A very serious thread about race relations

[Tresha91203]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

I live in an area with very little tension. People are friendly and welcoming, black or white or brown or orange. A lot of people don't lock doors and leave their car running while they pop into the store. Any color can generally walk into any establishment, even predominantly of another race, and not be ostracized. We just don't have that crap here. I don't know how long it will last. An hour in either direction puts you in a metro area with much more tension.

Something in the cities does it.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Human race = important
White race, black race, etc., = distraction.

It may take an Alien invasion for us to realize we're all in this together.....

People will only "realize" that we're all in this together until people start treating other people like we're all in this together.

MmmmHmmm

Now let's all sing Kumbya!!

(and pray for an alien invasion!)

Yeah, it'll never happen. That's the point.

How do you eat an elephant?

One bite at a time brother, one bite at a time.

I have no high hopes for humanity as a whole.

But I still do the best that I personally can, in my real life.

 

[Tresha91203]

I understand what you're saying. but being quiet in the face of bigotry isn't what's necessary.

and standing up to bigots isn't exacerbating the problem.

the right's inexplicable defense of the bigots is what is exacerbating the problem. if everyone stood up to the scum, they'd crawl back into their holes......which is where they lived until a political candidate/now president enabled them.

the difference is, in the old days, the orange one would have been marginalized like George Wallace was. apparently after eight years of a black president, the hate-filled pond scum feel enabled by this guy. and don't say no, there is a reason david duke a) reminded trump who made him president' and b) thanked him.

When I talk to a Trump supporter about his (pick an adjective, I'm out) behaviors, their argument is that it's time someone stood up to "the establishment".

The blazingly obvious flaw in that thinking is the assumption that the way he's doing it is the only way.

I don't agree with them, and I don't agree that what we're seeing is the only way to heal racial divisions. I think we're all better than that.
.

I'm not quite sure how anyone who made half his appointments from Goldman Sachs and the other half for their contacts with Russia is fighting 'the establishment".

and one doesn't need to be a racist piece of garbage to oppose the so-called "establishment".

see if you find a single trumptard who stands up to the kkk and neonazi scum. good luck with that.

what is important now for people like you and people like me who don't agree on an awful lot but who agree that neo-Nazis are vile and should certainly shouldn't be enabled, to stand up and be as loud as possible.

I don't worry about making the bullies mad. I worry that we won't.

and I keep remembering "all it takes for evil to prevail is for decent [people] to do nothing".

I think it would be far smarter to completely ignore them.

And then have people who disagree, communicating, listening and slowly improving relations.

The idiots would be completely neutralized with no screaming, no attacking, no deaths.

Things are only getting worse with this approach.
.

Mac, I heard a guy on the news a few nights ago who has just written a book. His claim is that we can defeat racism by being MORE into our "identities," into being tribal, really building feeling of community around us and feeling of belonging in our own cultures, which defeats the reason for racist recruitment--needing a feeling of belonging, of a specific identity. If we have a strong sense of identity, of who we are, we will be more secure and less likely to be hostile or uncomfortable with other groups. Just being white isn't enough. It's way too global and ephemeral.
Wish I could remember where I heard him. It was an interesting and practical idea, actually. Some of the groups that try to "rehabilitate" racists claim the same underlying lack of a positive identity that sucks them in. The racist org gives broken folk a place to feel accepted and gives them a "tribe." Not so different from the lure of gang culture, actually.

That's not the ONLY factor or the only solution, but it was harmless and people have actually been talking about it for years--somehow recouping that feeling of belonging in something secure and positive.

Holy crap, that goes against all my impulses, but I'm open to anything at this point.

Let's not forget that it's Identity Politics, the division of people, that has so many (including myself) at odds with the Left.

Maybe the author might argue that it would depend on the way it's done. If it's done in a combative, divisive way, it simply can't work, because that's what got us here. If there's a way to do it in a civil, cooperate way, then maybe. Of course it takes two to tango...
.

The tribe is the community IMO. No white or black tribes necessary. Local tribes, neighborhood tribes, school group tribes, sports/extracurricular tribes, religious tribes and so on. All of these are well integrated where I live and it is working well.

There are some things predominantly one race or the other, churches for example. There are none that I know of that are exclusively one race. The other race is welcomed (even appreciated), but church music is an acquired taste and we don't seem to acquire other flavors of music so readily. There are whites that prefer black churches (mostly 20 to 30-somethings) and black people who prefer white churches (mostly 60+ and Catholics).

We identify with common interests and common ties more than skin color. We had a rocky time for a bit after Katrina, but the haters mostly moved back to NO, into BR or across the river. The rest seem to have acclimated well and are with the program.

Like politics, IMO, race relations is a local thing until you turn on the TV.

 

[Markle]

...and yet, you parrot the same exact same talking points as thousands of other old white men who consider themselves to be "above" racism, but think that everything was just fine back before black people started whining about how much it sucks for them.

I'm an old white man. White as the driven snow. All four grandparents emigrated from Norway or Democrat after the turn of the last century. I was born on an Army post during WW-II. My Mom moved back to Chicago after my Ol' Man shipped out to France in July 1944. He joined us in Chicago after 2 years in a military hospital in Texas. We lived in my grandparent's apartment building until we moved to Miami when I was nine. One of my three best friends was Asian, one was half Native American and one was like me. I never met a black person. I had seen black men, they delivered the coal for the apartments and they picked up the garbage in the alley.

I met my first black person when we arrived in Miami. That would have been our maid. In Miami, Homestead actually, I attended all white schools. Public water fountains were indeed labeled and our doctor had two waiting rooms. One labeled White and the other Colored. My senior year in high school was immediately after schools were integrated. We were a brand new school and it had been all white since the day it opened. We had a student body of about 1,500 students. That last year we were considered to be integrated. We had two black students.

Roll the calendar forward until 1974 when I went into real estate profession. One of my first sales was to a mixed couple, very rare at the time, who had been referred to me by a Lt. Com. whom I had sold a house to the previous year. He was head of the ROTC at FA&M University. In the 1980's since no one else wanted to teach such a complex issue with so many difficult questions, I began teaching Fair Housing for our local assn's orientation. I went on to get my instructors license and I auditioned for and began teaching 3 and 4 hour Fair Housing courses for our state association. When it came out, I auditioned for and began teaching a Diversity Course for our National Association traveling all across the U.S. and all over Florida. I was one of the best in Florida and the nation.

Like all other stereotypes, I don't fit the mold. Go figure.

 

[Markle]

You don't interact with black people very often, do you?

Not now, I'm retired. Prior to that, daily.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I know some individuals, but as long as we have a media that magnifies differences instead of encouraging commonalities, race relations will only deteriorate.

When an authoritarian brand of identity politics replaced liberalism as the guiding principle of the left, the die was cast. Liberalism encourages a color-blind society while this new leftist authoritarianism is all about color.

Ignoring race and racism isn't going to magically make race relations better.

You guys really don't get it, do you?

"You guys"? I am an individual who thinks as an individual, and expresses my opinions as an individual.

I realize that is an alien concept to you, but you should try it some time. .

...and yet, you parrot the same exact same talking points as thousands of other old white men who consider themselves to be "above" racism, but think that everything was just fine back before black people started whining about how much it sucks for them.

You're not a unique snowflake. I've heard your arguments before - in fact, I've read them in history books.

I doubt that you have read ANY history books. You are just a simpleton forever stuck in the acting-out phase in your life.

Blah, blah blah. You've already proven your ability to get flustered and start lashing out with insults. We're all so impressed.

I'm open to the possibility that my conclusions are false. But you haven't yet given me any reason to believe that they are.

You have not expressed any conclusions. All you have proven is that you are racist, ageist and misandrist with your dismissive attitudes towards "old, white men".

 

[Dogmaphobe]

...and yet, you parrot the same exact same talking points as thousands of other old white men who consider themselves to be "above" racism, but think that everything was just fine back before black people started whining about how much it sucks for them.

I'm an old white man. White as the driven snow. All four grandparents emigrated from Norway or Democrat after the turn of the last century. I was born on an Army post during WW-II. My Mom moved back to Chicago after my Ol' Man shipped out to France in July 1944. He joined us in Chicago after 2 years in a military hospital in Texas. We lived in my grandparent's apartment building until we moved to Miami when I was nine. One of my three best friends was Asian, one was half Native American and one was like me. I never met a black person. I had seen black men, they delivered the coal for the apartments and they picked up the garbage in the alley.

I met my first black person when we arrived in Miami. That would have been our maid. In Miami, Homestead actually, I attended all white schools. Public water fountains were indeed labeled and our doctor had two waiting rooms. One labeled White and the other Colored. My senior year in high school was immediately after schools were integrated. We were a brand new school and it had been all white since the day it opened. We had a student body of about 1,500 students. That last year we were considered to be integrated. We had two black students.

Roll the calendar forward until 1974 when I went into real estate profession. One of my first sales was to a mixed couple, very rare at the time, who had been referred to me by a Lt. Com. whom I had sold a house to the previous year. He was head of the ROTC at FA&M University. In the 1980's since no one else wanted to teach such a complex issue with so many difficult questions, I began teaching Fair Housing for our local assn's orientation. I went on to get my instructors license and I auditioned for and began teaching 3 and 4 hour Fair Housing courses for our state association. When it came out, I auditioned for and began teaching a Diversity Course for our National Association traveling all across the U.S. and all over Florida. I was one of the best in Florida and the nation.

Like all other stereotypes, I don't fit the mold. Go figure.

thedoctorisin is extremely simply-minded, so he will MAKE you fit the mold.

That is all he knows.

 

[Divine Wind]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

I know people talk about it, but "top priority"? No. There are a lot bigger problems in the world besides trying to legislate stupid people (AKA racist dimwits).

Scientifically, it would be interesting to know why some people feel skin tone is such a big deal. Most of our differences are cultural, not genetic. Genetically, we're 99.5-99.9% alike. Skin tone, eye and hair color are simply superficial differences. Culturally, we can be as different as night and day. Consider the "Death Culture" of the Palestinians versus the culture of those who are willing to die rather than harm another person?

 

[Tresha91203]

I do not think many black people are looking for improved race relations. I think we are simply looking to be RESPECTED, which blacks have never been in this country. From respect comes improved relationships.

I don't mean to make a trite response. But, respect has to be earned.

And it is earned by proving we deserve it. Showing we've worked hard to educate ourselves, maintaining and doing a good job, showing that we are honest and trustworthy, treating others with respect, and so on. There is no magic to it.

Except, that simply "demanding" respect, or acting tough, is stupid; it doesn't work. And it shouldn't. Again: respect has to be earned. Then, respect will be given, and it will be genuine.

The "respect" random people or casual acquaintances want is usually "common courtesy" or "manners." I don't think we are talking about the kind of respect that is earned. We are talking about how you speak to someone, your tone and your words and your body language. I'm sure there are exceptions, but The Golden Rule has served me well.

If I need to rant or vent, that's what political message boards are for lol.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

...and yet, you parrot the same exact same talking points as thousands of other old white men who consider themselves to be "above" racism, but think that everything was just fine back before black people started whining about how much it sucks for them.

I'm an old white man. White as the driven snow. All four grandparents emigrated from Norway or Democrat after the turn of the last century. I was born on an Army post during WW-II. My Mom moved back to Chicago after my Ol' Man shipped out to France in July 1944. He joined us in Chicago after 2 years in a military hospital in Texas. We lived in my grandparent's apartment building until we moved to Miami when I was nine. One of my three best friends was Asian, one was half Native American and one was like me. I never met a black person. I had seen black men, they delivered the coal for the apartments and they picked up the garbage in the alley.

I met my first black person when we arrived in Miami. That would have been our maid. In Miami, Homestead actually, I attended all white schools. Public water fountains were indeed labeled and our doctor had two waiting rooms. One labeled White and the other Colored. My senior year in high school was immediately after schools were integrated. We were a brand new school and it had been all white since the day it opened. We had a student body of about 1,500 students. That last year we were considered to be integrated. We had two black students.

Roll the calendar forward until 1974 when I went into real estate profession. One of my first sales was to a mixed couple, very rare at the time, who had been referred to me by a Lt. Com. whom I had sold a house to the previous year. He was head of the ROTC at FA&M University. In the 1980's since no one else wanted to teach such a complex issue with so many difficult questions, I began teaching Fair Housing for our local assn's orientation. I went on to get my instructors license and I auditioned for and began teaching 3 and 4 hour Fair Housing courses for our state association. When it came out, I auditioned for and began teaching a Diversity Course for our National Association traveling all across the U.S. and all over Florida. I was one of the best in Florida and the nation.

Like all other stereotypes, I don't fit the mold. Go figure.

That seems very nice. Do you want a cookie?

I didn't call you a racist, but thanks for the defense.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Ignoring race and racism isn't going to magically make race relations better.

You guys really don't get it, do you?

"You guys"? I am an individual who thinks as an individual, and expresses my opinions as an individual.

I realize that is an alien concept to you, but you should try it some time. .

...and yet, you parrot the same exact same talking points as thousands of other old white men who consider themselves to be "above" racism, but think that everything was just fine back before black people started whining about how much it sucks for them.

You're not a unique snowflake. I've heard your arguments before - in fact, I've read them in history books.

I doubt that you have read ANY history books. You are just a simpleton forever stuck in the acting-out phase in your life.

Blah, blah blah. You've already proven your ability to get flustered and start lashing out with insults. We're all so impressed.

I'm open to the possibility that my conclusions are false. But you haven't yet given me any reason to believe that they are.

You have not expressed any conclusions. All you have proven is that you are racist, ageist and misandrist with your dismissive attitudes towards "old, white men".

You're not very good at this, are you?

My conclusion is that you're one of the people that I described previously. As for your asinine attempt to SJW me, some of my best friends are old white men.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

...and yet, you parrot the same exact same talking points as thousands of other old white men who consider themselves to be "above" racism, but think that everything was just fine back before black people started whining about how much it sucks for them.

I'm an old white man. White as the driven snow. All four grandparents emigrated from Norway or Democrat after the turn of the last century. I was born on an Army post during WW-II. My Mom moved back to Chicago after my Ol' Man shipped out to France in July 1944. He joined us in Chicago after 2 years in a military hospital in Texas. We lived in my grandparent's apartment building until we moved to Miami when I was nine. One of my three best friends was Asian, one was half Native American and one was like me. I never met a black person. I had seen black men, they delivered the coal for the apartments and they picked up the garbage in the alley.

I met my first black person when we arrived in Miami. That would have been our maid. In Miami, Homestead actually, I attended all white schools. Public water fountains were indeed labeled and our doctor had two waiting rooms. One labeled White and the other Colored. My senior year in high school was immediately after schools were integrated. We were a brand new school and it had been all white since the day it opened. We had a student body of about 1,500 students. That last year we were considered to be integrated. We had two black students.

Roll the calendar forward until 1974 when I went into real estate profession. One of my first sales was to a mixed couple, very rare at the time, who had been referred to me by a Lt. Com. whom I had sold a house to the previous year. He was head of the ROTC at FA&M University. In the 1980's since no one else wanted to teach such a complex issue with so many difficult questions, I began teaching Fair Housing for our local assn's orientation. I went on to get my instructors license and I auditioned for and began teaching 3 and 4 hour Fair Housing courses for our state association. When it came out, I auditioned for and began teaching a Diversity Course for our National Association traveling all across the U.S. and all over Florida. I was one of the best in Florida and the nation.

Like all other stereotypes, I don't fit the mold. Go figure.

thedoctorisin is extremely simply-minded, so he will MAKE you fit the mold.

That is all he knows.

Dogmaphobe has significant issues of self-worth, so he will TRY HIS BEST to desperately gather supporters amongst other posters, like a middle school bully in the playground.

 

[Divine Wind]

Human race = important
White race, black race, etc., = distraction.

It may take an Alien invasion for us to realize we're all in this together.....

People will only "realize" that we're all in this together until people start treating other people like we're all in this together.

MmmmHmmm

Now let's all sing Kumbya!!

(and pray for an alien invasion!)

Yeah, it'll never happen. That's the point.

How do you eat an elephant?

One bite at a time brother, one bite at a time.

I have no high hopes for humanity as a whole.

But I still do the best that I personally can, in my real life.

I have great hopes for humanity. Sure, we're still more fucked up than a 3-legged goat, but look at the progress we've made over the past 6,000 years of documented history. Yes, often it's 2 steps forward and 1 step back, but that's still a gain of 1 step.

Technologically, we've advanced greatly over the past two hundred years, but sociologically, we still need work. I believe tech will alleviate some of those problems.

When human beings compete for resources, they tend to become very protective of it from others, especially if those others are "different" some how. Find a way to create unlimited resources, and that competition ceases to exist.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

You don't interact with black people very often, do you?

Not now, I'm retired. Prior to that, daily.

When did you retire? Does it coincide with the time that you began to feel that race relations got "worse than the 60s"?

 

[Dogmaphobe]

...and yet, you parrot the same exact same talking points as thousands of other old white men who consider themselves to be "above" racism, but think that everything was just fine back before black people started whining about how much it sucks for them.

I'm an old white man. White as the driven snow. All four grandparents emigrated from Norway or Democrat after the turn of the last century. I was born on an Army post during WW-II. My Mom moved back to Chicago after my Ol' Man shipped out to France in July 1944. He joined us in Chicago after 2 years in a military hospital in Texas. We lived in my grandparent's apartment building until we moved to Miami when I was nine. One of my three best friends was Asian, one was half Native American and one was like me. I never met a black person. I had seen black men, they delivered the coal for the apartments and they picked up the garbage in the alley.

I met my first black person when we arrived in Miami. That would have been our maid. In Miami, Homestead actually, I attended all white schools. Public water fountains were indeed labeled and our doctor had two waiting rooms. One labeled White and the other Colored. My senior year in high school was immediately after schools were integrated. We were a brand new school and it had been all white since the day it opened. We had a student body of about 1,500 students. That last year we were considered to be integrated. We had two black students.

Roll the calendar forward until 1974 when I went into real estate profession. One of my first sales was to a mixed couple, very rare at the time, who had been referred to me by a Lt. Com. whom I had sold a house to the previous year. He was head of the ROTC at FA&M University. In the 1980's since no one else wanted to teach such a complex issue with so many difficult questions, I began teaching Fair Housing for our local assn's orientation. I went on to get my instructors license and I auditioned for and began teaching 3 and 4 hour Fair Housing courses for our state association. When it came out, I auditioned for and began teaching a Diversity Course for our National Association traveling all across the U.S. and all over Florida. I was one of the best in Florida and the nation.

Like all other stereotypes, I don't fit the mold. Go figure.

thedoctorisin is extremely simply-minded, so he will MAKE you fit the mold.

That is all he knows.

Dogmaphobe has significant issues of self-worth, so he will TRY HIS BEST to desperately gather supporters amongst other posters, like a middle school bully in the playground.

You really are projecting here, child. I am not the one talking about "you guys" .

I seem to recall that you tried to claim you went to Cal. Have you ever considered displaying the sort of intellect that makes that plausible?

 

[Dogmaphobe]

You're not very good at this, are you?

My conclusion is that you're one of the people that I described previously. As for your asinine attempt to SJW me, some of my best friends are old white men.

You sound just like the KKK members who proclaim "Some of my best friends are black".

You are very transparent and stupid.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

...and yet, you parrot the same exact same talking points as thousands of other old white men who consider themselves to be "above" racism, but think that everything was just fine back before black people started whining about how much it sucks for them.

I'm an old white man. White as the driven snow. All four grandparents emigrated from Norway or Democrat after the turn of the last century. I was born on an Army post during WW-II. My Mom moved back to Chicago after my Ol' Man shipped out to France in July 1944. He joined us in Chicago after 2 years in a military hospital in Texas. We lived in my grandparent's apartment building until we moved to Miami when I was nine. One of my three best friends was Asian, one was half Native American and one was like me. I never met a black person. I had seen black men, they delivered the coal for the apartments and they picked up the garbage in the alley.

I met my first black person when we arrived in Miami. That would have been our maid. In Miami, Homestead actually, I attended all white schools. Public water fountains were indeed labeled and our doctor had two waiting rooms. One labeled White and the other Colored. My senior year in high school was immediately after schools were integrated. We were a brand new school and it had been all white since the day it opened. We had a student body of about 1,500 students. That last year we were considered to be integrated. We had two black students.

Roll the calendar forward until 1974 when I went into real estate profession. One of my first sales was to a mixed couple, very rare at the time, who had been referred to me by a Lt. Com. whom I had sold a house to the previous year. He was head of the ROTC at FA&M University. In the 1980's since no one else wanted to teach such a complex issue with so many difficult questions, I began teaching Fair Housing for our local assn's orientation. I went on to get my instructors license and I auditioned for and began teaching 3 and 4 hour Fair Housing courses for our state association. When it came out, I auditioned for and began teaching a Diversity Course for our National Association traveling all across the U.S. and all over Florida. I was one of the best in Florida and the nation.

Like all other stereotypes, I don't fit the mold. Go figure.

thedoctorisin is extremely simply-minded, so he will MAKE you fit the mold.

That is all he knows.

Dogmaphobe has significant issues of self-worth, so he will TRY HIS BEST to desperately gather supporters amongst other posters, like a middle school bully in the playground.

You really are projecting here, child. I am not the one talking about "you guys" .

I seem to recall that you tried to claim you went to Cal. Have you ever considered displaying the sort of intellect that makes that plausible?

Have you considered that I couldn't possibly give less of a shit about what you find "plausible"?

I don't know what your first statement was supposed to mean, so I didn't respond to it. Feel free to elaborate.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

You're not very good at this, are you?

My conclusion is that you're one of the people that I described previously. As for your asinine attempt to SJW me, some of my best friends are old white men.

You sound just like the KKK members who proclaim "Some of my best friends are black".

You are very transparent and stupid.

It's a fucking joke, you witless moron. That's the point.

 

[Chuz Life]

This just really REALLY speaks to me.

Preach it, LIL Wayne!

 

[monkrules]

I do not think many black people are looking for improved race relations. I think we are simply looking to be RESPECTED, which blacks have never been in this country. From respect comes improved relationships.

I don't mean to make a trite response. But, respect has to be earned.

And it is earned by proving we deserve it. Showing we've worked hard to educate ourselves, maintaining and doing a good job, showing that we are honest and trustworthy, treating others with respect, and so on. There is no magic to it.

Except, that simply "demanding" respect, or acting tough, is stupid; it doesn't work. And it shouldn't. Again: respect has to be earned. Then, respect will be given, and it will be genuine.

The "respect" random people or casual acquaintances want is usually "common courtesy" or "manners." I don't think we are talking about the kind of respect that is earned. We are talking about how you speak to someone, your tone and your words and your body language. I'm sure there are exceptions, but The Golden Rule has served me well.

If I need to rant or vent, that's what political message boards are for lol.

I agree with everyting you've written. Of course people should treat other people with simple respect. In casual meetings, etc. That's just part of having decent manners and knowing how to conduct ourselves around others.

In my earlier post I was talking about the kind of serious respect that people often yearn for. That kind of respect has to be earned.

But you can't go around rioting and looting and expect anyone to respect you. It's not gonna happen. All that will accomplish is to convince decent people that they should move as far as possible from you.