You're not a unique snowflake. I've heard your arguments before - in fact, I've read them in history books.

That a lot of people have reached the same conclusion, doesn't make it wrong.


And calling himself an individual is not the same as being a snowflake. That was unfair.

 

[Correll]

I know some individuals, but as long as we have a media that magnifies differences instead of encouraging commonalities, race relations will only deteriorate.

When an authoritarian brand of identity politics replaced liberalism as the guiding principle of the left, the die was cast. Liberalism encourages a color-blind society while this new leftist authoritarianism is all about color.

Ignoring race and racism isn't going to magically make race relations better.

You guys really don't get it, do you?

"You guys"? I am an individual who thinks as an individual, and expresses my opinions as an individual.

I realize that is an alien concept to you, but you should try it some time. .

...and yet, you parrot the same exact same talking points as thousands of other old white men who consider themselves to be "above" racism, but think that everything was just fine back before black people started whining about how much it sucks for them.

You're not a unique snowflake. I've heard your arguments before - in fact, I've read them in history books.

I doubt that you have read ANY history books. You are just a simpleton forever stuck in the acting-out phase in your life.

Blah, blah blah. You've already proven your ability to get flustered and start lashing out with insults. We're all so impressed.

I'm open to the possibility that my conclusions are false. But you haven't yet given me any reason to believe that they are.

Your mis-characterization of his position was pretty insulting and quite rude.

 

[Correll]

I think it would be far smarter to completely ignore them.

And then have people who disagree, communicating, listening and slowly improving relations.

The idiots would be completely neutralized with no screaming, no attacking, no deaths.

Things are only getting worse with this approach.
.

Mac, I heard a guy on the news a few nights ago who has just written a book. His claim is that we can defeat racism by being MORE into our "identities," into being tribal, really building feeling of community around us and feeling of belonging in our own cultures, which defeats the reason for racist recruitment--needing a feeling of belonging, of a specific identity. If we have a strong sense of identity, of who we are, we will be more secure and less likely to be hostile or uncomfortable with other groups. Just being white isn't enough. It's way too global and ephemeral.
Wish I could remember where I heard him. It was an interesting and practical idea, actually. Some of the groups that try to "rehabilitate" racists claim the same underlying lack of a positive identity that sucks them in. The racist org gives broken folk a place to feel accepted and gives them a "tribe." Not so different from the lure of gang culture, actually.

That's not the ONLY factor or the only solution, but it was harmless and people have actually been talking about it for years--somehow recouping that feeling of belonging in something secure and positive.

Holy crap, that goes against all my impulses, but I'm open to anything at this point.

Let's not forget that it's Identity Politics, the division of people, that has so many (including myself) at odds with the Left.

Maybe the author might argue that it would depend on the way it's done. If it's done in a combative, divisive way, it simply can't work, because that's what got us here. If there's a way to do it in a civil, cooperate way, then maybe. Of course it takes two to tango...
.

Step one would debunking the idea that it is taboo to even talk about whites as a group, with a culture and interests of their own.

Otherwise, it just degenerates into the same old same old.

Yes, agreed, but there should be a Step One for each side of this argument. That's how effective communication works. For example, Step One could be (a) to reject any notion that criticism of blacks is racist on its face, AND (b) an admission that old fashioned, ignorant, bigoted racism does indeed still exist and must be culturally eradicated.

Those are the biggest impediments I see in this, among others.
.

Criticism of black individuals isn't racist. Criticism of the black community might not be meant as racist, but it does not help anyone. If someone identifies with a group, and that group is criticized en masse, they are going to be defensive.

As a woman, if I hear, "Women have a real problem with......" I am not going to take it kindly.

Works (or should I say, doesn't work) for political affiliation as well.

So we can't take about problems in the black community.

That ensures that they are NEVER ADDRESSED.


We keep pretending that all the issues are from outside the community, ie white racism, and ignore that all our efforts don't stop the suffering and dying.


Because we are ignoring the real problems. Because it is politically incorrect to discuss them.

 

[Bonzi]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

Someone famous? Not currently that I know of.
As for me, I think people are best left to be with their own kind most of the time, but, be able to interact and deal with others in a civilized and mature way. I just think people are happier and more content when they are with others like them. Not just in color or culture either....

 

[Divine Wind]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

I know people talk about it, but "top priority"? No. There are a lot bigger problems in the world besides trying to legislate stupid people (AKA racist dimwits).

Scientifically, it would be interesting to know why some people feel skin tone is such a big deal. Most of our differences are cultural, not genetic. Genetically, we're 99.5-99.9% alike. Skin tone, eye and hair color are simply superficial differences. Culturally, we can be as different as night and day. Consider the "Death Culture" of the Palestinians versus the culture of those who are willing to die rather than harm another person?

My guess is that humans are tribal in nature and feel more comfortable when they belong to a group.

So as it pertains to politics, we "pick" a "side" and run with it, spinning & deflecting & attacking for our "side" because we want to belong.

I know that sounds simplistic, but sometimes the simple answer is the right one.
.

Agreed on "tribal nature". As Desmond Morris wrote in his famous book, We're still just "naked apes" at our most basic.

While you are certainly correct about some people picking sides for a sense of belonging, the one's we're most familiar here are on the fringe; ardent partisans who put their backs to the wall and call anyone who opposes them names or their enemy. Forums are a safe place for them because if they did this IRL, they'd get their asses kicked on a regular basis.

 

[Correll]

Human race = important
White race, black race, etc., = distraction.

It may take an Alien invasion for us to realize we're all in this together.....

People will only "realize" that we're all in this together until people start treating other people like we're all in this together.

Like dismissing their views as "older white men"?

 

[Mac1958]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

I know people talk about it, but "top priority"? No. There are a lot bigger problems in the world besides trying to legislate stupid people (AKA racist dimwits).

Scientifically, it would be interesting to know why some people feel skin tone is such a big deal. Most of our differences are cultural, not genetic. Genetically, we're 99.5-99.9% alike. Skin tone, eye and hair color are simply superficial differences. Culturally, we can be as different as night and day. Consider the "Death Culture" of the Palestinians versus the culture of those who are willing to die rather than harm another person?

My guess is that humans are tribal in nature and feel more comfortable when they belong to a group.

So as it pertains to politics, we "pick" a "side" and run with it, spinning & deflecting & attacking for our "side" because we want to belong.

I know that sounds simplistic, but sometimes the simple answer is the right one.
.

Agreed on "tribal nature". As Desmond Morris wrote in his famous book, We're still just "naked apes" at our most basic.

While you are certainly correct about some people picking sides for a sense of belonging, the one's we're most familiar here are on the fringe; ardent partisans who put their backs to the wall and call anyone who opposes them names or their enemy. Forums are a safe place for them because if they did this IRL, they'd get their asses kicked on a regular basis.

What's worrying me is that - at least anecdotally - I'm seeing more and more of this behavior in "real life". People who, in regular conversation, are ready to launch off into some canned tirade against the other "side". With real anger.

I hope what I'm detecting is incorrect, that's for damn sure.
.

 

[Divine Wind]

Mac, I heard a guy on the news a few nights ago who has just written a book. His claim is that we can defeat racism by being MORE into our "identities," into being tribal, really building feeling of community around us and feeling of belonging in our own cultures, which defeats the reason for racist recruitment--needing a feeling of belonging, of a specific identity. If we have a strong sense of identity, of who we are, we will be more secure and less likely to be hostile or uncomfortable with other groups. Just being white isn't enough. It's way too global and ephemeral.
Wish I could remember where I heard him. It was an interesting and practical idea, actually. Some of the groups that try to "rehabilitate" racists claim the same underlying lack of a positive identity that sucks them in. The racist org gives broken folk a place to feel accepted and gives them a "tribe." Not so different from the lure of gang culture, actually.

That's not the ONLY factor or the only solution, but it was harmless and people have actually been talking about it for years--somehow recouping that feeling of belonging in something secure and positive.

Holy crap, that goes against all my impulses, but I'm open to anything at this point.

Let's not forget that it's Identity Politics, the division of people, that has so many (including myself) at odds with the Left.

Maybe the author might argue that it would depend on the way it's done. If it's done in a combative, divisive way, it simply can't work, because that's what got us here. If there's a way to do it in a civil, cooperate way, then maybe. Of course it takes two to tango...
.

Step one would debunking the idea that it is taboo to even talk about whites as a group, with a culture and interests of their own.

Otherwise, it just degenerates into the same old same old.

Yes, agreed, but there should be a Step One for each side of this argument. That's how effective communication works. For example, Step One could be (a) to reject any notion that criticism of blacks is racist on its face, AND (b) an admission that old fashioned, ignorant, bigoted racism does indeed still exist and must be culturally eradicated.

Those are the biggest impediments I see in this, among others.
.

Criticism of black individuals isn't racist. Criticism of the black community might not be meant as racist, but it does not help anyone. If someone identifies with a group, and that group is criticized en masse, they are going to be defensive.

As a woman, if I hear, "Women have a real problem with......" I am not going to take it kindly.

Works (or should I say, doesn't work) for political affiliation as well.

So we can't take about problems in the black community.

That ensures that they are NEVER ADDRESSED.


We keep pretending that all the issues are from outside the community, ie white racism, and ignore that all our efforts don't stop the suffering and dying.


Because we are ignoring the real problems. Because it is politically incorrect to discuss them.

Agreed here. Most of our "race" problems are really cultural problems. Regardless of how those differences came to be, they need to be addressed or they will never be resolved. If a college has a problem with underage drinking or date rape, they address it. Some don't like it being addressed, but most will benefit from it being addressed. Same with "race" relations.

One solution that is not working is just throwing money at it. How can a person have self-respect if they know their life is being a mooch? A sponge? A parasite on society? Better if they are given the opportunities to prove their value as human beings and go home respecting themselves.